Denied boarding -bevare if you hold a previus us visa

[Demonyte]

Coming into the United States on ESTA is fine by air but then they are leaving the country by Sea on NCL. Therefore, they will not be permitted entry into USA again after the cruise because per ESTA rules once your 90 days or the date you leave you have to wait another 90 days before coming back into the country on a new ESTA. That's why they recommend a tourist visa with multiple entries so that you can leave and come back.

I wish they informed you of this before you spent all that money but it's all clearly written on the state department website.

 

 

This is incorrect on so many levels.

 

First of all, ESTA is valid for two years - one does not need "a new ESTA" for each trip.

 

(I've used the same ESTA multiple times within it's validity.)

 

Secondly there is no limit on re-entering US with ESTA within the allowed 90 days (written on the stamp that is stamped on the passport on first entry of that trip).

 

(I've too re-entered US several times on the same trip - by sea - under ESTA.)

 

There is absolutely no need for getting any kind of visa if one is entitled to use either visa waiver program (green immugration forms) or ESTA.

 

Also relating to other previous posts - paper copy of ESTA being not needed assumes internet connection at the immigration checkpoint.

 

I've been inspected several times onboard in the middle of the sea and the CBP agents did not have any technical appliances there - it was all manual. If people didn't have their ESTA printout, they had to fill the "old style" Visa Waiver immigration forms then and there to be cleared to re-enter US.

 

So while at most entry points the printout isn't needed, cruising is one tiny exception where it pays to have it with you in order to make things easier.

[casofilia]

{Snipped}

 

Also relating to other previous posts - paper copy of ESTA being not needed assumes internet connection at the immigration checkpoint.

 

I've been inspected several times onboard in the middle of the sea and the CBP agents did not have any technical appliances there - it was all manual. If people didn't have their ESTA printout, they had to fill the "old style" Visa Waiver immigration forms then and there to be cleared to re-enter US.

 

So while at most entry points the printout isn't needed, cruising is one tiny exception where it pays to have it with you in order to make things easier.

 

In full agreement with all points I have snipped to.

[JohnIreland]

I believe that Chengkp75 nailed the issue pretty well.

 

Immigration at the airport knew that they were coming from outside of the country and that there was no immigration hold on them so they could get into the country.

 

 

Once at the cruise terminal, the cruise line, NCL, depends upon the documentation they are given, in this case the passports. If the passports did not have the documentation showing that they properly left the country after their student visas and if they did not have other paperwork showing that they had left, then by definition they did not have appropriate travel documentation.

 

The USA doesn't have exit controls.

 

You are asking the OP to produce a document that doesn't exist.

[StolidCruiser]

The USA doesn't have exit controls.

 

You are asking the OP to produce a document that doesn't exist.

 

While the US doesn't have "exit controls", upon exiting they have to enter somewhere. That entry evidence would qualify as documentation of exit.

[Jetlagged787]

The USA doesn't have exit controls.

 

You are asking the OP to produce a document that doesn't exist.

 

As a matter of interest, what is the process called that I have to pass through on exit, when my photograph and fingerprints are taken the same as on entry. That sounds sarcastic but us not meant to be. I am genuinely interested what the difference is between "exit controls" and what actually occurs to us non-US citizens.

[hawkeyetlse]

While the US doesn't have "exit controls", upon exiting they have to enter somewhere. That entry evidence would qualify as documentation of exit.

But as already mentioned earlier, many countries don't stamp passports for returning citizens (or for EU citizens, when they return to the EU). I don't personally know what happens if you request some sort of documentation of your return, whether they will accept to disregard their established entry procedures on the fly and stamp your passport (seems like a minor thing but lots of countries are real sticklers about when to stamp and when not to), or if you have to wait for them to produce some other kind of document.

 

It does seem unfair for the US to not only not stamp passports on departure, but also to put the onus on the visitor in cases like the OP's to obtain some other proof that they left the country.

[Jetlagged787]

In my case, where I was accused of UNDER staying on a student visa, I suggested they contacted the airline to ask for confirmation that I left the country on the flight planned to coincide with the end of my course. I was firmly told that would not prove anything as I could have left the course and country part way through and then returned and left again on my originally booked flight. As if!

 

Thank goodness at least one of them had the commonsense to dig a little deeper and discovered an email from the school. It confirmed what I was trying to tell them, that I had to leave the school early due to illness, but stayed on in the US and left on my planned date.

 

I still do not understand why it is considered so serious to under stay. Perhaps, if any member of CBT is on these boards and reads this, they would be able to advise me.

[Tomtom70]

But as already mentioned earlier, many countries don't stamp passports for returning citizens (or for EU citizens, when they return to the EU). I don't personally know what happens if you request some sort of documentation of your return, whether they will accept to disregard their established entry procedures on the fly and stamp your passport (seems like a minor thing but lots of countries are real sticklers about when to stamp and when not to), or if you have to wait for them to produce some other kind of document.

 

It does seem unfair for the US to not only not stamp passports on departure, but also to put the onus on the visitor in cases like the OP's to obtain some other proof that they left the country.

 

Actually the earlier mentioned US immigration site holds these records electronically. Both deparatures and arrivals.

 

Stamping of passports does not even need to happen on arrival if you enter on ESTA and you successfully use the automated passport control.

[Charles4515]

While the US doesn't have "exit controls", upon exiting they have to enter somewhere. That entry evidence would qualify as documentation of exit.

 

 

 

The US has electronic exit controls. Airlines check passports on international flights and record and report all departures.

 

 

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Edited December 27, 2016 by Charles4515

[hawkeyetlse]

Stamping of passports does not even need to happen on arrival if you enter on ESTA and you successfully use the automated passport control.

 

I did not know that automated passport control was available for non-US citizens. The entry stamp is a low-tech indication — i.e. accessible without access to remote databases — that the holder is in the US legally (and a reminder to the passport bearer of how long they can stay).

 

Airlines provide info to CBP, but they are unable to perform the same checks that CBP can (for example, authenticity of the passport). Basically they glance briefly at the name on whatever document you show them, maybe at the photo and at your face. So this is no replacement for an actual exit control by border officials.

[JohnIreland]

As a matter of interest, what is the process called that I have to pass through on exit, when my photograph and fingerprints are taken the same as on entry. That sounds sarcastic but us not meant to be. I am genuinely interested what the difference is between "exit controls" and what actually occurs to us non-US citizens.

 

The US doesn't do any of that when leaving.

 

Might it have been on in the country you traveled to ?

[Charles4515]

I did not know that automated passport control was available for non-US citizens. The entry stamp is a low-tech indication — i.e. accessible without access to remote databases — that the holder is in the US legally (and a reminder to the passport bearer of how long they can stay).

 

Airlines provide info to CBP, but they are unable to perform the same checks that CBP can (for example, authenticity of the passport). Basically they glance briefly at the name on whatever document you show them, maybe at the photo and at your face. So this is no replacement for an actual exit control by border officials.

 

 

 

They don't need a CBP exit check. You are leaving. They are happy you be gone! [emoji3]

 

There are automated passport entry machines at many airports. Global Entry which some non US travelers are eligible to join. There are other machines at some airports and I think anyone can use them but there is still a CBP official at the ones I have seen that you show the passport to.

 

 

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[WaveSplasher]

OK...time to put this to bed, yes? :rolleyes:

 

 

This excerpt is from the DHS page explaining ESTA:

 

"ESTA approval authorizes a traveler to board a carrier for travel to the United States under the VWP. Private carriers must be a signatory visa waiver program carrier. See list of Signatory Carriers. While CBP recommends that you apply at least 72 hours before travel, you may apply any time prior to boarding. In most cases, a response is received within seconds of submitting an application."

 

One should make note that "Private carriers must be a signatory visa waiver program carrier.".

 

Here is a link to latest list of private carriers who are approved by CBT to transport passengers traveling under ESTA: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2016-Jun/Signatory%20VWP%20Carriers%28June%202016%292.pdf.

 

While some cruise lines (for example: Carnival, MSC, Royal Caribbean and even Oceania and Regent Seven Seas) are on the approved list, Norwegian is NOT. Since Norwegian is NOT a signatory visa waiver program carrier, it only stands to reason that you can't travel onboard under this program.

 

Well this is new, I didn't know this existed. Thanks for the info. It's always the case of just needing the ESTA to enter the USA and that's it.

 

So i have to get a Visa which is stick to a page in my Passport and not Esta just to travel NCL? Well if that's the case, then I will refrain from cruising NCL due to the hassle.

 

I used the ESTA on a closed loop cruise on RCL in 2015. They did asked about whether I have a visa or they wouldn't allow me to board. But then when I explained that I was under the VWP and wanted to let them see the documentation, they said it was fine and let me through. Returning to the US, the same thing. Just tell the immigration that I'm on Esta and they let me through.

 

This whole thing could have gone wrong if I had chosen to cruise NCL instead.

 

Has anyone else been able to cruise NCL if you are under VWP (ESTA) before? This is weird.

[JohnIreland]

 

Has anyone else been able to cruise NCL if you are under VWP (ESTA) before? This is weird.

 

Yes, many times.

[Jetlagged787]

The US doesn't do any of that when leaving.

 

Might it have been on in the country you traveled to ?

 

With respect John, this happened to me when leaving both Daytona Beach in 2005 and Orlando (MCO) in 2011. Photos and fingerprints on both occasions.

[StolidCruiser]

But as already mentioned earlier, many countries don't stamp passports for returning citizens (or for EU citizens, when they return to the EU). I don't personally know what happens if you request some sort of documentation of your return, whether they will accept to disregard their established entry procedures on the fly and stamp your passport (seems like a minor thing but lots of countries are real sticklers about when to stamp and when not to), or if you have to wait for them to produce some other kind of document.

 

It does seem unfair for the US to not only not stamp passports on departure, but also to put the onus on the visitor in cases like the OP's to obtain some other proof that they left the country.

 

Why is it not the responsibility of the traveller to ensue the proper documentation of their status?

 

It would seem the onus is on the US to predict the future actions of those departing while other countries get a pass for failing to document those coming into their country (whether returning citizens or foreign visitors).

Edited December 27, 2016 by StolidCruiser

[Jetlagged787]

With respect John, this happened to me when leaving both Daytona Beach in 2005 and Orlando (MCO) in 2011. Photos and fingerprints on both occasions.

 

Sorry, I made a mistake. I have just checked and in the case of Daytona in November 2005, it was thumb prints only. Orlando six years later, was photos and fingerprints.

[RDC1]

The USA doesn't have exit controls.

 

You are asking the OP to produce a document that doesn't exist.

 

The point is that while the Us does not normally check during exits, as was mentioned earlier you can request and get your departure documented on your passport or Visa document. You can also make sure that your home country stamps the passport upon entry such that your passport carries proof that you left the US. Many countries do not stamp the passport for residents when they return.

[mypleasure]

 

Has anyone else been able to cruise NCL if you are under VWP (ESTA) before? This is weird.

 

Visited the US and cruised NCL from US ports many times with ESTA. ESTA is valid for 2 years and multiple entries to the USA.

[DipBrat]

Sorry, I made a mistake. I have just checked and in the case of Daytona in November 2005, it was thumb prints only. Orlando six years later, was photos and fingerprints.

 

 

You were photographed departing from Orlando. By whom? I don't mean to doubt you but don't see how this is possible. If I don't have luggage I might not even talk to anyone in person. So when you check in with a passport from some countries you need to go somewhere else to be photographed and fingerprinted?

 

 

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[firstcarib]

Makes sense...in a bubble. However, while we know that the ESTAs allowed them to enter the US, do we know for a fact that the ESTAs were written to allow them to enter the other countries that the ship would be stopping at during the cruise??

 

Just because they had documents which allowed travel between their home country and the US does not mean that those documents allowed travel to other countries.[/

 

Hello fellow sailors....

I just want to let you lnow that an ESTA is only a American legislation. It is not applicable to any other countries than the USA, so an ESTA would not be necessary to enter other countries on the ships voyage. Other countries make their own rules of entry, visas etc. They do not care about ESTAs.

 

FYI, The ESTA website states the following....

The Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) is an automated system that assists in determining eligibility of an individual to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. Any individual wishing to travel to the United States visa free must first apply for permission on-line using ESTA.

Edited December 28, 2016 by firstcarib
Typos

[RDC1]

Actually the earlier mentioned US immigration site holds these records electronically. Both deparatures and arrivals.

 

Stamping of passports does not even need to happen on arrival if you enter on ESTA and you successfully use the automated passport control.

Rather than everyone going around in circles.

 

Did you ask what specific documentaton the cruise line need to show proper departure? If so what documentation would they have been willing to accept?

[CPT Trips]

Rather than everyone going around in circles.

 

Did you ask what specific documentaton the cruise line need to show proper departure? If so what documentation would they have been willing to accept?

 

A bunch of folks are missing one big fact. Other than the two travelers that had expired student visas, the remainder of OPs group were cleared to board. Their ESTA was accepted. Seems to be NCL at fault.

[hawkeyetlse]

While it is ultimately NCL's decision (and the Captain's decision, if he was even made aware of the situation), they are not going to go against the advice of the port agents and board someone who the port agents (rightly or wrongly) have determined to have inadequate travel documents.

 

I agree that all of this "ESTA is invalid on NCL" discussion is both wrong and kind of beside the point as far as the OP's case goes. (But I think they would have completely sidestepped the old visa issue if they had applied for new tourist visas instead of taking a chance with the VWP).

[purepixie67]

I'm sorry but I do not see why it is 'taking a chance' getting an ESTA. It is what the state department and NCL tell a passenger to do.

 

When you apply for an ESTA your previous visa and travel are checked. I know this because a colleague was refused an ESTA and had to attend the American Embassy to get a full visa.

 

If an ESTA is accepted on arrival in the US - and indeed for being allowed to board a plane to the US - then why would it not be accepted when returning from a cruise?