Tipping with Freedom Dining.

[brillo]

Here in leafy Surrey nearly all restaraunts and pubs include a service charge on the bill.

[insanemagnet]

I don't have a problem with that and factor it in to the cost of the cruise.

 

That would be a reasonable view if P&O actually showed the whole cost of the wage surcharge on the booking page.

 

They don't.

 

The conclusion I draw is they are at best being deceptive by hiding this hidden cost.

[Eglesbrech]

Here in leafy Surrey nearly all restaraunts and pubs include a service charge on the bill.

 

Just out of interest has it always been the case that there was a service charge or is this a more recent thing?

[wowzz]

Would you go to a land based Resort holiday and tip everyone in sight. Probably not, so why is it so on a cruise.

Actually, yes.

[terrierjohn]

That would be a reasonable view if P&O actually showed the whole cost of the wage surcharge on the booking page.

 

They don't.

 

The conclusion I draw is they are at best being deceptive by hiding this hidden cost.

I doubt their deception is working since everyone seems to know about cruise auto tipping/gratuities/service charges, call them what you will.

So no I don't think P&O are trying to hide them, but probably they do prefer not to include them in the base price, which is a pity because I think the majority would now prefer that.

[dgs1956]

That would be a reasonable view if P&O actually showed the whole cost of the wage surcharge on the booking page.

 

They don't.

 

The conclusion I draw is they are at best being deceptive by hiding this hidden cost.

 

But there again P&O don't give you a run down on every cost they incur when they provide a cruise.

[daiB]

That would be a reasonable view if P&O actually showed the whole cost of the wage surcharge on the booking page.

 

They don't.

 

The conclusion I draw is they are at best being deceptive by hiding this hidden cost.

 

 

Someone's a high horse again.

 

 

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

So no I don't think P&O are trying to hide them

 

Really?

 

At what point in the booking process is there existence even hinted at.

[grapau27]

Someone's a high horse again.

 

 

 

 

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For telling what he thinks is right?.Really.

[daiB]

For telling what he thinks is right?.Really.

 

 

For saying it over and over again with no proof of anything.

 

 

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

Really?

 

At what point in the booking process is there existence even hinted at.

It's in the T&C's, and in the "all you need to know" section in the back of the brochure, and any newbie who researches cruising can hardly avoid all the discussions on every forum. But I am equally certain that the odd few passengers don't pick up on it until they are on board, or they are just Oscar winning actors.

[wowzz]

Agreed, it is not as if it is a hidden cost. Some posters will soon be arguing that as they do not use the swimming pool, they should have the cost of the pool deducted off their bill.

 

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[Tom Baker]

So when you go Dominoes/Papa John's for a takeaway pizza do you always leave a tip no and do you tip the ice cream man when you get an ice cream off his van I very much doubt it. You are being brainwashed by the cruise companies that you should pay tips to everybody that smiles at you like Americans or leave auto gratuity in place.....sorry Service Reward Scheme because it is in the interest of P&O that you do then they can get away with paying staff crap wages then you pay tips to get them to a decent level therefore more profit for P&O (Carnival).

 

Papa who? What's a takeaway? Ice cream vans haven't been around my area since John Major was Prime Minister (he can't get through security)

 

 

But yes I tip my hairdresser, my chauffeur, my dustbinman(person) & my dog sitter. I even tip my caddie, and the stable lad (lass), the bar steward at my club and the chiropodist (not at my club)

 

 

I don't remember ever being brainwas Strong and Stable Leadership. Strong and Stable Leadership. Strong and Stable Leadership ...

[insanemagnet]

It's in the T&C's, and in the "all you need to know" section in the back of the brochure

 

So as I said, the existence of a voluntary wage surcharge isn't disclosed at all during the booking process, let alone the amount.

 

As for a brochure, the people who even realise they exist, let alone book from them are a rapidly shrinking group. I think the last time I used one would have been in the last millennium.

[grapau27]

So as I said, the existence of a voluntary wage surcharge isn't disclosed at all during the booking process, let alone the amount.

 

As for a brochure, the people who even realise they exist, let alone book from them are a rapidly shrinking group. I think the last time I used one would have been in the last millennium.

I have never seen any crew unrest so guess they are happy with their lot.

[davecttr]

So as I said, the existence of a voluntary wage surcharge isn't disclosed at all during the booking process, let alone the amount.

 

As for a brochure, the people who even realise they exist, let alone book from them are a rapidly shrinking group. I think the last time I used one would have been in the last millennium.

 

True but that is marketing, keep the headline price as low as possible.

 

The basic point is that the voluntary daily charge is part of some of the staffs wages and has always been so. We pay the staffs wages through the fare, profits on stuff we buy aboard, excursions and the daily service charge.

 

What is wrong with the P&O system is that you can remove that daily charge and have a cheaper holiday subsidised by those who do not remove the charge. This irritates me :mad:

 

Two solutions

 

One - make the charge compulsory. People will still argue about how much it is.

 

Two - Roll it into the fare and don't itemise it so the arguments go away, either pay the price and cruise or don't pay and don't cruise ;)

 

A rolled into the fare tipping system probably still has behind the scenes complex calculations for stuff like commission and staff award schemes etc. We just don't need to worry about it.

[grapau27]

True but that is marketing, keep the headline price as low as possible.

 

The basic point is that the voluntary daily charge is part of some of the staffs wages and has always been so. We pay the staffs wages through the fare, profits on stuff we buy aboard, excursions and the daily service charge.

 

What is wrong with the P&O system is that you can remove that daily charge and have a cheaper holiday subsidised by those who do not remove the charge. This irritates me :mad:

 

Two solutions

 

One - make the charge compulsory. People will still argue about how much it is.

 

Two - Roll it into the fare and don't itemise it so the arguments go away, either pay the price and cruise or don't pay and don't cruise ;)

 

A rolled into the fare tipping system probably still has behind the scenes complex calculations for stuff like commission and staff award schemes etc. We just don't need to worry about it.

Good post

[eddie11]

I agree

 

Make sure you write this in on every questionnaire you do. They always ask a question on all-inclusive. I had thought that meant drinks but maybe not? Perhaps they are thinking of going the Thomson/6* route?

[insanemagnet]

True but that is marketing, keep the headline price as low as possible.

 

With the exception of restaurant service charges, I struggle to think of anything else where there is a 'hidden' voluntary charge added after you have purchased.

 

In fact cruise companies are worse than restaurants, because at least restaurants have the decency to show the service charge on the menu, rather than buried away in the FAQs.

 

The basic point is that the voluntary daily charge is part of some of the staffs wages and has always been so. We pay the staffs wages through the fare, profits on stuff we buy aboard, excursions and the daily service charge.

 

What is wrong with the P&O system is that you can remove that daily charge and have a cheaper holiday subsidised by those who do not remove the charge. This irritates me

 

Actually I could argue they are subsidising your holiday!

 

I have no facts, but I would guess that a good proportion of the people who decide not to pay the wage surcharge are price sensitive people who are not brand loyal and will move their custom to whichever company delivers the best value. P&O increases occupancy rates by selling cabins to these people, so spreading operating costs and getting increased revenue. If they didn't buy and P&O sailed with empty cabins, you would pay more.

 

Exactly the same way Ryanair will sell me a £5 flight which barely covers the cost, but hopes I will buy an overpriced KitKat, etc.

 

Two solutions

 

One - make the charge compulsory. People will still argue about how much it is.

 

Two - Roll it into the fare and don't itemise it so the arguments go away, either pay the price and cruise or don't pay and don't cruise ;)

 

A rolled into the fare tipping system probably still has behind the scenes complex calculations for stuff like commission and staff award schemes etc. We just don't need to worry about it.

 

The two solutions are the same. Consumer legislation would not allow a non-disclosed compulsory charge (and by disclosed I mean it would have to appear on the booking page in the total that must be paid). So the best you could do would be to have a separate line before the total you pay on the ticket price with a wage element. Why would you want to do that?

 

Anyway don't worry, an inclusive price will eventually come. NCL have already introduced it for their cruises sold through UK and European websites, with the same cruises sold to Americans with 'gratuities extra'.

 

NCL did it because they sell to a different customer base in the UK and Europe than P&O. P&O customers are older and have either grown up with the cruise ship tipping culture or feel socially embarrassed to do anything about it.

 

NCL's younger customers see no such issue. If a company wants to 'cheat' by hiding part of the cost, then their problem if customers take them up on the optional nature of the charge.

[Teddy123]

If a company wants to 'cheat' by hiding part of the cost, then [it's] their problem if customers take them up on the optional nature of the charge.

Some people see it as the company suffering, others think that it's the staff who rely on the service charge who suffer.

[insanemagnet]

Some people see it as the company suffering, others think that it's the staff who rely on the service charge who suffer.

 

In a price conscious world, how many people worry that the courier delivering their Amazon parcel has been paid 50p to do it. The argument would be, don't like it, do something else (not condoning that view, just saying it as some people will see it).

 

At the end of the day it will be the company will suffer when the staff leave to go to work for a cruise company that doesn't have an optional wage surcharge or to a cruise company that attracts customer from countries that does have a tipping culture.

 

So if the 'roll it up into the price' brigade want to get that to happen, what they should do is stop paying the optional charge and try and persuade everyone else to do the same. The alternative it is to play King Cnut and get damp feet.

[SteveH2508]

<snip>

 

Anyway don't worry, an inclusive price will eventually come. NCL have already introduced it for their cruises sold through UK and European websites, with the same cruises sold to Americans with 'gratuities extra'.

 

NCL did it because they sell to a different customer base in the UK and Europe than P&O. P&O customers are older and have either grown up with the cruise ship tipping culture or feel socially embarrassed to do anything about it.

 

NCL's younger customers see no such issue. If a company wants to 'cheat' by hiding part of the cost, then their problem if customers take them up on the optional nature of the charge.

 

I agree that all inclusive will probably (hopefully) come along soon. I think that NCL had to roll the on board service charge into the fare because they included drinks in their AI fare. It would be illogical to include drinks (and associated 18% gratuities) but not the daily on board service charge. They would not be allowed to call it all-inclusive if they still had the 'optional' daily OBSC. They were also finding that a higher proportion of Brits were removing the OBSC for whatever reason.

 

If Thompson can make AI work then P&O should be able to, given the will to do so.

[insanemagnet]

I think that NCL had to roll the on board service charge into the fare because they included drinks in their AI fare. It would be illogical to include drinks (and associated 18% gratuities) but not the daily on board service charge. They would not be allowed to call it all-inclusive if they still had the 'optional' daily OBSC.

 

NCL had been running an almost continuous free drinks promotion, provided you didn't book a guaranteed cabin and you booked more than about six weeks out. The promotion included the drinks and the gratuities on the drinks, but not the daily service charge.

 

So not sure what marketing benefit to them to stop advertising free drinks and now advertising AI, when they never mentioned the service charge anyway.

 

They were also finding that a higher proportion of Brits were removing the OBSC for whatever reason.

 

Having sailed with NCL a couple of years back (and benefited from free drinks) the customer base is completely different to P&O. The age profile on the ship was more 30-50, rather than the 60 to infinity on P&O, so probably not seasoned cruisers that expect to pay an optional service charge, but people who have booked a cruise for the first time as a change from a beach resort.

[Teddy123]

So if the 'roll it up into the price' brigade want to get that to happen, what they should do is stop paying the optional charge and try and persuade everyone else to do the same. The alternative it is to play King Cnut and get damp feet.

Not very fair on the thousands and thousands of hard-working crew who would miss out in the process!

[daiB]

Not very fair on the thousands and thousands of hard-working crew who would miss out in the process!

I agree a totally bonkers suggestion from someone who has not a cluecand makes up scare stories.

 

Just trying to justify not tipping. Disgraceful

 

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