Why Can't Cruise Lines Do Muster Drills Better?

[mjkacmom]

My last 3 were on NCL, 2 were in restaurants, 1 was in the theatre, all were pretty painless.

[Azure Moon]

I've done inside and outside on NCL and they've been been fairly quick, and to borrow the previous poster's prefect description - "painless". Quicker when passengers don't paddle getting there! :- P

[Slugsta]

All of the muster drills I have attended, thus far, have been held inside and most, if not all, pax have been able to sit down. I would have thought this more conducive to retaining information than being made to stand outside in the heat/rain!

[SantaFeFan]

All of the muster drills I have attended, thus far, have been held inside and most, if not all, pax have been able to sit down. I would have thought this more conducive to retaining information than being made to stand outside in the heat/rain!

 

On our first cruise the ship was docked at a container terminal. Our muster station was at our assigned lifeboats. While not in the sun or rain, our station was on the dock side of the terminal. The noise on shore was so loud during the drill that we could hardly hear any on the instructions. Not an ideal situation at all. It is so much better in an inside area where the climate and noise issues are under the ship's control and not a victim of what is going on around the ship.

[Shmoo here]

How about this;

 

Just like the airlines, the ship's captain makes a ship wide announcement 30 minutes before departure.

He instructs everyone onboard that there will be a safety video shown shipwide in 15 minutes. He invites everyone to turn on their stateroom television, or go to a public television in one of the bars or lounges.

15 minutes before departure, all televisions and all speakers onboard carry the safety drill information - just like on the airlines. And just like on the airlines, you can choose to watch and/or listen - or not.

 

Very easy, No?

Very easy. However, one of the reasons for the muster drill is to start giving you some "muscle memory" as to where to go in the even of an emergency. Just watching the recorded message in the nearby bar won't help if you don't know where your specific lifeboat/emergency station is.

[navybankerteacher]

How about this;

 

Just like the airlines, the ship's captain makes a ship wide announcement 30 minutes before departure.

He instructs everyone onboard that there will be a safety video shown shipwide in 15 minutes. He invites everyone to turn on their stateroom television, or go to a public television in one of the bars or lounges.

15 minutes before departure, all televisions and all speakers onboard carry the safety drill information - just like on the airlines. And just like on the airlines, you can choose to watch and/or listen - or not.

 

Very easy, No?

 

NO! Absolutely NO - not easy at all.

 

The muster drills are required exercises - and letting several thousand passengers decide whether to participate is stupid and irresponsible: not participating is not an option: the exercises are not part of the entertainment, they are required - even for those who lack understanding.

[navybankerteacher]

No I am not naive. (Read my posts here on CC for more information). You said;

 

 

 

And I just pointed out ( ie. told you) that BA gained 2 customers partly due to their video.

 

So to quote you again "Are you so naive to believe ..." that absolutely no passengers would change to Air New Zealand or British Airways due to their safety videos out of the millions who fly those routes each year? :rolleyes:

 

It's kind of silly to compare airline safety talks with those relevant to cruise ships. Can you imagine an emergency evacuation of an airplane allowing the time for counting heads and going back to find no- shows?

 

When it comes to evacuation, the bad stuff has hit the fan, and seconds count.

 

Any successful emergency evacuation of an airplane is usually done within two minutes - any longer and the johnny come latelys are toast / literally. On a ship such an exercise usually involves very many minutes, if not hours.

[OzKiwiJJ]

And everyone now wants an indoor muster station; lounge or dining room, which also does not give you a muscle memory of where your lifeboat might be.

What's the difference whether they tell you in the dining room where your lifeboat might be - or on television?

 

The venues that Princess uses for their muster stations have direct access to the promenade deck and therefore the lifeboats assigned to that muster station. In the case if a real emergency passengers would be guided though the access points to their life raft - a distance of a few metres only.

 

So you get the "muscle memory" of where to go in an emergency without having crowds of people milling about on a narrow promenade deck while they are preparing the life boats for use.

[Shmoo here]

And everyone now wants an indoor muster station; lounge or dining room, which also does not give you a muscle memory of where your lifeboat might be.

What's the difference whether they tell you in the dining room where your lifeboat might be - or on television?

 

Emergency instructions are on the back of your stateroom door. That doesn't change if you see it on television, hear it on the PA system, or get the info from a crewmember in the dining room.

 

If it works on an airplane, why can it not work on a ship?

Our drills where we mustered indoors, that was our muster station. Had there been an actual emergency, that's where we were to go. Then they walk the group to the lifeboat. In fact, on Carnival, after we mustered inside in one of the lounges, and everyone was checked in, they walked us to our lifeboat before we were dismissed.

[Robinsoncruiseso]

Plus there are reasons one might be called to their muster station when evacuation via lifeboat is not necessary. Like many frequent cruisers, we could recite the drill, but still always attend, always bring life jacket (required on Princess) and remain quiet. Just because I may not listen to every word, those around me might.

[ldubs]

2????????

Really, 2?????

Do you honestly think that 2 passengers changing carriers will influence a multi-national company's policies?

If 2 million passengers changed carriers based on safety videos, the "suits" might notice it - or not.

If 20 million passengers changed carriers, they would probably send a few memos and discuss it at a meeting.

Are you so naive to believe that a few passengers changing their travel patterns will cause a major multi-national travel company to change it's operations?

 

Wait, what? Your company "suits" might or might not make an "easy" (your word) change that would improve customer satisfaction and potentially gain 2 million customers. And, the potential for 20 million would result in only a discussion. How many passengers does your line carry annually? Any cruise line executive would do a lot more than make a muster video to gain 2 million customers. Your examples are bogus. You are naive if you think we believe your numbers.

[ldubs]

So why does Air New Zealand keep on making those amusing safety videos? Presumably because they perceive some value from them.

 

They make them because quality companies know that improving customer satisfaction improves top line revenue.

 

Since the muster drill is one of the first day experiences on every cruise we don't know how much a bad muster drill experience colours people's overall expectations for the remainder of the cruise. Are people more critical of minor faults, slow service, food not to their liking, and so on. Are people on Princess more relaxed on that first evening than those on HAL, Carnival, RCI, Celebrity etc.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head. I think it is fair to say that very few look forward to muster drills. If you can have an effective muster drill that is easier/more relaxed, then we are happier. That and in your later post you point out the benefits of having groups muster in proximity to the lifeboat deck instead of crowding the deck. And, how this could result in a more manageable and more successful handling of an emergency situation. Hopefully we will never have to test it in real life.

[Z'Loth]

Why the need for Muster Drills? Shall we say "Costa Concordia"? How many passengers and crew died? 32.

 

I bet people were paying more close attention to the drills after January, 2012.

[lisiamc]

Why the need for Muster Drills? Shall we say "Costa Concordia"? How many passengers and crew died? 32.

 

I bet people were paying more close attention to the drills after January' date=' 2012.[/quote']

 

I am a great supporter of muster drills, and I believer they are important. I always go, I pay attention, I do as I'm told. But no one on Concordia died because they hadn't practised where to go. The captain had (and wasted) hours to make the decision to assemble the passengers at their muster stations. They could easily have been guided to their muster stations, and evacuated before the ship developed such a severe list that many/most of the lifeboats became unusable. All the drills in the world won't help if the right decisions are not made at the right time.

[chengkp75]

I am a great supporter of muster drills, and I believer they are important. I always go, I pay attention, I do as I'm told. But no one on Concordia died because they hadn't practised where to go. The captain had (and wasted) hours to make the decision to assemble the passengers at their muster stations. They could easily have been guided to their muster stations, and evacuated before the ship developed such a severe list that many/most of the lifeboats became unusable. All the drills in the world won't help if the right decisions are not made at the right time.

 

While I completely agree that the sole cause of fatalities on the Concordia was Schettino's ( I refuse to give him a title) failure to signal the muster in a timely fashion. But I must point out that 23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

[lisiamc]

While I completely agree that the sole cause of fatalities on the Concordia was Schettino's ( I refuse to give him a title) failure to signal the muster in a timely fashion. But I must point out that 23 of 26 lifeboats were successfully launched.

 

Interesting point! I had read that there was difficulty launching some of them, since they didn't commence launching until the ship had tilted more than 30 degrees and settled on the sea bed. Was it more of a situation of it being difficult to get people into the life boats when the list was so severe?

[chengkp75]

Interesting point! I had read that there was difficulty launching some of them, since they didn't commence launching until the ship had tilted more than 30 degrees and settled on the sea bed. Was it more of a situation of it being difficult to get people into the life boats when the list was so severe?

 

The 23 boats took about 2850 passengers off the ship, or about 123/boat, about 80% capacity. Given the late mustering, this isn't bad. On the other hand, 6 life rafts (35 person capacity each) held only a total of 80 people.

 

At the time the announcement to abandon ship was given, the ship was only listing about 10-11*, but this increased to 25-30* within about 15-20 minutes, resulting in difficulty in launching the high side boats.

 

Along with the unconscionably late call for passenger muster (which was actually never given, nor was an abandon ship signal given, just an announcement), the announcement was for "abandon ship" which means that the crew are freed from their emergency duties at the same time the passengers are trying to get to and into their boats. This added to the chaos caused by the late call to the boats, and the subsequent difficulty loading the boats (initially not due to listing, but due to everyone trying to get into the boats right away, and not following instructions), and then the late comers traveling across the ship to either get away from the low side where the embarkation deck was getting near the water, or from the high side where they were witnessing the difficulties in lowering the boats.

[dsrdsrdsr]

On P&O and other UK lines, the muster stations are indoors. That's because the emergency signal doesn't mean abandon ship, it means get the passengers together in case we need to abandon ship. If the engine room catches fire and it's a wet and windy night, you aren't going to improve the (mostly elderly) passengers' chances of survival by making them stand outside in the rain for a few hours.

 

How do they arrange transfers on these ships where you have your own lifeboat? If the lifeboat is 99% full and the last passenger turns up, then surely they'll send it off rather than waiting until the entire ship has been searched. So where does that last passenger go when his lifeboat has sailed?

[chengkp75]

On P&O and other UK lines, the muster stations are indoors. That's because the emergency signal doesn't mean abandon ship, it means get the passengers together in case we need to abandon ship. If the engine room catches fire and it's a wet and windy night, you aren't going to improve the (mostly elderly) passengers' chances of survival by making them stand outside in the rain for a few hours.

 

How do they arrange transfers on these ships where you have your own lifeboat? If the lifeboat is 99% full and the last passenger turns up, then surely they'll send it off rather than waiting until the entire ship has been searched. So where does that last passenger go when his lifeboat has sailed?

 

Only rarely are the boats at capacity. Even a "sold out" (no cabins available) cruise is not necessarily at full capacity (not enough 3rd/4th guests in the cabins) to fill all the boats to capacity. So, if the deck officer in charge decides to launch a boat with an incomplete muster (notice I didn't say "under capacity", since they most frequently will be), that late passenger can be placed in another boat, or in a crew life raft if needed.

 

Now, as you say, the muster does not necessarily mean that you will be getting into the boats. There are crew assigned to ensure that all cabins and public spaces are evacuated, and these will then be utilized to search for people who have not been accounted for at the muster location, and if the muster is signaled at the proper time, there is plenty of time to ensure everyone gets to their station before the crew would start to load the boat.

[AdGuyMG]

Emergency instructions are on the back of your stateroom door. That doesn't change if you see it on television, hear it on the PA system, or get the info from a crewmember in the dining room. If it works on an airplane, why can it not work on a ship?

The logistics of explaining and effectively communicating the emergency evacuation procedure of a 150 foot long, 20 foot wide airliner like a Boeing 767 to 200 people that are already sitting together seat-belted in as a captive audience and all within 40 to 50 feet of an emergency exit is a relatively easy task Communicating the emergency evacuation procedure and logistics involved with a 1000 foot long 15 story high cruise ship carrying 3000 people who for the most part at the beginning of their cruise are totally unfamiliar with the layout and location of the public rooms aboard the ship and their own surroundings is best accomplished with a drill. Would you say that the emergency exit procedures for a 200 seat land based movie theater or restaurant should be the same as an 18 story 3000 occupant office building? As for asking a crew member in the dining room during an emergency exactly where your Muster Station "D" is and how to get there .. you've got to be kidding.

[Aquahound]

How about this;

 

Just like the airlines, the ship's captain makes a ship wide announcement 30 minutes before departure.

He instructs everyone onboard that there will be a safety video shown shipwide in 15 minutes. He invites everyone to turn on their stateroom television, or go to a public television in one of the bars or lounges.

15 minutes before departure, all televisions and all speakers onboard carry the safety drill information - just like on the airlines. And just like on the airlines, you can choose to watch and/or listen - or not.

 

Very easy, No?

 

And everyone now wants an indoor muster station; lounge or dining room, which also does not give you a muscle memory of where your lifeboat might be.

What's the difference whether they tell you in the dining room where your lifeboat might be - or on television?

 

Emergency instructions are on the back of your stateroom door. That doesn't change if you see it on television, hear it on the PA system, or get the info from a crewmember in the dining room.

 

If it works on an airplane, why can it not work on a ship?

 

First of all, on an airplane, you can always see your exit. Unless you are in the head, the exits are always in sight. Not true with muster stations. So, that's a bad example.

 

Two, cruise passengers don't necessarily need to know where their lifeboat is. They need to know where their muster station is. Whether it's indoor our outdoor, that's where they need to get to on their own. Once there, their responsibility changes to following crew directions, who will escort them to their lifeboats.

[Z'Loth]

I am a great supporter of muster drills, and I believer they are important. I always go, I pay attention, I do as I'm told.

Good for you. A little bit of preparation for what won't happen over 99% of the time goes a long way.

But no one on Concordia died because they hadn't practiced where to go.

Dunno, as there was no muster drill following the departure from Rome. From this old Cruise Critic article:

Even some of the most flagrant violators must be rethinking that behavior in light of the Costa Concordia disaster. But inattention at the muster drill played no part in this tragedy. The drill had not yet been held for the 696 passengers who boarded in Rome, even though the ship was some three hours out of port and passengers were eating dinner when the accident occurred. Yet the ship appears to have been in compliance with muster drill requirements.

 

(text deleted)

 

They require that the drill take place within 24 hours of embarkation. The regulations differentiate between a muster and a "safety briefing." (text deleted) But a muster, where passengers are physically assembled, is required only within 24 hours of sailing. (In Concordia's case, the muster drill was scheduled to take place after additional passengers boarded on Day 2 in Savona, Italy, which would have been within the required 24-hour window.)

After that disaster, muster drill procedures were changed.

 

The captain had (and wasted) hours to make the decision to assemble the passengers at their muster stations. They could easily have been guided to their muster stations, and evacuated before the ship developed such a severe list that many/most of the lifeboats became unusable. All the drills in the world won't help if the right decisions are not made at the right time.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the captain made a series of bad judgement calls. The end results was turning a $570 million 5.5 year old ship into a $2 billion disaster, including victims' compensation, refloating, towing and scrapping costs. That's something that Francesco Schettino is probably thinking about during his stay at Rebibbia Prison.

[dsrdsrdsr]

The only sort of lifeboat drill that would have been helpful on the Concordia would have been one that dealt with the Concordia's specific situation - ie. the captain is running round like a headless chicken and no-one else is taking charge. All the lifeboat drills I have been to assume that the crew as a whole will do its job.

[rmurray847]

On all my cruises it was obvious that the late arrivals and constant talking of passengers were largely responsible for the time wasted. On a couple, when everyone seemed to show up promptly, and everyone shut up and listened, the drill was over in a ver few minutes. I have never experienced hand-washing exhortation, smoking policy or entertainment schedule discussion.

 

It is pretty clear that the inconvenience such drills impose upon passengers is self-inflicted.

 

TRUE. It has always seemed that a large percentage (majority?) of passengers really have no clue what they are in for when they sail. EVERYTHING seems to catch them by surprise. And despite all the announcements throughout the ship, and the fact that everything is closing...many still seem to hear about the muster drill about 2 minutes before it starts. The cruise lines should find other ways to alert folks. A handout when they arrive or check in. Signage. Notifications when they book their cruise online. Scripting to that effect when ordered through the operator. Etc. etc. HOWEVER, if I were the cruise line, I'd wonder if spending all that extra time and money is worth it. In the end, no matter how smooth, the muster drill is just something we endure. I enjoy the sense of anticipation it builds up...this is in many ways the final piece of "red tape" before the cruise gets full blown underway with no more restrictions. I also think they are more effective if folks are standing. Some we've done have packed the theater full of people, who all crash and start chatting or dozing...and miss the talk & demonstration. At least when you're out on deck standing in a scrunched line, you might be more likely to listen.

[ChalkDust55]

Princess has muster drills ,but also have mandatory video repeating instructions via the stateroom TV. DOUBLE DOSE of safety.

 

 

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