Dining - Odyssey - Evening hours of operation.....

[frantic36]

Seabourn features Dr. Andrew Weil programs on ships; so most guests know his health recommendations and many follow recommendations both onboard and at home. Dr. Weil would recommend eating earlier and lighter and avoiding many of the food items served at the afternoon tea.

 

"In middle age, metabolism slows, and weight not only goes on faster, it comes off much less easily. This is a good time in life to leave behind the dietary excesses of youth" Andrew Weil pg. 194 Optimum Health book

 

While many of the fit and younger guests can enjoy foods at afternoon tea and eat later and never gain any weight; many of the middle age guests may want to eat early and use some of Dr. Weil's recommendations to keep healthy and not gain weight. And there may be some active and fit older guests who can enjoy foods at the afternoon tea and eat a late dinner and not gain any weight.

 

Entering the dining room around 7 p.m. , our first course was served around 8 pm and our entrée after 9 p.m. so we finished our entrée around 10 p.m. and went to the show without dessert. If you are hungry around 6 p.m. and don't receive your entrée until after 9 p.m. , even if you attend the show you go to bed too full. It is not what time you enter the dining room, it is what time you are served dinner, and it is too late for many.

 

For those Seabourn guests who want to follow the recommendations on health from Dr. Andrew Weil; it makes sense that early dining options would be available.

 

Der Weil is right about the metabolism slowing down but in his lectures he ran last year on Seabourn there were many points I didn't agree with. I will be 60 soon and am now slim but a few years ago I was overweight. Even with my slower metabolism by changing my food choices, exercising more frequently my weight is now good and my doctor loves how great my blood results are. Oh and I eat late. Basically I do not think Dr Weil is my health guru.

 

That isn't to say that eating late works for everyone as it obviously doesn't but I just think on smaller ships it is difficult to manage a wide variety of dining hours.

 

Though I do agree that it isn't good when you get a time when service is very slow and I am sorry you experienced that. We have had that happen but very occasionally and we either mention it to staff that it was a problem we weren't happy with and/or ask for a different dining section.

 

Julie

 

I just edited a similar post on another thread but I have one question I would like to repeat here......

 

Can anyone tell me any smaller cruise lines that early dinner at 5.30-6.15 or 6.30? I only ask because I am curious.

[Emperor Norton]

Der Weil is right about the metabolism slowing down but in his lectures he ran last year on Seabourn there were many points I didn't agree with. I will be 60 soon and am now slim but a few years ago I was overweight. Even with my slower metabolism by changing my food choices, exercising more frequently my weight is now good and my doctor loves how great my blood results are. Oh and I eat late. Basically I do not think Dr Weil is my health guru.

 

That isn't to say that eating late works for everyone as it obviously doesn't but I just think on smaller ships it is difficult to manage a wide variety of dining hours.

 

Though I do agree that it isn't good when you get a time when service is very slow and I am sorry you experienced that. We have had that happen but very occasionally and we either mention it to staff that it was a problem we weren't happy with and/or ask for a different dining section.

 

Julie

 

I just edited a similar post on another thread but I have one question I would like to repeat here......

 

Can anyone tell me any smaller cruise lines that early dinner at 5.30-6.15 or 6.30? I only ask because I am curious.

 

Not: Silversea, Crystal or Regent.

[Chairsin]

I’m sorry but I really don’t understand why someone would think Dr Weil’s association with Seabourn and his views on eating should dictate dining times. His program is an optional enhancement not the dictum and philosophy of the line. If that were not the case the menus would be limited to “healthy” offerings and alcoholic beverages would be limited. Going on Seabourn is not like going to a health spa where one is trying to lose weight, and get fit and healthy. Besides, most people are only on Seabourn for a few weeks a year so such a regimen would hardly have any significant effect. And even if you try to adhere to some dictum of eating earlier at home for health reasons when you are on vacation part of the fun is to let loose a little bit and enjoy yourself doing things you don’t normally do at home.

 

But to me the more troubling part of this thread is the notion of persons who have yet to cruise on Seabourn trying to change it from the way most of us who have cruised on it for some years are quite satisfied with. We go through this time and time again on CC with many topics - the Dress Code, the lack of butlers, and smoking just to name a few. The bottom line is Seabourn is certainly not right for everyone (how could it be?)- and if it does not fit your preferences it is in your best interest to select another cruise line that is a better fit with your preferences.I say this not because I’m trying to be snobby (which seems unfortunately to be the common retort when we suggest someone not cruise on Seabourn ) - but rather because I don’t want people cruising with me to be unhappy because it doesn’t suit them. No fun for them, no fun for the the crew and yes, I’ll admit selfishly, no fun for me to be around moaners.

 

 

 

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[SKP946]

I’m sorry but I really don’t understand why someone would think Dr Weil’s association with Seabourn and his views on eating should dictate dining times. His program is an optional enhancement not the dictum and philosophy of the line. If that were not the case the menus would be limited to “healthy” offerings and alcoholic beverages would be limited. Going on Seabourn is not like going to a health spa where one is trying to lose weight, and get fit and healthy. Besides, most people are only on Seabourn for a few weeks a year so such a regimen would hardly have any significant effect. And even if you try to adhere to some dictum of eating earlier at home for health reasons when you are on vacation part of the fun is to let loose a little bit and enjoy yourself doing things you don’t normally do at home.

 

But to me the more troubling part of this thread is the notion of persons who have yet to cruise on Seabourn trying to change it from the way most of us who have cruised on it for some years are quite satisfied with. We go through this time and time again on CC with many topics - the Dress Code, the lack of butlers, and smoking just to name a few. The bottom line is Seabourn is certainly not right for everyone (how could it be?)- and if it does not fit your preferences it is in your best interest to select another cruise line that is a better fit with your preferences.I say this not because I’m trying to be snobby (which seems unfortunately to be the common retort when we suggest someone not cruise on Seabourn ) - but rather because I don’t want people cruising with me to be unhappy because it doesn’t suit them. No fun for them, no fun for the the crew and yes, I’ll admit selfishly, no fun for me to be around moaners.

 

 

 

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+1

Well said Chairsin:D

[Robisan]

But to me the more troubling part of this thread is the notion of persons who have yet to cruise on Seabourn trying to change it from the way most of us who have cruised on it for some years are quite satisfied with.

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any post in this thread requesting any change that would abridge or change open (or reserved TK) dining in any venue from 7pm to 9pm. Some have suggested SB open one of the venues at 6pm to accommodate early diners. That's it. Honestly I'm confused. How would that impact what you're quite satisfied with - dining between 7 and 9 - in any way?

[frantic36]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any post in this thread requesting any change that would abridge or change open (or reserved TK) dining in any venue from 7pm to 9pm. Some have suggested SB open one of the venues at 6pm to accommodate early diners. That's it. Honestly I'm confused. How would that impact what you're quite satisfied with - dining between 7 and 9 - in any way?

 

Because Seabourn is only a small cruise ship. There is a good ratio of crew per passenger but that is over all areas. The crew work really hard to cover all these areas but they are a finite resource. To add extra hours in another venue will add extra work and these people work hard enough. Especially with some of the demanding people I have encountered onboard.

 

As Emperor Norton mentioned other small cruise ships also don't do earlier hours. Though I think Crystal does or did when they had set dining with early and late seating. I don't think Sea Dream or Azamara have early hours. I am also not sure about River cruises. I am sure when I looked at Scenic, Uniworld and AMA they started dinner at 7pm.

 

Sometimes certain cruise lines won't work for people. I know there are certainly some I won't cruise on because they won't work for my husband and I, no matter how appealing a particular itinerary is.

 

Julie

[Robisan]

Because Seabourn is only a small cruise ship. There is a good ratio of crew per passenger but that is over all areas. The crew work really hard to cover all these areas but they are a finite resource. To add extra hours in another venue will add extra work and these people work hard enough. Especially with some of the demanding people I have encountered onboard.

 

As Emperor Norton mentioned other small cruise ships also don't do earlier hours. Though I think Crystal does or did when they had set dining with early and late seating. I don't think Sea Dream or Azamara have early hours. I am also not sure about River cruises. I am sure when I looked at Scenic, Uniworld and AMA they started dinner at 7pm.

 

Sometimes certain cruise lines won't work for people. I know there are certainly some I won't cruise on because they won't work for my husband and I, no matter how appealing a particular itinerary is.

 

Julie

Yes, but suppose for the sake of argument Seabourn decided in a staffing appropriate way to expand just the Colonnade by one hour, to be 6-9, while keeping everything else exactly the same. How does that make Chairsin change dining habits or satisfaction in any way?

[ab21au]

+1

Well said Chairsin:D

 

+2. (Me too).

 

Cruisers, if they are not happy with the dining times, always have the option of putting their complaints to SB in the feedback form. If majority wanted this, maybe SB would look at it.

 

For us, at home we eat early, on the ship we eat when ever but I am happy with the current options.

[DUHCAR]

+1

Well said Chairsin:D

 

+3 for Chairsin

[Roxburgh]

+3 for Chairsin

 

+4 here.

[Hoyaheel]

Most of my experience is on R class ships, which I recognize are a little larger than Seabourn in numbers of passengers but I don't know the difference in crew numbers. Azamara Dining starts at 6pm, at least it did when we last cruised that line (Asia, Dec 2016). My in-laws really like Oceania and I believe their dining starts at 6:30. It's been quite a few years since I was on Pacific Princess but their dining starts at 5:30 or 6 as well. [yes, I realize these are not luxury lines, but the issue I am trying to address is size of the ship as it impacts ability to serve multiple locations & times]

 

We did a river cruise on Avalon and dining started around 7 (after the port chat in the lounge, so it wasn't a precise science...) I still read the River Cruise forum here and it appears that more river cruise lines are attempting a more open dining policy, time wise, and also alternate dining locations [eg they're looking at ways to be more flexible in recognizing not everyone has the same dining preferences]

 

Hopefully there are lines that will work for all of us. Maybe even more than one line. Since I don't want to be on a ship with a lot of other passengers, my options are more limited (and more $$) than for others with different preferences.

[happy cruzer]

I know that each line is different and do enjoy that difference. Since dining time is the topic, a little research showed that Crystal dinner starts at 6:00, Regent at 6:30, Hapag-Loyd 6:30 in cafe and 7:00 in dining room, Windstar 7:00 and Sea Dream at 6:30. Just a little data...

[wripro]

Yes, but suppose for the sake of argument Seabourn decided in a staffing appropriate way to expand just the Colonnade by one hour, to be 6-9, while keeping everything else exactly the same. How does that make Chairsin change dining habits or satisfaction in any way?

 

Not sure what you mean by a "staffing appropriate way." Many of the staff who serve dinner at the Colonnade are still working the bars from 6 to 7PM so moving them to Colonnade early would mean a lessening of service there.

[Robisan]

Not sure what you mean by a "staffing appropriate way." Many of the staff who serve dinner at the Colonnade are still working the bars from 6 to 7PM so moving them to Colonnade early would mean a lessening of service there.

I mean making arrangements such that staff isn't overtaxed and service isn't diminished. That could even mean SB bringing on a few additional people to enable 6pm opening of Colonnade, justifiable if they conclude this would expand their passenger base.

[Isklaar]

+1

Well said Chairsin:D

 

 

+6 to what Chairsin said.

[frantic36]

I mean making arrangements such that staff isn't overtaxed and service isn't diminished. That could even mean SB bringing on a few additional people to enable 6pm opening of Colonnade, justifiable if they conclude this would expand their passenger base.

 

Robisan you do realise my comment about staff being a finite resource is also related to how many crew they can have onboard due to cabins available for staff. Are you suggesting they increase the number of crew sharing cabins and make them more uncomfortable just so some passengers can eat earlier? One thing why crew like to get jobs on ships like Seabourn is they are treated better, including not being crammed into cabins like sardines.

 

I like and appreciate the crew and think it is a tough job already, let them have some comfort in their off hours. I am sure you don't mean it, as I am sure you just are not realising that the ship isn't like a land hotel and has unique restrictions.

 

Julie

[Robisan]

Robisan you do realise my comment about staff being a finite resource is also related to how many crew they can have onboard due to cabins available for staff. Are you suggesting they increase the number of crew sharing cabins and make them more uncomfortable just so some passengers can eat earlier? One thing why crew like to get jobs on ships like Seabourn is they are treated better, including not being crammed into cabins like sardines.

 

I like and appreciate the crew and think it is a tough job already, let them have some comfort in their off hours. I am sure you don't mean it, as I am sure you just are not realising that the ship isn't like a land hotel and has unique restrictions.

 

Julie

I'm suggesting management, staff and crew can be very creative when they want to be. Resources are fungible. Staff assigned to the Retreat nobody wants can reassigned elsewhere (I dare say more people want an earlier dining option than want the Retreat). Crew quarters probably has some excess capacity (they certainly had room for the temporary workers repairing Sojourn's deck). Etc. Maybe they can do it without overburden, maybe they can't. The fact is neither you or I know for sure.

 

But all of this is non-responsive to my question. Neither you or Chairsin or any of the other Amen chorus +1's have explained how adding just one 6pm hour to Colonnade while keeping everything else exactly the same would "change it from the way most of us who have cruised on it for some years are quite satisfied with." That's Chairsin's complaint - that somehow early dinner option advocates are demanding changes that would require Chairsin to change, to forego what is now satisfactory. Yet nobody has suggested any such thing in this thread. Dinner from 7 to 9 in any venue of choice would remain intact, just as it is now.

 

I'm really not trying to be difficult here. I honestly just don't get it. Why are you all "moaning" when literally nothing would change for you?

[ab21au]

IMHO if 1hr was added to the crew working in the dining areas and there are X number of crew, that means something has to give ... or the crew work longer hours. And from what I have seen, they seem to work longer hours now than I care to imagine.

 

As I have said, I am sure if loads of people had voiced complaints at the end of a cruise via the feedback form to SB about too late dining hours, the dining hours would have been extended or have changed.

[frantic36]

I'm really not trying to be difficult here. I honestly just don't get it. Why are you all "moaning" when literally nothing would change for you?

 

 

We are trying to point out that we care about the crew and their working conditions rather then our own selfish wants and needs.

As ab21au mentioned it seems the majority of the passengers sailing on Seabourn are okay with this and realise that Seabourn can't be all things to all people.

 

Julie

[Roxburgh]

I'm suggesting management, staff and crew can be very creative when they want to be. Resources are fungible. Staff assigned to the Retreat nobody wants can reassigned elsewhere (I dare say more people want an earlier dining option than want the Retreat). Crew quarters probably has some excess capacity (they certainly had room for the temporary workers repairing Sojourn's deck). Etc. Maybe they can do it without overburden, maybe they can't. The fact is neither you or I know for sure.

 

But all of this is non-responsive to my question. Neither you or Chairsin or any of the other Amen chorus +1's have explained how adding just one 6pm hour to Colonnade while keeping everything else exactly the same would "change it from the way most of us who have cruised on it for some years are quite satisfied with." That's Chairsin's complaint - that somehow early dinner option advocates are demanding changes that would require Chairsin to change, to forego what is now satisfactory. Yet nobody has suggested any such thing in this thread. Dinner from 7 to 9 in any venue of choice would remain intact, just as it is now.

 

I'm really not trying to be difficult here. I honestly just don't get it. Why are you all "moaning" when literally nothing would change for you?

 

Let me just clarify a few things:

 

1. There is no 'Retreat' on the O class ships so nobody can be reassigned.

 

2. Remember that it is not just wait staff who need to be reassigned. All the kitchen and other support staff need to start an hour earlier too.

 

3. You can already eat at 6pm at the TK Grill.

 

4. When I was on Sojourn in Feb/March, work on the deck was performed by crew and not temporary workers.

[Robisan]

But to me the more troubling part of this thread is the notion of persons who have yet to cruise on Seabourn trying to change it from the way most of us who have cruised on it for some years are quite satisfied with.

That statement is factually and rhetorically false. I'm interested if anyone wants to defend it or has thoughts on it. It's not a statement concerning staffing issues, which is just a distraction.

[Roxburgh]

That statement is factually and rhetorically false. I'm interested if anyone wants to defend it or has thoughts on it. It's not a statement concerning staffing issues, which is just a distraction.

 

I don't need to defend anything. I'm quite happy with the current arrangements.

[2SailingNomads]

Right. And contrary to Chairsin's claim, nobody on this thread wants to disturb what you're happy with. That's the point.

 

I'm not sure how Roxburg's comment is contrary to Chairsin's - and many others, what is currently in-place is what most, but obviously not all prefer.

 

You also need to keep in mind that it is a well orchestrated production every evening on the part of the crew. There is often an event that occurs pre-dinner, whether in the Grand Salon or on-deck which may start around 6 p.m. (or 6:30 if the Captain's or Club reception). The crew are needed to staff those events, along w/ crew in the Club and Observation bar. Other crew are setting up for dinner at the various venues. Before then, they may get a little time to rest plus time for them to have their dinner. So as others have suggested taking crew from other venues to staff an early opening for what would likely be a very small number of people, would detract from the service in venues where the majority of the passengers would be.

[Robisan]

So, for the sake of clarity, when was your most recent Seabourn cruise?

Next month will be my first. Also for the sake of clarity, I'm not one of the people in this thread asking for an earlier option, though I've stated I might avail myself if it was an option.

[jenidallas]

One other issue that has not been brought up yet is the food handling "hold time". Seabourn has a strict hour "prep to trash" rule for foods with spoilage to prevent food-borne illnesses. For most dishes, that time is 4 hours That means that anything this is prepared at 5 pm has to go into the trash at 9 pm. Many of the evening's dishes have to be pre-prepared in full (souffles, salads, desserts) or in part (appetizers, entrees) that will be assembled later.

 

The narrower serving hours at most venues allow them to maximize utilization of their kitchen staff by carefully timing the preparation of dishes. If you ever do a galley tour, stop and look at the lefthand wall as you pass through... everything is planned out to a precise science: what order items are prepped in, who does what, how much of each item is prepared, etc.

 

The chef has explained us before, for example, that lunchtime in the Colonade and Patio Grill have very precise times at which certain things (like potato salad) get made so that they can minimize hold time and maximize serving time within their sanitation standards.

 

If you've ever done a galley tour on a mass market line, the food operation is much different. Walk through the galley at 2 pm and they'll already be preparing most of the evenings dinner plates and putting them into large industrial storage racks... hundreds of salads, dozens of appetizer plates, etc. All pre-set and ready to have the hot item added or croutons sprinkled on or whatever "finishing" that corporate has dictated.