Theft

[Hlitner]

34 minutes ago, ducklite said:

My biggest pet peeve in hotels or on ships is housekeepers who do leave doors open to run down the hall for something or to have a chat with their friend who is cleaning the room next door.

 

I've returned to find my hotel room left open with no one around a few times.  Once in one of the finest hotels in San Francisco.  I was quite annoyed.  Fortunately I had my camera with me, and we had nothing other than some clothing, toiletries, and a few odds and ends like a book and travel alarm in the room.  As I told the GM, what if a man had come into the room and closed the door, and I was traveling alone and entered my room to find him waiting?  That would have been a multi-million dollar lawsuit settlement against them for their negligence.

 

I have no problem with housekeepers leaving doors open while they are in the room cleaning.  I do have a problem with them leaving the door open unless they are at their cart immediately in front of the door.  Otherwise the door should be closed behind them.  ALWAYS.

 

This is one of the reasons we like to rent self-catering flats when we travel.  No one comes in or out but us during the rental period.  

Even self catering flats have an inherent degree of risk.  Consider that there can be many people that have keys to that flat including the owner(s), management agency, any past renter (who could have easily made copies of the key), on site building management, cleaning company, etc.  As to the comment about hotels, most now have 24/7 video cameras that cover all the hallways and are recorded.  Security folks can later review and see who has entered any room.  Many newer hotel locks also have memories (or are connected to a central CPU) that keep track of room entry.  We have been on some cruise ships that also have cameras in the corridors (and just about everywhere else on the ship) and also been on ships that did not seem to have cameras in the corridors.  Call it a hobby, game,  or just crazy but I have this habit of looking around for cameras.  This does not mean I see hidden cameras, but many are readily visible (especially on ships and in hotels).

 

By the way, we are also big fans of renting self catering flats when we travel in Europe.  For us it is less about security and more about other advantages such as much more space, a decent kitchen, desired location, price, etc.

 

Hank

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

 

OK, then how many?
 

And how many get solved?

 

And how many turn out to NOT be thefts?

 

There's no way to put a number on it right now.  Cruise lines only recently starting reporting their crime stats to the FBI and they're still not very good at it.  I don't see it a whole lot in my current location but when I was in Key West, we saw it maybe 2-3 times a week.  Solved?  I'd say about 30%, but that's just a guess.  

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Public area thefts I can see.  Those are other passengers grabbing things.

 

In room thefts are unlikely to be other passengers, unless you or staff are VERY careless about leaving doors open.

 

In most hotels, if they are cleaning my room and I want to get it, they close the door and make me unlock it.  On the ship, they tend to recognize that this is my room.

 

You'd be surprised how many room attendants open several doors at a time when cleaning their block of rooms.  Nowadays, room attendants have upwards of 20+ rooms and they tend to work on several at a time.  Passenger walks by, looks in open room, sees iPad sitting on desk, goes in and takes it.  It happens.  

[ducklite]

22 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Even self catering flats have an inherent degree of risk.  Consider that there can be many people that have keys to that flat including the owner(s), management agency, any past renter (who could have easily made copies of the key), on site building management, cleaning company, etc.  As to the comment about hotels, most now have 24/7 video cameras that cover all the hallways and are recorded.  Security folks can later review and see who has entered any room.  Many newer hotel locks also have memories (or are connected to a central CPU) that keep track of room entry.  We have been on some cruise ships that also have cameras in the corridors (and just about everywhere else on the ship) and also been on ships that did not seem to have cameras in the corridors.  Call it a hobby, game,  or just crazy but I have this habit of looking around for cameras.  This does not mean I see hidden cameras, but many are readily visible (especially on ships and in hotels).

 

By the way, we are also big fans of renting self catering flats when we travel in Europe.  For us it is less about security and more about other advantages such as much more space, a decent kitchen, desired location, price, etc.

 

Hank

You are right, there are people with keys.  We don't travel with anything of value except cell phones which we carry with us.  We also like the kitchen, laundry, and more space to kick around in. 🙂   I still think it's more secure than many hotels--particularly the older ones in Europe where they still hand you an actual key.

[ducklite]

30 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If I don't want someone entering my hotel room I will put up the Do Not Disturb sign. So far it has been respected😀 though I have a friend who said she did that once in Dubai and came back to find her room cleaned😆.

I have had them enter and clean my room when the sign has been up many, many times.  Some resorts and longer stay hotels have policies that they will enter your room regardless every 48-72 hours.  

[ducklite]

15 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

You'd be surprised how many room attendants open several doors at a time when cleaning their block of rooms.  Nowadays, room attendants have upwards of 20+ rooms and they tend to work on several at a time.  Passenger walks by, looks in open room, sees iPad sitting on desk, goes in and takes it.  It happens.  

Exactly.  I have no doubt that this type of thing happens more often than we'd like to think about.

[dogs4fun]

21 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

Passenger walks by, looks in open room, sees iPad sitting on desk, goes in and takes it.  It happens.

I'm sure it does but wouldn't this be seen/recorded on the hallway camera?

Edited December 30, 2019 by dogs4fun

[ilikeanswers]

10 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I still think it's more secure than many hotels--particularly the older ones in Europe where they still hand you an actual key.

 

I know It is a bit irrational but I too feel more secure with a physical key vs card locks. I just feel like computers are too easy to hack and all it takes is someone forgeting to update the software and suddenly there is a big hole in security😳.

[ducklite]

14 minutes ago, dogs4fun said:

I'm sure it does but wouldn't this be seen/recorded on the hallway camera?

Many, many hotels don't have hallway cameras.  Las Vegas is a notable exception.  I stayed in a hotel in downtown Austin last week.  No cameras except at the elevators.  Not all cruise lines have cameras in the hallways, either.

[sanger727]

16 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Theft on cruise ships is more common than many want to admit, or are willing to accept.  This thread has a lot of responses from people suggesting that because they've never been robbed, it must not happen....or it must be the OP's fault.  Well, I've never been the victim of a breaking and entering home burglary, but that does not mean it doesn't happen.  

 

Maritime criminal investigations is my field of expertise and the 2 most common reports I see from cruises are theft and assaults.  

 

You can do everything right and still have a crime committed against you; but the simple fact is that in many many case, the victim could have done things to avoid being a victim. If the OP has been a victim twice, then yes, I think it's highly likely the OP is doing things that open themselves up to this. It isn't that hard to take basic security measures to protect yourself and your things: keeping you cabin door closed; keeping valuables in the safe; keeping your things in drawers and closets so out of sight of an open door; this might be to an extreme but we do keep our do not disturb up and only take it down every 2-3 days so they can clean because this reduces people coming in and out of the cabin; not leaving items around the ship unattended... 

 

Where I live the most commonly reported crime is theft from vehicles. And it is by far the easiest crime to prevent. If you don't leave your purse/phone in your unattended vehicle, it won't be stolen from your vehicle.  While I have seen a few reports of items being stolen from a room, it's never items that were secured in the safe. I put as much in the safe as I can fit including prescription meds, all electronics, headphones, chargers, and costume jewelry (so that it wouldn't be confused with fine jewelry). Anything that is nice but too large for the safe gets hidden. My DH bought me an expensive purse on a cruise once and we hid it under the bed to avoid someone spotting it. 

[clo]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

By the way, we are also big fans of renting self catering flats when we travel in Europe.  For us it is less about security and more about other advantages such as much more space, a decent kitchen, desired location, price, etc.

 

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

We recently completed a cruise in Buenos Aires and stayed in an airbnb for a few days. We'll do a Norwegian coastal cruise in the spring and have another airbnb in Paris. In the coming weeks/months we're going to be considering if we're really cruise people. As someone here mentioned, maybe it's more a floating hotel for us.

[Hlitner]

23 minutes ago, clo said:

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

We recently completed a cruise in Buenos Aires and stayed in an airbnb for a few days. We'll do a Norwegian coastal cruise in the spring and have another airbnb in Paris. In the coming weeks/months we're going to be considering if we're really cruise people. As someone here mentioned, maybe it's more a floating hotel for us.

For us it is not an "either - or" between cruises and land trips.  We enjoy both and often try to combine cruises with extended land trips.  Next year we have that kind of combined trip to both Europe and Asia.  We also like using repo cruises to get between the USA and wherever we want to go for a land trip.  It is the best of all worlds :).  We have similar feelings when it comes to cruise lines/ships.  We like many cruise lines and see no reason to be "loyal" to one particular line, itinerary, ship, etc.  Variety keeps it all young and exciting.  After more then 40 years of extensive cruising and travel we still look forward to each trip and cruise.

 

Hank

[Aquahound]

9 hours ago, dogs4fun said:

I'm sure it does but wouldn't this be seen/recorded on the hallway camera?

 

Depends on the ship.  Older ships either have no cameras in the hallways or old fixed cameras with very poor imagery.  Newer ships have much better cameras.  I remember being particularly impressed with footage from Oasis of the Seas.  They use cameras from a company called Oncam, which record 360 degrees and are very good quality.    

[ilikeanswers]

If you do think something was stolen from you on a cruise ship and you want to claim from insurance who do you make the theft report to? Usually you are suppose to get a police report but since there is no police on a cruise ship what sort of official document can you get? 

[Aquahound]

12 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

If you do think something was stolen from you on a cruise ship and you want to claim from insurance who do you make the theft report to? Usually you are suppose to get a police report but since there is no police on a cruise ship what sort of official document can you get? 

 

Ship's security does a report. 

[SRF]

22 hours ago, ducklite said:

My biggest pet peeve in hotels or on ships is housekeepers who do leave doors open to run down the hall for something or to have a chat with their friend who is cleaning the room next door.

 

I've returned to find my hotel room left open with no one around a few times.  Once in one of the finest hotels in San Francisco.  I was quite annoyed.  Fortunately I had my camera with me, and we had nothing other than some clothing, toiletries, and a few odds and ends like a book and travel alarm in the room.  As I told the GM, what if a man had come into the room and closed the door, and I was traveling alone and entered my room to find him waiting?  That would have been a multi-million dollar lawsuit settlement against them for their negligence.

 

I have no problem with housekeepers leaving doors open while they are in the room cleaning.  I do have a problem with them leaving the door open unless they are at their cart immediately in front of the door.  Otherwise the door should be closed behind them.  ALWAYS.

 

This is one of the reasons we like to rent self-catering flats when we travel.  No one comes in or out but us during the rental period.  

 

That is a serious situation, and like you, I would bring it up to the management.

[SRF]

20 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I know It is a bit irrational but I too feel more secure with a physical key vs card locks. I just feel like computers are too easy to hack and all it takes is someone forgeting to update the software and suddenly there is a big hole in security😳.

 

The problem with a physical key is, it can be copied.

 

The electronic locks, are reset each time they issue a "key."  In many systems, it will invalidate the other keys.  So if you forget your key, and get a new one, then all the previous ones will not work, and only the new one will.

 

Also, the systems record who opens the door and when.  So they can see later, who actually opened the door to your room.

 

And finally, if you lose your card, it does not have the room number on it, unless most physical keys.   And if you stay in major chains, there may be several of that hotel in the one city, and the finder of the card doesn't even know which hotel to try.

[SRF]

21 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

There's no way to put a number on it right now.  Cruise lines only recently starting reporting their crime stats to the FBI and they're still not very good at it.  I don't see it a whole lot in my current location but when I was in Key West, we saw it maybe 2-3 times a week.  Solved?  I'd say about 30%, but that's just a guess.  

 

Also, a reported theft does not mean a theft.

 

If someone can't find something, they assume it is stolen.  Not misplaced.  Not fallen behind the dresser or under the bed.

 

So stats are going to be skewed towards reported thefts.  Unless you can solve the case, you do not know if a theft actually occurred.

 

And the fact that so many people here on CC report MANY cruises and even more hotel stays without theft, it is not that common.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

The problem with a physical key is, it can be copied.

 

The electronic locks, are reset each time they issue a "key."  In many systems, it will invalidate the other keys.  So if you forget your key, and get a new one, then all the previous ones will not work, and only the new one will.

 

Also, the systems record who opens the door and when.  So they can see later, who actually opened the door to your room.

 

And finally, if you lose your card, it does not have the room number on it, unless most physical keys.   And if you stay in major chains, there may be several of that hotel in the one city, and the finder of the card doesn't even know which hotel to try.

 

I am aware physical keys can be copied but I think it takes far more work than breaking into an electronic lock so I feel electronic locks would be more targeted. From what I have heard hotels are bit lax when running software updates and making sure security patches are installed. A lot of hotel WiFi have little to no security and the higher end hotels love to use Internet of Things products which having no protections against hacking have become stepping stones to break into networks. A bank has probably triple the cyber security of any hotel and yet all it took was an email someone opened to download software for a hacker ring to have access to the whole system. A hotel would be an incredibly soft target so it probably wouldn't be difficult for someone to gain access to the system so somone else could go in opening any door they want without leaving a record. 

[ducklite]

17 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I am aware physical keys can be copied but I think it takes far more work than breaking into an electronic lock so I feel electronic locks would be more targeted. From what I have heard hotels are bit lax when running software updates and making sure security patches are installed. A lot of hotel WiFi have little to no security and the higher end hotels love to use Internet of Things products which having no protections against hacking have become stepping stones to break into networks. A bank has probably triple the cyber security of any hotel and yet all it took was an email someone opened to download software for a hacker ring to have access to the whole system. A hotel would be an incredibly soft target so it probably wouldn't be difficult for someone to gain access to the system so somone else could go in opening any door they want without leaving a record. 

Difference being that hackers typically don't have a physical presence with their thefts.  It's far less risky to be sitting in Russia or China and stealing credit card numbers, then selling them on the dark web so people can use them to make burn credit cards to be used a few times and then destroyed.  Often they are used for online orders which are shipped to an address other than the person placing the order and then porch pirated.

[ilikeanswers]

3 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Difference being that hackers typically don't have a physical presence with their thefts.  

 

Most hackers are part of organised crime syndicates and the syndicates have people on the ground to do the physical thieving. The reality is that hotel or rental apartments statistically the chances of being robbed are actually pretty low. Tourist areas tend to be lower in crime than other areas of the same city. In fact more people steal from hotels than get robbed at hotels 😂. So like I said it is an irrational fear. 

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

And the fact that so many people here on CC report MANY cruises and even more hotel stays without theft, it is not that common.

 

Common is a relative term when it comes to crime and in the world of crime stats, theft/larceny is the most common property crime in the entire World.  Because cruise ships are a microcosm of a larger world, it only stands to reason that theft is also the most common crime on cruise ships.  So yes, I would most certainly say it is common.    

 

Part of the reason theft is common upon tourists is because they are either unaware of their surroundings due to their relaxed state of mind, of they simply choose to be ignorant.  "It's never happened to me so it must not be common" is the ignorant path.   

[iancal]

We are fortunate. In years, decades, of frequent travel we have never had anything stolen.

 

We are careful to leave valuables at home...jewelry, watches etc.   We have inexpensive jewelry items that we use specifically when travelling.  If they do get lost of stolen there is no issue.

 

What we do see is an amazing amount of carelessness at home and while traveling.  Whether it be purses left open in Costco shopping carts or purses/bags placed beside fountains in Europe while someone takes a happy family snap.  Or pursed and bags hung on the back of chairs in a busy restaurant. And on cruise ships.

 

 

We believe the trick is to take away as much temptation as possible so whenever possible we keep things locked up.  It is a habit as much to protect our items as to preclude us from misplacing them.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 12/30/2019 at 7:13 AM, Aquahound said:

 

There's no way to put a number on it right now.  Cruise lines only recently starting reporting their crime stats to the FBI and they're still not very good at it.  I don't see it a whole lot in my current location but when I was in Key West, we saw it maybe 2-3 times a week.  Solved?  I'd say about 30%, but that's just a guess.  

 

If it is not solved, how do you know something was really stolen, as compared to lost, or setting up an insurance scam?

 

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If it is not solved, how do you know something was really stolen, as compared to lost, or setting up an insurance scam?

 

 

Because in my line of work, you get to know people and their behaviors and non verbal expressions pretty well.  It's not fool-proof, but when you've done this long enough, you get pretty good at sensing sincerity vs deception.  Plus, most of the things that are reported stolen are barely covered by a deductible, if at all. 

 

For example, cameras are one of the items most stolen on ships.  A person who has their digital camera stolen tends to be more concerned about the pictures.  A person who is being deceptive tends to put more emphasis on the value of the camera, even if only a couple hundred bucks.  Of course, I'm not referring to high-end cameras with this example. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Aquahound