Theft

[MicCanberra]

we have never had anything stolen on a cruise ship and that includes leaving money on the lounge for the entire day and the cabin was cleaned while we were in port. We have found many items though which were all handed to Guest services, some items of value, never sure if they ever found their original owners.

[George C]

32 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

we have never had anything stolen on a cruise ship and that includes leaving money on the lounge for the entire day and the cabin was cleaned while we were in port. We have found many items though which were all handed to Guest services, some items of value, never sure if they ever found their original owners.

When my ring went “missing” a security officer and staff from ncl searched our cabin and said there was no ring, we then searched room again , found someone class ring a small amount of money and other jewelry, this was many years ago , we no longer sail ncl, did turn in ring and stuff to front desk doubt they ever did anything. 

[MicCanberra]

I have found that sometimes things disappear and then reappear again, like magic?

Although my wife has another theory.

[SRF]

On 12/31/2019 at 9:16 AM, ilikeanswers said:

 

I am aware physical keys can be copied but I think it takes far more work than breaking into an electronic lock so I feel electronic locks would be more targeted. From what I have heard hotels are bit lax when running software updates and making sure security patches are installed. A lot of hotel WiFi have little to no security and the higher end hotels love to use Internet of Things products which having no protections against hacking have become stepping stones to break into networks. A bank has probably triple the cyber security of any hotel and yet all it took was an email someone opened to download software for a hacker ring to have access to the whole system. A hotel would be an incredibly soft target so it probably wouldn't be difficult for someone to gain access to the system so somone else could go in opening any door they want without leaving a record. 

All supposition, without any FACTS.

 

Think what you want, but hotels went to electronic locks for reason.  And considering the additional cost and maintenance (they have batteries that have to be replaced), it was not cheaper.

[ilikeanswers]

29 minutes ago, SRF said:

All supposition, without any FACTS.

 

Think what you want, but hotels went to electronic locks for reason.  And considering the additional cost and maintenance (they have batteries that have to be replaced), it was not cheaper.

 

I would assume cyber security experts know what they are talking about so I would think it was experience in the field and not just supposition but you are right in that it is for me second hand information since it is not my field of expertise 😳. 

 

As for why hotels use key cards apparently one reason is a great way to stop guests from sneakily extending their stay since the key card can be auto cancelled at the programmed checkout time 😂. Another reason like you said recording of coming and going of people and you can control who has access to which room and floors. The information is useful if there is any reported problems (especially if they are hoping to avoid liability) and if there is need to force your way into a room it is much easier with a key card than a physical key especially if they didn't make enough copies😜. Also the hotels where you need to put the key card in the slot to switch on the lights saves a lot in electricity costs when those rooms are not in use. I am sure there are many other reasons why this tech is useful to the hotel industry. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[SRF]

21 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I would assume cyber security experts know what they are talking about so I would think it was experience in the field and not just supposition but you are right in that it is for me second hand information since it is not my field of expertise 😳. 

 

As for why hotels use key cards apparently one reason is a great way to stop guests from sneakily extending their stay since the key card can be auto cancelled at the programmed checkout time 😂. Another reason like you said recording of coming and going of people and you can control who has access to which room and floors. The information is useful if there is any reported problems (especially if they are hoping to avoid liability) and if there is need to force your way into a room it is much easier with a key card than a physical key especially if they didn't make enough copies😜. Also the hotels where you need to put the key card in the slot to switch on the lights saves a lot in electricity costs when those rooms are not in use. I am sure there are many other reasons why this tech is useful to the hotel industry. 

 

1)  They have a master electronic key that opens all the doors.

 

2)  There is a master physical key that opens all the doors.  That is how they can open them to replace the battery if it dies.

 

And for 99% of the hotels where the key card is needed for power, you can use ANY card.  Including a key card from a different hotel or a business card.

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

1)  They have a master electronic key that opens all the doors.

 

You said it much more succinctly and technical than me 👍. 

 

1 hour ago, SRF said:

2)  There is a master physical key that opens all the doors.  That is how they can open them to replace the battery if it dies.

 

It is an interesting fact but I don't see that as a selling point.

1 hour ago, SRF said:

And for 99% of the hotels where the key card is needed for power, you can use ANY card.  Including a key card from a different hotel or a business card.

 

Yes but when they sold it to hotels it never occurred to the hotels that patrons would find a work around😆. However it also means when a room has not been booked none of the standby equipment will be drawing electricity and the cleaning crew can't accidentally leave the lights on, so it would still would save a lot of money especially for hotels in countries where electricity is expensive. 

[Joebucks]

Irrational or not, there comes a higher risk when you have valuables accessible, especially around people that may not have a lot of money. I can't even count how many times I ready about "$1000+ in the safe, some or all is missing" stories. Put that temptation in front of ANYONE, and you will see a mixed bag of results.

[clo]

On 1/1/2020 at 6:50 AM, SRF said:

All supposition, without any FACTS.

 

When people use words like "think," "feel," "believe," I kinda tune out. I'm pretty fact-based.

[sanger727]

On 12/31/2019 at 4:31 PM, Aquahound said:

 

Because in my line of work, you get to know people and their behaviors and non verbal expressions pretty well.  It's not fool-proof, but when you've done this long enough, you get pretty good at sensing sincerity vs deception.  Plus, most of the things that are reported stolen are barely covered by a deductible, if at all. 

 

For example, cameras are one of the items most stolen on ships.  A person who has their digital camera stolen tends to be more concerned about the pictures.  A person who is being deceptive tends to put more emphasis on the value of the camera, even if only a couple hundred bucks.  Of course, I'm not referring to high-end cameras with this example. 

 

 

I don't think it's necessarily about deception. People can easily misplace something and swear up and down they left the item in a certain place. Especially if you are primed to already think about theft you might jump to claiming theft, whereas if the same situation had been in your home you would jump to the items being lost.  

[NLH Arizona]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

Irrational or not, there comes a higher risk when you have valuables accessible, especially around people that may not have a lot of money. I can't even count how many times I ready about "$1000+ in the safe, some or all is missing" stories. Put that temptation in front of ANYONE, and you will see a mixed bag of results.

Makes you wonder if they lost it gambling and think the cruise line/hotel will reimburse them thinking it was really stolen.

[mayleeman]

7 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Makes you wonder if they lost it gambling and think the cruise line/hotel will reimburse them thinking it was really stolen.

I have tried many times to reclaim money lost in a casino, but, oddly, just lost more. Who'dathunkit?

[ed01106]

On 11/26/2017 at 3:21 PM, SFloridian said:

 

Do you think I would make this up?

Falsify?  No.

 

Misplace blame?  Yes.  

 

Last vacation when unpacking I realized I came home with three less socks, one less tee-shirt, and one less paperback novel and one less umbrella than I brought with me.

 

Was I a victim of theft  or did I misplace these items?  Either is possible.  

[mayleeman]

1 hour ago, ed01106 said:

Was I a victim of theft  or did I misplace these items?

 

Sound like a third possibility: highly efficient testing of a drink package...

[ilikeanswers]

8 hours ago, clo said:

When people use words like "think," "feel," "believe," I kinda tune out. I'm pretty fact-based.

 

But sometimes all you can do is think, feel and believe. Unless an experiment has been run on your exact inquiry you can only make an assumption based on adjacent facts🙄. So until an experiment comparing the two locks is done I can only think and feel that the electronic one is less secure due to other issues brought up by supposed experts in their field. Doesn't mean my assumption is right or wrong it is just the best I can do with the facts I have🤗. 

[Aquahound]

9 hours ago, sanger727 said:

I don't think it's necessarily about deception. People can easily misplace something and swear up and down they left the item in a certain place. Especially if you are primed to already think about theft you might jump to claiming theft, whereas if the same situation had been in your home you would jump to the items being lost.  

 

I was referring to the fraud part of the question posed to me.  Ref lost items...of course people lose things.  That's normal.  But it does not mean theft does not occur.  

[MicCanberra]

On 1/2/2020 at 1:50 AM, SRF said:

All supposition, without any FACTS.

 

Think what you want, but hotels went to electronic locks for reason.  And considering the additional cost and maintenance (they have batteries that have to be replaced), it was not cheaper.

Loss of keys (customers not returning them) can be very expensive.

[SRF]

22 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

You said it much more succinctly and technical than me 👍. 

It is an interesting fact but I don't see that as a selling point.

 

Yes but when they sold it to hotels it never occurred to the hotels that patrons would find a work around😆. However it also means when a room has not been booked none of the standby equipment will be drawing electricity and the cleaning crew can't accidentally leave the lights on, so it would still would save a lot of money especially for hotels in countries where electricity is expensive. 

 

The point of the first two was that it is no harder to get into an electronically keyed room versus a traditional key.  And traditionally keyed rooms have master keys also.

 

That is a staff training issue.  And no one with a brain would think that people would not figure out a work around.  Heck, in many hotels, they give me a second key just for the power receptacle.

[ilikeanswers]

42 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

The point of the first two was that it is no harder to get into an electronically keyed room versus a traditional key.  And traditionally keyed rooms have master keys also.

 

That is a staff training issue.  And no one with a brain would think that people would not figure out a work around.  Heck, in many hotels, they give me a second key just for the power receptacle.

 

Well I would think the fact you can program a key card and master key card on site is what makes it easier than having to go to an outside specialist the key cutter in order to make copies of keys. Everything would be controlled in house, I would have thought that would be very appealing to a hotel🤔. 

 

As for the electricity you are talking in hindsight. Yeah now it easy to say how stupid were they but when the technology was new and hardly used they pushed that selling point pretty hard and with hotels wanting to up their green credentials it seemed like an easy fix. You look at every invention in history and the one thing everyone missed was the human factor😆. 

[ducklite]

On 1/2/2020 at 11:27 AM, sanger727 said:

I don't think it's necessarily about deception. People can easily misplace something and swear up and down they left the item in a certain place. Especially if you are primed to already think about theft you might jump to claiming theft, whereas if the same situation had been in your home you would jump to the items being lost.  

About five years ago I was getting dressed in our hotel room.  I went to get my earrings and they weren't where I had left them on the nightstand.  I called down to the front desk and asked if maybe the housekeeper had moved them?  I was absolutely not accusing, as they were cheap costume jewelry and I made that very clear.  I just thought maybe she had moved them out of the way while she was cleaning. (We had taken a cruise a few months earlier and had a housekeeper who liked rearranging our belongings in our room every day which made me crazy!) 

 

The executive housekeeper came to my room and asked what they looked like.  I began to describe them, and went to show her about how far they dangled off my ear--and there they were.  I had already put them on.  Talk about red-faced.  Bottom line, things do get misplaced and housekeepers do move things around. 

[clo]

20 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But sometimes all you can do is think, feel and believe. Unless an experiment has been run on your exact inquiry you can only make an assumption based on adjacent facts🙄. So until an experiment comparing the two locks is done I can only think and feel that the electronic one is less secure due to other issues brought up by supposed experts in their field. Doesn't mean my assumption is right or wrong it is just the best I can do with the facts I have🤗. 

Oh, I hear ya, but I wish I would always preface a "think, feel, believe" with something like "I have no facts to support this but...."

[awhcruiser]

On 1/2/2020 at 8:42 AM, clo said:

When people use words like "think," "feel," "believe," I kinda tune out. I'm pretty fact-based.

Good to know,......

[ldubs]

On 1/3/2020 at 9:50 AM, ducklite said:

About five years ago I was getting dressed in our hotel room.  I went to get my earrings and they weren't where I had left them on the nightstand.  I called down to the front desk and asked if maybe the housekeeper had moved them?  I was absolutely not accusing, as they were cheap costume jewelry and I made that very clear.  I just thought maybe she had moved them out of the way while she was cleaning. (We had taken a cruise a few months earlier and had a housekeeper who liked rearranging our belongings in our room every day which made me crazy!) 

 

The executive housekeeper came to my room and asked what they looked like.  I began to describe them, and went to show her about how far they dangled off my ear--and there they were.  I had already put them on.  Talk about red-faced.  Bottom line, things do get misplaced and housekeepers do move things around. 

 

That is funny.   Mrs Ldubs once lost her sunglasses.  Yep, I found them perched on her head.   

[SRF]

On 1/3/2020 at 8:56 AM, ilikeanswers said:

 

Well I would think the fact you can program a key card and master key card on site is what makes it easier than having to go to an outside specialist the key cutter in order to make copies of keys. Everything would be controlled in house, I would have thought that would be very appealing to a hotel🤔. 

 

As for the electricity you are talking in hindsight. Yeah now it easy to say how stupid were they but when the technology was new and hardly used they pushed that selling point pretty hard and with hotels wanting to up their green credentials it seemed like an easy fix. You look at every invention in history and the one thing everyone missed was the human factor😆. 

 

You think the hotels did not have a key cutter????  

 

No, not every invention missed the human factor.  Now, if you change that to mention inventions that did not work as expected, yes, many times the human factor was not covered.

[ducklite]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

That is funny.   Mrs Ldubs once lost her sunglasses.  Yep, I found them perched on her head.   

I ran around for half an hour one day frantically looking for the sunglasses I thought I had lost at an outdoor festival before the gates opened.  My friend noticed something was wrong and asked me what I had lost. I told her my sunglasses.  She pointed out that they were not only on my head, but attached by the neck strap.  :::deep breath:::