Discrimination Against Non US and Canadian Citizens!

[iancal]

The last time we went to Turkey and did three in country flights the price on the major North American booking sites was about $600 for all three.

 

We booked on a Turkish site (that had an English version) for the equivilant of $220. Same airlines, same flights. Thanks to some good advice on a tripadvisor forum.

 

We booked an Australia/NZ direct with RCI Australia rather than in North America thanks to the ongoing cheapo cruising thread on the Oz page of this cruise critic forum. One person in particular was kind enough to not only give others a heads up but also gave us direction on the best way to book.

 

There is plenty of great info on the web about how to avoid discriminatory travel pricing. You simply have to google about and find it.

 

We really do not care about corporate presence. As a consumer we are not willing to pay thirty percent more for the exact same product. Most especially so when a close competitor does not follow suit. As a consumer, this is a hollow reason for significant price differences.

 

It pays to shop around.

Edited February 9, 2018 by iancal

[Tiggipaws]

Hello

 

Just to make one thing clear, I did not suggest or threaten to sue anyone. Just had a reply back from HAL

 

Thank youfor contacting Mr. Orlando Ashford.Mr. Ashford has reviewed your concerns and asked me to express his regret forthe disappointment you encountered.

 

Weunderstand that you are not pleased with our policies regarding cross-currencybookings, and we regret your discontent. Holland America Line’s InternationalSales Policy provides that guests should book through an authorized HollandAmerica Line sales agent in their geographic area, or directly with HollandAmerica Line. To be clear, the geographic area for any guest residing withinthe European Union is any country in the European Union, and this policy iscompletely consistent with European rules. Guests residing in the United Statesand Canada (North America), the European Union including the United Kingdom(the EU), and Australia will book in their local currency, although in certainareas there may be a choice of currencies. In North America, bookings may bemade in U.S. or Canadian dollars; in the EU, bookings may be made in Euros orBritish Sterling; in Australia, bookings will be made in Australian dollars.Guests residing in all other countries may book in U.S. dollars. Residency willbe determined based on a guest’s primary residence used for Mariner Societyregistration.

 

HollandAmerica Line and its agencies have invested significant resources and effort todevelop effective sales and marketing programs focused on consumers in thegeographic area that each agency serves. The International Sales Policy wasimplemented to ensure that the marketing and promotional activities of agencieslocated in particular geographic areas are appropriately rewarded to createincentives to continue those activities. We have licensed the use of our logos,trademarks and trade names to agencies only for use in particular geographicareas, and sales by agencies outside those geographic areas may violate HollandAmerica Line’s license. In implementing the policy, we recognize that someagencies have long-standing relationships with clients in various areas of theworld. We will honor bookings made by agencies for guests for whom they havepreviously booked Holland America Line cruises. Those agencies will need toprovide Holland America Line with evidence of such pre-existing relationshipand prior booking.

 

Again,please accept our apologies. We certainly hope that if you choose not to cruisewith us in the future, that no matter what cruise line you choose to sail, youexperience safe and enjoyable vacations at sea. Thank you again for taking thetime to provide us with your valuable comments.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Christine Ferris

SpecialAdvisor

Office ofthe President

[iancal]

Very nice mumbo jumbo memo that really says nothing. I do not care about their corporate structure. In fact, I would rather see HAl investing money bringing their older ships up to snuff or perhaps designing a customer oriented/friendly website. This letter is corporate double speak.

 

So, if you had the choice of spending say $6000 on a cruise or $8000 for the exact same cabin but with a nice letter like this what would you prefer?

 

I know what I would do and what we have done in the past.

[Despegue]

Just change your Mariners adress then to the US, invent if you must.

When booking, invent that you live in the USA.

You can always change it to your real residency later-on.

If using the HAL site, do this while using a VPN that puts you in the USA.

This is totally independant from the check-in and Security/immigration procedure by the way.

[iancal]

It amazes me that some people accept that corporate drivel like mothers milk to the point where they are regurgitating it.

 

This is all about pricing what the market will support-by geography. Sure, there are some local conditions that may cause slight differences but nothing more. This was certainly the case for the multinational firm that I worked for. That is, until the Internet and our customers forced us to have standard world wide pricing. Customers are a great deal more savvy these days.

[Tiggipaws]

Just change your Mariners adress then to the US, invent if you must.

When booking, invent that you live in the USA.

You can always change it to your real residency later-on.

If using the HAL site, do this while using a VPN that puts you in the USA.

This is totally independant from the check-in and Security/immigration procedure by the way.

 

Good idea, but I will have to ring them about the fcd, so I wouldn't be able to book online, it doesn't seem to give you an option for fcd on the payment page

[VMax1700]

Good idea, but I will have to ring them about the fcd, so I wouldn't be able to book online, it doesn't seem to give you an option for fcd on the payment page

 

And a FCD in one currency cannot be used for a booking in another currency.

If you have a Stg FCD you can only book in Stg prices.

 

Several times I have looked at booking using my cousins New Orleans address, but in the end the difference did not justify the effort and currency fluctuation risk.

[VMax1700]

Good idea, but I will have to ring them about the fcd, so I wouldn't be able to book online, it doesn't seem to give you an option for fcd on the payment page

 

You do need to phone to apply a FCD, but you can phone Seattle and not Southampton.

[bUU]

It amazes me that some people accept that corporate drivel like mothers milk to the point where they are regurgitating it.

It amazes me that some people think that the companies exists to serve them rather than their owners, and that companies should put the worst parts of every offering in big bold print and put the best parts of every offering in the fine print.

[Mosaic]

It amazes me that some people think that the companies exists to serve them rather than their owners, and that companies should put the worst parts of every offering in big bold print and put the best parts of every offering in the fine print.

 

I feel differently--- when the company is a service company or provides services.

[bUU]

I think we can agree that our best hopes as consumers is satisfaction, and ideally, delight. It seems to me that holding to assumptions about service that are inconsistent with the way service providers actually offer service would lead to a lot of disappointment: Recurring disappointment without relief, even. I have to wonder how well holding to such assumptions serves the pursuit of satisfaction and delight. We all want to live in an ideal world which is crafted for our own benefit, but unfortunately that's not the way things are. It seems to me that the best we can do is control what is actually within our control, and there's nothing that people have more control over (or at least show have more control over) than their own understanding of the reality they encounter and their choices with regard to how they react to that reality.

[*Miss G*]

And a FCD in one currency cannot be used for a booking in another currency.

If you have a Stg FCD you can only book in Stg prices.

 

.

 

That's actually not true. HAL will make the exchange in whatever currency you like. Example: my sister has a FCD in GBP. The PCC told me he could make the adjustment to USD if she decides to pay in USD. It was her choice.

[barriedavis]

I am a Brit, just back home in the UK following a recent HAL cruise. I used a USA agent who had never heard of this apparent HAL rule. There is a large USA agent which told me that they cannot book HAL or Princess for UK residents. They later told me they could if I paid them a booking fee of $100 per passenger. When I told the second agent this, they laughed and booked me with no problem. I cannot name the agents because of the rules of this site.

[*Miss G*]

That rule is so frustrating.

[Haboob]

The last time we went to Turkey and did three in country flights the price on the major North American booking sites was about $600 for all three.

 

We booked on a Turkish site (that had an English version) for the equivilant of $220. Same airlines, same flights. Thanks to some good advice on a tripadvisor forum.

 

We booked an Australia/NZ direct with RCI Australia rather than in North America thanks to the ongoing cheapo cruising thread on the Oz page of this cruise critic forum. One person in particular was kind enough to not only give others a heads up but also gave us direction on the best way to book.

 

There is plenty of great info on the web about how to avoid discriminatory travel pricing. You simply have to google about and find it.

 

We really do not care about corporate presence. As a consumer we are not willing to pay thirty percent more for the exact same product. Most especially so when a close competitor does not follow suit. As a consumer, this is a hollow reason for significant price differences.

 

It pays to shop around.

 

Cruises are "package holidays" under UK law and regulations. If a booking triggers those, it costs more

(on average) to provide the same cruise.

 

Whinging about "discriminatory travel pricing" between bookings under ABTA and those without is like

whinging about "discriminatory travel insurance pricing" because "premium coverage" policies cost more

than "standard coverage" policies.

 

TANSTAAFL ("There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch").

[RDC1]

The last time we went to Turkey and did three in country flights the price on the major North American booking sites was about $600 for all three.

 

We booked on a Turkish site (that had an English version) for the equivilant of $220. Same airlines, same flights. Thanks to some good advice on a tripadvisor forum.

 

We booked an Australia/NZ direct with RCI Australia rather than in North America thanks to the ongoing cheapo cruising thread on the Oz page of this cruise critic forum. One person in particular was kind enough to not only give others a heads up but also gave us direction on the best way to book.

 

There is plenty of great info on the web about how to avoid discriminatory travel pricing. You simply have to google about and find it.

 

We really do not care about corporate presence. As a consumer we are not willing to pay thirty percent more for the exact same product. Most especially so when a close competitor does not follow suit. As a consumer, this is a hollow reason for significant price differences.

 

It pays to shop around.

 

You may not care about corporate presence, but it makes a substantial difference to corporate legal departments, national regulatory authorities, and court systems.

[VMax1700]

That's actually not true. HAL will make the exchange in whatever currency you like. Example: my sister has a FCD in GBP. The PCC told me he could make the adjustment to USD if she decides to pay in USD. It was her choice.

 

People (including PPC's) say lots of things, some factual some alternative facts....;p

On the FCD Document it states:

Terms & Conditions #4:

Future Cruise Deposit currency is non changeable. The currency of the Future Cruise Deposit and the booking it is applied, must match.

[kazu]

People (including PPC's) say lots of things, some factual some alternative facts....;p

On the FCD Document it states:

Terms & Conditions #4:

Future Cruise Deposit currency is non changeable. The currency of the Future Cruise Deposit and the booking it is applied, must match.

 

It does say that. But one call to the Mariner's Society with the explanation I have a useless US $ FCD got it changed so fast to Canadian that your head would spin.

 

I'm not the only one who has had this done and, in fact, I didn't know it was possible until I saw a post here and got help from a kind CC member, sapper1. All I did was call and ask what I could do. It was switched very quickly. Easy as pie.

 

I was very grateful as basically that would have been an FCD I wouldn't want to use.

[iancal]

Bottom line for us...if we have a choice between booking for $8000. or booking for $6000. which one do you think we will select?

 

Correct, door number 2. We could care less where we book with that sort of delta. The hocus pocus explanations are simply not worth a $2000 premium to us. Booking outside of our country of residence is not a big deal to us.

[Haboob]

Bottom line for us...if we have a choice between booking for $8000. or booking for $6000. which one do you think we will select?

 

Correct, door number 2. We could care less where we book with that sort of delta. The hocus pocus explanations are simply not worth a $2000 premium to us. Booking outside of our country of residence is not a big deal to us.

 

I'd likely choose Door #2 as well. I'd just not pretend that the same thing was behind both doors.

[bUU]

It's easy to for us to claim and hold to that before something goes wrong. The real test for us is whether we accept the consequences of that choice when things go wrong, when we would be forced to incur loses and detriments due to circumstances for which those who chose the assured option would be covered.

 

How many times in these forums has an American posted a rant about how their vacation was ruined by such circumstances, shrilly exclaiming that the cruise line should compensate them even though what occurred was within the parameters of normal variability of cruises?

 

This post may have been entered by voice recognition. Please excuse any typographical errors.

[sapper1]

People (including PPC's) say lots of things, some factual some alternative facts....;p

On the FCD Document it states:

Terms & Conditions #4:

Future Cruise Deposit currency is non changeable. The currency of the Future Cruise Deposit and the booking it is applied, must match.

I have been able to change the currency on my FCDs several times. One call from my TA and HAL refunds one currency to my credit card and charges out another.

 

I buy my FCDs based on the current US/Canada exchange. A year or two later, when I book a cruise, the currency exchange situation has often changed, so of course I want to book the cruise in whichever currency offers the best price. Since our cruises are booked up to a year and a half in advance it is impossible to guess which currency would be most advantageous to us at the time of purchasing the FCDs.

 

Fortunately, the ability to switch currencies on the FCDs easily means we don’t have to use a crystal ball when deciding whether to purchase them in US or Canadian dollars.

[Maverine]

Gesendet von iPad mit Forums

[navybankerteacher]

Discrimination can be seen a favoring some or disadvantaging some; it can be viewed as a bad thing or a good thing - depending upon the observer's point of view. Affirmative action - giving a previously disadvantaged individual preference is generally seen as a good thing, while not accepting some applicants because of their background is rightly deplored.

 

In the cruising context, a British subject can reasonably protest having to pay more for a specific cruise than a North American. Of course, if he is able to book it on a North American site and then something goes wrong, he might feel that the lack of protections/compensation is unfair if his neighbor, who booked on a UK site, is treated differently.

[cruisemom42]

It's easy to for us to claim and hold to that before something goes wrong. The real test for us is whether we accept the consequences of that choice when things go wrong, when we would be forced to incur loses and detriments due to circumstances for which those who chose the assured option would be covered.

 

How many times in these forums has an American posted a rant about how their vacation was ruined by such circumstances, shrilly exclaiming that the cruise line should compensate them even though what occurred was within the parameters of normal variability of cruises?

 

This post may have been entered by voice recognition. Please excuse any typographical errors.

 

Agreed. As an example, on the Viking Oceans board recently several cruises that were scheduled to call in at ports in Tunisia and Algeria were re-routed to avoid those ports. A good number of folks who booked that specific cruise did so because of these less-commonly offered stops. Once the stops were taken out and others substituted, it was simply a very average Med itinerary.

 

The UK folks had the opportunity to cancel and get their money back, FULL REFUND, apparently, because under the UK rules, the signifiance of the changes rose to the level of the cruise line not delivering the product that was booked.

 

This wasn't the case for folks who booked from the US. No refund for them.