abuse of Lifts

[Dorset Cruiser]

You’d be amazed. It happens all the time!

 

 

 

But no-one can tell if someone has a hidden disability [emoji848]

 

 

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[Josy1953]

Some very silly responses. Nobody is saying that some people don’t have hidden disabilities and everyone who is on a cruise ship has every right to use a lift whenever they see fit, disabled or able bodied. I just wish that those who lurk on these threads waiting to be offended could just accept that there is an added factor - and it’s called bone idleness. Now everyone is entitled to be bone idle on their holiday and it may well be the case that there are many many times more passengers with hidden disabilities on P&O ships than in the population in general, but the issue is that those who have no choice but to use a lift might just, on occasion, welcome a little more consideration and indeed adherence to the Captains request to give them priority. Nothing to pick a fight over really, but then again..........

There probably are more passengers with hidden disabilities on cruise ships than in the general population simply because their hidden disabilities prevent them from flying or driving long distances. My husband is one of these people and it upsets me that people with visible disabilities so often seem to assume that anyone else is simply idle if they choose to use a lift. I usually take the stairs when my husband feels unwell and takes the lift because I am fit and well enough and only use the lift if he is too unwell to be left but I rarely see the able bodied companions of visibly disabled people doing the same.

[heywood]

I posted earlier re my looking to book a cruise with P and O (I am not new to the company) and my feelings about some of the responses on this thread.

This is part of one reply to me:

“If your disposition is such that reading this thread (including the various comments which are clearly said with a tongue firmly in cheek) is enough to send you running for the hills, then I would strongly advise you against booking a cruise with P&O. Once onboard, you will find far more irritating things to make you wish you had never left the comfort of your own home!”

I am struggling to find the ‘tongue in cheek’ responses- other than the last sentence.

This is part of another reply:

“Therefore Heywood, unless you are a wheelchair user then you will doubtless find no problems at all with using the lifts.

However if this thread has made you aware that someone pushing a wheelchair will need the full depth of the lift to be able fit into the lift and you need to move aside for them, then perhaps it will have served its purpose.”

That’s rather patronising.

I have replied already but do want to stress that my concern with the thread is not the lifts; nor any disabilities whether hidden or not but the way people address each other on here.

As a point of interest, we have just returned from a Marella (Thomson’s) cruise, I am sure that will disturb some folk, but there were six lifts, yes six, within yards of our room plus others in different places. I never saw a queue, other than short delays when trips came back and those with disabilities took the lift at that point whilst others were asked to walk one flight of stairs.

[Selbourne]

I’m bored of this as it’s just going around and around in circles, so this will be my last post. I repeat that I am fully aware that not all disabilities are visible. I also repeat that absolutely anyone has every right to use a lift whenever they see fit. But it is naive in the extreme to believe that every passenger who uses a lift in preference to a visibly disabled passenger has a hidden disability and this old chestnut gets thrown up time after time.

 

A few weeks ago, we waited ages for a lift on Arcadia after muster. A group of 6 people, aged 30’s and 40’s, all got in a lift, even when a lot of disabled passengers were waiting - and had been for some time. Now it may be that all 6 had ‘hidden disablities’ but I’d bet a decent wedge of cash that they didn’t.

 

The problem with a wheelchair is that it takes up a load of space with the footrests etc and, as John was trying to explain, you need the full length of the lift. Whilst I do sometimes let my wife travel on her own and I use the stairs to meet her, it’s sometimes not practical to do so when trying to reverse in or out of a packed lift safely. Again, those who don’t have to use wheelchairs will be oblivious to these issues. When I do travel in a lift with her, I squeeze into the space between the handle bars pressed up behind her, which a stranger wouldn’t do!

 

Again, without doubting those with genuine hidden disabilities, the attitudes of some passengers are laid bare when it comes to assisted embarkation and disembarkation. It’s amazing how many passengers we see who march around the ship day after day and walk miles ashore in the ports, yet when there is some perceived advantage to be gained by assisted embarkation or disembarkation, they suddenly need a wheelchair and pusher.

 

In conclusion, I genuinely hope that those with hidden disabilities don’t find that they progress to full blown visible disabilities, especially if that results in being in a wheelchair, as life becomes a constant challenge and sadly, as evidenced in a very small way on this thread, an occasional battle.

[Strawberry field]

I am sad to say this thread almost from the start has degenerated into a bit of a free for all which is silly and unnecessary. Could we not just end this thread now? What's the point in continuing it? Everyone has different views and quite rightly they can voice those views but it's getting us nowhere.

 

I am beginning to think that the Cruise Critic forum is no longer the place it was or indeed where I want to be anymore. I came here to get help and now in turn I attempt to help others in a small way. So come on let's end this thread while we all still get along.........hopefully

[jeanlyon]

Sorry, but when I see reasonably young people jogging round the deck and playing tennis on the court, I think that is a good enough reason to surmise that they can walk up one flight of stairs. Selbourne is right, there is bone idleness and there is also very overweight, maybe that's a disability as well?

 

Our friend with the knee problem is 82 and still walks down 6 flights of stairs and up two, so I do think some people are really just very lazy.

[terrierjohn]

There probably are more passengers with hidden disabilities on cruise ships than in the general population simply because their hidden disabilities prevent them from flying or driving long distances. My husband is one of these people and it upsets me that people with visible disabilities so often seem to assume that anyone else is simply idle if they choose to use a lift. I usually take the stairs when my husband feels unwell and takes the lift because I am fit and well enough and only use the lift if he is too unwell to be left but I rarely see the able bodied companions of visibly disabled people doing the same.

I am not quite certain how my wife would get on or off the lift if I were to use the stairs? With only one good arm and a transit wheelchair I am struggling to see how that would work.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

so I do think some people are really just very lazy.

 

 

They are on holiday. Perhaps they want to be lazy.

 

 

 

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[I_r_a]

> this is the only [completely selfish] post on this thread.<

 

Ira

[brillo]

The lifts are there for anyone on board they are not only for people with disabilities, we are all on holiday.

[jay888]

Look everyone has paid there fare and the lifts useage is included in that fare for everyone. I have found that some wheelchair users can be very rude, pushing in, running over your feet and hitting you in the back of your legs. I find it very judgemental of people to say who or should not be using the lift.

[Josy1953]

I am not quite certain how my wife would get on or off the lift if I were to use the stairs? With only one good arm and a transit wheelchair I am struggling to see how that would work.

I am sorry if I offended you as I think that most people would not expect someone like yourself to leave your wife to struggle, my post was really about the family groups where one person is disabled but the 3 or 4 companions all push into the lift often stopping another wheelchair from entering. I can only hope that they never reach the point of needing assistance.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Sorry, but when I see reasonably young people jogging round the deck and playing tennis on the court, I think that is a good enough reason to surmise that they can walk up one flight of stairs. Selbourne is right, there is bone idleness and there is also very overweight, maybe that's a disability as well?

 

Our friend with the knee problem is 82 and still walks down 6 flights of stairs and up two, so I do think some people are really just very lazy.

 

 

 

How do you know all the young people playing tennis, jogging etc use the lifts [emoji848]. People might well be overweight, bone idle and very lazy but thats none of your business. Lifts are there for everyone to use.

 

 

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[NoFlyGuy]

I think it's patently obvious that there are people who, without any obvious signs, have mobility problems and therefore use the lifts.

Equally I'm sure there are many who could walk a few flights of stairs but choose not to do so - lazy? maybe. Annoying? Yes, I get frustrated sometimes but, as I can't differentiate between the two groups, I just take a deep breath and get on with my holiday - what use is an altercation except to ruin our day/evening and possibly someone else's who actually needs to use the lifts.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

Equally I'm sure there are many who could walk a few flights of stairs but choose not to do so - lazy? maybe. Annoying? Yes, I get frustrated sometimes but, as I can't differentiate between the two groups, I just take a deep breath and get on with my holiday - what use is an altercation except to ruin our day/evening and possibly someone else's who actually needs to use the lifts.

 

 

They are on holiday. They have paid for the use of the lifts like other advertised facilities on the ship. Why would that be annoying to you and make them lazy?

 

As you say what use is an altercation. You might be made to leave the ship.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

 

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[Warford Lady]

Having read all of this post I'm am at a loss for words at some of the judgemental comments on this post.

 

The bottom line is that lifts are available for all passengers whether disabled or not. Common courtesy to our fellow passengers would ensure that priority for lifts at busy times is given to those who are wheelchair bound or to those for whom using stairs would be a problem.

Unfortunately there lies the problem. Unless the disability is visible we have no way of knowing who amongst us has a problem.

Five years ago I was due to have back surgery two weeks after the end of my cruise. I was 57 at the time and looked reasonably fit. What my fellow cruisers would not have known was that periodically throughout the day I was experiencing excruciating bilateral sciatica. Some evenings on leaving the MDR I could hardly walk so to get to other decks, even just one floor, I had to use the lift. Other times when things were more settled I used to do my laps of the promenade deck and would use the stairs even if it was a bit painful.

I therefore might have been silently criticised by some passengers for using the lift if it was busy. As I didn't want to make a fuss it was not obvious that at that particular time I had a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[davecttr]

The lifts do get a lot of abuse, both verbal and physical. I was entertained on the old Thomson Dream by a man furiously stabbing the button on the lift. Bl**dy lifts are useless on this ship he barked. Why are you pressing the indicator light I asked, he was furious and continued to stab the light :p

[ohnonotmeagain]

Given that on a recent trip on Brittania, a woman on a mobility scooter came into the lift without any form of control and crashed into the lift wall opposite, I would now always stand to the side. I'm actually surprised that the lift still worked after...such was the impact.

[terrierjohn]

Having read all of this post I'm am at a loss for words at some of the judgemental comments on this post.

 

The bottom line is that lifts are available for all passengers whether disabled or not. Common courtesy to our fellow passengers would ensure that priority for lifts at busy times is given to those who are wheelchair bound or to those for whom using stairs would be a problem.

I totally agree with your second para, but not the first. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and just because we may disagree with them is no reason to disparage their views.

As a wheelchair user's carer I have absolutely no problem with anyone using the lifts, but I would like a little more consideration from some passengers. This is very apparent just after muster when only seconds after the Captain has requested everyone to give priority to wheelchair users, there is a first come first served scrum around the lifts. I do admit that I now try to ensure we are at the entrance to the Glass House, our muster station, so that I can be one of the first into the lift lobby. and I will use the first lift that stops, even it is going in the wrong direction for us, because I know that all lifts coming up to deck 7 will be too full for a wheelchair.

[Eglesbrech]

We all seem to have focused this discussion on the behaviour of other passengers.

 

Part of the issue is that P&O ships don’t seem to have as many lifts available in the right places as they do on other lines. Or perhaps is just feels like that because fewer people use them when the demographic on board is younger / fitter. The lifts on some ships are also much bigger so take more passengers at one time.

 

When ships only had 8 decks and all the public areas were over just 2 of them there was never such an issue. Now with 13decks on some there are fewer people who can make it up mostbor all of those decks without oxygen!

 

Perhaps the ships designers should be looking at this at day 1, which they failed to do for example on Brittania.

[eddie11]

At last, someone mentions the number of lifts available!

 

P&O’s provision seems very skimpy compared with other lines we have used. If there were banks of 8 (eg Norwegian Escape) one could be a permanent dedicated wheelchair lift and eliminate virtually all this angst. I seem to remember that the dedicated lifts were increased to two at embarkation, disembarkation and muster

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

At last, someone mentions the number of lifts available!

 

P&O’s provision seems very skimpy compared with other lines we have used. If there were banks of 8 (eg Norwegian Escape) one could be a permanent dedicated wheelchair lift and eliminate virtually all this angst. I seem to remember that the dedicated lifts were increased to two at embarkation, disembarkation and muster

 

 

It was mentioned ages back by me and others. I think P and O compare badly in this regard to Cunard and Royal Caribbean. They probably compare favourably to the ex Royal Viking Line ships that Fred Olsen uses. Within the P and O fleet Britannia seems to be a the main problem. On most ships forward and aft lifts are often better than midships. I always likes forward cabin for many reason.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

 

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[Bab5ie]

I take it you are all retired and so have no other stress in life but to worry about who is entitled to use a lift and who isn't. Chill out and enjoy your holiday, we have all paid for the privilege of using the lift if we want to.

[Etta1213]

I appreciated someone mentioning a wheelchair user needing the entire depth on an elevator. I probably have been guilty of hugging the back wall, not realizing the need, thinking i was doing the right thing. I LOVE that those with disabilities can cruise and would never purposely make their mobility more difficult! Welcome aboard to those who have extra struggles!!

[terrierjohn]

It was mentioned ages back by me and others. I think P and O compare badly in this regard to Cunard and Royal Caribbean. They probably compare favourably to the ex Royal Viking Line ships that Fred Olsen uses. Within the P and O fleet Britannia seems to be a the main problem. On most ships forward and aft lifts are often better than midships. I always likes forward cabin for many reason.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

 

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Quite correct Stephen and Britannia does seem to be the worst offender, it only has the same number of lifts as Azura/Ventura, 14 in total, but I am certain they are smaller, and all three of the big ship's lifts are smaller than RCI and Celebrity.

However if Iona follows the AIDAnova deck plans then it will have 20 lifts, in 3 locations.