Tender Unloading Accident on Maasdam

[cruising cockroach]

53 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The inverted bow is a way to increase the waterline length and hence the best hull 

 

The inverted bow seems to hark back to the era of early (British) dreadnoughts, though the first iron Dreadnought was British by definition.

 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, cruising cockroach said:

 

The inverted bow seems to hark back to the era of early (British) dreadnoughts, though the first iron Dreadnought was British by definition.

 

Yes, and you will notice how far aft the first structure above deck ("A" turret), allowing for the amount of green water that would surge over the bow in foul weather.

[CruiseDealSweeper]

Interesting, I was on this cruise and heard a completely different story. We were told from fellow passengers that there was a "medical emergency" on a tender headed from the port back to the ship and the tender had to emergency go back to shore for medical attention. I guess we were all misinformed.. 

 

The captain informed the ship of the tragic news over the ship intercom while we were eating a late dinner that night. 

 

The water was rough that day but I have tendered in significantly worse conditions with no problems (Last summer in Mykonos comes to mind). Sad this happened but the blame going out to the captain and others is unwarranted imo. I might post video later of the seas that day as I took a video as the tender went back to the ship. 

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

...........................

 

Surely agree that she is not a maritime beauty to behold.  But, that type of bow design--can't think of its name--is being used by other cruise companies as well.

 

..........................

 

 

 

AIDAperla is one

 

 

NCL's "Project Leonardo"

 

 

Virgin's cruise concept

 

We will see more in the future

[cruising cockroach]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

A Celebrity video describing the Magic Carpet says that when it is used as a tender loading platform, there would be a seamless walk from ship, on to the platform, to the tender:  no stairs.  Certainly would make the tenders more easy to use with those who are mobility challenged.

 

So I imagine the door in the hull is going to be relatively close to waterline if there are no stairs (maybe a ramp).  Hope the compartment around the entry way is well sealed.

 

Given the relative complexity and weight of the moving platform,  I would hope there is a conventional fold-up tender platform on the other side just in case it goes INOP.  More fun if it goes INOP at the bottom position which would make docking and rough seas sailing interesting.

 

90t seems to be excessively heavy, it's roughly equivalent in weight to 3 half hold hatches for some very large container ships that each have to span ~50' x 50') and have but not fully support ~40-50+ containers on top each of which can weigh ~10 tons or more loaded).  I can't imagine that platform holding 200-300 person (up to 25-30 t assuming 250 lbs per pax)

 

Fully expecting to see some news of a stuck platform and how it impacted passenger enjoyment on the Celebrity forum before long.

Edited November 16, 2018 by cruising cockroach

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, bEwAbG said:

 

Edge is the first in a series.  Apex is the next one...sailing in 2020 and featuring the same amenities (including the Magic Carpet).  Booking for that one opens at the end of this month.

 

Thank you for the information.  

[boards]

I think the responsibility of using the tender service rests on the passenger as much as the ship personal.   If the boarding process is going to be dangerous for me, I will not do it.  I have been on a few that if I had physical mobility problem, it would have been foolish of ME to attempt it.  So if the seas are rough and the boarding is hazardous for you, don't do it, but if you do don't the ship if you get hurt.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, boards said:

I think the responsibility of using the tender service rests on the passenger as much as the ship personal.   If the boarding process is going to be dangerous for me, I will not do it.  I have been on a few that if I had physical mobility problem, it would have been foolish of ME to attempt it.  So if the seas are rough and the boarding is hazardous for you, don't do it, but if you do don't the ship if you get hurt.

My goodness, do I hear correctly?  You mean somebody is actually suggesting Personal Responsibility?  I thought that was no longer politically correct.

 

Hank

 

 

[Nashna]

I'm sure we have all been on sailings where folks were boarding the tenders who should have been stopped by the crew.  I recall one rather large women who the crew struggled to get into the tender.  She got onto the tender, but tripped and ended up sprawled on some poor passengers lap.  He was very polite,  but you could see he was shaken up rather badly.  This is a safety issue for the passenger, crew and others who might be injured.   

[marluvs2go]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:58 PM, OlsSalt said:

 

Where did you hear what you are calling only a "rumor"? Any links ... not able to find anything in any other source either .....yet.

 

There is a passenger report from some time ago the Maasdam had to miss Cook Islands completely due to high winds.  Do you know what weather conditions they were facing.

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/events.html  this site confirms death and gives weather also

[voyageur9]

On 11/17/2018 at 3:57 PM, Hlitner said:

My goodness, do I hear correctly?  You mean somebody is actually suggesting Personal Responsibility?  I thought that was no longer politically correct.

 

Hank

 

 

In the U.S., courts have ruled that cruise lines are common carriers (like mass transit or airlines) which means they owe a special duty of care to paying passengers.

 

So, whether or not people should/should not take personal responsibility, the burden remains on the common carrier to insure the safety of the paying passenger. I realize every situation is different and I'm not drawing any conclusions about the responsibility or culpability in this incident, nor whether conditions for tendering were marginal.

 

But it's worth noting that there is a very specific legal burden on common carriers regarding safety which includes variables like weather conditions.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by voyageur9
typo

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

In the U.S., courts have ruled that cruise lines are common carriers (like mass transit or airlines) which means they owe a special duty of care to paying passengers.

 

So, whether or not people should/should not take personal responsibility, the burden remains on the common carrier to insure the safety of the paying passenger. I realize every situation is different and I'm not drawing any conclusions about the responsibility or culpability in this incident, nor whether conditions for tendering were marginal.

 

But it's worth noting that there is a very specific legal burden on common carriers regarding safety which includes variables like weather conditions.

 

 

The more relevant legislation is the Death on the High Seas Act, which limits the liability of a ship owner.  But both the DOHS and the common carrier laws place limits on liability based on "reasonable" care and caution, and "industry best practices".

[bcummin]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:35 PM, CruiseDealSweeper said:

Interesting, I was on this cruise and heard a completely different story. We were told from fellow passengers that there was a "medical emergency" on a tender headed from the port back to the ship and the tender had to emergency go back to shore for medical attention. I guess we were all misinformed.. 

 

The captain informed the ship of the tragic news over the ship intercom while we were eating a late dinner that night. 

 

The water was rough that day but I have tendered in significantly worse conditions with no problems (Last summer in Mykonos comes to mind). Sad this happened but the blame going out to the captain and others is unwarranted imo. I might post video later of the seas that day as I took a video as the tender went back to the ship. 

 

I think that this adds valuable information.

It sounds like the unfortunate lady may well have had a medical emergency.

 

Barbara

[Jokelady]

I was on that cruise till the 28th of October. The water was a bit rough on our 2 week sailing and we did not tender in Hiva Oa. I was told by friends that were on the sailing where this lady passed away that they did not dock in Hiva Oa again due to the waters. The previous sailing had issues getting to Easter island as well. This is a tragic accident and there are always risks when tendering... especially when the sea's are rough. It is the stormy season in French Polynesia at this time of year and we did encounter some rough seas during our cruise as did the cruise that this tragic accident happened on. Thoughts and prayers go out to this woman's family and to the fantastic crew aboard the Maasdam. To my friends that were on board this tragedy, you are in my thoughts. 

[OlsSalt]

18 minutes ago, Jokelady said:

.......The previous sailing had issues getting to Easter island as well. This is a tragic accident and there are always risks when tendering... especially when the sea's are rough. It is the stormy season in French Polynesia at this time of year and we did encounter some rough seas during our cruise as did the cruise that this tragic accident happened on. .......

 

The previous issue at Easter Island on the Maasdam was a one day delay at a port, long known to be problematic for tendering. Which passengers had to accept up front that we may not get to Easter Island at all.  It was clear tender safety would be the  primary concern.

 

Captain worked hard to rearrange the schedule and sailed away from the incoming storm. Once it had subsided we had two wonderful days at Easter Island, with no tender issues  and beautiful weather. Just pefect.  The captain had to re-figure the rest of the schedule to make up for that one lost day. That included the two "at sea scenic cruising" days to both Henderson Island and Pitcairn Island turning into a single day.

 

 We were all extremely grateful the Maasdam captain worked so hard to make our 2 day Easter Island stop possible. Reports from other cruise ships indicated some captains just sailed on and missed this port stop entirely. It is located 5 cruise days away from everything else, coming and going. 

 

During the night of the first day the ship had to go out to sea again and away from the island, not because of storms but because of a regulation to get out of the flight path for one of the few flights that land on the nearby runway. Indeed, they were right overhead of the tender docking area. We watched one take off from a delightful little restaurant on the hill above the port while enjoying Easter Island's fabulous  poisson cru. - fresh, fresh, fresh tuna in coconut lime marinade

Edited November 21, 2018 by OlsSalt

[Jokelady]

1 minute ago, OlsSalt said:

 

The previous issue at Easter Island on the Maasdam was a one day delay at a port, long known to be problematic for tendering. Which passengers had to accept up front that we may not get to Easter Island at all. 

 

Captain worked hard to rearrange the schedule and sailed away from the incoming storm. Once it had subsided we had two wonderful day at Easter Island, with no tender issues at all and beautiful weather. Just pefect.  The captain had to re-figure the rest of the schedule to make up for that one lost day. That included the two "at sea scenic cruising" days to both Henderson Island and Pitcairn Island into a single day.

 

 We were all extremely grateful the Maasdam captain worked so hard to make our 2 day Easter Island stop possible. Reports from other cruise ships indicated some captains just sailed on and missed this port stop entirely. It is located 5 cruise days away from everything else, coming and going. 

 

During the night of the first day the ship had to go out to sea again and away from the island, not because of storms but because of a regulation to get out of the flight path for one of the few flights that land on the nearby runway. Indeed, they were right overhead of the tender docking area. We watched one take off from a delightful little restaurant on the hill above the port while enjoying Easter Island's fabulous  poisson cru. - fresh, fresh, fresh tuna in coconut lime marinade

 

[Jokelady]

Hello OlsSalt

 

I hope you enjoyed the cruise as much as Peter and I did. I was really happy to hear you all made it to Easter Island. It was most certainly a great topic of conversation when we boarded in Papeete on the 14th of October.

 

See you again on the high seas soon!

 

Peter and Kathy

[Btimmer]

1 hour ago, Jokelady said:

Hello OlsSalt

 

I hope you enjoyed the cruise as much as Peter and I did. I was really happy to hear you all made it to Easter Island. It was most certainly a great topic of conversation when we boarded in Papeete on the 14th of October.

 

See you again on the high seas soon!

 

Peter and Kathy

Peter & Kathy,

 

It was good sailing with you on the 14 day leg after we completed the 34 day leg.  We especially liked the one LIDO dinner and conversation we shared.  Departing Papeete on 10/30 turned out to be a non-event and was a breeze compared to the reports I read from those who departed on 10/14. We're about to head out on another adventure and escape the cold and wet of the Pacific NWet.

[OlsSalt]

2 minutes ago, Btimmer said:

Peter & Kathy,

 

It was good sailing with you on the 14 day leg after we completed the 34 day leg.  We especially liked the one LIDO dinner and conversation we shared.  Departing Papeete on 10/30 turned out to be a non-event and was a breeze compared to the reports I read from those who departed on 10/14. We're about to head out on another adventure and escape the cold and wet of the Pacific NWet.

 

What made the PPE departure work better two weeks later - what airline,  what time departure, how and when did you get to the airport, how long to go through all the lines, was anything open at the airport, did you have a long lag time to fill between ship departure and airline departure with all your luggage? Did they actually provide comfortable seating?  Did you go to a nearby hotel for a day room.  (Phew)

 

 Thanks. 

[Btimmer]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

What made the PPE departure work better two weeks later - what airline,  what time departure, how and when did you get to the airport, how long to go through all the lines, was anything open at the airport, did you have a long lag time to fill between ship departure and airline departure with all your luggage? Did they actually provide comfortable seating?  Did you go to a nearby hotel for a day room.  (Phew)

 

 Thanks. 

I described the process in my blog which can be found at www.timmer2018polynesia.blogspot.com.

 

In short, we stayed two extra days in Papeete, we flew out on 10/30/2018 on the very first United Airlines flight (got the necklace to prove it) at 10:45pm.  We caught a shuttle from our hotel (Sara Nui) after doing a full day of touring to Tahiti Itti.  We got to the airport at 6:30pm just as the flight arrived and my wife and I were #1 to check in for the flight (quick and efficient).  We got to watch a terrific Polynesian dance show in the terminal being put on for the incoming inaugural passengers, breezed through security and immigration in under 10 minutes, and there was lots of typical airport seating at the gate with live singing and music, shopping, and a small cafe/bar. We chatted with friends and had a sandwich.  In the main terminal was a McDonald's but we didn't check that out.  There were also passengers in the waiting area for a Hawaiian flight that left a half hour later than our flight, but it wasn't overly crowded.   All in all, it was a wonderful experience departing Papeete and quite unlike what I've read for the departing passengers on 10/14/2018.  We're glad we stayed a couple extra days in Papeete to let the crowds disperse and it gave us a chance to do some more in depth touring of the big and small islands and exploring Papeete on foot.

 

 

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, Btimmer said:

I described the process in my blog which can be found at www.timmer2018polynesia.blogspot.com.

 

In short, we stayed two extra days in Papeete, we flew out on 10/30/2018 on the very first United Airlines flight (got the necklace to prove it) at 10:45pm.  We caught a shuttle from our hotel (Sara Nui) after doing a full day of touring to Tahiti Itti.  We got to the airport at 6:30pm just as the flight arrived and my wife and I were #1 to check in for the flight (quick and efficient).  We got to watch a terrific Polynesian dance show in the terminal being put on for the incoming inaugural passengers, breezed through security and immigration in under 10 minutes, and there was lots of typical airport seating at the gate with live singing and music, shopping, and a small cafe/bar. We chatted with friends and had a sandwich.  In the main terminal was a McDonald's but we didn't check that out.  There were also passengers in the waiting area for a Hawaiian flight that left a half hour later than our flight, but it wasn't overly crowded.   All in all, it was a wonderful experience departing Papeete and quite unlike what I've read for the departing passengers on 10/14/2018.  We're glad we stayed a couple extra days in Papeete to let the crowds disperse and it gave us a chance to do some more in depth touring of the big and small islands and exploring Papeete on foot.

 

 

 

Thanks, you did it right and looks like United might be running a more efficient and timely option. Yes, having to process so many of us on a departure Sunday at midnight definitely did not work well. But we are home and all of that was now forgotten - the mana generated by that cruise transcends it all.  My volcanic, top hatted moai with his white  coral eyes slyly smiles beatifically from his new patio perch.  Facing away from the sea.

 

I am surprised we have not had any more reports on CC about the InDepth programs on the subsequent Maasdam cruises. Hope they hold up through next year, when we both embark yet again on another exotic InDepth to Alaska, Russia and Japan - 2019.

Edited November 22, 2018 by OlsSalt

[bcummin]

The leader of our Dec 8/21 roll call is onboard ms Maasdam right now.  We have heard:

"Ron has decent internet on the ship, but cannot get onto Cruise Critic at all, or at least doesn't have access. 

Ron can receive emails satisfactorily at ifoundabuddy@gmail.com, but just hasn't been able to get on to any CC roll call. 

He doesn't know what is happening,  .  .  . "

Barbara

Edited November 22, 2018 by bcummin

[Btimmer]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Thanks, you did it right and looks like United might be running a more efficient and timely option. Yes, having to process so many of us on a departure Sunday at midnight definitely did not work well. But we are home and all of that was now forgotten - the mana generated by that cruise transcends it all.  My volcanic, top hatted moai with his white  coral eyes slyly smiles beatifically from his new patio perch.  Facing away from the sea.

 

I am surprised we have not had any more reports on CC about the InDepth programs on the subsequent Maasdam cruises. Hope they hold up through next year, when we both embark yet again on another exotic InDepth to Alaska, Russia and Japan - 2019.

We'll be with you on that cruise.  We're going all the way to Sydney.

 

The folks on the two week Polynesia cruise tended to think that this was just a holiday cruise like in the Caribbean.  There was not a lot of awareness of the EXC concept.  I voiced my concerns verbally to Peter (Director of the EXC program) in a private chat with him.  He could readily see the change in clientele and lack of interest in the EXC program offerings.  I noted to him that if they had not duplicated the two week leg in Polynesia, there would have been a higher percentage of cruisers willing to stay on to Aukland as it would be much more like an EXC cruise and repeating ports was not appealing to me.  But the full ship on two two week Polynesia cruises probably paid a lot of costs not covered on the 34 day segment.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Btimmer

[bEwAbG]

4 hours ago, bcummin said:

The leader of our Dec 8/21 roll call is onboard ms Maasdam right now.  We have heard:

"Ron has decent internet on the ship, but cannot get onto Cruise Critic at all, or at least doesn't have access. 

Ron can receive emails satisfactorily at ifoundabuddy@gmail.com, but just hasn't been able to get on to any CC roll call. 

He doesn't know what is happening,  .  .  . "

Barbara

 

If you're in touch with him, make sure he knows that the app no longer works, if that's what he's using. Just a hunch.  He should be able to sign in on any web browser.

[bcummin]

OlsSalt, you wanted to hear how things are onboard ms Maasdam.

bEwAbG, you asked me to share your hunch with Ron, who boarded Nov 11.

 

Ron gave me permission to share his responses:  “I tried to see if i could get on CC adequately.  I could read the message you gave me the link to, but it was difficult to read, and no way to respond to anything.  Just glad that I am reachable at least.

“Yes we are having a wonderful time on the Maasdam.  We hit our first rain today on a Sea Day prior to arriving in Auckland tomorrow.  But the weather prediction is for clearing tomorrow.  But they say they have been having bad weather in New Zealand, so we will have to see.  I am hoping the beautiful weather like we have been having will continue to the end of the cruise!!!!!!!!!!!  

“Yes, I haven't been able to get on Cruise Critic at all, or at least not well enough to try and put any entries on there.I can sometimes get on there but I can't reply to anything.    But emails are coming through just great, thank goodness.  So hopefully I haven't missed too much! 

 

“There certainly has been mixed stories about the 'accident.'  And we missed the port of Rarotonga, and probably related to the fact that is where the accident occurred.  The waters were not that rough, but what I heard was that the port people were not too excited about HAL coming back again.  Don't know the real story there, but we have had dinner with the couple that was sitting next to the lady who had been a bit disgruntled on the tender ride and was very anxious to get on the ship.  She actually jumped to the ship before the tender was totally tied up, and she almost made it but did not, before getting crushed between the tender and the ship.  Not a pleasant situation for anyone for sure.  But this couple was interviewed by the Coast Guard and all the authorities and they said it was absolutely all her own fault and was totally preventable.  

“I saw there was another mention and there was another incident in a tender, but it was a gentleman who had a heart attack so there was a medical emergency about the same time, but this was all before we got on the ship.  We did miss the first two tenders because of 'water conditions' but it has been beautiful sunny but hot since arriving in Papeete.  I was disappointed to have missed Niue.  

 

“The EXC In Depth Voyages program has been getting mixed impressions.  Some miss the production numbers.  There are some excellent lectures, but some of them are a very detailed on a very narrow content, so do not appear to be as interesting as others.  The tour information is great, because they are not pushing HAL's tours, but giving you general information about the port area.  Some evenings, there is no entertainment but a lecture and one night they had a game show.  I am finding we are spending more time in the dining room chatting with dinner guests rather than paying attention to what else is going on during the evening.  The ship seems deserted, even though they say there are about 900 passengers on the ship right now, but a lot of them are disembarking tomorrow in Auckland.  But I know there are a good number in CC going from Auckland to Auckland so they probably got a great deal.  Mostly locals.   But some of the talent has been extraordinary good, even if not as much as I am used to.  I guess time will still tell my decision as to exactly how I feel about it.  I certainly do not feel rushed to go from activity to activity.  There are no lines for anything, and we have not been bothered by tender ticket lines, which were very much a problem between Ft Lauderdale and Papeete.  I can hardly believe that there are even 900 people on the ship right now.    I would say everything about this cruise is more relaxed and no big hurry to get anywhere at all.  It doesn't seem to me that there is as much to do as previous cruises, but the  quality does seem impressive.  Tonight there is a pianist with his second concert and he was tremendously talented, and even the comedians have been funny, which is not my usual response to a comedian.  Lot of naturalists etc great chances for the expedition philosophy of some cruisers, but still don't see the purpose or roll of the zodiac boats but they are definitely in use now.  Heard an interesting discussion between several people, some of which thought it was phenomenal because they went to a rather deserted island near Dravuni Island and no one knew what they would see or find and the highlight was this huge spider they found.  And others said that it was a waste of time, and I feel a waste of money.  Especially when you can see the locals.  We took a local's boat ride around the island for $10 and certainly cheaper than the $169 to take the zodiac boat..    

“Tonight Cruise Critic has 11 people attending the Pinnacle Grill for dinner, and I found out for one of them it is their birthday, so I ordered a birthday cake this morning.  It has been a fun group, so I am looking forward to the next groups joining also.  Sad to see some of them leaving but know I feel many of the people that will be joining us for the next segment.  Everything is being handled in the specific segments, so it appears that we are at the end of the cruise tomorrow, even though we still have at least 3 more segments.  .  

“Looking forward to meeting you both.  All is well and enjoying ourselves and certainly not ready to be going home yet.  Ron”