Tender Unloading Accident on Maasdam

[Copper10-8]

54 minutes ago, mammy123 said:

I also saw this on Cruise Junkie.  They reported that it happened last Thursday.  Thoughts and prayers for her and her family.

 

If it happened, it happened on Wed, 07 Nov 2019. That is when MADM called at Avatiu Rarotonga, Cook Islands

[mrmac]

Sorry, yes it was last Wednesday, not Thursday, in Rarotonga. I don’t know why so many would question whether it happened or not. Captain came on the loudspeaker to let us know same day. We spoke to a witness, who was on the same tender and hadn’t gotten off yet, but had been speaking with the poor woman during the tender ride. Terrible tragedy for the woman and her family and all who witnessed it. Neither myself nor AussieWalker has blamed anybody for this accident so I cannot comprehend posts mentioning that the OP, me, blamed anybody.

[liamur14]

On 11/11/2018 at 7:21 PM, aussiewalker said:

mrmac said he was on the Maasdam. So are you calling him a liar?

I was also on the ship with mrmac. Captain announced her passing that night, but shared no details. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by liamur14
sp

[OlsSalt]

OP mrmac, who was on board and had talked to witnesses, wrote: 

A woman was killed Thursday on Maasdam, rumored to be from an accident stepping from the tender to the ship’s dock. Maasdam was in Rarotonga, Cook Islands at the time. Surprised to see no reports on CC yet.

 

---woman was killed

---rumored to be from an accident stepping from the tender to the ship's dock

--surprised to see no report

 

All we know to date is a woman died on board. RIP.  To report she was "killed" was perhaps a bit inflammatory?

Edited November 13, 2018 by OlsSalt

[doublebzz]

21 minutes ago, mrmac said:

Sorry, yes it was last Wednesday, not Thursday, in Rarotonga. I don’t know why so many would question whether it happened or not. Captain came on the loudspeaker to let us know same day. We spoke to a witness, who was on the same tender and hadn’t gotten off yet, but had been speaking with the poor woman during the tender ride. Terrible tragedy for the woman and her family and all who witnessed it. Neither myself nor AussieWalker has blamed anybody for this accident so I cannot comprehend posts mentioning that the OP, me, blamed anybody.

I'm not sure anyone is questioning whether a fatality occurred but rather the circumstances surrounding it.  Not for ghoulish reasons as one poster has stated, but, at least in my case, to gain knowledge of what exactly happened so that precautions might be taken to prevent a recurrence.

[Kruzer Zuker]

Very sad.  Didn’t even know tender accident was a thing.  

[mcrcruiser]

Because of this we decided that if the water  is turbulent for  tendering  ,we would stay on board & not risk possibility of injury . 

[Bill B]

19 hours ago, taxmantoo said:

The discussion on the safety of tendering always reminds me of a discussion we had at lunch one day a few years ago when invited by one of HAL's most experienced and respected Hotel Directors, no longer with the line.  He said, and I quote: "Louis, just look around the dining room; you can plainly see that approximately 40% of the folks here should not be on a cruise ship!"

 

He's right.

[dogo88]

21 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

This is not an "article" - it is a legal solicitation website. 

Then maybe this "article" is ok?

https://www.newsweek.com/elderly-passenger-dies-after-falling-cruise-ship-1212454

 

[broberts]

I'm always annoyed by people who seem to think they know vastly more about something than trained and experienced professionals. The "person" that opined  "The seas were very rough and it was debatable whether we should have been tendering at all," is a case in point. CC posting guidelines prevent me from expressing my thoughts about this "person".

[knittinggirl]

We've been on a few tenders that where we had smooth water on the way out, and the wind picked up returning to the ship. 

 

Two memories come to mind, the Maui tender I mentioned earlier where people were falling on the stairs.  We'd planned to return for another shore excursion, but after the rough tender transfer we chose to stay on the ship.  We made a note on our tour tickets, put them in the slot at shore excursions, but didn't get our money back.  They kept running tenders all afternoon, and we heard the return tender trips later were no picnic.

 

The other time was  Huatulco.  Same thing, smooth waters out.  Returning it took a lot of time to disembark to our ship because the wind kept pushing our little tender against the platform, until we heard something crack.  They tried both platforms, with no luck.  Then I started praying, and real soon after that, I saw them bring something that looked like a bumper pad out, and then they were able to disembark one person after another.

 

 

Nowadays, we get a wind report before trying a tender.

 

I chatted w/ a crew tender captain last year, and he said they must pass a test where they swim under the tender and come up on the other side.  Really scary.

Edited November 13, 2018 by knittinggirl

[Rowsby]

On 11/10/2018 at 8:16 PM, mrmac said:

A woman was killed Thursday on Maasdam, rumored to be from an accident stepping from the tender to the ship’s dock. Maasdam was in Rarotonga, Cook Islands at the time. Surprised to see no reports on CC yet.

 

Incredibly sad....

 

Thank you for letting us know.......

[Nashna]

Too often, posts on CC are automatically subject to ridicule by other CC members.  I fear that this is a result of the angry mob mentality that has gripped our society.   It benefits us all to be aware of the dangers of tendering in rough seas.  Thank you to the passengers who were onboard the Maasdam and reported this sad accident on CC.

[OlsSalt]

4 hours ago, dogo88 said:

Then maybe this "article" is ok?

https://www.newsweek.com/elderly-passenger-dies-after-falling-cruise-ship-1212454

 

 

Considering the lurid follow-up details in this "article" were provided by the same ambulance chasing law website, what do you think about this "article" and its sourcing material and intent?   However, the emerging details about this specific Maasdam incident are appreciated. The original CC post on this topic remains inappropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory under the circumstances. 

[sammiedawg]

37 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Considering the lurid follow-up details in this "article" were provided by the same ambulance chasing law website, what do you think about this "article" and its sourcing material and intent?   However, the emerging details about this specific Maasdam incident are appreciated. The original CC post on this topic remains inappropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory under the circumstances. 

 

What is inflammatory about the OP’s post?  What was inappropriate?  The OP and other onboard posters were quite restrained in what was said.  Thanks to them.  

Why continue to try to deflect the sad story.   A terrible thing happened.  I’ve read cruise law news for years and they report the good and the bad things that happen in the cruise industry.  Bad things do happen.  

holland America cheerleading knows no bounds.  

[OlsSalt]

6 minutes ago, sammiedawg said:

 

What is inflammatory about the OP’s post?  What was inappropriate?  The OP and other onboard posters were quite restrained in what was said.  Thanks to them.  

Why continue to try to deflect the sad story.   A terrible thing happened.  I’ve read cruise law news for years and they report the good and the bad things that happen in the cruise industry.  Bad things do happen.  

holland America cheerleading knows no bounds.  

 

Original post - a passenger was killed in a tender accident

Follow-up: a passenger died after a fall from a tender but  cause of death still under investigation

[cruisemom42]

40 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

The original CC post on this topic remains inappropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory under the circumstances. 

 

I have to disagree with your assertion that the original CC post was either inappropriate or unnecessarily inflammatory.

 

A woman was killed Thursday on Maasdam, -- verified by HAL's own statement.

 

rumored to be from an accident stepping from the tender to the ship’s dock. -- it's also been verified that such rumors do exist, so how is this statement of fact inflammatory?

 

Maasdam was in Rarotonga, Cook Islands at the time. -- also true according to HAL's statement.

 

Surprised to see no reports on CC yet. -- simple expression of OP's feelings at that time.

 

 

 

Seems to me to be in the same category as reports of persons overboard, medivacs, etc. that are frequently seen here. I think we can (and should) let the moderators determine what is "inappropriate" and "inflammatory". 

 

As to all the early head scratching on why this was not being reported, search engines often do a poor job of picking up news in odd locales if the 'local' news sources aren't intensively followed/indexed. It can take quite a bit longer for stories from the "Picayune Times" to appear in searches versus those from the Washington Post. In addition, news outlets may have delayed reporting while the family was notified of the incident.

 

 

 

 

[dogo88]

51 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Considering the lurid follow-up details in this "article" were provided by the same ambulance chasing law website, what do you think about this "article" and its sourcing material and intent?   However, the emerging details about this specific Maasdam incident are appreciated. The original CC post on this topic remains inappropriate and unnecessarily inflammatory under the circumstances. 

 

Clearly the incident was horrible. Whether the information in the articles is unnecessarily inflammatory under the circumstances is up to the reader. I took them as neither. Both the OP and the articles stated what had happened. 

[OlsSalt]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have to disagree with your assertion that the original CC post was either inappropriate or unnecessarily inflammatory.

 

A woman was killed Thursday on Maasdam, -- verified by HAL's own statement.

 

rumored to be from an accident stepping from the tender to the ship’s dock. -- it's also been verified that such rumors do exist, so how is this statement of fact inflammatory?

 

Maasdam was in Rarotonga, Cook Islands at the time. -- also true according to HAL's statement.

 

Surprised to see no reports on CC yet. -- simple expression of OP's feelings at that time.

 

 

 

Seems to me to be in the same category as reports of persons overboard, medivacs, etc. that are frequently seen here. I think we can (and should) let the moderators determine what is "inappropriate" and "inflammatory". 

 

As to all the early head scratching on why this was not being reported, search engines often do a poor job of picking up news in odd locales if the 'local' news sources aren't intensively followed/indexed. It can take quite a bit longer for stories from the "Picayune Times" to appear in searches versus those from the Washington Post. In addition, news outlets may have delayed reporting while the family was notified of the incident.

 

 

 

 

 

You always love arguing semantics, cruisemom. Do you see any difference between initially reporting a passenger was killed. versus a passenger died?

Edited November 13, 2018 by OlsSalt

[sambamama]

Not everyone thinks of the exact dictionary definition of a word when using it. I doubt the OP spent hours drafting the post and editing it. This is a forum and not a newspaper! Kill means causing the death of. Did the fall from the tender cause the woman's death? Yes, if she never went on the tender, she would be alive. Has the exact cause of her death been released from an autopsy result? No. Did the OP imply that HAL murdered her and was the post inflammatory? Not in my opinion. I think (and I am not the OP) that the OP was using the words killed and died interchangeably and was bringing information of a sad accident to this forum. A few people here sometimes are too interested in splitting hairs just to bash posts. 

[OlsSalt]

25 minutes ago, sambamama said:

Not everyone thinks of the exact dictionary definition of a word when using it. I doubt the OP spent hours drafting the post and editing it. This is a forum and not a newspaper! Kill means causing the death of. Did the fall from the tender cause the woman's death? Yes, if she never went on the tender, she would be alive. Has the exact cause of her death been released from an autopsy result? No. Did the OP imply that HAL murdered her and was the post inflammatory? Not in my opinion. I think (and I am not the OP) that the OP was using the words killed and died interchangeably and was bringing information of a sad accident to this forum. A few people here sometimes are too interested in splitting hairs just to bash posts. 

 

From what we learned so far, which admittedly remains very sketchy, there is nothing to to support your own conclusions on this matter -  "if she never went on the tender she would be alive".  Slow down a bit before picking sides.  Let HAL's investigation continue into this obviously tragic incident. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by OlsSalt

[knittinggirl]

I'm just wondering about Tendering.  In Bar Harbor, we saw a couple each being pushed in a wheelchair.  They were both using canes on the ship. One of them appeared to have a really hard time walking even with the cane.   I didn't want to embarrass them by appearing too noisy.

 

How exactly do they get people in wheelchairs onto the tender?   I didn't see a ramp.    Does the crew lift them wheelchair and all onto the tender?

 

Before my hip replacement, when I needed a wheelchair for embarking, they said it wouldn't be available in ports of call.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

 

From what we learned so far, which admittedly remains very sketchy, there is nothing to to support your own conclusions on this matter -  "if she never went on the tender she would be alive".  Slow down a bit before picking sides.  Let HAL's investigation continue into this obviously tragic incident. 

 

Facts are only sketchy because the cruise line would rather not release anything about the incident. It would love a delay in the release of any findings until the incident is well past and interest in the outcome has waned.

 

I agree that a rush to judgement is wrong and not useful. But trusting a cruise line to forgo self interest in favor of prompt disclosure is unrealistic. 

[VMax1700]

Cook Island News recently published online:

 

http://www.cookislandsnews.com/national/local/item/71306-cruise-ship-death-revealed

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

You always love arguing semantics, cruisemom. Do you see any difference between initially reporting a passenger was killed. versus a passenger died?

 

I could be a curmudgeon and say that yes, to put a fine point on it, there has traditionally been a distinction between saying these two things.

 

HOWEVER, in mitigation, I offer that the use of 'killed' is also modified by the way in which it is used.  It is one thing to say "He was killed by the shooter." (clear implication of blame), and it is something entirely different to say "He was killed in a car accident."  (no clear implication of blame).

 

I think it is a bit silly to try to split hairs on this. It's not a court of law nor the Harvard Review. As stated by someone else, it was someone writing informally and colloquially, as is common custom on message boards.