I Thought Celebrity's Changes Were Driven By Changing Demographics - Not True

[mnocket]

4 hours ago, Blockschip said:

Number of embarkations from US ports in 2016 was 11.6 million according to Statistica. US pop was 323.4 million. So, 3.6%. Assuming all embarkations are US citizens, which they are not. And a number of people cruise more than once a year. So, probably closer to 2.5% to 3%. 

OK I was just taking the high end or your estimate.  My point however was that this was per year. Your statement...

"as of two years ago only 3 to 5% of all Americans have taken a cruise"  is incorrect. I was just pointing out that the correct statistic is that 33% of all Americans have taken a cruise.

[RDC1]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

OK I was just taking the high end or your estimate.  My point however was that this was per year. Your statement...

"as of two years ago only 3 to 5% of all Americans have taken a cruise"  is incorrect. I was just pointing out that the correct statistic is that 33% of all Americans have taken a cruise.

Another interesting statistic in 2014 (the only year that I can find this data for) 38% of all cruisers boarding during the year were cruising for the first time. While I suspect the number has come down over the past few years I would expect it to still be 30% or higher

[Host Jazzbeau]

9 hours ago, Blockschip said:

Number of embarkations from US ports in 2016 was 11.6 million according to Statistica. US pop was 323.4 million. So, 3.6%. Assuming all embarkations are US citizens, which they are not. And a number of people cruise more than once a year. So, probably closer to 2.5% to 3%. 

 

Last time I checked, there were cruises [even on Celebrity] from ports outside the US 

[villauk]

5 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

One good thing about the smaller Azamara ships, though, are the ports it can visit and places it can dock where the larger ships can’t. In St. Petersburg a few years ago, there was an Azamara ship docked almost within walking distance of the Hermitage, whereas our Viking ship was situated miles and miles away!

 

Will be paying attention to those BLU experience reviews as well.

 

 

That goes for many places across the world with the smaller ships. Asia is exactly the same and believe me, most are even further away than the port at St. Petersburg you mention.

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

One good thing about the smaller Azamara ships, though, are the ports it can visit and places it can dock where the larger ships can’t. In St. Petersburg a few years ago, there was an Azamara ship docked almost within walking distance of the Hermitage, whereas our Viking ship was situated miles and miles away!

 

We also noticed that Oceania seems to park much further away than Azamara – either they use the RCL clout to get better spots or they are willing to pay a premium to get them.  Their itineraries are also the most adventuresome IME – no endless loops around the Caribbean in winter and Med in summer – but this can be a problem if you aren't available the one time your dream itinerary is offered!

[hcat]

Just a thought

Maybe the entertainment changes on X, EDEN, Andromeda,   wierd theater  shows are nothing more than the product of someone's mid life crisis???

[cruisefam38]

21 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Actually Crystal under its previous CEO adopted the moniker "All Exclusive."  I haven't noticed them using it lately, since she walked the plank...

Being completely unaware that this ad campaign ever existed, I realize I am not worthy, and probably never will be able to reach SUPREME EXCLUSIVE LUXURY.  (and a quick search shows Mrs. Rodriquez found a soft landing at Ponant when she walked or was pushed off the plank)

 

In the history of commerce, there are cautionary tales warning both of the travails of ill-conceived innovation and the consequences of blinding clinging to the status quo.  I understand data is needed, possibly desperately needed, to make the correct decisions.  As noted before, and as I have stated before on these boards, using flawed and biased questionnaires to collect consumer information for decision making is a highly risky strategy.  Bad input guarantees bad output.  Therefore, I can only hope that the leadership of Celebrity and it's parent company RC Ltd. see Big Data for what it is, and also take into account the humans who actually use the product.  

I don't want to be All Excluded by Celebrity Cruises.

[hubofhockey]

11 hours ago, BarbarianPaul said:

One good thing about the smaller Azamara ships, though, are the ports it can visit and places it can dock where the larger ships can’t. In St. Petersburg a few years ago, there was an Azamara ship docked almost within walking distance of the Hermitage, whereas our Viking ship was situated miles and miles away!

 

Will be paying attention to those BLU experience reviews as well.

 

Well, that's where real value is created with Azamara.  In Southeast Asia where Azamara is in Saigon and Bangkok for five days total, Celebrity is two to three hours away from those cities.  I'll gladly stay in a veranda cabin on that itinerary for Azamara and pay even less than someone in a Celebrity M Class suite.  I'm not going to Southeast Asia to enjoy the "retreat" or even my cabin.  Maybe I'm cheap, but I don't see $3K or more in value for that Celebrity suite experience.  If they cheapen my Aqua or other Veranda experience, then that gets factored in to the next cruise. We really like Celebrity and hope these changes really aren't impactful.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, bkbarrym said:

To me it appears that Celebrity is trying to fix something that isn't necessarily broken. I haven't sailed on the Edge but the reviews are such that I have no desire to and like others will continue to gravitate to the S and M  Class ships instead. However I am deeply concerned about Celebrity's plan to Edgify them over the next couple of years.

 

I think Edgify and Edgification are misnomers born mostly on cruise critic.  Celebrity announced the Revolution renovations and a spending plan to update and refresh older ships starting with M-Class.  Then S-Class.  A  very good thing IMO.  Some have focused negativity on this plan but these classes will not become clones of Edge. M-Class is underway with Millennium so we will see what the final changes are in a month or so. The cabins will be removed and replaced as they are definitely a bit beat up and dated.  But leaked new deck plans show some new Aqua cabins, modification to the suite area, and some much needed new dining.   It seems that really does not change Millennium into Edge.  Not even close.  So IMO people should stop worrying about the Edgification.  Celebrity will have two renovated older lines with traditional cabins and the new Edge-class for those who want the IV type cabins.  More choices on updated and new ships.  Sounds good to me!

[villauk]

34 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

 

I think Edgify and Edgification are misnomers born mostly on cruise critic.  Celebrity announced the Revolution renovations and a spending plan to update and refresh older ships starting with M-Class.  Then S-Class.  A  very good thing IMO.  Some have focused negativity on this plan but these classes will not become clones of Edge. M-Class is underway with Millennium so we will see what the final changes are in a month or so. The cabins will be removed and replaced as they are definitely a bit beat up and dated.  But leaked new deck plans show some new Aqua cabins, modification to the suite area, and some much needed new dining.   It seems that really does not change Millennium into Edge.  Not even close.  So IMO people should stop worrying about the Edgification.  Celebrity will have two renovated older lines with traditional cabins and the new Edge-class for those who want the IV type cabins.  More choices on updated and new ships.  Sounds good to me!

 

 

Misnomers born on CC? Perhaps some pax have thought this because of  X’s PR adverts like the ones on the website, such as:

 

‘From exclusive bedding made with cashmere to big names from the world of design, all of our accommodations are getting a refreshing redesign. In Suite Class, we’ve teamed up once again with Kelly Hoppen to bring the visionary ideas she started on Celebrity EdgeSM to the rest of our award-winning ships.’

 

And

 

‘We’ve teamed up with her again to bring the visionary ideas she started on Celebrity Edge to suites across our award-winning fleet.’

 

And

 

‘With Celebrity EdgeSM, we introduced an exclusive new sanctuary for all Suite Class guests called The Retreat. And now, we’re bringing its most luxurious experiences fleetwide‘

 

Yes, many of the older ships do need an update, don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you there,  but X are definitely highlighting the fact that they are using the ideas started from Edge across their fleet.

accommodations are getting a refreshing redesign. In Suite Class, we’ve teamed up once again with Kelly Hoppen to bring the visionary ideas she started on Celebrity EdgeSM to the rest of our award-winning ships.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by villauk

[Philomath]

Deleted - found info I was looking for

Edited January 7, 2019 by Philomath

[hcat]

47 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

 

I think Edgify and Edgification are misnomers born mostly on cruise critic.  Celebrity announced the Revolution renovations and a spending plan to update and refresh older ships starting with M-Class.  Then S-Class.  A  very good thing IMO.  Some have focused negativity on this plan but these classes will not become clones of Edge. M-Class is underway with Millennium so we will see what the final changes are in a month or so. The cabins will be removed and replaced as they are definitely a bit beat up and dated.  But leaked new deck plans show some new Aqua cabins, modification to the suite area, and some much needed new dining.   It seems that really does not change Millennium into Edge.  Not even close.  So IMO people should stop worrying about the Edgification.  Celebrity will have two renovated older lines with traditional cabins and the new Edge-class for those who want the IV type cabins.  More choices on updated and new ships.  Sounds good to me!

The  depictions of design for furniture in the updated  M  or S Class ships  are utterly  dreadful.. no style,  skimpy on storage...bring your 4 fav outfits!

 

Clean fresh and new yes... needed

"Hoppenizing" the ships..bad choice!

[TeeRick]

3 hours ago, villauk said:

sorry duplicate post

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by TeeRick
duplicate post

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

Misnomers born on CC? Perhaps some pax have thought this because of  X’s PR adverts like the ones on the website, such as:

 

‘From exclusive bedding made with cashmere to big names from the world of design, all of our accommodations are getting a refreshing redesign. In Suite Class, we’ve teamed up once again with Kelly Hoppen to bring the visionary ideas she started on Celebrity EdgeSM to the rest of our award-winning ships.’

 

And

 

‘We’ve teamed up with her again to bring the visionary ideas she started on Celebrity Edge to suites across our award-winning fleet.’

 

And

 

‘With Celebrity EdgeSM, we introduced an exclusive new sanctuary for all Suite Class guests called The Retreat. And now, we’re bringing its most luxurious experiences fleetwide‘

 

Yes, many of the older ships do need an update, don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you there,  but X are definitely highlighting the fact that they are using the ideas started from Edge across their fleet.

accommodations are getting a refreshing redesign. In Suite Class, we’ve teamed up once again with Kelly Hoppen to bring the visionary ideas she started on Celebrity EdgeSM to the rest of our award-winning ships.

 

OK yes I have seen this PR from Celebrity.  But I really meant to use the word misnomer in the sense of mis-characterization.  I don't think Celebrity has ever used edgification or edgify -those words originated here on CC - but perhaps you know a PR thread from Celebrity to the contrary.  If so I apologize for my error. Anyway I was simply trying to point out that M-Class and S-Class ships will get a needed re-fresh and upgrades but they will not turn into E-Class.  A lot of posts here are asking if the older ships will get the new IV style cabins and balconies.  That is one example of mis-characterization.  Now it is certainly possible as hcat points out that the new or updated cabins will be under the influence of Kelly Hoppen (hcat used the term Hoppenizing).  That would be consistent with what Celebrity has announced.

Edited January 7, 2019 by TeeRick

[nednrom]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

 

I think Edgify and Edgification are misnomers born mostly on cruise critic.  Celebrity announced the Revolution renovations and a spending plan to update and refresh older ships starting with M-Class.  Then S-Class.  A  very good thing IMO.  Some have focused negativity on this plan but these classes will not become clones of Edge. M-Class is underway with Millennium so we will see what the final changes are in a month or so. The cabins will be removed and replaced as they are definitely a bit beat up and dated.  But leaked new deck plans show some new Aqua cabins, modification to the suite area, and some much needed new dining.   It seems that really does not change Millennium into Edge.  Not even close.  So IMO people should stop worrying about the Edgification.  Celebrity will have two renovated older lines with traditional cabins and the new Edge-class for those who want the IV type cabins.  More choices on updated and new ships.  Sounds good to me!

 

 I have to disagree with your labeling the term "edgification" a misnomer. The term may be born in cruise critic but it probably is due to the fact that Celebrity is marketing this revolution as "taking the fleet to the edge" showing the Edge features . That may be why people are so confused and worried. I do agree it's too soon to start worrying about it.

Edited January 7, 2019 by nednrom

[RDC1]

On 1/6/2019 at 11:02 AM, mnocket said:

I believe 5% is roughly the percentage of Americans that cruise in a given year.  As for the number of Americans that have ever taken a cruise, it's about one out of every three (33%)  source

According to a survey done by Allianz in 2016 2/3 of Americans have never cruised,  which supports your comment.

Similarly about 46% of world wide cruise passengers each year are americans (according to F-CCA).  That would come out to be 13.1 million in 2018 or about 4% of US population in any given year.  From another source 38% of those are new.

So your numbers are certainly in the ballpark.

 

Of course if you look at the numbers that would imply that cruising has a pretty high turnover rate where people try it and then either do not cruise again, or cruise very seldom.

Edited January 7, 2019 by RDC1

[villauk]

6 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

Why cares about Millionials?  What about ME, my generation, you know Gen Xer's, what about us?  After Boomers die off, we will be the top earners!  Why does nobody ever care about us?  F' millionals, we the true X, should matter: we have more money than their generation will ever have, we have class, and respect for past societal norms.  Why not build ships for us??

 

 

We’re obviously a forgotten generation on the ‘X’ line 😆.

[gkbiiii]

Your right, it has been this way our whole lives.  Nobody cared about us, it was always Boomer this, Gen Y that, etc.

[The Mommy]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. We are in our early 60’s and have preferred X since we started cruising in 2004. We love the martini bar( except when the music overpowers) and are sad to lose the formal nights so we dress up regardless.

we don’t go to the shows or the spa so X pretty much remains our favourite line. Not sure which line we would move to other than Princess or try some new ones? 

[Wiltonian]

If you miss the more formal times on Celebrity, how about Cunard? None of the loud-music-in-public-areas-to-attract-younger-people. None of the up-selling and restuarant and drink package selling. Port talks by cultural experts, not by shopping experts.

 

 

[gkbiiii]

To me, the Yacht Club concept on MSC Seaside, was just what I think Gen X would like.

[Wiltonian]

2 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Haven't you seen the honorable mention on the side of their ships?

 

First off, the Fun Ships are probably already a fit for most Gen X, at least for now.  Millennials outnumber us, I've attached the projections.  Celebrity may just want their market, and let it's competitors go after Gen X.  I'm skeptical fo their approach, but it's a market that could pay off if done right.  

 

But hey, Celebrity may change their mind.  If not, there are plenty of other lines that will want our dollars.

 

 

 

But the raw population figures ignore:

1. The time which people have to spend on cruising and other vacations. My impression is that vacation time for people in employment in the US is worse than in the UK and the rest of Europe, so they'll fill 7 day Caribbean cruises with millennials, but not the longer ones.

2. The disposable income of the different generations. Certainly in the UK, the baby-boomers have retired much earlier and with much better pensions than their children can expect.

 

Stuart

[Stateroom_Sailor]

26 minutes ago, Wiltonian said:

 

But the raw population figures ignore:

1. The time which people have to spend on cruising and other vacations. My impression is that vacation time for people in employment in the US is worse than in the UK and the rest of Europe, so they'll fill 7 day Caribbean cruises with millennials, but not the longer ones.

2. The disposable income of the different generations. Certainly in the UK, the baby-boomers have retired much earlier and with much better pensions than their children can expect.

 

Stuart

 

It's a risky move indeed.  Some companies, such as American Express, have done well jumping focus from baby-boomers to millennials, but cruising isn't going to be so easy.  Plus:

 

3. Many wanderlust millennials currently prefer discounted airfare and hotel accommodations, to really absorb the local culture and cuisine on their terms.  The apprehension of traveling on a large ship with thousands of people, eating shipboard food, on a strict and limited schedule, isn't being offset by Celebrity's current concept.  Ritz-Carlton Yacht Collection may fare better.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Stateroom_Sailor

[nednrom]

4 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

To me, the Yacht Club concept on MSC Seaside, was just what I think Gen X would like.

 

I would agree with this - Gen X have just gotten "rid" of any kids they may have had (40's, early 50's) they are ready to party, get spoiled and spend their children's inheritance    "ship within a ship" concept suits this well on any ship.  Although the Edge has this, the changes and cost may be too radical at the moment.

[TeeRick]

We speak about Millennials, Gen-X'rs, Baby Boomers, etc as if these entire age classes of multi-millions of people each act with one mind set and all want the same thing.  We as a society love to put ourselves in certain classes but it pretty much means next to nothing as individuals make their own choices with their own preferences.