I Thought Celebrity's Changes Were Driven By Changing Demographics - Not True

[The_Big_M]

Funny how many of us are saying the same thing.

[ipeeinthepool]

7 hours ago, mnocket said:

Yeah, the AVERAGE life expectancy in the US is 78.6 years (it's actually dropped the past few years). I hate to say it, but we boomers dying off.

All but one of the age groups are dying off.  Gen X, Boomers, Millenials, etc are all dying off.  There are no new Gen Xer’s or Millenials, only infants and I don’t think the current group of infants have been named.

[hcat]

6 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

I personally think Gen X have become the "forgotten" market segment in so many discussions here on cruise critic. Many of us have disposable income, are willing to pay for upgraded experiences (dining and beverage packages) and in many cases have children either in high school, or college and are therefore looking for more "adult" vacations rather than the floating amusement parks at sea of NCL, CCL, or Royal.

So how do you react to EDGE drone racing, laser tag, Andromeda, Edenists..? 

 

.just curious if this meets the Millenial mark because most boomers are not impressed based on posts and reviews.. 

 

Ship seems  amazing..but the   Programming?

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, hcat said:

Wonder what the stockholders think about EDGE reviews and EDEN?

 

 

hcat- the major RCI shareholders will not care about any one ship's early reviews on Cruise Critic.  Also posters here are a very small minority of cruise passengers.  RCI has many brands and ships.  Shareholders only care about total revenue, growth and profit after taxes.  Edge could tank completely but if RCI is still very successful overall then who cares?  Every major corporation has new products that sometimes do not make it.  I'm not saying that is the case yet with Edge Class.  

[TeeRick]

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

That includes infant mortalities. The life expectancy for 74 year olds is quite a bit higher. I just hit 71 and had to start taking RMDs from my retirement accounts. If I understand the math, the IRS thinks I will live 26.5 more years. My mother almost made that number, so maybe they’re right.

 

RMD's are the worst case of government interference in your personal finances.  My sympathies!

[K12Guy]

12 hours ago, alfredo22 said:

 

Our sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.

 

http://mentalfloss.com/article/52209/15-historical-complaints-about-young-people-ruining-everything

I love it! Thanks for sharing Horace. The statement simply says the circle of life compounds itself. And yet we get better with each generation, right?

 

Now if we 'more than 40' could just be a little bit more understanding and tolerant. But, we don't have to. We've been understanding and tolerant all our lives and now we just want peace, quiet, and respect. As will those currently 'under 40' if and when they arrive at our age. Ah yes, that damn circle.

[K12Guy]

On 1/2/2019 at 8:16 AM, TeeRick said:

I would not sail on an older ship without WiFi or any of the modern conveniences that I use every day.  I know some older cruisers would disagree and be happy to put away their iPads and iPhones for a week but not me.  

We absolutely agree to disagree on this point. Several years ago my wife treated me to a week long Custom Alaska cruise on the MV Sikumi, a 65 foot boat. We had no wifi and almost no cell coverage for a week. In fact the chef was the only person I saw using a cell phone during that time. It was wonderful. No meals ruined with the loudmouth at the next table shouting about how much they missed the grandkids and all that stuff. Even the young adults aboard for the week were forced to read books. Those books with paper pages and such. AND, they even engaged in verbal conversation with us 'older' folks. It was nice. I would do it again in a New York heartbeat. But, as you wrote, that's just me.

[StolidCruiser]

22 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

That's because we are covering their housing costs.  Late 20's, still single, no kids, and still living in my basement rent free.  Lucky to get them to pay for their phone and auto insurance.

 

There’s an incredibly easy solution to that problem.

[Mynki]

On 1/2/2019 at 12:59 PM, lisiamc said:

I know that they didn’t do their research this way, but sometimes it seems to me that they’ve decided to go with everything that they think will chase off their current customers.  

 

I also can’t help thinking of the line from Field of Dreams, “If you build it, he will come”.  If Celebrity builds a product for the Millennials, they will come.  Whether it actually appeals to them or anyone else is another question, I guess.

Hmmmmmm, Millennials? These are people born between 1981 and 1996 (So age 23 and 38). We're in our early forties and always feel young onboard. I seriously don't think Celebrity will be attracting millennials any time soon. 

RCL, Norwegian and Carnival yes. But X are doing a terrible job if that's who they are trying to target. 

[Lilikins]

17 hours ago, Tao Diva said:

Given the feedback here, I'll be surprised if Celebrity keeps things like the Eden show long enough for my 2020 cruise but I hope they do. I understand I'm in the minority here but I really like what I hear about the EDGE. 

 

     I'm an intorverted, New Age, crystal wearing, Si-Fi watching, Fantasy reading, herb growing, tea-totaling, yoga practicing, organic eating, meditating, Gen-X, apple fan-girl, Trekie, Whovian, Potter-head, Ren-fairy, Brown Coat, Slayer. I'm used to hearing the stuff i'm "into" made fun of. I enjoy it anyway.

 

     Occasionally something like the EDGE is dreamed up that is a good fit for people like me but it doesn't last. The geeks and nerds were just never a large enough group (with enough money) to make catering to us profitable. But we are now a growing community with more disposable income than in the past.  Maybe the EDGE is the ship intended to pick up this stray market segment since no one else in the cruise industry really seems to want us (except for that once-a-year Star Trek sailing).

     I hope Celebrity can keep this experiment going long enough for me to come play. I want to visit Club Andromeda, Eden, and meditate in the Crystalarium. I want to have a room that my pasty skin can stay out of the sun but I can still open a window to commune with the sea (without really having to go outside). I want to make a cozy nest of Kelly Hoppin pillows on the floor in front of the IV and read. 

 

All that said, the cruise community has been very good to me. I enjoy cruising and cruise people are largely a fun group. I "get" the seduction of sea and the appeal of traditional cruising. I accept that the majority of the cruising community doesn't like "weird" so when something like the EDGE comes along, it usually doesn't last long. I'd like to jump on it sooner, but 2020 is my first opportunity and I hope some of the weird still remains for me when I get there.

Yes we appear to be in the minority here. I was looking to upgrade from Royal Caribbean, but princess and some others just felt stale and tired. News from the Edge last summer is what first attracted me to celebrity and so far I enjoy most things that I hear about it.

 

I don’t believe celebrity is actively trying to dissuade older cruisers. I do, however, think that cruise lines are trying to find a niche because competition is fierce. Celebrity is known for having a younger crowd on average in comparison to other premium cruise lines with fewer families/children. I think they are just leaning into that further to distinguish themselves from the competition. 

[Mynki]

10 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Prices on the unsold suites on my Jan. 20 Edge cruise went up again this week.  Stockholders are laughing at the reviews all the way to the bank.

Really? 

https://ibb.co/grc8CxG

[Lilikins]

6 minutes ago, Mynki said:

Hmmmmmm, Millennials? These are people born between 1981 and 1996 (So age 23 and 38). We're in our early forties and always feel young onboard. I seriously don't think Celebrity will be attracting millennials any time soon. 

RCL, Norwegian and Carnival yes. But X are doing a terrible job if that's who they are trying to target. 

*waves* hi! Elder millennial here! Sorry but it worked on me, my husband and my brother and sister in law. I doubt we are the only ones.

[Mynki]

1 minute ago, Lilikins said:

*waves* hi! Elder millennial here! Sorry but it worked on me, my husband and my brother and sister in law. I doubt we are the only ones.

*waves back* :)

But how many out of 3,000 S class pax? 

I reckon their average age will be around 57 to 58. 

 

[lisiamc]

8 minutes ago, Mynki said:

Hmmmmmm, Millennials? These are people born between 1981 and 1996 (So age 23 and 38). We're in our early forties and always feel young onboard. I seriously don't think Celebrity will be attracting millennials any time soon. 

RCL, Norwegian and Carnival yes. But X are doing a terrible job if that's who they are trying to target. 

There are the passengers they’re hoping for, and the passengers they actually get.  Two different groups, for the most part.  Have you seen the people in their brochures?  All in the 30-45 age range.  The Millennials will be aging into that bracket very soon, and it’s never too late to try for some Gen X-ers as well, I guess.  I was 41 on my first Celebrity cruise, and they were attracting a much older crowd then too.  

[Mynki]

Just now, lisiamc said:

There are the passengers they’re hoping for, and the passengers they actually get.  Two different groups, for the most part.  Have you seen the people in their brochures?  All in the 30-45 age range.  The Millennials will be aging into that bracket very soon, and it’s never too late to try for some Gen X-ers as well, I guess.  I was 41 on my first Celebrity cruise, and they were attracting a much older crowd then too.  

Certainly have. I've even posted about the younger models on here before stating that they don't give an accurate reflection of the demographics you'll find onboard at all. Then again would anyone really expect to see a scooter in an advert? 

I was late thirties when first sailing on Silhouette. 

[Lilikins]

Just now, Mynki said:

*waves back* 🙂

But how many out of 3,000 S class pax? 

I reckon their average age will be around 57 to 58. 

 

Oh no doubt. I fully anticipate our group being younger than the average cruiser on the ship. However, the average celebrity clientele is still younger than others in their class like princess and holland. I’m sure we would find more people our age in royal, carnival, and ncl, but their style of cruising doesn’t really appear to us. When I travel, I want to be pampered like a queen 😁

[Philomath]

23 minutes ago, Lilikins said:

*waves* hi! Elder millennial here! Sorry but it worked on me, my husband and my brother and sister in law. I doubt we are the only ones.

 

Lilikins I hope you have a wonderful time! I'm a fellow elder millenial and my husband and I have been cruising Celebrity since we were engaged 8 years ago. We, unlike many in our demographic, love cruising because it requires minimal planning other than booking the cruise itself. Our work lives are extremely busy (perhaps why we are not broke or mired in debt as alleged above) and when we're on vacation, we want to only have to get ourselves there and then figure out the rest later. Given the number of cruises we've gone on in the past ten years, I would say Celebrity has made a good investment in trying to attract us. I still think the product is aimed at people substantially older than us, but we appreciate the concessions to a younger age group.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Philomath

[Mynki]

38 minutes ago, Lilikins said:

Oh no doubt. I fully anticipate our group being younger than the average cruiser on the ship. However, the average celebrity clientele is still younger than others in their class like princess and holland. I’m sure we would find more people our age in royal, carnival, and ncl, but their style of cruising doesn’t really appear to us. When I travel, I want to be pampered like a queen 😁

Definitely younger than HAL. I've never sailed Princess though have read multiple times that it's the closest fit to X there is? 

Carnival and NCL target a completely different market as does RCL. That said having sailed RCL recently I found there to be little difference in terms of service quality when compared to Celebrity non suite class, some aspects of RCL even beat X! The pax were noticeably younger though as to be expected. :)

[RDC1]

7 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

They haven't forgotten about Gen X. Royal has obscene amounts of data. They know age groups, how much they spend, which ships they are booking, trends, etc. 

 

My mother, in her 60's, enjoyed Celebrity but would take Harmony (her last cruise) all day over Celebrity. Royal knows the trends, and I think Gen X, let alone Baby Boomers, are flocking towards those supposed amusement parks that you despise.  And thats because the amusement parks offer lots of refined, quiet spaces - more than Celebrity, but with a ton of other things to do as well and far superior entertainment. Unless you think Gen X hates quality musicals and jazz clubs....

To which amusement parks are you referring?  Disney parks are doing well, but they are pretty family focused.  Great America, Six Flags, etc which has been more late teens, young adult focused are doing less well, some have been in financial trouble during the past few years. Universal Studios is doing well, mostly due to the Harry Potter link.

[BNBR]

1 minute ago, RDC1 said:

To which amusement parks are you referring?  Disney parks are doing well, but they are pretty family focused.  Great America, Six Flags, etc which has been more late teens, young adult focused are doing less well, some have been in financial trouble during the past few years. Universal Studios is doing well, mostly due to the Harry Potter link.

 

I was responding to another post that referred to the floating amusement parks from RCL, NCL, etc. 

[RDC1]

1 minute ago, BNBR said:

 

I was responding to another post that referred to the floating amusement parks from RCL, NCL, etc. 

Ok that makes sense. I had thought you were trying to point out the amount of revenue made by other entertainment companies in the younger demographics (I over thought the post)

 

The amusement park ships in NCL, RCL, and Carnival are also the lines aimed the most at families and are competitive at the low end of the scale in the revenue per passenger range due to the large number of 3,4 per cabin booking. Those cruise lines are in the .5 to .8 ratio when it comes to   % industry revenue/% Industry Passengers.  Part of that is also due to the tendency to shorter length cruises by those lines.

 

Celebrity on the other hand is in the range where the other lines with similar ratios  (the 1.2 to 1.6) range are Princess, HAL, and Celebrity. So clearly Celebrity is thinking that there is a way to attract a different customer base than its competition which are clearly staying in the more traditional, less class structured cruising mode. Time will tell if they will be successful in attracting the customers and revenue to replace those that they are turning off by the changes.

 

I would expect based upon the reviews that SV balcony and suites on the Epic to be more in demand, but that the demand for window veranda classes to drop.  Considering the length of time that cruises are booked, I expect that you will not see a true measure of the demand for the rooms, and their impact on pricing for 6 to 12 months.

 

 

[Fogfog]

Our 20 somethings would be looking for late night disco/clubbing after dinner and perhaps comedy shows/participant options.

They have traveled extensively both on and off cruises---though X would not be the first choice because of age/demographics on most sailings.

That said...they had a blast on the Baltics sailing because a group met/hung out each evening after dinner with family etc....

They would be looking for wifi connectivity  to arrange meet ups and prefer apps over any paper "any day of the week and twice on Sundays" as we say.

 

Elder 20+ has the $ - however so far his travel has been with groups to Vegas or a major city for a concert. 

Younger 20+ doesn't have the coin yet--- 

 

I like the coloring of the Edge in pics -- however really like the classic cruise line experience--the clubbyness of a masculine chair in a bar with a trio/jazz ensemble.  We like traditional balconies because often DH is out there later at night when I am getting ready for bed... and I am on the balcony in the am having coffee while DH is still sleeping... The IV balc wont suit that.

The Eden show - from pics and descriptions isn't our taste.  The dining sounds intriguing... We prefer Murano over anything and will greatly miss it. Willing to try other things. 

[BNBR]

3 hours ago, RDC1 said:

Ok that makes sense. I had thought you were trying to point out the amount of revenue made by other entertainment companies in the younger demographics (I over thought the post)

 

The amusement park ships in NCL, RCL, and Carnival are also the lines aimed the most at families and are competitive at the low end of the scale in the revenue per passenger range due to the large number of 3,4 per cabin booking. Those cruise lines are in the .5 to .8 ratio when it comes to   % industry revenue/% Industry Passengers.  Part of that is also due to the tendency to shorter length cruises by those lines.

 

Celebrity on the other hand is in the range where the other lines with similar ratios  (the 1.2 to 1.6) range are Princess, HAL, and Celebrity. So clearly Celebrity is thinking that there is a way to attract a different customer base than its competition which are clearly staying in the more traditional, less class structured cruising mode. Time will tell if they will be successful in attracting the customers and revenue to replace those that they are turning off by the changes.

 

I would expect based upon the reviews that SV balcony and suites on the Epic to be more in demand, but that the demand for window veranda classes to drop.  Considering the length of time that cruises are booked, I expect that you will not see a true measure of the demand for the rooms, and their impact on pricing for 6 to 12 months.

 

 

 

 

My thoughts are that ships like the Solstice class are a dying breed.  I was off Reflection today and as good a product as Celebrity has, it was just "boring" (Yes, we still had a good time).  Which is why Edge is going in a little different direction.  They need "more" and that's what they appear to be doing.

 

I'm guessing Royal needs to differentiate the brands and hope there is enough of a market for a "premium" offering.  You can see it with Edge.  While some don't like the changes, it's obvious they are going for an entirely unique, premium offering that differs from Royal.  I tend to think they know what they are doing and who they are appealing to with the shear volume of data they have.  They can literally see what age groups order what types of drinks, what sorts of cabins they book, when they gamble, how late they stay up, whether they take excursions and what types of excursions.  Cross reference that with Royal bookings and come up with pretty darn spot on demographics.  The amount of behavioral data they have is remarkable and you better believe they closely review it along with other metrics when deciding on the direction of new ships like Edge - and they can probably pretty accurately predict bookings and popularity as well.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

10 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

They haven't forgotten about Gen X. Royal has obscene amounts of data. They know age groups, how much they spend, which ships they are booking, trends, etc. 

 

My mother, in her 60's, enjoyed Celebrity but would take Harmony (her last cruise) all day over Celebrity. Royal knows the trends, and I think Gen X, let alone Baby Boomers, are flocking towards those supposed amusement parks that you despise.  And thats because the amusement parks offer lots of refined, quiet spaces - more than Celebrity, but with a ton of other things to do as well and far superior entertainment. Unless you think Gen X hates quality musicals and jazz clubs....

 

Younger Gen X here (almost millennial), flocking towards X and HAL.  Questioning whether Gen X hates quality _____, is a strawman argument.  At some point, we have to choose what matters more to us, the superior attractions on a fun ship, or the superior food and accommodations on a refined ship.

 

Who's to say I couldn't have both during my vacation?  Let's say (A) I stayed pre-cruise at a refined hotel, eating at foodie restaurants, before my CCL/RCL/NCL cruise, or (B) enjoyed a local amusement park, before getting on X/HAL/PCL?  I've done both scenarios, and prefer the latter.

[BNBR]

2 minutes ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

Younger Gen X here (almost millennial), flocking towards X and HAL.  Questioning whether Gen X hates quality _____, is a strawman argument.  At some point, we have to choose what matters more to us, the superior attractions on a fun ship, or the superior food and accommodations on a refined ship.

 

Who's to say I couldn't have both during my vacation?  Let's say (A) I stayed pre-cruise at a refined hotel, eating at foodie restaurants, before my CCL/RCL/NCL cruise, or (B) enjoyed a local amusement park, before getting on X/HAL/PCL?  I've done both scenarios, and prefer the latter.

 

RCL/NCL/CCL/MSC are moving in the direction of giving you the option to have that refined experience while also having the extra amenities.  That is what I'm getting at.  For $169 you can have 10+ specialty dining restaurants on Symphony.  Celebrity may have a better buffet, but you can certainly have fine dining with creative meals.  You can hang out in the solarium all the same and numerous refined, adult oriented lounges and bars.  The problem I had with Celebrity is that's ALL they offered.  Look at all the new Ship within a Ship offerings - Haven, Yacht Club, etc.  The trend definitely seems to be a focus on going after the "amusement park" offerings AND the refined/premium experience.  Why wouldn't someone prefer to have the option to do both as they please?

 

Your examples can be also be had by simply going on a different ship that offers all of the above and does it well - including far superior "refined" entertainment.  Considering the current cruise trends, it seems most people think that is the way of the future and it's what consumers want.