Rare HappyInVan Posted February 15, 2020 #376 Share Posted February 15, 2020 (edited) Deleted Edited February 15, 2020 by HappyInVan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare CruisinCrow Posted February 15, 2020 #377 Share Posted February 15, 2020 The Diamond Princess numbers are up to 285 now, according to the map. 😷😲 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare nikkiw60 Posted February 16, 2020 #378 Share Posted February 16, 2020 From the Guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare nikkiw60 Posted February 16, 2020 #379 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Owner and his dog in Beijing, this is from a Chinese newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted February 16, 2020 #380 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) I fear the Westerdam situation will be made a movie one day. Let me see if I can recap: 1. Westerdam made a stop Hong Kong late January. Because of this, they were refused entry to Vietnam, Japan, Guam (few others) 2. The cruise ended up being an extended cruise to no where as no countries would allow debarkation. 3.During this cruise to no-where time, there was NO quarantine on the ship. Everyone went about their business as usual. 4. No one reported any sickness on Westerdam 5. Eventually, Cambodia accepted the Westerdam passengers. They were bused to near airport where Malaysia Air was chartered to transport them to Malaysia to get on connecting flights home. 6. A passenger left Westerdam, boarded the bus, boarded the plane to Malaysia and THEN tested positive. Meaning, it is likely she was positive during her time on WEsterdam without quarantine. 7. Malaysia air immediately halted all charters of passengers leaving 5-6 busloads of Westerdam guests stranded in Cambodia airport. 8. HAL moved the passengers in the Cambodia airport to a hotel where they could spend the night while waiting for confirmation that the sick lady in #6 was in fact NCoV. 9. The lady in #6 test has been confirmed. She does have NCov 10. Those in the hotel in Cambodia are being asked to remain in their rooms until they can be tested. In the meantime, a few hundred guests remain on the Westerdam (didn't have time to remove them before the sick patient stopped the debarkation process). Those first off Westerdam were able to make their connections out of Malaysia. Some are in the Netherlands. (and who knows where else). Some passengers are stuck in Malaysia. Some in Cambodia, and some still on the ship. In theory, everyone on the ship has been exposed. Edited February 16, 2020 by BermudaBound2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidari Posted February 16, 2020 #381 Share Posted February 16, 2020 5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said: I fear the Westerdam situation will be made a movie one day. Let me see if I can recap: 1. Westerdam made a stop Hong Kong late January. Because of this, they were refused entry to Vietnam, Japan, Guam (few others) 2. The cruise ended up being an extended cruise to no where as no countries would allow debarkation. 3.During this cruise to no-where time, there was NO quarantine on the ship. Everyone went about their business as usual. 4. No one reported any sickness on Westerdam 5. Eventually, Cambodia accepted the Westerdam passengers. They were bused to near airport where Malaysia Air was chartered to transport them to Malaysia to get on connecting flights home. 6. A passenger left Westerdam, boarded the bus, boarded the plane to Malaysia and THEN tested positive. Meaning, it is likely she was positive during her time on WEsterdam without quarantine. 7. Malaysia air immediately halted all charters of passengers leaving 5-6 busloads of Westerdam guests stranded in Cambodia airport. 8. HAL moved the passengers in the Cambodia airport to a hotel where they could spend the night while waiting for confirmation that the sick lady in #6 was in fact NCoV. 9. The lady in #6 test has been confirmed. She does have NCov 10. Those in the hotel in Cambodia are being asked to remain in their rooms until they can be tested. In the meantime, a few hundred guests remain on the Westerdam (didn't have time to remove them before the sick patient stopped the debarkation process). Those first off Westerdam were able to make their connections out of Malaysia. Some are in the Netherlands. (and who knows where else). Some passengers are stuck in Malaysia. Some in Cambodia, and some still on the ship. In theory, everyone on the ship has been exposed. BB ... Along with anyone else who has come into contact with all those who left the ship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare HappyInVan Posted February 17, 2020 #382 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said: In theory, everyone on the ship has been exposed. AFAIK, respiratory diseases have to expel the bacteria/virus in order to infect new hosts. Therefore, infected persons are not contagious until they show symptoms like sneezing or dripping nose. Here, we need to differentiate between the classic asymptomatic carrier and infected persons who are simply not yet at the symptomatic stage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier An asymptomatic carrier like Typhoid Mary was healthy, but was contagious. In the old days, she was dangerous because no one would have guessed that she was the source of the contagion. Fortunately, 19th Century science was able to identify her by detective work. She was the common factor. Today, there is some fear in the States that even non-symptomatic respiratory patients may be infectious. At this stage. The evidence is not conclusive. The WHO is still of the opinion that adequate screening and detective work is enough to prevent uncontrollable infection worldwide. Medical testing only for those in close contact with known infected persons. Therefore, they do not favor a blanket ban on travelers. That said, symptoms can range from mild (like a cold) to pneumonia. The problem with COVID 19 is that 80% of the infected show minor symptoms. So, it is possible to fail to identify (using thermal scans and self-reporting) those with mild symptoms. However, they are infectious as long as they expel body fluids and particles. The Westerdam case is a failure of containment. The pax were released (without quarantine) after just 14 days, without a laboratory test for everyone. The single confirmed case was likely self-medicating to suppress flu symptoms. However, she was eventually detected by a thermal scan(?), and confirmed with two laboratory tests. The upside is that if she was able to suppress her symptoms throughout the 14 days, then no one else may be infected. Of course, she would have been detected before disembarkation if a sample was tested at a laboratory. How much would it cost? Does anyone know? Let's assume a cost of $500 per test. A single round of tests for the Westerdam would cost $1.2 million. Poor governments like Cambodia are not willing to spend the money. In the future, cruise companies and their insurance companies need to finance the tests in order to disembark their pax. Don't place the burden on governments like Cambodia, Guam, Fiji etc. Containment will fail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbels Posted February 17, 2020 #383 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Does anyone know how the quarantine works, are the doors locked automaticcly, or are they just asked to stay in their cabin? Are they forced to do so, or might one refuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmas gran Posted February 17, 2020 Author #384 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Pebbels said: Does anyone know how the quarantine works, are the doors locked automaticcly, or are they just asked to stay in their cabin? Are they forced to do so, or might one refuse? Why would you refuse, it’s like having Norovirus and refusing to stay in your room just go and spread it around. I believe it’s a matter of trust, but security can monitor the hallways as there are cameras Edited February 17, 2020 by emmas gran Addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8420PR Posted February 17, 2020 #385 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I wonder if MSC will keep MSC Bellissima in Asia this summer (predominantly China and Japan) or if they will send her back to Europe. I guess a decision will be made mid-March, but if I was a betting man I would say unlikely she will make it to Asia this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmas gran Posted February 17, 2020 Author #386 Share Posted February 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, 8420PR said: I wonder if MSC will keep MSC Bellissima in Asia this summer (predominantly China and Japan) or if they will send her back to Europe. I guess a decision will be made mid-March, but if I was a betting man I would say unlikely she will make it to Asia this year. We are on Bellissima at the moment and being told they do not have a definite answer yet, so they are very much in the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liviucostin Posted February 17, 2020 #387 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, 8420PR said: I wonder if MSC will keep MSC Bellissima in Asia this summer (predominantly China and Japan) or if they will send her back to Europe. I guess a decision will be made mid-March, but if I was a betting man I would say unlikely she will make it to Asia this year. I'm on the repo cruise starting March 21 Dubai to Yokohama. I'm waiting for the news. Hopefully they wont wait until mid March! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liviucostin Posted February 17, 2020 #388 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, emmas gran said: We are on Bellissima at the moment and being told they do not have a definite answer yet, so they are very much in the dark I hope they will have an answer very soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardface Posted February 17, 2020 #389 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, HappyInVan said: AFAIK, respiratory diseases have to expel the bacteria/virus in order to infect new hosts. Therefore, infected persons are not contagious until they show symptoms like sneezing or dripping nose. Here, we need to differentiate between the classic asymptomatic carrier and infected persons who are simply not yet at the symptomatic stage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptomatic_carrier An asymptomatic carrier like Typhoid Mary was healthy, but was contagious. In the old days, she was dangerous because no one would have guessed that she was the source of the contagion. Fortunately, 19th Century science was able to identify her by detective work. She was the common factor. Today, there is some fear in the States that even non-symptomatic respiratory patients may be infectious. At this stage. The evidence is not conclusive. The WHO is still of the opinion that adequate screening and detective work is enough to prevent uncontrollable infection worldwide. Medical testing only for those in close contact with known infected persons. Therefore, they do not favor a blanket ban on travelers. That said, symptoms can range from mild (like a cold) to pneumonia. The problem with COVID 19 is that 80% of the infected show minor symptoms. So, it is possible to fail to identify (using thermal scans and self-reporting) those with mild symptoms. However, they are infectious as long as they expel body fluids and particles. The Westerdam case is a failure of containment. The pax were released (without quarantine) after just 14 days, without a laboratory test for everyone. The single confirmed case was likely self-medicating to suppress flu symptoms. However, she was eventually detected by a thermal scan(?), and confirmed with two laboratory tests. The upside is that if she was able to suppress her symptoms throughout the 14 days, then no one else may be infected. Of course, she would have been detected before disembarkation if a sample was tested at a laboratory. How much would it cost? Does anyone know? Let's assume a cost of $500 per test. A single round of tests for the Westerdam would cost $1.2 million. Poor governments like Cambodia are not willing to spend the money. In the future, cruise companies and their insurance companies need to finance the tests in order to disembark their pax. Don't place the burden on governments like Cambodia, Guam, Fiji etc. Containment will fail. Just thinking about it, this has to be correct or else we would have seen infected numbers outside Asia start to balloon last week. The fact those numbers remained fairly stagnant shows the quarantine measures in place are working to contain spread to within the quarantine. Edited February 17, 2020 by Beardface 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare CruisinCrow Posted February 17, 2020 #390 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Beardface said: Just thinking about it, this has to be correct or else we would have seen infected numbers outside Asia start to balloon last week. The fact those numbers remained fairly stagnant shows the quarantine measures in place are working to contain spread to within the quarantine. The map is showing a jump up in cases outside mainland China from 800 to 1300 this morning. But when you add up the country numbers on the left-hand side, they don't add up to 1300 yet. And I heard on the news that the number of confirmed passengers is 450, although the map is showing 369. There seems to be bit of a lag. 1300 is still pretty low compared to 70,000 though so I hope you are right! Regardless, we leave tomorrow on MSC Divina to the Bahamas. Wish us luck! I haven't heard any more about Caribbean cruises being affected since Anthem. Edited February 17, 2020 by CruisinCrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkshirephil Posted February 17, 2020 #391 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Liviucostin said: I'm on the repo cruise starting March 21 Dubai to Yokohama. I'm waiting for the news. Hopefully they wont wait until mid March! We are also on this one, so just a waiting game. Hopefully we will get some news soon and can get on with organising tours etc. Personally it is not the virus that worries me it is the actions of the various governments and whether we would end up being confined to cabin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liviucostin Posted February 17, 2020 #392 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Costa just canceled all cruises in Asia through mid march. They have 4 ships based there. So maybe we will find out soon about Bellissima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare nikkiw60 Posted February 17, 2020 #393 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Reply from our TA re 11th April cruise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare HappyInVan Posted February 17, 2020 #394 Share Posted February 17, 2020 So far, only the American woman from the Westerdam has been confirmed. Her husband has pneumonia but has tested negative. From HALrunner's post (1059) ... "This update from HAL an hour ago on FB: Westerdam Update: Westerdam remains alongside in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, where officials from the Cambodian Health Ministry are on board today to complete testing for COVID-19 on the 255 guests and 747 crew that are awaiting clearance. We anticipate this will take several days and greatly appreciate the thoroughness of all authorities involved in resolving this situation. Guests at a hotel in Phnom Penh have all completed the COVID-19 screening. Results are being returned when completed, with the first batch of 406 all being negative. Cleared guests may travel home, and arrangements are being made for those guests..." https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2731085-news-on-the-westerdam/page/43/#comments I've monitored this table for two weeks.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Wuhan_coronavirus_outbreak The number of infected outside China/HK and the Diamond Princess (International Conveyance) is just 400+. I've watched it increase from 300+ last week. Most of the increase from Singapore. Most of the infected were travelers from China/HK and those they were visiting. AFAIK, the number of infected further down the chain are very small, since health authorities and travelers were on alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWolf Posted February 17, 2020 #395 Share Posted February 17, 2020 56 minutes ago, nikkiw60 said: Reply from our TA re 11th April cruise. Thank you for the information. Would you mind posting this in the Roll Call forum for the MSC Bellissima March 21st repo cruise ? Fellow passengers are gathering information. I am booked on the repo cruise and hoping that MSC will make a reasonable decision by skipping some ports (China, Hong Kong & Taiwan) , for the safety of passengers and crew. Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardface Posted February 17, 2020 #396 Share Posted February 17, 2020 42 minutes ago, HappyInVan said: So far, only the American woman from the Westerdam has been confirmed. Her husband has pneumonia but has tested negative. From HALrunner's post (1059) ... "This update from HAL an hour ago on FB: Westerdam Update: Westerdam remains alongside in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, where officials from the Cambodian Health Ministry are on board today to complete testing for COVID-19 on the 255 guests and 747 crew that are awaiting clearance. We anticipate this will take several days and greatly appreciate the thoroughness of all authorities involved in resolving this situation. Guests at a hotel in Phnom Penh have all completed the COVID-19 screening. Results are being returned when completed, with the first batch of 406 all being negative. Cleared guests may travel home, and arrangements are being made for those guests..." https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2731085-news-on-the-westerdam/page/43/#comments I've monitored this table for two weeks.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Wuhan_coronavirus_outbreak The number of infected outside China/HK and the Diamond Princess (International Conveyance) is just 400+. I've watched it increase from 300+ last week. Most of the increase from Singapore. Most of the infected were travelers from China/HK and those they were visiting. AFAIK, the number of infected further down the chain are very small, since health authorities and travelers were on alert. I'm seriously wondering whether this case on the Westerdam is a result of a false-positive. There have been postings on here that the results of that test aren't exactly the most reliable. Its curious that her husband had pneumonia but also tested negative, despite her supposedly being infected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markanddonna Posted February 17, 2020 #397 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) I am on a MSC shop in the Caribbean. While the ship generally seems healthy, there are some passengers with that wet, cruise cough and they seem to be the type who make no effort to contain their germs. I am watching a little kid lick her fingers at the buffet and see that it is relatively easy to spread germs and you need just one superspreader. I am taking a break from cruising for a while after these two weeks. I appreciated the thermal scan upon embarkation and banning specific populations from travel to our ports/country. Edited February 17, 2020 by Markanddonna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aprilF Posted February 17, 2020 #398 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 hours ago, HappyInVan said: So far, only the American woman from the Westerdam has been confirmed. Her husband has pneumonia but has tested negative. From HALrunner's post (1059) ... "This update from HAL an hour ago on FB: Westerdam Update: Westerdam remains alongside in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, where officials from the Cambodian Health Ministry are on board today to complete testing for COVID-19 on the 255 guests and 747 crew that are awaiting clearance. We anticipate this will take several days and greatly appreciate the thoroughness of all authorities involved in resolving this situation. Guests at a hotel in Phnom Penh have all completed the COVID-19 screening. Results are being returned when completed, with the first batch of 406 all being negative. Cleared guests may travel home, and arrangements are being made for those guests..." https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2731085-news-on-the-westerdam/page/43/#comments I've monitored this table for two weeks.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_Wuhan_coronavirus_outbreak The number of infected outside China/HK and the Diamond Princess (International Conveyance) is just 400+. I've watched it increase from 300+ last week. Most of the increase from Singapore. Most of the infected were travelers from China/HK and those they were visiting. AFAIK, the number of infected further down the chain are very small, since health authorities and travelers were on alert. That wiki table is interesting, looking at the clinically diagnosed portion. And I am taking from that there were no clinical diagnoses yesterday, all those are true test positives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted February 17, 2020 #399 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Looks like they have renamed 'others' to be Diamnd Princess and it's 454 cases. They added nearly 100 cases just yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare HappyInVan Posted February 17, 2020 #400 Share Posted February 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, aprilF said: That wiki table is interesting, looking at the clinically diagnosed portion. And I am taking from that there were no clinical diagnoses yesterday, all those are true test positives? The definitive test for COVID 19 is through a genetic testing technique utilizing PCR ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction I'm not an expert, but it should be pretty reliable. However, it takes many hours for the test to return a result. As a shortcut, a clinical tool (CT scan) is used to detect early pneumonia (the deadly phase of COVID 19). It just takes minutes to complete a digital image. Therefore, the Chinese government has included the results of clinical screening. It is unclear to me whether the clinical numbers are adjusted for negative laboratory tests. The infected woman from the Westerdam has a husband who has pneumonia, but has tested negative (so far). There is a theory that COVID 19 can cause pneumonia before laboratory test can show positive. So, the hospital will be testing samples from this patient continually. COVID 19 is a new disease. The scientists will analyze the case histories to understand its tricks and pitfalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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