Crew safety

[DeborahB47]

I'm new to posting here, so I hope you guys don't mind a newbie :) I am slowly becoming a Silversea regular and have done a few voyages on the Muse and Wind and once on the Cloud. A friend who has travelled with me sent me this article (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/silver-cloud-cruise-crew-covid-19-allegations-1.5533900) on the Cloud, written for CBC NEWS. It's heartbreaking if true. I posted it on one Silversea group to find out more, and was completely shut down almost instantly and told it's fake news by Barbara Muckermann (PR / Marketing Director). The comments were disabled immediately so I couldn't ask more questions. Like why would anyone lie about something like this? Why would they risk their jobs for a lie? It made no sense. 

I couldn't help feel there was more to it, so I got in touch with a couple of crew members I know already via Facebook to ask some questions.

 

One was still on a Silversea ship, waiting to be repatriated, and the other had just been repatriated and was on their way home from the Cloud. They both said that the ship crew were gathered together when the article came out, and reminded several times from HR/management on board, that that these 'expedition' crew who had spoken to the press were wrong to do so and were betraying the company, and that they were lying to get superior treatment. They were also told if anyone spoke out any further about anything on board, the whole ship would have their internet cut completely.

 

But the Cloud crew member said he was close friends with some of the expedition staff and that he had spoken to them about the situation - and that everything they said in the article was true. That they were threatened with no repatriation if they didn't sign a reduced pay, and then a zero pay contract! He also said that he and his friends were also given the same terms - ending in no pay at all towards the end, but they did not question it as they all so desperately wanted to get home and were scared the company would not allow them the flights.

He said it depended on your job position, what you were told and how you were treated. The crew were told because these expedition people complained they are now no longer hireable and will never work for Silversea again. They were all lied to about when they would get home - and were promised they could all leave in Tenerife. But then as they approached Tenerife, Silversea decided instead to combine the three ships (one of which had been infected) and found it was cheaper to take everyone to the UK, and hope to be let in. Apparently crew were told the UK was not doing health checks and so no one would notice that they were combined with an infected ship!!! They were also told there were no flights anyway from Tenerife. But then once this article hit the media, the team who complained were given tickets home... from Tenerife!

 

Now I know the industry is in a rough place, and there has been some seriously bad press around this pandemic, but I am shocked at Silversea for this. Until now, I loved everything about the company. Their crew is their biggest asset. It is those happy, genuinely kind faces that have kept me coming back and I am sure many of us feel the same. I expect more of a company who depend on the loyalty of their crew to provide such good service. They would be nothing without the crew and let's face it, the sales teams and office staff aren't nearly as amazing as the crew!!! I saw after I posted in the Silversea group that there have been back to back videos on Silversea's Facebook of the Cloud crew "having fun". No other ship, just videos from the Cloud. All expressing how happy and well looked after the crew on the Cloud are. Seems strange it is only that ship producing videos. I suspect this is a way to destroy any rumours and press sniffing around.

 

I feel so sad that they have been lied to, threatened and their health put at risk like this! What happens if they had the disease on board still, and the ship crews were combined. They will only find out in a week or so when they get sick!!! But I guess by then it won't be the company's problem.

Worse still, they have got away with it now as there is no way to prove any of it happened. Even though the crew know the truth, their jobs have been threatened and they have been told that the people who did speak out will not be rehired. It's just disgusting, really. Inhumane!

 

I have another cruise pre-booked in the Spring on the Muse and I am seriously considering cancelling. I think the good and not so good operators will be exposed, and it sounds like this may be happening here. Having probed some more (and using the Ship Tracker app), I see the Muse and Explorer (also infected) are at the Panama coastline, where a little googling tells me the borders are shut. What do they plan to do for those crews there?? Will they wait it out? Or will the company try to get them to a place they can be repatriated from like LA or Miami. It's not that far in the grand scheme of things!! I am watching this very closely and feel this will be my decider on whether I can keep my loyalty to Silversea. At the end of the day, these people are human beings and they just be terrified, just like us, for their families and about when they can get home. It makes me feel pretty sick when I think about it :(

I also don't appreciate being told to "stop spreading fake news" and then being cut off so I can't have a voice. Why do they not want these questions asked if they have done nothing wrong?

 

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts and if anyone has heard anything more... I hope the remaining crew members get home safely, soon, and that this company are doing everything in their power to get those people home! At the end of the day, that is what matters most.

 

 

 

 

[alexandria]

Who knows what is true and what isn't since that is the only article that has appeared on the subject and it is entirely based upon anonymous sources.

 

I do find it odd that the expedition crew, who were reportedly the anonymous employees the article is based upon, have all been repatriated, all were reportedly told they would not be hired again, and yet there have been no follow up articles to date on the issue and no indication that any of the "complaining" crew has now come forward publicly to speak on the issue.  It would seem to be easy enough to establish whether or not the crew has been or is being paid.

 

Today's media is, in my opinion, not a reliable source for information, so I take everything I read or hear online with a grain of salt.  So who knows.  I'm not going to make a judgment based upon one single article quoting only anonymous sources.

[Stumblefoot]

9 minutes ago, DeborahB47 said:

No other ship, just videos from the Cloud. All expressing how happy and well looked after the crew on the Cloud are. Seems strange it is only that ship producing videos. I suspect this is a way to destroy any rumours and press sniffing around.

Newbies are certainly welcome here!  And, I don’t think you will be censored in the same way as you were on whatever site you are referring to in your post.

 

I think you will find lots of good folks here have acquaintances / friends who have been sailing on the Cloud since well before the Covid-19 outbreak forced the cancellation of her post Antarctic season itineraries and can chime into the validity of your conspiracy theory.  I do wonder though, why you feel it is strange the Cloud is producing videos and somehow the intent is so SS can conduct a major coverup operation?  To me, another explanation is that the Cloud is the only ship in the fleet that has a full time videographer on board currently and as such, is the only ship able to produce such a video to share with crew families back home.  I would imagine there are dozens of other reasons too that aren’t as sinister as what you suggest.

[DeborahB47]

Alexandria, I completely agree on that. But I guess they had to remain anonymous as they were probably trying to protect themselves at that time, not knowing what reaction they would good (understandably the company wouldn't have been happy).

 

But having spoken to the crew (who are not expedition) and hearing their thoughts, it sounds like this did happen. But even the non expedition crew is afraid of not being rehired!

[DeborahB47]

1 minute ago, Stumblefoot said:

Newbies are certainly welcome here!  And, I don’t think you will be censored in the same way as you were on whatever site you are referring to in your post.

 

I think you will find lots of good folks here have acquaintances / friends who have been sailing on the Cloud since well before the Covid-19 outbreak forced the cancellation of her post Antarctic season itineraries and can chime into the validity of your conspiracy theory.  I do wonder though, why you feel it is strange the Cloud is producing videos and somehow the intent is so SS can conduct a major coverup operation?  To me, another explanation is that the Cloud is the only ship in the fleet that has a full time videographer on board currently and as such, is the only ship able to produce such a video to share with crew families back home.  I would imagine there are dozens of other reasons too that aren’t as sinister as what you suggest.

 

Thank you for the warm welcome. I appreciate that I won't be censored here. I only ask these questions out of concern for people who may not have such a loud voice. While it is a hard thing to say definitely happened, I have had a crew member tell me personally it is true... so I don't see why they would lie?

 

[FlyingScotSailors]

4 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

 To me, another explanation is that the Cloud is the only ship in the fleet that has a full time videographer on board currently and as such, is the only ship able to produce such a video to share with crew families back home. 

 

The videographer on the Cloud, Willem, is a South African citizen, and was allowed to disembark in Cape Town. South African nationals were the only crew members able to get off in Cape Town, and he actually got off a day before we were allowed to disembark.

[Observer]

You several times refer to an "infected" ship, imply that the crew are in danger of contracting COVID 19 and taking it into the UK, and that SS is acting irresponsibly.

 

As best I can gather, the infection to which you refer was on Shadow in early March-- one passenger who had been on the ship for several days.  When he presented with symptoms, I understand he was promptly removed and hospitalized.  I am told there was testing of crew who had contact with him, and passengers were quarantined as a cautionary step.  There was to my knowledge no other COVID passenger or crew member on the ship.  The ship was in no way infected.  A single passenger, sadly, was.

 

And, to repeat, all of this occurred nearly six weeks ago.  If there were other infections they would surely have presented by now.

 

I think it is irresponsible to suggest that because of Silversea's actions in repatriating crew that "their health [was] put at risk like this."

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Observer

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, DeborahB47 said:

...so I don't see why they would lie?

 

Who knows.  People lie for all sorts of reasons. 

With that said, while I personally know some crew members on the Cloud who have a completely different perspective to the story you shared, I am neither saying the sources to the article, nor the crew member you've corresponded with, are lying.  It's just there are usually two sides to every story as experienced by different people involved in the same situation.

[DeborahB47]

That's absolutely fair enough, my guy did say everyone has different opinions on whether these people should have spoken out about it too, and also some people may not even know what happened or have any insight. I really would hope it is not true as I would hate to think anyone is being mistreated, especially by a company I have loved and supported in the past.

 

I would just hope that any cruise ship company would always consider crew health and safety as a priority.

[DeborahB47]

2 hours ago, Observer said:

You several times refer to an "infected" ship, imply that the crew are in danger of contracting COVID 19 and taking it into the UK, and that SS is acting irresponsibly.

 

As best I can gather, the infection to which you refer was on Shadow in early March-- one passenger who had been on the ship for several days.  When he presented with symptoms, I understand he was promptly removed and hospitalized.  I am told there was testing of crew who had contact with him, and passengers were quarantined as a cautionary step.  There was to my knowledge no other COVID passenger or crew member on the ship.  The ship was in no way infected.  A single passenger, sadly, was.

 

And, to repeat, all of this occurred nearly six weeks ago.  If there were other infections they would surely have presented by now.

 

I think it is irresponsible to suggest that because of Silversea's actions in repatriating crew that "their health [was] put at risk like this."

 

 

 

 

Hi Observer, I take your points completely. I would say it wasn't the best idea to combine the ships because, as we now know, you can carry the virus and be asymptomatic. ie. nothing would show up on tests. While I agree it is unlikely anyone might be infected on board, it was a risk to take to put a 100% healthy crew with potential carriers. Not only in health terms, but because when they reached their next port, there was a risk, if questioned, they may not have been able to disembark due to previously being in the vicinity of COVID-19 positive patients. I'm not saying they shouldn't be repatriate them, of course they should, but they certainly needed to be more careful and perhaps they could have brought both ships together to avoid that risk. There were ways around it that perhaps weren't best for saving money, but were definitely a safer alternative.

[Observer]

11 minutes ago, DeborahB47 said:

 

 While I agree it is unlikely anyone might be infected on board, it was a risk to take to put a 100% healthy crew with potential carriers. 

 

What is the logic behind the distinction between "l00% healthy crew" and "potential carriers"?  Nearly every human being is a potential carrier.   Members of your "100% healthy crew" could well be asymptomatic carriers.  How do you know they are "100% healthy"?  It has been nearly six weeks since the COVID-infected passenger was taken off Shadow.  Symptoms would have presented by now if any Shadow crew was infected.   

 

I really think you owe Silversea an apology.

[WesW]

DeborahB47; no worries about censorship/deletion of posts here, unless our Silversea cruise critic Host Dan believes you have violated cruise critic's rules.

 

Having cruised in February/most of March with this Silver Cloud Expedition team and Silver Cloud Crew from 3+ weeks (along with FlyingScotSailors--hi Peter and Ann), will share what a very experienced Expedition team member told me about this article:  I don't agree with the spin put on the situation by these team members. It is extremely difficult to be in a situation with so much uncertainty and we don't have enough information to second guess decisions being made, aboard and on shore.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by WesW

[MrsWaldo]

1 hour ago, DeborahB47 said:

I would say it wasn't the best idea to combine the ships

  Except that,  in many cases the cruise lines have been granted one slot in a port.  Think of what happened off the coast of Sydney not too long ago...

 

Crew were swapped between several different ships of different lines in order to get them to a suitable port for their repatriation.

 

SS crew were fortunate in that the company put them on their own ships and majority of the crew would know one another.  

 

I'm not going to weigh in on allegations etc because TBH all anyone here gets is the POV of someone else so in that regard discussion is a moot point.  If crew are truly that unhappy with their employer they can always fight to get another job.

 

 

[DeborahB47]

22 hours ago, Observer said:

 

What is the logic behind the distinction between "l00% healthy crew" and "potential carriers"?  Nearly every human being is a potential carrier.   Members of your "100% healthy crew" could well be asymptomatic carriers.  How do you know they are "100% healthy"?  It has been nearly six weeks since the COVID-infected passenger was taken off Shadow.  Symptoms would have presented by now if any Shadow crew was infected.   

 

I really think you owe Silversea an apology.

 

Hi Observer, 

Thank you for your opinion. I won’t be apologising to Silversea because I trust what the crew member I have spoken to has said to me. I have no reason not to. I also agree with other comments here, that perhaps various crew members had a different take on what happened. From what I am understanding, each team is treated differently. Naturally, some crew seem to agree with what the article states and some do not. Either way, as I say, I trust the young man’s opinion of who I have spoken to. And that gives me grounds to think perhaps not everyone feels they were treated okay. But as someone says above, it is up to the crew to then take this up with management or make their next decisions based on their experiences.

[alexandria]

I saw your post on this on the Silversea Passengers group on Facebook as well.  It looked like your Facebook account was created on April 20, the day before your post there.  Am I incorrect about that?

[Observer]

52 minutes ago, DeborahB47 said:

 

 I also agree with other comments here, that perhaps various crew members had a different take on what happened. From what I am understanding, each team is treated differently. 

 

But do you not understand that not all crew/staff on ships are Silversea employees and the "management" with which they might "take up" matters may be different in different cases?  

 

Many are hired and paid by different organizations and thus have different pay/benefits.  For example, the doctor and nurse are contractors with one company that provides services to Silversea.  The spa personnel work for an entirely different company.  The boutique personnel for a third company.  I think I recall being told by a member of The Voices of Silversea that they are hired by a company independent of Silversea.  Etc.  

 

I know of one such person who felt deeply aggrieved several years ago that s/he would not be transported to the airport with disembarking crew.  A friend of the same nationality who was a core Silversea had far more attractive routing to their common destination than this employee of a concessionaire.

 

I do not know the details of the employment of excursion staff, but I would assume they are contract workers for a short period of time:  the expert on Antarctic fauna is not likely to know that much about ancient history of Northern Europe.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by Observer

[RachelG]

I read the article and have to say, it is written cast in a pretty inflammatory tone.  I know many of the crewmembers on the Cloud, a couple pretty well, and who have a pretty different perspective on the situation.  I don't think there was any nefarious intent on producing the video.  I view it as a way to communicate with the outside world.

I am sure the expedition team members on board were pretty upset, as I would be, because they mostly work on short term contracts and were expecting to get home way sooner.  That probably accounts for some of the anger.

One thing I can definitively say is that the SHIPS are not infected.  The virus couldn't lay around for weeks with no one becoming infected.  The people on board are not at health risk from the virus while on the ship as it has been totally quarantined for so long.   So no need for social distancing on the ship currently. They will be at risk once they disembark though.

[NJ Cruiserman]

23 hours ago, alexandria said:

I saw your post on this on the Silversea Passengers group on Facebook as well.  It looked like your Facebook account was created on April 20, the day before your post there.  Am I incorrect about that?

So, pretty much a thread of hearsay started by a new poster to complain about something that does not affect them, on at least two social media sites.🙁

[Stumblefoot]

As the world opens up, I had no idea there were still in the neighborhood of 62,000 crew on board the worldwide cruise fleet awaiting repatriation.  According to this Miami Herald article, it sounds like the industry is close to reaching an agreement with the CDC to begin getting these crew members home.

[les37b]

11 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

As the world opens up, I had no idea there were still in the neighborhood of 62,000 crew on board the worldwide cruise fleet awaiting repatriation.  According to this Miami Herald article, it sounds like the industry is close to reaching an agreement with the CDC to begin getting these crew members home.

 

 

What... wait..... we all need them soon for when sailings start back up shortly! lol

 

I jest... Must be difficult times for the crew in these circumstances... It was certainly great to see the videos produced by them occupying their time whilst in ship lockdown.

 

I'm fairly sure most of the crew were transferred in Tenerife to sail on the Cloud to Southampton to fly home. Didn't get it confirmed though.

[Silver Spectre]

1 hour ago, les37b said:

 

 

I'm fairly sure most of the crew were transferred in Tenerife to sail on the Cloud to Southampton to fly home. Didn't get it confirmed though.

The Filipino crew are still on the Spirit in Southampton and still not sure when they can go home!

[les37b]

2 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

The Filipino crew are still on the Spirit in Southampton and still not sure when they can go home!

 

Ive not really paid too much attention to the Spirit, but had thought it was in Marseille.

 

Strange goings on. The cloud did make the same journey. Om surprised they would have needed 2 ships to do that?

 

[Daveywavey70]

I think I saw something that said the Spirit was in the UK at Southampton. 

[les37b]

6 hours ago, Daveywavey70 said:

I think I saw something that said the Spirit was in the UK at Southampton. 

 

Oh yes, it 100% was and still is (albeit just outside and east of the IOW right now.)

 

I was just surprised that Spirit also made the journey following the footsteps of the cloud a couple of weeks back.