Social distancing on a cruise ship

[mscdivina2016]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:14 PM, Sunseeker810 said:

So, I just got off the phone with NCL.  I asked if they were planning on sailing with a lesser capacity in order to social distance on the pool deck.  The answer was no.  They do however plan to space out the chairs.  I said that it can be impossible to get a chair as it is.  I was told to go out earlier.  I am usually out there by 7AM.  Perhaps I should go out at 3AM???

 

Once we resume cruising in 2022, yes 2022.... I doubt they will be allowed by CDC to sail at full capacity.

Here in Florida we hit 15000+ cases today.

People are ignoring everything so the chance of any of our 5 ports opening is not on the table.

SO your chance of a deck chair will be good.

Steve

[ECCruise]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:14 PM, RocketMan275 said:

It they are being used improperly then what is the point of requiring their use?  People aren't dumb.

 

No validity after that point.

People are dumb. Look around.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

No validity after that point.

People are dumb. Look around.

People are not so dumb that they cannot discern that wearing masks is ineffective.

[ECCruise]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

People are not so dumb that they cannot discern that wearing masks is ineffective.

Ineffective according to whom, pray tell?

[yearsofcruising]

I , too, spoke to my PCC 2 days ago. Things are so " iffy ". Knowing him 5 yrs & 6 cruises & hoping he's telling the truth . Islands are up in the air as to where , when , & how. I even mentioned the same pool deck seating procedure . Impossible ! would have to change my suite to camping out !

They are also counting on cancellations to bring capacity down on the more current cruises.

I surrender until my next cancellation..

[RocketMan275]

12 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Ineffective according to whom, pray tell?

The masks are ineffective since most do not wear them in a manner that would make them effective.  

A cloth mask made out of  t-shirt isn't effective regardless of how it's worn.

[ECCruise]

7 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The masks are ineffective since most do not wear them in a manner that would make them effective.  

A cloth mask made out of  t-shirt isn't effective regardless of how it's worn.

Initial comment, redux.

[Samstress]

 

 

[Samstress]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The masks are ineffective since most do not wear them in a manner that would make them effective.  

A cloth mask made out of  t-shirt isn't effective regardless of how it's worn.

Then people need to learn how to wear them effectively...end of problem!

[npcl]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The masks are ineffective since most do not wear them in a manner that would make them effective.  

A cloth mask made out of  t-shirt isn't effective regardless of how it's worn.

A cloth mask out of a t-shirt is less effective, but not totally ineffective.  Even the poorest material for a mask (t-shirt or Bandana) will still filter 10% of particles.  Even more important a test of particle distance during a simulated cough that without a mask reached 9 feet, went less than 5 feet with a t-shirt mask.  A three layer surgical mask held the particles to less than a foot.

 

It is not my first choice and clearly not what I would recommend.  While it is the least effective of mask materials, it is still better than no mask.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Samstress said:

Then people need to learn how to wear them effectively...end of problem!

Perhaps we should have mask classes, practical exercises, and a final exam before people are allowed out of the house?

[RocketMan275]

27 minutes ago, npcl said:

A cloth mask out of a t-shirt is less effective, but not totally ineffective.  Even the poorest material for a mask (t-shirt or Bandana) will still filter 10% of particles.  Even more important a test of particle distance during a simulated cough that without a mask reached 9 feet, went less than 5 feet with a t-shirt mask.  A three layer surgical mask held the particles to less than a foot.

 

It is not my first choice and clearly not what I would recommend.  While it is the least effective of mask materials, it is still better than no mask.

And, how effective are these masks when they're not properly worn or properly cleaned?

[RocketMan275]

4 hours ago, ECCruise said:

Ineffective according to whom, pray tell?

If masking orders are effective, then why are cases increasing?

[Outerdog]

34 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

If masking orders are effective, then why are cases increasing?

 

Masking orders don't do anything.

 

People actually following the orders does. Take a look around.

[Edinburghgirl1]

Melbourne Australia has  200 new infections a day and has gone into full lockdown for 6 weeks. Florida has 15,000 in one day and are thinking of sending their kids back to school! Says it all. 

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, Edinburghgirl1 said:

Melbourne Australia has  200 new infections a day and has gone into full lockdown for 6 weeks. Florida has 15,000 in one day and are thinking of sending their kids back to school! Says it all. 

Indeed, it really beggars belief!!

 

The UK, particularly England, has likewise made a terrible botch of Covid-19....but, at least they are taking action with localised spikes e.g. the city of Leicester remains in lockdown, and this past weekend a fruit farm in Herefordshire has been fully quarantined following 73 cases and 200 workers are quarantined.

[beerman2]

8 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Perhaps we should have mask classes, practical exercises, and a final exam before people are allowed out of the house?

Or people start using common sense. It's  been around for years and some of us older people know how to use it.

[Samstress]

6 hours ago, Edinburghgirl1 said:

Melbourne Australia has  200 new infections a day and has gone into full lockdown for 6 weeks. Florida has 15,000 in one day and are thinking of sending their kids back to school! Says it all. 

And opening Disneyland yesterday....

 

[ColeThornton]

16 minutes ago, Samstress said:

And opening Disneyland yesterday....

 

 

Opening Disneyland at this time seems like a really Goofy thing to do.

[dcipjr]

Masks are part of the pandemic toolkit, and by themselves, they are limited in their effectiveness.

 

In order of effectiveness:

 

1. Stay-at-home orders: Everyone stays home unless there is an absolutely essential reason to be out (need food, need supplies, cannot work from home).
2. Social distancing: When you have to go out, stay six feet away from others. Being six feet away is enough most of the time.
3. Wear a mask: if you have to be near others, it may be hard to stay six feet away at all times, and the mask covers you if you accidentally become too close to someone else—or when six feet away isn't enough (sneezing, for example).

 

These three tactics aren't going to solve the pandemic on their own, but they greatly slow the spread. 

 

Staying at home covers most of the cases, since person-to-person contact spreads the virus, but not everyone can stay home all the time. Social distancing helps mitigate spread that occurs because people can't stay home. But it's hard to stay six feet away from everyone at all times when you're out, and sometimes six feet isn't enough—so masking helps mitigate the cases that slip through the cracks of staying at home + social distancing. 

 

If you follow that stay-at-home + social distancing + masking recipe, it's very effective for stopping the virus: look at New Zealand, or New York City.

 

The US as a whole did not follow the recipe consistently.

 

So now you've got people are saying it's a bad recipe.

 

And they're bored.

 

And they're going to Disney World.

Edited July 13, 2020 by dcipjr

[hamrag]

6 hours ago, beerman2 said:

Or people start using common sense. It's  been around for years and some of us older people know how to use it.

Indeed, and we have 3 adult kids 30+ who also know how to use common sense....I am certain there are countless millions of other younger people with common sense.

 

In my experience, common sense is not always related to age.....consider a certain American in his 70's or a certain Brit in his 50's, both carrying significant Domestic and International influence! 😉

[beerman2]

18 minutes ago, hamrag said:

Indeed, and we have 3 adult kids 30+ who also know how to use common sense....I am certain there are countless millions of other younger people with common sense.

 

In my experience, common sense is not always related to age.....consider a certain American in his 70's or a certain Brit in his 50's, both carrying significant Domestic and International influence! 😉

There are exceptions to everything , for the “most” part common sense is a fading thing.

[HaveWeMetYet]

A little science on social distancing.

 

In general, there exists an accepted notion of a 2-m safe exclusion zone to prevent possible droplet transmission from an infected person to a susceptible host; however, there are no comprehensive studies to support such a phenomenon. Wells (1934) has supported the 2-m exclusion zone concept taking into account the evaporation-falling curve. Wells (1934) has postulated that large droplets (> 100 μm) will fall to the floor within a horizontal distance of 2 m from the source. Simple calculations, assumptions, and inadequate empirical data of Wells's study have been later speculated by Xie et al. (2007). Xie et al. (2007) have corroborated that for respiratory exhalation flows, the larger droplets (diameter between 60 μm and 100 μm) were, depending on the exhalation air velocity and relative humidity of the air, carried away for more than 6 m of horizontal distance.

Moreover, recent experiments conducted after COVID-19 contagion by Bourouiba (2020) and Loh et al. (2020) have been in agreement with the findings of Xie et al. (2007). Xie et al. (2007) have reported that pathogen-bearing droplets of all sizes can travel for almost 7–8 m during sneezes and for more than 2 m (maximum of 4.5 m) during coughs.

 

A little mask science.

 

Similarly, another study has elaborated that a surgical mask (that filtered 89% of viral particles) was about three times better in controlling the viral transmission than that of a homemade mask made of a teeshirt and cotton towel (Davies et al., 2013). Davies et al. (2013) have further iterated that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but with limited success.

With N95 and elastomeric respirators worn, 5% leakage of droplets and a cloud of aerosols could be expected (Fig. 3c and d). None of these masks is guaranteed to cut off SARS-CoV-2 fully; hence, social distancing is vital to be adopted, especially in the indoor environment.

 

And there is your problem with avoiding viral transmission on a cruise ship. Within a few hours virtually all masks will be contaminated but about 100 percent of passengers will use the same mask for the duration of the cruise.

[d9704011]

4 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

And there is your problem with avoiding viral transmission on a cruise ship. Within a few hours virtually all masks will be contaminated but about 100 percent of passengers will use the same mask for the duration of the cruise.

Additionally, there is the phenomenon of viral quantum tunnelling. Imagine, if you will, that the droplet is like the electron approaching the barrier (in our case some tissue or cloth).  There is a chance it could make it through.  Rather than reproduce all this here, I’ll refer you to this very simple explanation...

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/quantum_tunneling.html

[fisherguy]

20 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

People are not so dumb that they cannot discern that wearing masks is ineffective.

So again you are saying that masks are not effective because people aren't wearing them properly?  Because all the experts and scientific research say that they are effective in stopping your spray of virus infected droplets if they were used properly.

 

So these same people can probably use a computer, operate most basic household appliances, and be able to drive a car yet you are saying they cannot figure out that the two loops that masks come with go around your ears?  and that the rest of the mask should cover your nose and mouth?  Are they dumb? or are they just refusing to wear them properly because they are apathetic or just defiant?