Canadian Passengers only cruises? (covid times)

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, rob902 said:

The province we live in has had ZERO new covid cases in the past few weeks. 

So although we know it can change quickly, from one bad apple, the fewer bad apples you touch the better.  🙂  So assuming all passengers and crew start covid free, then the only safeguard you have from random accidental infection is masks and space - it is really that simple. 

 

 

Ok, but I still don't understand how this is Canada specific.  If everyone boarding has to provide proof of being COVID-free, can't it be anyone?  Or are you wanting Canada-specific because of the border closure?  Either way, I'm still not grasping how any cruise is a good idea for those who are supposedly so much more "serious" than those of other countries. 🤔

[Nic6318]

3 hours ago, cbr663 said:

 

It really isn't that simple as there is practically no way that you can guarantee that anyone who tests COVID free remains COVID free.  The tests results are simply a moment in time.  The CDC just provided an example in its extended No Sail Order of crew members on board of four different Royal Caribbean ships that reported no cases on board yet 55 crew tested positive when tested by required shoreside testing.  Asymptomatic cases are a real challenge with this virus.

 

This isn't the case of bad apples.  It's the challenges of a dynamic virus and the limits that we have to detect and treat the disease.

 

Hi

 

What you say is true, but in a region where no new cases are being seen for a period of time, you do need to have something change for any outbreak to prevail for long. Even with a asymptomatic person (without getting into where they contracted it), where there are in an area where there are no new cases), can't remain an (unknown) asymptomatic carrier forever. They would either pass on the virus, or they get better. Specific to where the person you responded to, they live in an area that has restricted access to the province. For example, I would not be allowed to visit that province.

 

You also have to realize that once you get to a low enough number of new cases each day, with follow up on contacts, you do get to a point that while there is an understanding that nothing has gone away, it becomes manageable. When you look at a province such as where I live, with around 15 million people, and new cases around 100 a day, it isn't as threatening as it once was. Just like the town and area where I live hasn't had any cases (yet), even in the nursing home. Granted it's a small town, but I would have to be paranoid to not feel comfortable here. You still are required to do the social distancing, wear masks, etc... We have all heard it before, it works. 

[K32682]

The problem remains however that you are cramming a large number of people into a relatively small space for an extended period of time.  While it is true that Canada has not been hit as hard as other countries, notably the USA, all it takes is one person on board for a week to spread the virus to others. 

 

I would no more take a cruise at the current time even in Canada than I would book in to a long term care home for an extended stay. 

[ldubs]

Canada only cruise with only Canadian passengers.  Seems I read on one of the threads about something similar being discussed in the EU.    

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, ldubs said:

Canada only cruise with only Canadian passengers.  Seems I read on one of the threads about something similar being discussed in the EU.    

The big problem with that is the Coastal Shipping Act, Canada's equivalent of the Jones Act and PVSA in one package.  That would have to be a Canadian flag ship.  Cruises in Europe are being done with EU member nation flagged vessels, as per their cabotage laws.

[Nic6318]

10 hours ago, K32682 said:

The problem remains however that you are cramming a large number of people into a relatively small space for an extended period of time.  While it is true that Canada has not been hit as hard as other countries, notably the USA, all it takes is one person on board for a week to spread the virus to others.  

 

Hi 

 

You are absolutely right. 

 

That is why it is so important that the numbers seen within the greater population are low enough to be considered approaching zero. Take for instance, current #'s for daily new cases in Canada and the U.S. One reporting 400 and the other 140,000. Even considering U.S. has 10x greater population, the numbers themselves show a problem. If you took two equal random samples of people and tested them, the numbers available suggest that you would get about 30x more cases in your U.S. group than from the other. 

 

So, would I get on a cruise with only Canadians, of course not. If I had to, and it was a choice of passengers only from U.S. vs. Canada, I would choose the group from Canada, as I can imagine most people would. Just as if the choice were a group from Canada vs. a group from New Zealand, I would happily jump ship and join the New Zealanders. So if you expand that, would I be willing to visit New Zealand, or Nova Scotia for that matter at this time? Of course, why not, they are experiencing no new cases. That's what the efforts from people have been striving for. The problem is, I am not allowed to visit those areas, I can't fault them. It has never been about how hard an area has been hit, it's about how hard the people in any given area work to reverse it. After all, the number of cases in "every" area of the world started with 1.

[ilikeanswers]

There was a river cruise line in Germany that started cruises for Germans only. They also had half the amount of passengers to allow for social distancing.

[ldubs]

17 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The big problem with that is the Coastal Shipping Act, Canada's equivalent of the Jones Act and PVSA in one package.  That would have to be a Canadian flag ship.  Cruises in Europe are being done with EU member nation flagged vessels, as per their cabotage laws.

 

Thanks.  I don't blame them.  

[GlamorousGirl]

So you’re apparently in favor of both discrimination and stereotyping huge groups of people... I have news for you. I’m American and my husband is Canadian. I’ve been in Canada since Trudeau exempted spouses from the border ban. I followed the 14 day quarantine obediently. I always social distance, even when Canadians around me aren’t. It’s a good thing my husband and I judged each other as individuals instead of stereotyping each other based on something we had no control over: where we were born. Doing that is no better than racism. By the way - I did not bring COVID here, did not have it before I came (I stayed in and got everything delivered to responsibly social distance back in the States) and have not gotten myself or anyone else sick. Don’t judge people you don’t know personally, because if you don’t you don’t know them. Stereotypes of everyone in any group is NEVER accurate.

[Nic6318]

Hi Glamorous Girl

 

Can you point to what exactly to you are considering "both discrimination and stereotyping huge groups of people".

 

Also can you expand on your thought of,  "By the way - I did not bring COVID here", what are you talking about? 

 

[LHT28]

7 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

So you’re apparently in favor of both discrimination and stereotyping huge groups of people... I have news for you. I’m American and my husband is Canadian. I’ve been in Canada since Trudeau exempted spouses from the border ban. I followed the 14 day quarantine obediently. I always social distance, even when Canadians around me aren’t.

Thank you for doing your part

How many daily cases  where you are in  Canada?

 

Obviously  some in Florida  do not feel the need to do  what is  sensible 

10,000 cases  daily  of Covid in Florida  alone 

[GlamorousGirl]

4 hours ago, Nic6318 said:

Hi Glamorous Girl

 

Can you point to what exactly to you are considering "both discrimination and stereotyping huge groups of people".

 

Also can you expand on your thought of,  "By the way - I did not bring COVID here", what are you talking about? 

 

Discrimination: banning a group of people because of something they had no control over: their place of birth. Only allowing Canadians is discriminating against others. That’s no better than banning a gender, certain ages, or certain races - also things that the person had no control of.

 

Stereotyping is accusing “Americans” of being irresponsible, rather than judging each individual based on their own behavior. Stereotyping is taking a group and attributing negative traits to them as a whole, judging people you don’t even know personally. Like Hitler did.

 

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen a forum post where a Canadian assumes every American is irresponsible and/or has COVID. So I was pointing out that neither applies to me, despite my place of birth.

[GlamorousGirl]

56 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Thank you for doing your part

How many daily cases  where you are in  Canada?

 

Obviously  some in Florida  do not feel the need to do  what is  sensible 

10,000 cases  daily  of Covid in Florida  alone 

There’s 22 reported cases in the town I’m in, which is a half hour outside of London. It’s important to point out those are only the reported cases because there’s no testing sites here and unless you have symptoms you can’t get a test. So who knows how many a-symptomatic cases there are?
 

Thank you for your wording “some in Florida” instead of “all.” I came from Florida. I had my groceries and all other needs delivered. Only went out to take walks in areas sparse of people, and always maintaining social distance. I never went out on social calls. The death rate is many times higher in New York and many other places. And the testing rate is among the highest in the world in Florida. I wish the whole world could have the same amount of testing so everyone would have a more accurate picture and be comparing apples to apples. But I don’t disagree that a lot (not all) are being irresponsible.

 

”Some” people are irresponsible everywhere. I see people here in Canada congregating in groups, not social distancing, and frequently going out for more than necessity purposes. Its on the news regularly. My husband takes more risks than I do. And I would argue testing should be more accessible in Canada. But I would never judge Canadians in general or all Canadians based on the actions of those being irresponsible.

[Nic6318]

50 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Discrimination: banning a group of people because of something they had no control over: their place of birth. Only allowing Canadians is discriminating against others. That’s no better than banning a gender, certain ages, or certain races - also things that the person had no control of.

 

Stereotyping is accusing “Americans” of being irresponsible, rather than judging each individual based on their own behavior. Stereotyping is taking a group and attributing negative traits to them as a whole, judging people you don’t even know personally. Like Hitler did.

 

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen a forum post where a Canadian assumes every American is irresponsible and/or has COVID. So I was pointing out that neither applies to me, despite my place of birth.

 

Hi 

 

You really should read your own words.

 

Travel restrictions are not discrimination. As an American you should understand that, considering they are quite common. You need to look at the reasoning for the restriction to be able to say it is discriminatory. 

 

Please point to where in this thread some has said "Americans are being irresponsible".

 

... and what does "Hitler" have to do with anything you are talking about. get real. 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Nic6318

[iancal]

Where we live in Canada we are seeing an uptick in covid.   People not wearing masks, crowded bars, crowded beaches, and at least one large (more than 10 people) family gathering.

 

We could care less if the cruise ship was filling with Americans, Canadians, Australians etc.  We have no plans to get on a cruise ship until there is a vaccine or solution to this.  As others have said....it only takes one person on board to spread the virus.

 

Plus, we have absolutely zero confidence that the cruise line would place our personal health and safety ahead of their profit.

[LHT28]

36 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

There’s 22 reported cases in the town I’m in, which is a half hour outside of London. It’s important to point out those are only the reported cases because there’s no testing sites here and unless you have symptoms you can’t get a test. So who knows how many a-symptomatic cases there are?
 

 

Is that for today?

The seems like a lot since they are going into stage 3  in your area

 I am fairly sure  anyone can get tested now   & if you  half hour from London  it is not unreasonable

I have to travel 1/2  to get the test 

We are still in Stage 2 of opening up things

 

Too bad you are only focusing on YOU & not the bigger picture

Stay safe

 

 

Anyway hijacking  a thread  is not allowed on CC

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Discrimination: banning a group of people because of something they had no control over: their place of birth. Only allowing Canadians is discriminating against others. That’s no better than banning a gender, certain ages, or certain races - also things that the person had no control of.

 

Unfortunately this is what is done during an infectious disease outbreak. People who live in a hot spots or red zones as they are being called travel wise will find themselves banned. The world did the same thing with China, then the EU and now the EU is doing the same thing to Americans. In Germany River Cruises are only accepting German bookings and when Hurtigruten first restarted they only took Norwegians. It is pretty much standard practice😕

Edited July 19, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[mom says]

1 hour ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Discrimination: banning a group of people because of something they had no control over: their place of birth. Only allowing Canadians is discriminating against others. That’s no better than banning a gender, certain ages, or certain races - also things that the person had no control of.

Restrictions due to public health concerns is hardly in the same category as racial or sex discrimination,  so your argument falls apart right there. Your country is being judged as a whole, not individually or by small locale. No different than any other country. And you might like to take a look at how many countries are barred entry into the US, and the "reasons" for those bans, before criticizing the decisions of others.

 

Curious as to whether you are so vehemently opposed to the cruises in Europe that are restricted to citizens of specific countries. 

[Aquahound]

28 minutes ago, K32682 said:

 

You are at less risk of acquiring COVID-19 in Canada than in Florida. Canada would like to keep you that way.  You're welcome.  

 

If Canada would like to keep it that way, why on Earth are ya'll proposing Canadian-only cruises?  Do you not realize that's a great way to make your numbers spike right now?  🤨

[mom says]

9 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

If Canada would like to keep it that way, why on Earth are ya'll proposing Canadian-only cruises?  Do you not realize that's a great way to make your numbers spike right now?  🤨

I don't think many, aside from the OP, would contemplate any such thing, even if it was possible. Which it isn't right now.

[K32682]

13 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

If Canada would like to keep it that way, why on Earth are ya'll proposing Canadian-only cruises?  Do you not realize that's a great way to make your numbers spike right now?  🤨

 

We agree.  I'm not proposing them and earlier posted that I would no more take a cruise Canadian or otherwise than book in for an extended stay at a long term care home.  

[Aquahound]

5 minutes ago, mom says said:

I don't think many, aside from the OP, would contemplate any such thing, even if it was possible. Which it isn't right now.

 

1 minute ago, K32682 said:

 

We agree.  I'm not proposing them and earlier posted that I would no more take a cruise Canadian or otherwise than book in for an extended stay at a long term care home.  

 

I would hope you're right.  I'm a proud American, but I love my northern neighbors.  I pray your numbers stay low.  

[cbr663]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

Where we live in Canada we are seeing an uptick in covid.   People not wearing masks, crowded bars, crowded beaches, and at least one large (more than 10 people) family gathering.

 

We could care less if the cruise ship was filling with Americans, Canadians, Australians etc.  We have no plans to get on a cruise ship until there is a vaccine or solution to this.  As others have said....it only takes one person on board to spread the virus.

 

3 hours ago, iancal said:

Plus, we have absolutely zero confidence that the cruise line would place our personal health and safety ahead of their profit.

 

We live in Canada and our area is also starting to experience an uptick in numbers.  It is to be expected as more and more people are moving around and socializing more.  That is how the virus spreads.  When people move, the virus moves.  And, when people decide to move to board ships, whether it is as a passenger or a crew member, the virus will also move aboard the ship.  It is inevitable.  Cruise ships will have outbreaks.

[Nic6318]

3 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

 

 

We live in Canada and our area is also starting to experience an uptick in numbers.  It is to be expected as more and more people are moving around and socializing more.  That is how the virus spreads.  When people move, the virus moves.  And, when people decide to move to board ships, whether it is as a passenger or a crew member, the virus will also move aboard the ship.  It is inevitable.  Cruise ships will have outbreaks.

 

Hi

 

Yes. As soon as people start being complacent, the virus will take advantage. I would imagine that within a week or two, if those numbers keep ticking up, some of the restrictions that were lifted will be put back in place. Perhaps in a regional manner, but I can see our premier coming down on the whole province. There would be no excuse to have come this far only to do a replay. Only with extremely low new cases will people be comfortable sending their children to school in the fall. If that doesn't happen, cruising will be the least of our problems. 

[rob902]

OK, my simple question about possible "safe" cruise suggestions has gotten a few appropriate suggestions, muddied with the other side conversation, thanks for all the feedback.

I will attempt to re-clarify my intended question: 

When ever cruising becomes active again, I am trying to decide how best to embark on a "safe" cruise.  Assuming that this happens before a vaccine is widely available.  For us that starts with ensuring all the crew and passengers are "safe" to begin with.

BUT the 2nd ingredient is "safe" behavior for all on board.  This would be so if a random case occurs from what ever source, that it's ability to spread to others on board will be minimized.  This implies physical distancing and masks most of the time.

 

My Canadian's are "safer" passengers assumption - and less likely to pass it around, are based on my own observations in our own province of the behavior of the many here.  (Yes there are always going to be exceptions), but all I have to go by is the statistics we have by country/province/state.  Contrasted by my observations on various Live Feed Web Cam feed's of various beaches outside of Canada - mostly in Florida.

 

Canadians are doing something right, because it has less than 50% the death rate PER CAPITA (e.g per Million people), from Covid, compared with the USA.  Also our number of new covid cases trend has been DECREASING weekly, contrasted with the USA continuing to have an increasing rate of change.  My assumption for this dramatic difference, is that the attitude and behavior of Canadians is  more conducive to minimizing the spread of virus in a closed environment like a cruise ship.

 

So in the end,  when the time is right for cruising again, I want to go on a ship that has passengers (and crew) that have a covid appropriate attitude and behavior.  How should I do that?

Best regards,