Crew retuning

[Hoopster95]

Sept 10 ... today's news... FDR did not lie a month ago

http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

 

Aug 6

Frank Del Rio, CEO of HCLH, on the NCL earnings conference call

 

"Asked about the status of the NCLH fleet, Del Rio noted that the majority of the corporation's vessels will be entering cold layup, also known as "minimum manning", within the next 30 to 45 days. A total of seven vessels, which were not named, will be kept in warm-layup status due to port regulations."

 

"Asked about the resumption of cruise, Del Rio stated that while the final two months of 2020 could see a limited return to operations, NCLH does not expect the majority of its fleet to re-enter service until the second quarter of 2021. The restart of the entire fleet would take approximately six months once the green-light is given."
 

So when is the green light being given? It has not been given yet.

When that happens, add approximately 6 months for some kind of "normalcy".

 

Thoughts @chengkp75 ?

Edited September 10, 2020 by Hoopster95

[sandebeach]

17 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

@sandebeachthanks for the link. 
 

Listening now. My feeling is the POM and the cruise lines are using “strong language” and emotion the get the CDC to start moving “now”.  
 

The key thing I heard was it took 14 weeks to hear back from the CDC the last time they submitted anything. If plans are submitted on September 21 they are afraid it could take another 14 weeks before they might hear anything back again. 
 

It certainly appears as though the CDC is in no hurry to jump to support the economy of Miami and Florida.  They are trying to stand united but against the CDC it seems to be a battle and they don’t know what tools they need to win. 

Yes, I did not know that the CDC took that long to initially get back to the cruise lines. Without being political, I do think that the election outcome will potentially affect whether the US government "nudges" CDC to move quickly on their review. 

[sandebeach]

13 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The conclusion was that as soon as the plans are submitted between Sept 18-21, Miami-Dade officials are going to get Congress involved to pressure the CDC into reviewing and coming to a conclusion ASAP.  Let's hope it works!

Miami also needs to inform our Governor about the importance of the ports and the cruise lines to Florida's economy. The Governor was not supportive last March when cruise ships were trying to return to Florida ports.  

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Yes, I did not know that the CDC took that long to initially get back to the cruise lines. Without being political, I do think that the election outcome will potentially affect whether the US government "nudges" CDC to move quickly on their review. 

 

I agree.  If Carnival has already restarted in Europe (Costa), the cruise lines can certainly do it here with the help of the CDC,  ports and local authorities. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

16 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The conclusion was that as soon as the plans are submitted between Sept 18-21, Miami-Dade officials are going to get Congress involved to pressure the CDC into reviewing and coming to a conclusion ASAP.  Let's hope it works!

You think cruising should be considered essential business?  I’m not sure the CDC should give in to peoples vacations/holiday. 
 

Chef hit the nail on the head. The CDC wants to insure that cruise lines don’t dump off sick and exposed cruisers into US Ports and further tax our healthcare system. Until they have a plan for that or the virus is no threat, don’t see cruises anytime soon. 
 

M8

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Miami also needs to inform our Governor about the importance of the ports and the cruise lines to Florida's economy. The Governor was not supportive last March when cruise ships were trying to return to Florida ports.  

 

Yes I remember when he didn't want some cruise ships to dock in Florida to let off passengers during the start of the crisis.  He stated he wanted the hospital beds reserved for Florida citizens only.  Now that the hospitals are not overwhelmed and our health system is not taxed like it was believed it could get, his views might change. 

[sandebeach]

38 minutes ago, island lady said:

 

My "maybe cruise" B2B Harmony 11/29 and 12/6 pricing has not gone down at all...for months still the same.  And I am after final payment.  Not sure if that is a good sign or not.  

I have a casino-comped balcony on Allure November 15. I was able to upgrade yesterday to a GS for only $1700. That tells me that the cruise is probably a No-Go. I have a casino-comped JS on Allure Feb. 7, and it was $1400 to upgrade to a GS, from a JS, so I am more hopeful for the February cruise. I find that prices on suites for 2021 are remaining high. 

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You think cruising should be considered essential business?  I’m not sure the CDC should give in to peoples vacations/holiday. 
 

Chef hit the nail on the head. The CDC wants to insure that cruise lines don’t dump off sick and exposed cruisers into US Ports and further tax our healthcare system. Until they have a plan for that or the virus is no threat, don’t see cruises anytime soon. 
 

M8

 

Miami-Dade officials and Miami port authorities want the cruise industry to restart as it is a 17 billion dollar industry for South Florida. The cruise lines are presenting health and safety protocols in a report they are hoping the CDC will accept. 

[sandebeach]

9 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You think cruising should be considered essential business?  I’m not sure the CDC should give in to peoples vacations/holiday. 
 

Chef hit the nail on the head. The CDC wants to insure that cruise lines don’t dump off sick and exposed cruisers into US Ports and further tax our healthcare system. Until they have a plan for that or the virus is no threat, don’t see cruises anytime soon. 
 

M8

Cruise industry has a major impact on economy of PortMiami. From the Port director, "...Between the cruise line stoppage in mid-March through September, the estimated direct revenue impact to the port is about $55 million,” Kuryla said. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Miami-Dade officials and Miami port authorities want the cruise industry to restart as it is a 17 billion dollar industry for South Florida. The cruise lines are presenting health and safety protocols in a report they are hoping the CDC will accept. 

Miami-Dade hasn’t opened bars and nightclubs and says they will not open until a vaccine available. Miami-Dade and Broward were the hardest hit with COVID19 in Florida. I think the POM is dreaming. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/therealdeal.com/miami/2020/09/09/miami-dade-mayor-bars-and-nightclubs-wont-reopen-until-theres-a-vaccine/amp/

 

M8

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

Sept 10 ... today's news... FDR did not lie a month ago

http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

 

Aug 6

Frank Del Rio, CEO of HCLH, on the NCL earnings conference call

 

"Asked about the status of the NCLH fleet, Del Rio noted that the majority of the corporation's vessels will be entering cold layup, also known as "minimum manning", within the next 30 to 45 days. A total of seven vessels, which were not named, will be kept in warm-layup status due to port regulations."

 

"Asked about the resumption of cruise, Del Rio stated that while the final two months of 2020 could see a limited return to operations, NCLH does not expect the majority of its fleet to re-enter service until the second quarter of 2021. The restart of the entire fleet would take approximately six months once the green-light is given."
 

So when is the green light being given? It has not been given yet.

When that happens, add approximately 6 months for some kind of "normalcy".

 

Thoughts @chengkp75 ?

Note that he says "of the entire fleet" would take 6 months, he does not say how long to get any one ship ready.

[Milwaukee Eight]

3 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Cruise industry has a major impact on economy of PortMiami. From the Port director, "...Between the cruise line stoppage in mid-March through September, the estimated direct revenue impact to the port is about $55 million,” Kuryla said. 

Not disputing the economic impact on the Port of Miami. Nothing going to happen until Miami-Dade and Broward allows it.  You can’t open up the POM until after Miami-Dade is open. 
 

That’s my opinion. 
 

M8

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Yes, I did not know that the CDC took that long to initially get back to the cruise lines. Without being political, I do think that the election outcome will potentially affect whether the US government "nudges" CDC to move quickly on their review. 

The CDC's mandate is not to help any economy, it is to ensure that infectious disease does not enter the US or travel between states.  You cannot be "not political" and want an administration to "nudge" a scientific organization to change its stand based on economy or politics.

20 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Miami also needs to inform our Governor about the importance of the ports and the cruise lines to Florida's economy. The Governor was not supportive last March when cruise ships were trying to return to Florida ports.  

 

17 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I agree.  If Carnival has already restarted in Europe (Costa), the cruise lines can certainly do it here with the help of the CDC,  ports and local authorities. 

Totally different scenario.

15 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You think cruising should be considered essential business?  I’m not sure the CDC should give in to peoples vacations/holiday. 
 

Chef hit the nail on the head. The CDC wants to insure that cruise lines don’t dump off sick and exposed cruisers into US Ports and further tax our healthcare system. Until they have a plan for that or the virus is no threat, don’t see cruises anytime soon. 
 

M8

The big difference between restarting European cruises and US cruises is our health care and insurance industries.  In Europe, there is free and unlimited health care, so the governments have long supported the infrastructure of public health, and therefore cannot deny anyone coming from a cruise ship the right to treatment in hospital.  In the US, as we know, a totally different picture, with government support of for-profit operated hospitals, and non-universal insurance, so the CDC does not want to burden any locale with another massive influx of patients.

 

Anyone who believes that the CDC is listening to any comments from cruisers who say "we're willing to take the risk", and the like, is dreaming.  They take their mandate seriously, and it has nothing to do with anyone's vacation.

[Hoopster95]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Note that he says "of the entire fleet" would take 6 months, he does not say how long to get any one ship ready.

 

I understand and very much agree....  FDR quoted himself above that cruising "could" resume prior to end 2020.

 

[logan25]

39 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You think cruising should be considered essential business?  I’m not sure the CDC should give in to peoples vacations/holiday. 
 

M8

You have to acknowledge that many non-essential businesses are currently allowed to operate.

Edited September 10, 2020 by logan25

[TheMastodon]

33 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

You think cruising should be considered essential business?  I’m not sure the CDC should give in to peoples vacations/holiday. 
 

Chef hit the nail on the head. The CDC wants to insure that cruise lines don’t dump off sick and exposed cruisers into US Ports and further tax our healthcare system. Until they have a plan for that or the virus is no threat, don’t see cruises anytime soon. 
 

M8

 

Every business is essential in the economic system - its one organism that exists because all parts are moving.  The backbone of this country's economy is small biz.  Folks, we will see in the next 12 months what this thing has truly done to our economy and it's not going to be pretty.  Buckle the kcuf up.   We see clients not paying loans right now to survive - goes without saying our banks can only absorb this for so much longer.   

 

And M8/Chef are 100% correct that cruise lines can't just disembark pax who are potentially sick because it will just continue to spread!  Spot on.  Is there a solution?  We'll see.  Perhaps the Abbot quick test system could be relied upon to test pax before disembarking to ensure they are ok.   Who knows!  Personally I don't see how cruising will be kosher w/ CDC during a pandemic unless there is 100% a way to see if the virus is being carried by a pax getting on a ship.  They have to keep it off the ships or it will be a train wreck.  

 

But, I push back saying that vacation/leisure isn't essential - every job is part of the economic ecosystem.  

[Milwaukee Eight]

15 minutes ago, logan25 said:

You have to acknowledge that many non-essential businesses are currently allowed to operate.

Not disputing that but you didn’t answer the question. 
 

My issue is personal. My son is an ICU Nurse at Miami Jackson Memorial, the largest hospital in Florida (I was born there). He has lost his boss and some staff to COVID19. Many staff are out after testing positive. It’s not fair to him for people willing to risk cruising and getting infected and then being transferred from the ship to Hospital/ICU. It’s not fair to others working in healthcare to sacrifice medical personnel so that they can vacation.  My boss is also in healthcare and it’s not fair to her to see patients that have COVID19 or exposed for someone on a cruise. 
 

Someone exposed or infected on a ship should be quarantined onboard or a facility other than a hospital that is maintained by the cruise industry. 
 

M8

Edited September 10, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[logan25]

Would you believe the same standard should apply to any non-essential business?

 

Certainly in that vein, all leisure and “vacation” businesses risk exposure which you feel unnecessary.  But that extends beyond ships, hotels, restaurants, air travel....

 

 (I acknowledge the personal nature of your concerns.  I am not disputing or diminishing.)

 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by logan25

[Milwaukee Eight]

5 minutes ago, logan25 said:

Would you believe the same should apply to any non-essential business?

Let me answer this way since this is a cruise site. 
 

The CDC required a plan from the Cruise lines that would address people infected, sick, and exposed. They wanted to see how the industry would deal with this. CDC I believe mentioned medical staff and facilities onboard to handle COVID19 patients. Quarantine plan. All this without dumping infected, sick, and exposed passengers in US Ports. I believe the first pass the Cruise lines ignored. 
 

If the cruise lines come up with a plan to meet those requirements, I don’t see why they couldn’t resume cruising. Hospital ships have been mentioned. Onshore facilities maintained and Administered by the Cruise lines within a bubble. Their Doctors, their staff. Quarantine is another issue as well. 
 

M8

[island lady]

What about airports and flights?  They are still going on for vacations..etc.   Resorts, hotels, theme parks..etc. are open.  

 

Losing 2 weeks on Radiance Alaska, we opted to replace with 2 weeks at a cabin in Homer AK.  Charter fishing, gift shops, stores, restaurants, (dining both inside and out), resorts, rentals, B&Bs, hotels, etc. were all open for business. (Though Anchorage had just recently closed restaurants to inside dining).  

 

Quarantine already goes on with cruise ships, they are quite good at it.  You catch Noro...you are quarantined into your cabin, room service comes with gloves and a mask.  

 

You can catch the virus on a plane (or anywhere else) just as well as a ship.  Sure...cruises are longer...but how long does it actually take to catch the virus?  That person that just passed you on the sidewalk....

 

If your number is up to catch it...it's up.   Not matter where you go. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by island lady

[Milwaukee Eight]

52 minutes ago, island lady said:

If your number is up to catch it...it's up.   Not matter where you go. 

I agree but you shouldn’t have the right to infect others, especially healthcare workers. Not to mention a cruise ship is like a can of sardines. 

I enjoyed your pictures of your Alaska vacation. That looked like a perfect way to vacation today. I don’t have an issue with people cruising, just as long as the cruise lines are prepared to handle infected, sick, and exposed and not let them disembark into US Ports. I think the CDC has been clear on this. 
 

Peace

 

M8

Edited September 10, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[pspercy]

Just a reminder, CDC wants cruisers' comments.

Window closes September 21.

Over 3,000 received so far.

 

  https://beta.regulations.gov/document/CDC-2020-0087-0001

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Miami-Dade hasn’t opened bars and nightclubs and says they will not open until a vaccine available. Miami-Dade and Broward were the hardest hit with COVID19 in Florida. I think the POM is dreaming. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/therealdeal.com/miami/2020/09/09/miami-dade-mayor-bars-and-nightclubs-wont-reopen-until-theres-a-vaccine/amp/

 

M8

 

The difference is that bars and nightclubs in Miami and especially South Beach were primarily responsible for the spike in cases that we had in this County.  Some restaurants were even doubling up as bars and nightclubs after midnight.  The demographics of the new cases were young millennials, Gen Yers and Gen Zers.  There had to be a crack down of their out-of-control partying in nightclubs and bars to the wee hours of the night -- it was a total free-for-all.  Hence the curfew and bar and nightclub closures.  These closures have very little economic impact to the local economy.

 

Whereas, economic impact to the Port of Miami as a result of the no-sail order is pretty huge -- directly and indirectly.  Many jobs and revenue have disappeared and it will take a while to get back to pre-pandemic times.  Not saying we should risk the lives of the front line workers by resuming cruises before it's safe.   An acceptable plan for the cruise lines operating out of the largest cruise port in the world to eventually resume business in a safe, cautious, and responsible manner is what the local authorities are seeking.  

 

 

[TheMastodon]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The CDC's mandate is not to help any economy, it is to ensure that infectious disease does not enter the US or travel between states.  You cannot be "not political" and want an administration to "nudge" a scientific organization to change its stand based on economy or politics.

 

Totally different scenario.

The big difference between restarting European cruises and US cruises is our health care and insurance industries.  In Europe, there is free and unlimited health care, so the governments have long supported the infrastructure of public health, and therefore cannot deny anyone coming from a cruise ship the right to treatment in hospital.  In the US, as we know, a totally different picture, with government support of for-profit operated hospitals, and non-universal insurance, so the CDC does not want to burden any locale with another massive influx of patients.

 

Anyone who believes that the CDC is listening to any comments from cruisers who say "we're willing to take the risk", and the like, is dreaming.  They take their mandate seriously, and it has nothing to do with anyone's vacation.

 

What?  Your logic about US vs Europe healthcare makes zero sense.  Do you think Europe wants an influx of patients to hospitals?  Do you think hospitals in United States want an influx of patients to hospitals?  No and No.  Has nothing to do with government run insurance vs private insurance.  

[island lady]

13 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree but you shouldn’t have the right to infect others, especially healthcare workers. Not to mention a cruise ship is like a can of sardines. 

I enjoyed your pictures of your Alaska vacation. That looked like a perfect way to vacation today. I don’t have an issue with people cruising, just as long as the cruise lines are prepared to handle infected, sick, and exposed and not let them disembark into US Ports. I think the CDC has been clear on this. 
 

Peace

 

M8

 

Thanks...and agree...but was actually talking about exposure that could come to you from anywhere.  Would never think that anyone would "have the right to infect others".  Not what I was talking about.   Those 10 hours we spent on the plane to get to Alaska both ways...was most definitely a "can of sardines".   Infection can come from anywhere.  

 

And yes..always worried about my sister.  She is one of the few specialists in Florida as an infectious disease doctor with her own clinic.  Believe me she is one busy lady.  Constant contact with CDC, and even the FBI has consulted with her (Bio terrorism fears).