Crew retuning

[logan25]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

An acceptable plan for the cruise lines operating out of the largest cruise port in the world to eventually resume business in a safe, cautious, and responsible manner is what the local authorities are seeking.  

 

 

Except the local authorities do not wield the power.  They may at some future point, but they do not now.

[livingonthebeach]

2 minutes ago, logan25 said:

Except the local authorities do not wield the power.  They may at some future point, but they do not now.

 

Of course --  and they hardly have the final say, but Florida is pretty influential State in the political realm. 

[sandebeach]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The CDC's mandate is not to help any economy, it is to ensure that infectious disease does not enter the US or travel between states.  You cannot be "not political" and want an administration to "nudge" a scientific organization to change its stand based on economy or politics.

 

Totally different scenario.

The big difference between restarting European cruises and US cruises is our health care and insurance industries.  In Europe, there is free and unlimited health care, so the governments have long supported the infrastructure of public health, and therefore cannot deny anyone coming from a cruise ship the right to treatment in hospital.  In the US, as we know, a totally different picture, with government support of for-profit operated hospitals, and non-universal insurance, so the CDC does not want to burden any locale with another massive influx of patients.

 

Anyone who believes that the CDC is listening to any comments from cruisers who say "we're willing to take the risk", and the like, is dreaming.  They take their mandate seriously, and it has nothing to do with anyone's vacation.

The resolution by the PortMiami Commission was about CDC responding in a timely and productive manner.

"...Commissioner Rebeca Sosa expressed frustration with the health officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for not allowing cruises to resume. 

She has called on the CDC to sign off on safety protocols the cruise industry wants to use aboard their ships.

“We are not telling them let us cruise tomorrow or let us cruise next month. We are telling them, review the plan, tell us what is right, what is wrong, so we can fix it because at the end of the day, you have thousands of residents of Miami Dade County and the state of Florida that depend on this industry for business,” she said.

[sandebeach]

4 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Not disputing the economic impact on the Port of Miami. Nothing going to happen until Miami-Dade and Broward allows it.  You can’t open up the POM until after Miami-Dade is open. 
 

That’s my opinion. 
 

M8

In Miami, unlike Broward, both the port of Miami and Miami International Airport are under the Mayor's office. The current Mayor has been very supportive of Miami's "cruise partners", but his term is up in November. No telling what the newly-elected  Mayor will feel or do, about any of the current COVID-related mandates. Broward is a different situation, and the Mayor of Broward is not over Port Everglades. 

[A&L_Ont]

 

4 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Miami-Dade hasn’t opened bars and nightclubs and says they will not open until a vaccine available. Miami-Dade and Broward were the hardest hit with COVID19 in Florida. I think the POM is dreaming. 

 

M8

 

After listening today the POM and cruise lines are working hard to apply political pressure to the CDC which won't work.  It really is a smaller scale version of the American economy reopening.

 

The item that people forget is the CDC holds the controls.  Even though "POM is the cruise hub to 40 Caribbean countries" and a driving economy in Southern Florida the POM does not control the strings to the CDC.  I'd say the POM and cruise industry are changing their technique, to hopefully have those in power operate the strings.  They might apply greater pressure with an upcoming election but I don't think it will work out.

 

On the call I did not hear any concrete talk about any health measures for sailing guests, other than the cruise lines have formed some consultation panels.  The lady hosting the discussion mentioned that the newest ships have the best air handling but from all the rumours I have heard only the small ships were thought to start at the return of cruises.  They also mentioned the private ports of call owned by the cruise lines, but until the nations that own them say you can open that is insignificant.  

 

I agree, there is a lot of wishful thinking at this moment in time.

 

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The CDC's mandate is not to help any economy, it is to ensure that infectious disease does not enter the US or travel between states.  You cannot be "not political" and want an administration to "nudge" a scientific organization to change its stand based on economy or politics.

 

Totally different scenario.

The big difference between restarting European cruises and US cruises is our health care and insurance industries.  In Europe, there is free and unlimited health care, so the governments have long supported the infrastructure of public health, and therefore cannot deny anyone coming from a cruise ship the right to treatment in hospital.  In the US, as we know, a totally different picture, with government support of for-profit operated hospitals, and non-universal insurance, so the CDC does not want to burden any locale with another massive influx of patients.

 

Anyone who believes that the CDC is listening to any comments from cruisers who say "we're willing to take the risk", and the like, is dreaming.  They take their mandate seriously, and it has nothing to do with anyone's vacation.

 

I fully believe what you have said, others will as well.  Some, not so much.

 

 

2 hours ago, island lady said:

What about airports and flights?  They are still going on for vacations..etc.   Resorts, hotels, theme parks..etc. are open.  

 

Losing 2 weeks on Radiance Alaska, we opted to replace with 2 weeks at a cabin in Homer AK.  Charter fishing, gift shops, stores, restaurants, (dining both inside and out), resorts, rentals, B&Bs, hotels, etc. were all open for business. (Though Anchorage had just recently closed restaurants to inside dining).  

 

Quarantine already goes on with cruise ships, they are quite good at it.  You catch Noro...you are quarantined into your cabin, room service comes with gloves and a mask.  

 

You can catch the virus on a plane (or anywhere else) just as well as a ship.  Sure...cruises are longer...but how long does it actually take to catch the virus?  That person that just passed you on the sidewalk....

 

If your number is up to catch it...it's up.   Not matter where you go. 

 

A cruise holiday is not the same as your great trip to Alaska.  Beautiful pics by the way.  

 

Sadly it just might be for the time being avid cruise lovers, me being one, will have to look at other forms of vacation until the CDC says ships can sail again.  One can stamp their feet all they want but it isn't going to change anything. Emotion and economy doesn't seem to fit their mandate.  IMO an effective plan from the lines and Covid being stamped out will make the difference to when we can sail again.  

 

As for the comparable, Noro is not the same as Covid.  Think about how the CDC has treated Noro over the decades; turning a few people out in the general public after a Noro cruise is much different.  

 

Just look at the hurdles that it took to get cruisers and crew off ships that had only a few cases this spring.  The Governor of FL was refusing ships.  As @Milwaukee Eightnoted they did not want to take on the influx of sick vacationers from cruise ships.  Cruise ships have always been unfairly seen as the "super spreaders", the floating petri dish of the seas and Covid has already reaffirmed that label to the industry.

 

All the cruisers can hope for is the industry puts forward an effective plan on September 18th/21st and that the CDC will accept it.  We need to keep for fingers crossed that it will be responded to faster than the 14 weeks it took last time, before they responded.  Then it can be put into action.

 

14 weeks from Sept 18th is December 25th.

The 2 months approx. needed to staff a ship from that date is February 19th.

 

 

In the meantime one can hope that rates continue to go down and there is some success with the vaccines by then as well.  All we can do is cross our fingers and stay safe in our daily actions.

 

 

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

Whereas, economic impact to the Port of Miami as a result of the no-sail order is pretty huge -- directly and indirectly.  Many jobs and revenue have disappeared and it will take a while to get back to pre-pandemic times.  Not saying we should risk the lives of the front line workers by resuming cruises before it's safe.   An acceptable plan for the cruise lines operating out of the largest cruise port in the world to eventually resume business in a safe, cautious, and responsible manner is what the local authorities are seeking.  

 

Actually, it is the CDC that is seeking an acceptable plan; for a safe, cautious, and responsible manner from the cruise lines to eventually resume business.

 

It seems like the POA and local authorities want to be the tail wagging the dog, but it just doesn't work that way.  Unfortunately the CDC doesn't care about the economic impact, nor people's feelings.

 

I have my fingers crossed that the best plan possible is put forward.  The industry must have a feasible action plan for every area of concern raised by the CDC.

 

 

[A&L_Ont]

32 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

The resolution by the PortMiami Commission was about CDC responding in a timely and productive manner.

 

"...Commissioner Rebeca Sosa expressed frustration with the health officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for not allowing cruises to resume. 

She has called on the CDC to sign off on safety protocols the cruise industry wants to use aboard their ships.

“We are not telling them let us cruise tomorrow or let us cruise next month. We are telling them, review the plan, tell us what is right, what is wrong, so we can fix it because at the end of the day, you have thousands of residents of Miami Dade County and the state of Florida that depend on this industry for business,” she said.

 

 

Unfortunately the CDC is leaving it in the hands of the lines.  I deal with the Ministry of Health here in Ontario Canada and in the past they used to work with you to help review/guide one with their plans.  Over the last decade they have taken the opposite approach and will only tell you after the fact that it is acceptable or not.  Highly unfair as it can feel that you are stumbling or feeling your way around in a dark room.  This is exactly how it sounded today at times during the call.

 

You could hear the frustration in the voice of Rebeca Sosa, as she wished for better and faster communication.  I feel for her, the industry as well as the people effected in Florida and around the world waiting to return to work onboard.  

 

This pandemic is so much more than just a single event effecting the cruise industry.  Today's call just showed the scale of this industry and it's financial power/spread.  One can only imagine the effects it will have on it and others over the time to come.

[A&L_Ont]

@chengkp75 on the phone call today it was noted that Disney and Virgin did not have representation present. What would you guess to be why this would be the case?  

 

Yes Virgin is literally brand new but I would have though they and Disney would have had someone on the call unless they are going on their own?

Edited September 10, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

@chengkp75 on the phone call today it was noted that Disney and Virgin did not have representation present. What would you guess to be why this would be the case?  

 

Yes Virgin is literally brand new but I would have though they and Disney would have had someone on the call unless they are going on their own?

This was a phone call between the cruise lines and the Port of Miami government?  Do these lines sail/plan to sail from Miami?  Maybe they aren't interested in Miami, or maybe they don't think there is any hope of getting the CDC to fold to, as you say, the "tail wagging the dog", by getting into a "***** and moan" session with a local government.

[3monkeys4me]

32 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

@chengkp75 on the phone call today it was noted that Disney and Virgin did not have representation present. What would you guess to be why this would be the case?  

 

Yes Virgin is literally brand new but I would have though they and Disney would have had someone on the call unless they are going on their own?

 

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This was a phone call between the cruise lines and the Port of Miami government?  Do these lines sail/plan to sail from Miami?  Maybe they aren't interested in Miami, or maybe they don't think there is any hope of getting the CDC to fold to, as you say, the "tail wagging the dog", by getting into a "***** and moan" session with a local government.

 

I don't know about Virgin but Disney only sails one ship in Miami and it only is there for part of the year (unless something has changed in the last 24 months) so I wouldn't expect them to put in too much effort there.

[livingonthebeach]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

Actually, it is the CDC that is seeking an acceptable plan; for a safe, cautious, and responsible manner from the cruise lines to eventually resume business.

 

It seems like the POA and local authorities want to be the tail wagging the dog, but it just doesn't work that way.  Unfortunately the CDC doesn't care about the economic impact, nor people's feelings.

 

I have my fingers crossed that the best plan possible is put forward.  The industry must have a feasible action plan for every area of concern raised by the CDC.

 

The CDC, PortMiami and the Tourism and Ports Committee of the Miami-Dade County Board of Commissioners who held the meeting today, as well as the Cruise Lines all seek an acceptable plan.  Let's hope they can all join forces to seek the best resolution possible.  

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The CDC, PortMiami and the Tourism and Ports Committee of the Miami-Dade County Board of Commissioners who held the meeting today, as well as the Cruise Lines all seek an acceptable plan.  Let's hope they can all join forces to seek the best resolution possible.  

Delete.

Edited September 10, 2020 by chengkp75

[livingonthebeach]

Here's an article on today's Miami-Dade County Tourism and Ports Committee meeting:

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/enough-enough-cruise-industry-says-its-safe-ready-sail-us

[A&L_Ont]

9 hours ago, sandebeach said:

FYI, trying to get online now to hear this:

Cruise Restart | #PortMiami cruise partners to update the Miami-Dade Tourism and the Ports Committee Sept. 10 @ 9:30 A.M. EST LIVE: https://lnkd.in/gdgumvQ

Arnold Donald,President/CEO
Carnival Cruise Line Corporation

Rick Sasso, Chairman
MSC Cruises

Frank Del Río, President/CEO
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd.

Michael Bayley, President/CEO
Royal Caribbean International

PortMiami Leadership
Juan Kuryla, CEO
Hydi Webb, Deputy Director

#portmiamistrong
#wearecruise
#cruiserestart

 

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

The CDC, PortMiami and the Tourism and Ports Committee of the Miami-Dade County Board of Commissioners who held the meeting today, as well as the Cruise Lines all seek an acceptable plan.  Let's hope they can all join forces to seek the best resolution possible.  

From the article you shared and the list above from Sandebeach the CDC was not part of the call today. Technically the cruise lines that must put forward the acceptable plan and the CDC only approves it or not. POM, the City, the State, port workers, local business and they cruise lines that will financially benefit if it is given the green light.
 

I personally see today’s meeting as a push back of frustration against the CDC from those involved in the meeting.  If the cruise industry was working behind the scenes with the CDC this doesn’t seem like a way of saying thanks. 

 

The cruise industry might wishfully seek a plan from the CDC but they must submit their own plans for approval. The CDC gave them points to build their plan upon but they are not working “hand in hand” with the cruise lines.  
 

Hopefully sooner than later a plan will be accepted and cruising will begin again. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, 3monkeys4me said:

 

 

I don't know about Virgin but Disney only sails one ship in Miami and it only is there for part of the year (unless something has changed in the last 24 months) so I wouldn't expect them to put in too much effort there.

 

Last I heard, Virgin was building a Terminal in Miami. So yea, they plan on sailing from Miami 

[livingonthebeach]

12 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

From the article you shared and the list above from Sandebeach the CDC was not part of the call today. Technically the cruise lines that must put forward the acceptable plan and the CDC only approves it or not. POM, the City, the State, port workers, local business and they cruise lines that will financially benefit if it is given the green light.
 

I personally see today’s meeting as a push back of frustration against the CDC from those involved in the meeting.  If the cruise industry was working behind the scenes with the CDC this doesn’t seem like a way of saying thanks. 

 

The cruise industry might wishfully seek a plan from the CDC but they must submit their own plans for approval. The CDC gave them points to build their plan upon but they are not working “hand in hand” with the cruise lines.  
 

Hopefully sooner than later a plan will be accepted and cruising will begin again. 

 

I'm sorry if you got the impression the CDC was part of that meeting -- I never said it was.  The point I was trying to make is that they all need to make a concerted effort to come to an agreement sooner than later.   Like you, I'm hopeful a plan will be accepted and cruising will begin again. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by livingonthebeach

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

This was a phone call between the cruise lines and the Port of Miami government?  Do these lines sail/plan to sail from Miami?  Maybe they aren't interested in Miami, or maybe they don't think there is any hope of getting the CDC to fold to, as you say, the "tail wagging the dog", by getting into a "***** and moan" session with a local government.

It sure doesn’t seem to be the way to gain favour from the CDC, even though they are trying to make their point. It is a unprecedented pandemic, not a gastric outbreak limited to one ship. 

 

With Disney having limited POM sailings and Virgin not having their first official cruise from there I think we see it the same way.  Disney and Virgin may feel the same as the others involved in today’s call, but being smaller players maybe they don’t want to rock the boat. 

[Pratique]

4 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

This pandemic is so much more than just a single event effecting the cruise industry.  Today's call just showed the scale of this industry and it's financial power/spread.  One can only imagine the effects it will have on it and others over the time to come.

 

Fourteen cruise lines employ nearly 150,000 state residents and operate 63 ships out of five Florida ports, where more than 11.5 million passengers spent $1.05 billion ashore in 2016, according to Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA)....

 

Florida's $117b maritime industry seeks pandemic aid but is bullish on growth

[sandebeach]

The pandemic has affected all of the Florida cruise ports, thus it affects Florida’s economy. But hopefully things will get better. Just got a notice that bars in Florida(except Miami and Broward) can open back on Monday at 50% and Ft. Lauderdale just announced that the Boat Show will be able to be held end of October. 

[Pratique]

3 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

Just got a notice that bars in Florida(except Miami and Broward) can open back on Monday at 50%

Are the social distancing requirements still in place? We heard from many restaurants and bars who said that even when we moved to 100% capacity it didn't help because the distancing requirements still limited them to less than half of normal capacity.

[sandebeach]

17 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Are the social distancing requirements still in place? We heard from many restaurants and bars who said that even when we moved to 100% capacity it didn't help because the distancing requirements still limited them to less than half of normal capacity.

I believe social  distancing will still have to be in place. In Broward County, restaurants currently have to stop serving alcohol at 11 PM. I don’t think they have that restriction in the rest of Florida. 

[John&LaLa]

39 minutes ago, Pratique said:

 

Fourteen cruise lines employ nearly 150,000 state residents and operate 63 ships out of five Florida ports, where more than 11.5 million passengers spent $1.05 billion ashore in 2016, according to Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA)....

 

Florida's $117b maritime industry seeks pandemic aid but is bullish on growth

 

How do they get 150,000 'residents' employed by the cruise lines

[Pratique]

1 minute ago, John&LaLa said:

 

How do they get 150,000 'residents' employed by the cruise lines

I assume they count all vendors who service the cruise lines all the way from the farms and warehouses to the dock.

[John&LaLa]

Just now, Pratique said:

I assume they count all vendors who service the cruise lines all the way from the farms and warehouses to the dock.

 

Those folks have other customers. 

Sounds like they are inflating their numbers😉

Imagine that

[Pratique]

3 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Those folks have other customers. 

Sounds like they are inflating their numbers😉

Imagine that

I'm sure there is double/triple counting going on. But I also imagine that business for the hotel shuttle buses, taxis, and delivery drivers is way down and some of those folks are out of work right now.

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, Pratique said:

I'm sure there is double/triple counting going on. But I also imagine that business for the hotel shuttle buses, taxis, and delivery drivers is way down and some of those folks are out of work right now.

 

Yea, my massage lady in CB says business is way down. Same with Laura's nail tech.