Required ship excursions if getting off the ship

[clo]

46 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

I have a friend who will not visit a place if photography is banned.

Are there outside areas where that is true? We were in some mosques where they were banned inside.

[cruisemom42]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Are there outside areas where that is true? We were in some mosques where they were banned inside.

 

Yes. Often for security reasons. (I'm sure that must have been the case in the container port.)

 

I've been at the Antonine baths in Tunis (part of ancient Carthage) and tourists there are told repeatedly by guards not to take any pictures in a certain direction -- the President's mansion is right next door.

 

Of course, we managed to get in trouble anyway by walking too close to the fence while following a trail of half-buried mosaics....  Luckily the unhappy guards who accosted us and wanted to erase our photos liked basketball and got distracted by a discussion of Michael Jordan; they let us off the hook.

 

[clo]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

they let us off the hook.

I practice "establishing rapport" all over the world 🙂

[ilikeanswers]

32 minutes ago, clo said:

Are there outside areas where that is true? We were in some mosques where they were banned inside.

 

Can be both. I visit the Royal palace in Madrid and there is no photography allowed inside. Most Serbian churches don't allow photography of their frescos but I have also been to remote aboriginal sites which are outside where photography is banned. Apparently there are people willing to cut out the rocks and steal the paintings😳😔. Also in Qatar you can't photograph the oil fields. When you drive certain roads there are signs with the image of a camera with a line through it.

Edited September 26, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[sanger727]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Lets go back to the OPs actual question.  It has caused a lot of discussion between DW and me and it seems to come up on a daily basis.  The big discussion is about one particular booked cruise, a 30 day Yokohama to Vancouver HAL cruise next April.  While it is most likely that cruise will be cancelled (by the cruise line) if it does happen it is certainly possible that HAL would limit port days to excursions only!  I will honestly post that DW and I have been waffling back and forth on this issue.  Without a requirement to take cruise line excursions we would not take a single cruise line excursion.  Most ports would be DIY with perhaps a couple of private (small group) tours.  The question posed by DW is, "if we must take cruise line excursions should we cancel the entire trip?   What makes this a more difficult decision for us (vs many others) is that we do not like cruise ship excursions.  In fact, we strongly dislike cruise line or any large group excursion.   So what to do?  Should we simply accept that this is the only way to cruise (at this time) or should we say "we are not going to take any cruise as long as this silly cruise excursion rule applies?"  We do not have a final answer at this time but would love to here other opinions, especially from those who share our dislike or large group excursions.

 

Hank

 

It's hard to know how to answer that without knowing your age and health. What I mean by that is I have a family member I travel with that is approaching 70. Everyone she knows and in her family had a steep decline in health at age 70. She is still healthy so she is trying to get as many bucket list trips in as she can until the day comes that she can't. Obviously COVID put a wrench in that. But if she was booked on your trip I would tell her to go ahead and do the ship shore excursions, simply because she may not get the opportunity to take that trip again. And it would be worth her making that sacrifice to take it. Now, I have many many more travel/cruising days ahead of me, so if it was just me going on that trip I would cancel. I look at cruising as one of many potential vacation options. We had a big trip planned for February that we have scrubbed over all this. Will look at rescheduling later when things are more certain. So, that's the attitude I would take in your case. 

Edited September 26, 2020 by sanger727

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

It's hard to know how to answer that without knowing your age and health. What I mean by that is I have a family member I travel with that is approaching 70. Everyone she knows and in her family had a steep decline in health at age 70. She is still healthy so she is trying to get as many bucket list trips in as she can until the day comes that she can't. Obviously COVID put a wrench in that. But if she was booked on your trip I would tell her to go ahead and do the ship shore excursions, simply because she may not get the opportunity to take that trip again. And it would be worth her making that sacrifice to take it. Now, I have many many more travel/cruising days ahead of me, so if it was just me going on that trip I would cancel. I look at cruising as one of many potential vacation options. We had a big trip planned for February that we have scrubbed over all this. Will look at rescheduling later when things are more certain. So, that's the attitude I would take in your case. 

Great advice and post :).  DW and I are in our 70s, but relatively healthy and completely mobile.  We also have the advantage of a lifetime of independent travel which gives us a lot of confidence to do just about anything on our own although we are very careful to have decent travel medical/evacuation insurance (just in case).  We are cognizant that our years of future travel are limited by our advancing age and this gives us even more motivations to do it now...while we can :).  We think of ourselves as independent travelers that love to cruise.  But, if cruises become too restrictive then, for us, it is no big deal to simply take more land trips.  I can spend a month on a wonderful cruise, or we could rent an apartment in Paris for a month of perhaps 2 weeks in Paris and 2 weeks in a nice flat in Avignon.  Or perhaps it is a good time to rent a place in Western Tuscany for a few weeks.  The world is a big place and there are so many wonderful places to visit.  

 

Yes, like most here on CC we want to get back on cruise ships.  But if circumstances take the fun out of cruising there are plenty of other options once the world reopens.  What annoys me even more then the cruise line's being shut down (we understand the necessity) is the world closing down to basic travel.  The world needs to move beyond COVID...which might be around for years to come.  

 

Hank

[clo]

1 minute ago, Hlitner said:

But, if cruises become too restrictive then, for us, it is no big deal to simply take more land trips.  I can spend a month on a wonderful cruise, or we could rent an apartment in Paris for a month of perhaps 2 weeks in Paris and 2 weeks in a nice flat in Avignon.  Or perhaps it is a good time to rent a place in Western Tuscany for a few weeks.  The world is a big place and there are so many wonderful places to visit.  

You've cruised a lot and we've only done fewer than ten. But what you say is exactly how we feel/think. 

[capriccio]

3 hours ago, clo said:

Are there outside areas where that is true? We were in some mosques where they were banned inside.

 

Airports that share runways with military installations may ban photography.  Years ago that was the case for the airport in Santorini (Greece).  It is still a joint military-civilian airport so that probably hasn't changed.  The US has 21 joint military/civilian joint-use airports(https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/joint_use_airports/) including Charleston, SC and I vaguely remember a sign on the airport grounds about not taking outdoor pictures of the military facility but that was 15 years ago or so.

[getting older slowly]

Photos are banned in lots of places.....

 

Historic Homes, Most Art Galleries and Museums, while on site tours ( ship tours, breweries, etc )......   Many places where photography is banned.... a couple of times one has thought it is so they sell their own photos.....  It is part of life now a days.....

 

Don

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, clo said:

We traveled with them five or six times and all but the last were terrific. Turkey, Israel, SE Asia, Patagonia/Antarctica, ?.  But have decided that we likely won't again. It's just too structured with little free time to go 'exploring.' Which could be the case with all intl travel.

In central Europe, there was a lot of free time. There was their escorted tour in the morning, but in the afternoon we were free to roam. In Peru it was more structured, but it was fabulous.

 

Once travel starts up again, we are seriously considering them again. DW is looking at National Parks. I'm looking at music down South. Also they have Greece combined with a cruise on Celestyal. Lots of interesting options.

Edited September 26, 2020 by ontheweb
added name of cruise line

[rkacruiser]

19 hours ago, clo said:

And while that isn't the topic of this thread, for the life of me I don't understand. What's the big deal? So compulsory shore excursion you'r fine with but not wearing a mask.

 

Already on CC, there have been posted a wide range of opinions about wearing a mask and because of having to do so may impact one's enjoyment of their cruise.  I am in the camp of those who "believe" that the enjoyment of our cruise will be negatively affected.  I am not thrilled about needing to wear a mask during my daily activities in my locality.  But, I do so because I believe it is "the correct thing to do" from a health standpoint.  Spending four or five figures on a cruise and being required to wear a mask at certain times is different, as I see it, than what I must do at home.  It doesn't cost me four or five figures to go to my grocery, etc.  

 

May I change my opinion in the future?  That's possible.  I have yet to patronize a restaurant where I must wear my mask to enter and leave and be served by staff wearing their masks during the entire time I am in the restaurant.  Why have I not done so?  #1:  50% of my doctors think it's too risky.  #2:  I agree with them.  #3:  When I dine at a nice restaurant, I will buy a bottle of wine.  My bill will show three figures or the high two figures.  Part of my enjoyment of "dining out" is the ambiance that the experience provides.  Having yet to do so, I "l believe" that the ambiance that I may experience will be disappointing for me and I will regret having done so and spending that amount of money.

 

I have friends who have been encouraging me to "get out of my bubble" and join them for a restaurant dinner.  I suspect that I will succumb to their entreaties at some point in the future.  With fingers crossed and wearing my mask.  If such an "adventure" proves successful, I probably would become more confident about doing so again--and again--etc.  Such experiences, then, might change my mind about the anticipated "expectation of having to wear one's mask" during a cruise.  

[clo]

5 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

I have yet to patronize a restaurant where I must wear my mask to enter and leave and be served by staff wearing their masks during the entire time I am in the restaurant. 

Ah, then I understand your reluctance. We've been dining mostly 'outside' for several months now. And when indoors you wear your mask when not at your table and they have major social distancing. They have capacity limits that include the staff also (meaning back AND front of the house). We had breakfast at a place this morning where they were regularly turning people away. Some were leaving #s so they could be texted. Just some examples.

[clo]

20 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

I am in the camp of those who "believe" that the enjoyment of our cruise will be negatively affected. 

I'm just going to tack this on here:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/face-masks-2021-covid-19_l_5f64be3ec5b6de79b673cabc?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3TmFKSIt4Lg1MRoBDJhxDsS2litfnLFkKWxCzqqkUv5jZCVIu3K5MQjE4

[cruisemom42]

20 hours ago, clo said:

And while that isn't the topic of this thread, for the life of me I don't understand. What's the big deal? So compulsory shore excursion you'r fine with but not wearing a mask.

 

5 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm just going to tack this on here:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/face-masks-2021-covid-19_l_5f64be3ec5b6de79b673cabc?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3TmFKSIt4Lg1MRoBDJhxDsS2litfnLFkKWxCzqqkUv5jZCVIu3K5MQjE4

 

You have asked this question a number of times; I know I have answered it at least twice.

 

I do not understand why it is difficult to comprehend, or accept, that one can both UNDERSTAND the need to wear a mask and yet NOT ENJOY wearing it.  

 

I have tried any number of different masks and I do not like wearing them. They make me feel light-headed and headache-y. It's not a moral failing. I will wear it when I go about essential activities. However, I'm not eager to take a vacation where my enjoyment will be compromised by the discomfort. 

 

Perhaps you could find common cause with the authors of this article in The Atlantic who say: "Summoning compassion for people who have a hard time wearing masks ... isn’t such a tall order.  Masks don’t deprive people of oxygen, but they do make it harder to breathe freely. They fog up people’s glasses. They make noses itch and faces sweat."

 

Personally, I do not have your faith in ventilation systems in places like restaurants. I wouldn't eat in one right now, even with social distancing, and especially would not want to NOT wear a mask -- yet how could one eat or drink without removing one's mask?  So I don't go. 

 

 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

You have asked this question a number of times; I know I have answered it at least twice.

 

My only point here is that for the next year plus it could be very likely that to cruise one is going to have to wear a mask. And that's something that I would far prefer to having to use the ship's shore excursions. My only point.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Ah, then I understand your reluctance. 

 

I appreciate your understanding of my position.  Thank you very much.

 

1 hour ago, clo said:

1 hour ago, clo said:

I'm just going to tack this on here:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/face-masks-2021-covid-19_l_5f64be3ec5b6de79b673cabc?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_source=main_fb&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3TmFKSIt4Lg1MRoBDJhxDsS2litfnLFkKWxCzqqkUv5jZCVIu3K5MQjE4

 

I fully accept what this article says.  If an effective and safe vaccine is developed, it will take much time for the vaccine to be able to be distributed and administered.  We will welcome 2021 on New Year's Eve wearing a mask.  I have no doubt of that.  God help us if we have to welcome 2022 still needing to wear a mask.  

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

one can both UNDERSTAND the need to wear a mask and yet NOT ENJOY wearing it.  

 

An issue for me is that I have seen photos of masks that I think I could comfortably wear.  The guests disembarking from the Diamond Princess, in the photo that I saw, was wearing that type of mask.  I cannot buy that type of mask.  Medical supply companies make them but they are still only available to medical professionals.  

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

"Summoning compassion for people who have a hard time wearing masks ... isn’t such a tall order.  Masks don’t deprive people of oxygen, but they do make it harder to breathe freely. They fog up people’s glasses.

 

Glasses fogging?  Yes.  I use an inhaler because of shortness of breath issues.  The inhaler helps, but wearing the mask--particularly when it is hot/humid--negates the effects of the medicine.  

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

I have tried any number of different masks and I do not like wearing them. They make me feel light-headed and headache-y. It's not a moral failing. I will wear it when I go about essential activities. However, I'm not eager to take a vacation where my enjoyment will be compromised by the discomfort. 

 

Mr. Polyanna here, I suppose.  The longer this crisis goes on, our country's ingenuity will arise to the occasion and meet the challenge, I hope.  Masks that will be more comfortable to wear and that allows for improved breathing while limiting the possibility of the wearer of spreading the virus.  

 

Why do I say this?  When the requirement to wear a mask began, drug stores did not have them.  Then, inexpensive masks began to appear.  Recently, I have noticed a couple of shelves in the store where I shop having a couple of types of masks.  

 

America went to the Moon.  We are exploring Mars.  We discovered the resting place of the Titanic.  Why can't a 2020 comfortable, effective mask not be created?

[Covepointcruiser]

If you use an inhaler or have difficulty breathing with a mask then cruising would not be advisable.   People with pulmonary issues should not be exposing the selves to COVID 19 or any other respiratory infections.   If you are not using an inhaler and get lightheaded while wearing a mask you should see your doctor immediately as your blood oxygen levels are too low.

 

[rkacruiser]

3 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

People with pulmonary issues should not be exposing the selves to COVID 19 or any other respiratory infections.   

 

You must not have read my previous posts.  What do you think I have been doing?

 

3 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

4 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

If you are not using an inhaler and get lightheaded while wearing a mask you should see your doctor immediately as your blood oxygen levels are too low.

 

 

Not lightheaded and am using an inhaler as well as wearing a mask, my blood oxygen levels are acceptable.  

 

This is a crisis that has no parallel in modern history.  We don't know what we don't know as it's related to personal health.  It seems to me that we keep learning....millimeter by millimeter.  

[clo]

44 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

America went to the Moon.  We are exploring Mars.  We discovered the resting place of the Titanic.  Why can't a 2020 comfortable, effective mask not be created?

We got a new one at a small casino where we have breakfast and 'game' a bit. We each had enough points for a mask. It has a little snap down square that covers an opening for a straw!!! Or I suppose a cigarette. 

[2wheelin]

44 minutes ago, clo said:

We got a new one at a small casino where we have breakfast and 'game' a bit. We each had enough points for a mask. It has a little snap down square that covers an opening for a straw!!! Or I suppose a cigarette. 

And that square completely seals around the edges when it is snapped down????

Most ineffective masks are comfortable along with some effective ones.

 

[clo]

33 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

And that square completely seals around the edges when it is snapped down????

Most ineffective masks are comfortable along with some effective ones.

 

 

[getting older slowly]

on topic..... they want you to only excursions organised by the ship......

 

So you either do it or you don't get off the ship...... not that hard

 

Now pictures of masks with holes... what next the world is flat.....

 

And some magical pixie is going to give you a vaccine which will have no side effect, be 100% safe and work 100%  of time so will never get sick.....

 

Think about it.....  nobody knows yet......   wait and see don't guess 

 

 

[GrJ Berkshire]

9 hours ago, clo said:

We got a new one at a small casino where we have breakfast and 'game' a bit. We each had enough points for a mask. It has a little snap down square that covers an opening for a straw!!! Or I suppose a cigarette. 

Why the h.... are casinos still open in the states? 

Surely gaming and social distancing cannot occur

No wonder the USA has a problem !

With this view of the virus the European cruises will not happen in 2021 either IMHO........

Then these phoney masks..........

[2wheelin]

3 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Why the h.... are casinos still open in the states? 

Surely gaming and social distancing cannot occur

No wonder the USA has a problem !

With this view of the virus the European cruises will not happen in 2021 either IMHO........

Then these phoney masks..........

The US has a problem because of people like that who claim everything they want to do is done safely and whatever others do is reckless. The other picture they posted of their mask earlier was a flimsy single layer knit thing that does nothing but keep your face warm. 

In this country you are supposed to go only one direction in the grocery store aisles (no one is going to be clinically exposed in a 30 second passing) but bars and casinos are wide open. This whole masking thing is so out of hand.