International Travelers May Need to get Virus Vaccinations

[JohnDG]

A thought from another thread: HAL may not have a choice about making vaccinations mandatory if international ports insist on this as a condition for a visit. And as for medical exceptions, it would be not just HAL to allow the exception... all the countries would also have to allow it.
 

This could be the norm for a number of years for international travel. 

[mcrcruiser]

4 minutes ago, JohnDG said:

A thought from another thread: HAL may not have a choice about making vaccinations mandatory if international ports insist on this as a condition for a visit. And as for medical exceptions, it would be not just HAL to allow the exception... all the countries would also have to allow it.
 

This could be the norm for a number of years for international travel. 

Could be a long time coming ;as there is   a good percentage of doubt  in the USA about the vaccines  . Cruise lines need a certain percent of  cabins filled to be profitable , Thus ,should this  rejection to the vaccine linger  for quite awhile until people see if there are side effects that are small or large  may hurt the cruise lines beyond recovery  .? 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, mcrcruiser said:

Could be a long time coming ;as there is   a good percentage of doubt  in the USA about the vaccines  . Cruise lines need a certain percent of  cabins filled to be profitable , Thus ,should this  rejection to the vaccine linger  for quite awhile until people see if there are side effects that are small or large  may hurt the cruise lines beyond recovery  .? 

I do not think the anti-vaxers will have much to say about government policy around the world.  The cruise lines will move to a mandatory vaccination policy because of a few reasons including the CDC likely making it a Guideline requirement, most countries/islands requiring it as a condition of allowing ships in their waters, and the cruise lines wanting to minimize the risk of any COVID cases which would end their cruise (and possibly the following cruise) and cost the lines a lot of money.  As to the anti-vaxers they will be left behind as folks scramble to get vaccinated.  The latest estimate we heard (today) is that it will take until near the end of the 2nd quarter of 2021 to vaccinate all who want to be vaccinated.  The government will eventually need to deal with anti-vax sentiment and that is going to be an interesting debate.  There is already talk of mandating vaccination for all school kids (once a vaccine is approved for kids) and 

 

side effects are certainly an issue and those that are overly concerned should assume they will not be able to cruise (at least for a couple of years) or even fly (the airlines are already talking about mandatory vaccination policies).  Since you are on the West Coast I would also predict that Hawaii will require vaccination proof in lieu of 14 days self-quarantine for visitors.  Speaking of side effects have you looked at the "side effects" of getting COVID...such as death, permanent lung damage, kidney failure, serious heart disease, neurological disorders, etc?  I guess we need to weigh that against a sore arm or possibly a couple of days of low grade fever and some malaise.  But then again, I do not live in Newsom land :).   The solution in your State will be to keep everything locked down for the next 2-3 years (or maybe longer).   I also do not see how you will ever have cruises out of CA since the number of folks boarding a cruise ship would exceed the maximum crowd size allowed by your Governor.  On the other hand, I guess it is OK for a crowd to have dinner at the French Laundry :).

 

Hank

[T8NCruise]

13 hours ago, Roz said:

 

That doesn't make sense to me either.  We have lots of options (most low or no cost or included with insurance) for getting a flu shot.  

Oh believe me, it happened.  I don't lie and it was well publicised at the time.  Can't remember if it was because the us had a shortage, or the expense.

[OzCanuck]

1 hour ago, T8NCruise said:

Oh believe me, it happened.  I don't lie and it was well publicised at the time.  Can't remember if it was because the us had a shortage, or the expense.

It was due to a shortage in 2004.

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/oct/22/20041022-093812-9315r/

[Laminator]

5 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

To some central holding areas. Not to injection sites.

This is such an enormous logistical undertaking that I am sure some hospitals have received a small amount of doses and have administered those doses. I am quite sure there was an NDA involved. It's the only way the FDA would know whether the process worked from start to finish due to the temperature that the virus has to be maintained at. That is a critical part of the equation.

[CruiserBruce]

29 minutes ago, Laminator said:

This is such an enormous logistical undertaking that I am sure some hospitals have received a small amount of doses and have administered those doses. I am quite sure there was an NDA involved. It's the only way the FDA would know whether the process worked from start to finish due to the temperature that the virus has to be maintained at. That is a critical part of the equation.

No...a selection of hospitals got some test runs in doing the Phase 3 testing. Saw a news story on it tonight.

[mcrcruiser]

7 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I do not think the anti-vaxers will have much to say about government policy around the world.  The cruise lines will move to a mandatory vaccination policy because of a few reasons including the CDC likely making it a Guideline requirement, most countries/islands requiring it as a condition of allowing ships in their waters, and the cruise lines wanting to minimize the risk of any COVID cases which would end their cruise (and possibly the following cruise) and cost the lines a lot of money.  As to the anti-vaxers they will be left behind as folks scramble to get vaccinated.  The latest estimate we heard (today) is that it will take until near the end of the 2nd quarter of 2021 to vaccinate all who want to be vaccinated.  The government will eventually need to deal with anti-vax sentiment and that is going to be an interesting debate.  There is already talk of mandating vaccination for all school kids (once a vaccine is approved for kids) and 

 

side effects are certainly an issue and those that are overly concerned should assume they will not be able to cruise (at least for a couple of years) or even fly (the airlines are already talking about mandatory vaccination policies).  Since you are on the West Coast I would also predict that Hawaii will require vaccination proof in lieu of 14 days self-quarantine for visitors.  Speaking of side effects have you looked at the "side effects" of getting COVID...such as death, permanent lung damage, kidney failure, serious heart disease, neurological disorders, etc?  I guess we need to weigh that against a sore arm or possibly a couple of days of low grade fever and some malaise.  But then again, I do not live in Newsom land :).   The solution in your State will be to keep everything locked down for the next 2-3 years (or maybe longer).   I also do not see how you will ever have cruises out of CA since the number of folks boarding a cruise ship would exceed the maximum crowd size allowed by your Governor.  On the other hand, I guess it is OK for a crowd to have dinner at the French Laundry :).

 

Hank

Hank  it is not just in Ca that people here in the states are skeptical about the vaccines .It is through out the USA that skeptics  reign  .  We will see how this all progresses in time .It always comes down to the "test of time " for every thing meaningful 

 What I was inferring is that nothing is for  sure  .   Cruise lines .airlines ,trains ,buses & countries would like a perfect world scenario ;however ,the world is far from perfect  .People will do what people do . Governments can try to  convince people with ads & other news media  ;however , the truth usually comes out  . The only danger of this virus really is to us older folks with underlying medical conditions . normal healthy people survive it just fine   .It is like the yearly flu when it comes to fatalities

 The facts are what will cruise lines ,airlines really do if there are not enough vaccinated customers using their products to survive . Thus ,follow the money to the correct answers 

Edited December 14, 2020 by mcrcruiser

[T8NCruise]

11 hours ago, OzCanuck said:

It was due to a shortage in 2004.

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/oct/22/20041022-093812-9315r/

Thank you.  Likely it will be ignored by those who doubted me.

[mcrcruiser]

22 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

Thank you.  Likely it will be ignored by those who doubted me.

OK you are correct .not ignoring it .so you no longer need to be a doubting Thomas 

Edited December 14, 2020 by mcrcruiser

[mcrcruiser]

Just wondering in 20024 I was 66  yrs old &  both I & my wife had no problems in getting our Flu shots ,at our doctor 's offices locally .So it seemed strange when you posted bus loads of American's  show up in Vancouver to get flu shots . Glad that your country could help us out .After all we are neighbors   & we spend considerable money in Canada . We have been to  Both BC & Alberta  & New Brunswick  many times   for our cruises  . We even spent weeks in all the areas on our trips because we really enjoyed seeing different scenery & ding different things . I played golf at Banff Springs Golf Course  with your fellow Canadians  . Gorgeous area of Canada ,the Canadian Rockies .  We have done 5  Alaska tours  & always stayed in Vancouver or Vancouver island  .Those 2 english tudor homes we bought in Vancouver island turned out to be a gold mine  both in rentals & ultimately sales .

 

 Cliff

[mcrcruiser]

16 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

no post

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by mcrcruiser

[Hlitner]

12 hours ago, OzCanuck said:

It was due to a shortage in 2004.

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/oct/22/20041022-093812-9315r/

I remember that shortage well since I was still working in the healthcare sector that year.  There were a lot of ramifications.  The problem was that at the time no drug company was manufacturing flu vaccines in the USA.  Why?  There was no liability protection and the flu vaccine (like most vaccines) is not a very profitable item.  Drug companies simply manufactured in countries that gave them some liability protection or where liability is not a big issue.  This has not changed much to this day which is one reason why many drugs (and their precursors) are manufactured in China where there is no concern about liability.  

 

I will not defend the pharm industry but they are international businesses that have an aversion to manufacturing anything inside the USA because of our litigious nature (and lack of laws to protect drug companies).  And when they do manufacture here the drug cost mark-ups are significant just to cover the cost of liability insurance.  It is also interesting that many of the same politicians who rant about the high cost of drugs in the USA are the first to object to any attempt to limit liability (which would be a way to reduce the cost of those same drugs).  The biggest pandemic in Washington D. C is hypocrisy.

 

Hank

[mcrcruiser]

21 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I remember that shortage well since I was still working in the healthcare sector that year.  There were a lot of ramifications.  The problem was that at the time no drug company was manufacturing flu vaccines in the USA.  Why?  There was no liability protection and the flu vaccine (like most vaccines) is not a very profitable item.  Drug companies simply manufactured in countries that gave them some liability protection or where liability is not a big issue.  This has not changed much to this day which is one reason why many drugs (and their precursors) are manufactured in China where there is no concern about liability.  

 

I will not defend the pharm industry but they are international businesses that have an aversion to manufacturing anything inside the USA because of our litigious nature (and lack of laws to protect drug companies).  And when they do manufacture here the drug cost mark-ups are significant just to cover the cost of liability insurance.  It is also interesting that many of the same politicians who rant about the high cost of drugs in the USA are the first to object to any attempt to limit liability (which would be a way to reduce the cost of those same drugs).  The biggest pandemic in Washington D. C is hypocrisy.

 

Hank

Hank  politicians promise much but deliver less or absolutely nothing to the voters ,They are all beholding to special interests   .& their lobbyists   .This why DC is  corrupt 

 

 Cliff

[mcrcruiser]

Just now, mcrcruiser said:

Hank  politicians promise much but deliver less or absolutely nothing to the voters ,They are all beholding to special interests   .& their lobbyists   .This why DC is  corrupt 

 

 Cliff

BTW ,PFE stock is getting mauled in the stock market  today . 

[bcummin]

To get through this in the best possible shape, we need to think positive.  We need to encourage the vaccine by word and deed, whenever possible.

Barbara

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, bcummin said:

To get through this in the best possible shape, we need to think positive.  We need to encourage the vaccine by word and deed, whenever possible.

Barbara

This whole virus situation  is being used as a tool to close the small business  & control by corrupt political  motives  .The real danger is for people like us in the older age brackets with underlying medical conditions .Healthy people can survive this virus just fine .There is no  medical evidence to the contrary ,at all  .Thus ,then why all these  vaccines ?

[T8NCruise]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just wondering in 20024 I was 66  yrs old &  both I & my wife had no problems in getting our Flu shots ,at our doctor 's offices locally .So it seemed strange when you posted bus loads of American's  show up in Vancouver to get flu shots . Glad that your country could help us out .After all we are neighbors   & we spend considerable money in Canada . We have been to  Both BC & Alberta  & New Brunswick  many times   for our cruises  . We even spent weeks in all the areas on our trips because we really enjoyed seeing different scenery & ding different things . I played golf at Banff Springs Golf Course  with your fellow Canadians  . Gorgeous area of Canada ,the Canadian Rockies .  We have done 5  Alaska tours  & always stayed in Vancouver or Vancouver island  .Those 2 english tudor homes we bought in Vancouver island turned out to be a gold mine  both in rentals & ultimately sales .

 

 Cliff

Thank you so much for keeping us going on Canada.   Couldn't do it without you.

Come to think of it, we have spent a ton of money in the US too, especially on our many pre- and pre-cruise stays, so happily it is reciprocal.

[mcrcruiser]

2 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

Thank you so much for keeping us going on Canada.   Couldn't do it without you.

Come to think of it, we have spent a ton of money in the US too, especially on our many pre- and pre-cruise stays, so happily it is reciprocal.

Ah I know especially since the USD is so much stronger than the Canadian  Looney 

[kazu]

35 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Healthy people can survive this virus just fine .There is no  medical evidence to the contrary ,at all  .Thus ,then why all these  vaccines ?

 

Not sure what news you are watching or where you are getting your medical evidence but it is in error.  Young people and even children can be affected by this even though they are healthy.   People in their 30’s, 40’, & 50’s are dying and very ill. And they can all be left with medical conditions after covid 😢.  And, yes, I am talking about healthy people with no underlying conditions.

Vaccines are needed for herd immunity assuming enough people are vaccinated.  

[mcrcruiser]

2 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Not sure what news you are watching or where you are getting your medical evidence but it is in error.  Young people and even children can be affected by this even though they are healthy.   People in their 30’s, 40’, & 50’s are dying and very ill. And they can all be left with medical conditions after covid 😢.  And, yes, I am talking about healthy people with no underlying conditions.

Vaccines are needed for herd immunity assuming enough people are vaccinated.  

Look at the percentages for covid 19 & then compare them to the ordinary flu  with regards to deaths among younger people  .There simply is no medical evidence that supports   that there are   high numbers of deaths among younger people . It is all about control . Ask yourself a questions ,then why are the big box stores remain open while the politicians shut down small  business ?  

[mcrcruiser]

A very interesting fact is why are children not in school ? There is zero evidence that children get the virus  . It is all about power & the control of power 

[mcrcruiser]

BTW there is evidence of suicides , families having problems keeping 2 jobs with children at home & children failing because they just can not learn from videos like they would in a class room setting 

[mcrcruiser]

Oh herd immunity is a myth ,reason is you will never get 75 or 80 % of americans to take the vaccines  & that it the number for herd immunity 

[kazu]

2 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Look at the percentages for covid 19 & then compare them to the ordinary flu  with regards to deaths among younger people  .There simply is no medical evidence that supports   that there are   high numbers of deaths among younger people . It is all about control . Ask yourself a questions ,then why are the big box stores remain open while the politicians shut down small  business ?  

 

I see, so it’s ok that Covid 19 accounts for 3x more deaths than the flu?  And the people that die are not worthy of living?

 

I’m not sure what you call younger people - certainly those in the 40’s and 50’s and younger have been lost way too early here.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54463511

 

Just now, mcrcruiser said:

A very interesting fact is why are children not in school ? There is zero evidence that children get the virus  . It is all about power & the control of power 

 

No school?  That’s because your infection rate is too high.

 

The children here are going to school.  But we have a low infection rate as people have respected and followed the safety protocols.  

 

Actually children do get the virus.  It’s proven.