CLIA vs CDC

[Jasukkie]

There are all sorts of requirements for a ship to sail. This isn't some kid building a raft to head down the river in the name of freedom. I feel like there are some here that see lifeboats as a government intrusion on private freedoms. 

[coaster]

CLIA could of prevented the CDC  going against them again. There is no common standard among the lines they represent. CLIA failed big time. A unified standard among their member lines could of prevented the CDC from issuing another statement stating cruises are not recommended now.

 

CLIA just reacts harshly after the fact to any new negative advisory in regards to cruising.. CLIA could of taken charge and had all their member lines adhere to strict guidelines across the board.  No exceptions. Vaccinated or no boarding. Children are no exception even if not eligible for the vaccine.  CDC is not the bad guy to me.

Edited February 11, 2022 by coaster

[smokeybandit]

6 minutes ago, coaster said:

  No exceptions. Vaccinated or no boarding. Children are no exception even if not eligible for the vaccine.

 Norwegian showed what a poor approach that was. They abandoned families and some of the biggest passenger outbreaks were on their ships.

Edited February 11, 2022 by smokeybandit

[coaster]

Makes no sense for any of the member lines to fund CLIA anymore. CLIA is useless as it currently stands. They are just reactionary, but not proactive. Each cruise line under their umbrella should cut them off financially and use the savings to pay off their increased debt.

Edited February 11, 2022 by coaster

[Jasukkie]

10 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 Norwegian showed what a poor approach that was. They abandoned families and some of the biggest passenger outbreaks were on their ships.

Norwegian has passenger carrying ships in green and yellow. Almost all passenger-carrying Royal ships are in orange. If there is available data beyond that I'd love to see it. 

[smokeybandit]

2 minutes ago, Jasukkie said:

Norwegian has passenger carrying ships in green and yellow. Almost all passenger-carrying Royal ships are in orange. If there is available data beyond that I'd love to see it. 

Royal Caribbean tests crew every 3 days. That's where the huge majority of positives on board were found.

[Jasukkie]

3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Royal Caribbean tests crew every 3 days. That's where the huge majority of positives on board were found.

Does Norwegian not test crew? I'm not saying Norwegian is superior in their protocols, both lines have had to cancel sailings etc, just what the current status is and that may be why they are changing their rules more quickly. I wish they all published their real data but I understand why they don't.

[coaster]

Hard to decipher the protocols between the lines now. Would take hours to analyze each line's protocols and report back on the differences on each one. CLIA should of been  involved and forced their member lines to have the same common standard.

Edited February 11, 2022 by coaster

[skywonder]

17 hours ago, klfrodo said:

CLIA has 1 client and 1 goal. The promotion and profitability of the Cruise Line industry.

CDC on the other hand has the health, safety, and well-being of an entire nation.

 

While the CDC may have made some missteps in this entirely new and unprecedented pandemic, I'll go with the CDC here.

Missteps? More like total disaster, they are worthless.

Edited February 11, 2022 by skywonder

[skywonder]

17 hours ago, binro01 said:

In general, I find the people in government work are the bottom of the barrel in their chosen field. It usually is an indication that they could not succeed in the private sector of their business for whatever reason.

They could be highly educated and highly intelligent, but just unable to work in a collaborative environment. I call these the "purple cloaks" in the governmental agencies. Those people clocked in purple think they are the rulers and of royalty and need to be treated as such.

In general, worry when someone is in a government job. Most Doctors, or virologists, or scientists, went into that field never uttered they wanted to be in a governmental agency upon entry into those fields.

Spot on!

[smokeybandit]

18 hours ago, klfrodo said:

CLIA has 1 client and 1 goal. The promotion and profitability of the Cruise Line industry.

CDC on the other hand has the health, safety, and well-being of an entire nation.

 

While the CDC may have made some missteps in this entirely new and unprecedented pandemic, I'll go with the CDC here.

So you believe the CDC's statement that you're highly likely to get covid on a cruise ship, despite that defying all real world data that exists?

[smokeybandit]

9 hours ago, Jasukkie said:

Does Norwegian not test crew? I'm not saying Norwegian is superior in their protocols, both lines have had to cancel sailings etc, just what the current status is and that may be why they are changing their rules more quickly. I wish they all published their real data but I understand why they don't.

I you test weekly you can miss a covid case. I know several people that were testing negative less than a week after initially testing positive.

 

Test every 3 days, you're going to find more "cases" despite most being asymptomatic

[BND]

11 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Royal Caribbean tests crew every 3 days. That's where the huge majority of positives on board were found.

True.  Every time there were 50 positives onboard a ship, only one or two at most were passengers and the vast majority of all the cases were asymptomatic and last I heard, Royal never had to evacuate ANYONE ashore.   But, those numbers are dropping just like on land.  People speculating without any evidence that a new worse variant is just going to pop up. Actually, the opposite is more reality for viruses.  Expecting zero cases all the time is no different than expecting zero colds or flu.   If they tested everyone before boarding for the flu, they would likely find several cases also.  I just think the CDC sets a different standard for cruise lines than they do for every other business.  Some people have a weird opinion about cruises.  They think nothing of people going on a vacation to a specific location for two weeks, but mention cruising for two weeks and they think that's strange.  My mother is one of those lol.  I think some of this influences the CDC's policies.  They look at a ship as an enclosed space (petri dish) without looking at the realities.

[kearney]

I have wondered...of all the passengers and crew that have tested positive since... say mid Dec...when Omicron hit big.... how many had to be hospitalized, how many had no symptoms, how many were healthy enough to seek treatment at home. For all we know most if not all had minor symptoms. It would be good to know how sick people were that were on these ships. 

[klfrodo]

4 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

So you believe the CDC's statement that you're highly likely to get covid on a cruise ship, despite that defying all real world data that exists?

At the beginning before social distancing, masks, and vaccine requirements were put in place? Yes

Now? Today? After vaccinations protocols, natural exposure and recovery, the less evil Omnicron variant? No

 

2 1/2 years ago when this Pandemic hit and people were dropping like flies, we had no data, the CDC did what it had to do to try to save millions of live. I'm not a fan of the former President but one of the best things he did was when he implemented Operation Warp Speed for the development of vaccines.

[orville99]

15 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Royal Caribbean tests crew every 3 days. That's where the huge majority of positives on board were found.

Crew with direct interaction with guests (i.e. housekeeping/room stewards) are tested daily before they are allowed to start their duties.

[orville99]

3 hours ago, BND said:

True.  Every time there were 50 positives onboard a ship, only one or two at most were passengers and the vast majority of all the cases were asymptomatic and last I heard, Royal never had to evacuate ANYONE ashore.   But, those numbers are dropping just like on land.  People speculating without any evidence that a new worse variant is just going to pop up. Actually, the opposite is more reality for viruses.  Expecting zero cases all the time is no different than expecting zero colds or flu.   If they tested everyone before boarding for the flu, they would likely find several cases also.  I just think the CDC sets a different standard for cruise lines than they do for every other business.  Some people have a weird opinion about cruises.  They think nothing of people going on a vacation to a specific location for two weeks, but mention cruising for two weeks and they think that's strange.  My mother is one of those lol.  I think some of this influences the CDC's policies.  They look at a ship as an enclosed space (petri dish) without looking at the realities.

Ultimately, the cruise lines will adjust their protocols to manage covid the same way they manage flu, Noro, and other illnesses that crop up on cruises. 

[smokeybandit]

14 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Ultimately, the cruise lines will adjust their protocols to manage covid the same way they manage flu, Noro, and other illnesses that crop up on cruises. 

This is the ultimate next step for the cruise lines to get back to normal.

[mianmike]

16 hours ago, Jasukkie said:

Norwegian has passenger carrying ships in green and yellow. Almost all passenger-carrying Royal ships are in orange. If there is available data beyond that I'd love to see it. 

 

Yes, I would love to see the data.  Without data it's just speculation. 

[BND]

2 hours ago, kearney said:

I have wondered...of all the passengers and crew that have tested positive since... say mid Dec...when Omicron hit big.... how many had to be hospitalized, how many had no symptoms, how many were healthy enough to seek treatment at home. For all we know most if not all had minor symptoms. It would be good to know how sick people were that were on these ships. 

My understanding is none of the crew on any Royal ship had to be hospitalized and that no one was actually evacuated to land for severe illness.  

[NightOne]

15 hours ago, coaster said:

Hard to decipher the protocols between the lines now. Would take hours to analyze each line's protocols and report back on the differences on each one. CLIA should of been  involved and forced their member lines to have the same common standard.

 

Clearly you have no idea how a trade association works.