This looks promising...what do you think?

[jules815]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cdc-says-cruises-possible-by-mid-summer-as-tensions-boil-over/ar-BB1fmIxt?ocid=msedgntp

 

[Debde]

It does Jules!! I'm no expert but I always felt that once vaccines started flowing the cruise big guns would fight the good fight!!

Fingers crossed i'm spending my stimulus money for a  November vacation! Who better then to the cruise lines and Jet blue!!😆

[paulh84]

There’s no deviation from the CSO plan. The bulk of the work now is up to the cruise lines. Summer is possible given the timeframes outlined in the CSO if cruise lines don’t sit around and wait any more. 

[crazyank]

6 hours ago, paulh84 said:

There’s no deviation from the CSO plan. The bulk of the work now is up to the cruise lines. Summer is possible given the timeframes outlined in the CSO if cruise lines don’t sit around and wait any more. 

The cruise lines have NOT been "sitting around and waiting" They have been trying desperately to meet the completely impossible demands of the politicians running the CDC. Carnival's threat to pull their ships out of the USA is the best thing that has happened so far.  As always money talks, or in this case the loss of a lot of money by the ports and cruise associated businesses.

 

 

[KennyFla]

You will forgive me if I don't get excited until something actually happens.  This looks like another misdirection by the CDC to take the heat off.  The cruise lines need to double down on moving ships and keep the pressure on, not slack off.

 

 

[KennyFla]

9 hours ago, paulh84 said:

There’s no deviation from the CSO plan. The bulk of the work now is up to the cruise lines. Summer is possible given the timeframes outlined in the CSO if cruise lines don’t sit around and wait any more. 

 

You are so wrong on this.

[paulh84]

5 hours ago, crazyank said:

The cruise lines have NOT been "sitting around and waiting" They have been trying desperately to meet the completely impossible demands of the politicians running the CDC. Carnival's threat to pull their ships out of the USA is the best thing that has happened so far.  As always money talks, or in this case the loss of a lot of money by the ports and cruise associated businesses.

 

 

 

Can you show me what they have been doing? Making threats 13 months in ≠ action.

 

2 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

You are so wrong on this.

 

Please point out the errors with facts. 

[KennyFla]

21 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

Can you show me what they have been doing? Making threats 13 months in ≠ action.

 

 

Please point out the errors with facts. 

Why?  You don't

[paulh84]

8 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

Why?  You don't

 

That's what I thought. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships-Second-Extension_07_16_2020-p.pdf

 

This is where their inaction is brought to light. All of these orders are communication are on the Federal Register. Richard Fain, Christine Duffy, Frank Del Rio, etc. all have multiple statements and videos that say nothing for months. CLIA? Can't even decide on a temporary vaccine protocol. Are their plans and efforts top secret? If they wanted to paint themselves in the best light they would have released all of their actions and plans that were rejected over the past year. Since that doesn't exist, they can't speak to it. 

 

 

[KennyFla]

5 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

That's what I thought. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/No-Sail-Order-Cruise-Ships-Second-Extension_07_16_2020-p.pdf

 

This is where their inaction is brought to light. All of these orders are communication are on the Federal Register. Richard Fain, Christine Duffy, Frank Del Rio, etc. all have multiple statements and videos that say nothing for months. CLIA? Can't even decide on a temporary vaccine protocol. Are their plans and efforts top secret? If they wanted to paint themselves in the best light they would have released all of their actions and plans that were rejected over the past year. Since that doesn't exist, they can't speak to it. 

 

 

 

That document was written last July with no updates past last June.  It is garbage.

[KennyFla]

Here is a great article on the insurmountable problems with the CSO:

 

https://www.*****.com/2021/04/06/5-ways-the-cdc-proves-it-doesnt-understand-cruise-ships

 

royal   caribbean    blog

Edited April 7, 2021 by KennyFla

[jules815]

15 hours ago, Debde said:

It does Jules!! I'm no expert but I always felt that once vaccines started flowing the cruise big guns would fight the good fight!!

Fingers crossed i'm spending my stimulus money for a  November vacation! Who better then to the cruise lines and Jet blue!!😆

We're booked on Mera for mid-October. Changed our flights (for the 3rd time) last month and decided to do 2 nights pre-cruise instead of our usual one. Started looking at hotels this morning, and got those travel butterflies. 

And I've thought the same thing about vaccinations ramping up. Things are changing daily. 

Speaking of things changing, my husband and I get to do an in-person visit today with my 96 year old father in-law at assisted living. It will be the first time we're allowed inside in over a year. The only time we saw him in person was when we took him to his wife's funeral in October. We've had a very rough year!

 

 

[paulh84]

2 hours ago, KennyFla said:

Here is a great article on the insurmountable problems with the CSO:

 

https://www.*****.com/2021/04/06/5-ways-the-cdc-proves-it-doesnt-understand-cruise-ships

 

royal   caribbean    blog

 

So many fallacies........

 

The CDC thinks cruise ships are in the same category as prisons. 

 

Makes for a dramatic topic, but no. CDC explains clearly " For purposes of these instructions, CDC considers cruise ships to constitute a residential congregate setting."  

 

How do we handle a congregate settings? 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

 

• Fully vaccinated residents of non-healthcare congregate settings (e.g., correctional and detention facilities, group homes) should continue to quarantine for 14 days and be tested for SARS-CoV-2 following an exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19. This is because residential congregate settings may face high turnover of residents, a higher risk of transmission, and challenges in maintaining recommended physical distancing.

 

CDC wants cruise lines to only use gangways once every 12 hours

 

This one needs clarified, however a simple board from aft, debark from forward solves this issue. Many cruise ships already do it. 

 

Risk

 

Painfully obvious at this point. Diamond Princess rings a bell?

 

CDC wants cruise lines to do things they're already doing

 

If this is already done so well, it should be an easy box to check. They are also comparing a country of 5.7 million people that has held a 7 day average of <10 cases since October. Compared to a similarly sized population of Wisconsin or Colorado that have a current 7 day average between 700-1400+ we're grasping at straws to make an equal comparison. 

 

Ignoring evidence new health protocols work

 

Vaccines. They didn't go as far as to mandate vaccines, but their recommendation is you incorporate them to a high degree. You cannot use Quantum of the Seas as an equal comparison. 

 

 

Nice try by the blog, but that's a clickbait article. 

 

 

[KennyFla]

4 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

 

So many fallacies........

 

The CDC thinks cruise ships are in the same category as prisons. 

 

Makes for a dramatic topic, but no. CDC explains clearly " For purposes of these instructions, CDC considers cruise ships to constitute a residential congregate setting."  

 

How do we handle a congregate settings? 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

 

• Fully vaccinated residents of non-healthcare congregate settings (e.g., correctional and detention facilities, group homes) should continue to quarantine for 14 days and be tested for SARS-CoV-2 following an exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19. This is because residential congregate settings may face high turnover of residents, a higher risk of transmission, and challenges in maintaining recommended physical distancing.

 

CDC wants cruise lines to only use gangways once every 12 hours

 

This one needs clarified, however a simple board from aft, debark from forward solves this issue. Many cruise ships already do it. 

 

Risk

 

Painfully obvious at this point. Diamond Princess rings a bell?

 

CDC wants cruise lines to do things they're already doing

 

If this is already done so well, it should be an easy box to check. They are also comparing a country of 5.7 million people that has held a 7 day average of <10 cases since October. Compared to a similarly sized population of Wisconsin or Colorado that have a current 7 day average between 700-1400+ we're grasping at straws to make an equal comparison. 

 

Ignoring evidence new health protocols work

 

Vaccines. They didn't go as far as to mandate vaccines, but their recommendation is you incorporate them to a high degree. You cannot use Quantum of the Seas as an equal comparison. 

 

 

Nice try by the blog, but that's a clickbait article. 

 

 

I don't know why you can not accept the fact that people have been cruising safely since last August.  To me, a fully vaccinated cruise eliminates the need for most of the CSO.  The CDC themselves have said that fully vaccinated people do not need to be tested or to quarrentine when travelling.

[sidari]

6 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

I don't know why you can not accept the fact that people have been cruising safely since last August.  To me, a fully vaccinated cruise eliminates the need for most of the CSO.  The CDC themselves have said that fully vaccinated people do not need to be tested or to quarrentine when travelling.

Kenny ... The Grandiosa has been sailing without the need for people to have had the jab! Tested before sailing yes because even with the jab you can still have the virus.

[KennyFla]

5 minutes ago, sidari said:

Kenny ... The Grandiosa has been sailing without the need for people to have had the jab! Tested before sailing yes because even with the jab you can still have the virus.

 

At this point I'll wear a hazmat suit on board if we can start.  My wife and I had our 25th anniversary cruise scheduled for last April.  It has now been re-scheduled twice and is set for October.  I would really like to go.

The CDC is the lone thing standing in the way of that.  And, in my opinion, for no valid reason.  Whatever it takes to start.

Edited April 7, 2021 by KennyFla

[Debde]

2 hours ago, jules815 said:

We're booked on Mera for mid-October. Changed our flights (for the 3rd time) last month and decided to do 2 nights pre-cruise instead of our usual one. Started looking at hotels this morning, and got those travel butterflies. 

And I've thought the same thing about vaccinations ramping up. Things are changing daily. 

Speaking of things changing, my husband and I get to do an in-person visit today with my 96 year old father in-law at assisted living. It will be the first time we're allowed inside in over a year. The only time we saw him in person was when we took him to his wife's funeral in October. We've had a very rough year!

 

 

Jules-I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother in-law. On the happy note-glad you are able to see Dad now.

Things are changing daily and if it means sailings start in the US with vaccine required-so be it. My personal opinion. I'm sure cruise lines will do whatever it takes to fill ships to whatever capacity they can to start making a profit and we benefit from being able to cruise again. Kids, no kids, vaccinated or not. If it fits into their bottom line, they will do it. My gut tells me they could care less if they have to turn down families with children and non vaccinated people if the ship can fill to a profit making number for the beginning stages of returning to cruising.

I'm not there yet with the travel butterflies yet but i think soon Jules. Sailing picked, flights narrowed down, next up-transportation to Port Canaveral. 😀

[phissy]

5 hours ago, jules815 said:

We're booked on Mera for mid-October. Changed our flights (for the 3rd time) last month and decided to do 2 nights pre-cruise instead of our usual one. Started looking at hotels this morning, and got those travel butterflies. 

And I've thought the same thing about vaccinations ramping up. Things are changing daily. 

Speaking of things changing, my husband and I get to do an in-person visit today with my 96 year old father in-law at assisted living. It will be the first time we're allowed inside in over a year. The only time we saw him in person was when we took him to his wife's funeral in October. We've had a very rough year!

 

 

Please enjoy you visit with your father in law.  It has been a difficult year for us all and we need to give each other as much love and attention as we can.  this last year made me realize how much we took for granted and how much we value our families.   

[jules815]

4 hours ago, Debde said:

Jules-I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother in-law. On the happy note-glad you are able to see Dad now.

Things are changing daily and if it means sailings start in the US with vaccine required-so be it. My personal opinion. I'm sure cruise lines will do whatever it takes to fill ships to whatever capacity they can to start making a profit and we benefit from being able to cruise again. Kids, no kids, vaccinated or not. If it fits into their bottom line, they will do it. My gut tells me they could care less if they have to turn down families with children and non vaccinated people if the ship can fill to a profit making number for the beginning stages of returning to cruising.

I'm not there yet with the travel butterflies yet but i think soon Jules. Sailing picked, flights narrowed down, next up-transportation to Port Canaveral. 😀

Thanks.  Visit was nice, but honestly he didn't really seem to get what a big deal it was that we were inside. It was really good to get in there and sort thru his clothes, and take care of some things that we haven't been able to, a new big button phone, etc. (After my mother in-law passed away, we had him moved to a smaller studio unit and this was our first time inside his new apartment.)

And I absolutely agree with you about cruise lines doing whatever it takes to get their ships sailing again, even if it means vaccinations are required in the beginning, like what NCL has proposed thru 10/31.  I have a feeling they won't have any trouble filling their ships.

 

[jules815]

1 hour ago, phissy said:

Please enjoy you visit with your father in law.  It has been a difficult year for us all and we need to give each other as much love and attention as we can.  this last year made me realize how much we took for granted and how much we value our families.   

It's been extremely hard on the elderly. My mother in-law's dementia really got worse very quickly once we weren't able to visit. Lots of falls, a broken hip, a move to the memory care wing. It was horrible having to separate them and not being able to be there in person to try to explain to him what was going on. So happy we can drop in for visits now.  

[BermudaBound2014]

Virgin cruises just cancelled all Caribbean itineraries through Sept 17. In the past, virgin has been the first cruise line to cancel with all of the others following suit shortly after. If the same pattern continues, no cruises from the USA this summer.

 

On another note. I did not take the article linked by the OP as good news. To me, it was a response to the ncl announcement yesterday and only furthered the cdc in digging in theIR heels. They have said all along that if cruise lines comply with the conditions to sail order they could resume. The article makes no mention of the Cdc relaxing the terms. Personally,  I don’t see any cruises from the USA until after November 1 when the order expires. Even then,  The interesting question remains: What, if anything, will the cdc replace the current order with?  

 

[Jeremiah1212]

6 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The interesting question remains: What, if anything, will the cdc replace the current order with?  

 

 

That's where the next round of outrage will come from. This isn't going to just disappear on a given date. The CDC has over 400 pages of instructions for ships to comply with related to norovirus. And that was created with input from the cruiselines, which is why it's so bizarre that they just keep asking for the CSO to be dropped all together. Not realistic IMO.

 

I haven't seen anything at all related to MSC's (USA) stance on all of this. That makes me a little nervous for our Seashore cruise this winter. 

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

That's where the next round of outrage will come from. This isn't going to just disappear on a given date. The CDC has over 400 pages of instructions for ships to comply with related to norovirus. And that was created with input from the cruiselines, which is why it's so bizarre that they just keep asking for the CSO to be dropped all together. Not realistic IMO.

 

I haven't seen anything at all related to MSC's (USA) stance on all of this. That makes me a little nervous for our Seashore cruise this winter. 

 

Bingo! I know many of us are hopeful to begin sailing this summer (from the USA). And while that would be lovely, it's the short game.

[Debde]

Jules:

All I can say now is- every time I turn on the news-some CEO of any given cruise line is on talking about how they are moving business out of the US if the CDC does not re-visit this. If they are not already.

Again-I'll say this again-they are really getting ready the fight the good fight for us. Florida is doubling down too.

Fingers crossed your sailing in October and myself in November!!   🤞🤞

[phissy]

When we booked our cruises for late 2021, never thought they might be the some of the first cruises out of Miami. 
still watching and waiting.....