Mandatory ship excursions vs independent shore excursions a future possibility?

[clo]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

Not only can you not choose what/where you want to do, group tours are generally bogged down by the dawdlers and the self-absorbed who severely limit everyone else's ability to enjoy what there is to enjoy. And, they frequently involve "shopping opportunities".

I think we were in Israel on an escorted land tour. People were warned that they would be left if they didn't make it back on time. And eventually some were. YAY. And, oh yeah, the shopping opportunities. Usually in those areas most of what I've seen is "Hecho in China."

[cruisemom42]

18 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

And, they frequently involve "shopping opportunities".

 

Which are most egregious when thinly disguised as 'learning opportunities' -- like the rug factories in Turkey, the wooden inlay and the cameo stores in Italy, the cartouche store in Egypt...

 

[1980dory]

29 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Which are most egregious when thinly disguised as 'learning opportunities' -- like the rug factories in Turkey, the wooden inlay and the cameo stores in Italy, the cartouche store in Egypt...

 

As if you don't get 'shopping opportunities' if you go independent!

And how about those "approved" vendors?

[Hlitner]

30 minutes ago, 1980dory said:

As if you don't get 'shopping opportunities' if you go independent!

And how about those "approved" vendors?

As a couple who seldom to never takes excursions, any of our shopping is on our own.  "Approved or "recommended" vendors are usually on the top of our personal "do not shop" list.  We live in a cruise port during the winter months and, when we notice the price of something is too high, we will tell the shop owner or taxi driver "we are not on a cruise ship" after which the price quickly drops :).  That is something we remember when we are among the cruisers.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

54 minutes ago, 1980dory said:

As if you don't get 'shopping opportunities' if you go independent!

And how about those "approved" vendors?

 

I mostly go truly "on my own" in ports -- I take public transportation or a taxi and do my own touring. 

 

If I do arrange a private tour it is strictly on the basis of NO shopping stops included.

[rkacruiser]

31 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We live in a cruise port during the winter months and, when we notice the price of something is too high, we will tell the shop owner or taxi driver "we are not on a cruise ship" after which the price quickly drops :).  That is something we remember when we are among the cruisers.

 

Your "tip" is one that I have not heard/read before.  Thanks.  

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Which are most egregious when thinly disguised as 'learning opportunities' -- like the rug factories in Turkey

 

Oh, yes, I remember the rug factory store in Istanbul!  And, the diamond factory store in Amsterdam.  And, the factory store in India that made wooden carvings.  (That one was interesting and the items that they sold were of good quality at a fair price.  I bought several small items for myself as well as for gifts for friends/family at home.)  

[Hlitner]

23 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your "tip" is one that I have not heard/read before.  Thanks.  

 

.........................

At times it is amusing since we are long time avid cruisers as well as independent travelers.  A few years ago we had some guests at our place in Puerto Vallarta and decided to take them to a very remote restaurant for lunch.  We needed a taxi to take us all about 8 miles where we could get a water taxi to the restaurant.  I walked ahead of our group to a nearby taxi stand and asked the driver for his price to "Boca."  He quickly responded 300 Pesos (about $15) which I knew was a ridiculous price.  It was a busy cruise ship day so I quickly responded, "I am not a cruiser, live over there (pointing to our Condo building) and I will give you 200 Pesos (still a bit too much).  He laughed and that was the price.   Similar thing happened when we were on a cruise that stopped in Huatulco, Mexico.  DW and I walked to a nearby beachfront restaurant area and started negotiating for loungers/umbrellas on the beach.  A few venders quoted $25 (US) and we kept walking.  Finally we reached a nice looking cafe that had decent looking loungers on the beach and was again quoted $25.  I got annoyed, told the man we lived in Puerto Vallarta and we were not going to pay "gringo cruiser" prices.  I suggested that he give us the loungers for free for which we would buy lunch and drinks from his cafe.  His quick replay was "deal" and then he asked us not to tell anyone :).

 

So there is an ugly truth.  Cruisers are usually naïve about the local pricing and are fast to overpay for many things.  The locals (around the world) are well aware of this and often take advantage of cruisers.  So the same jewelry store that gives a cruiser a free "charm" will sell them jewelry at a much higher price then they would get from a local or expat.  Taxis routinely rip off cruisers (they have done it to me more then once) and we have even seen restaurants overcharge cruisers (if caught you will get a quick "sorry, I will fix the bill).  Even local tour operators will often charge cruisers more money then "locals" because they can!

 

Hank

 

 

 

[clo]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

like the rug factories in Turkey, t

Actually I got the MOST stunning and unusual rug at one of those stops but yeah.

[Lois R]

19 hours ago, 1980dory said:

Lenny:

To each his own.  You don't have to defend your choices to anyone and no one can say that their way is the only right way.  It's your money and your choice how you spend it.

Thanks for your post. 🙂 I was thinking the exact same thing. There seem to be so many folks who are aghast when they find out one does a "ship tour".   I sail solo and have been doing so for years and years and there are many places I have chosen to go with the ship. Have I regretted my decision? No, that I can recall. There are some places it is nice to walk around, yes, but the way things are looking right now, in our present time?  Well, I am sailing in July and right now it is only ship excursions....now the ship only has 600 guests so I think the tours will be less people as well. But for me? I am just so looking forward to sailing again and going on a ship excursion will not have a negative spin for me.

Going on a brand new ship....sailing around Greece........it is all good to me😃

[sverigecruiser]

17 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

So there is an ugly truth.  Cruisers are usually naïve about the local pricing and are fast to overpay for many things.  The locals (around the world) are well aware of this and often take advantage of cruisers.  

 

I agree with you that that many cruisers are naive but lots of cruisers also overpay without being naive. I'm not naive about the local pricing but as long as the price is okay, for me, I don't think that it's worth to negotiate about it. Maybe they need the money more than me. I should never pay more than I think something is worth so if the first price I get is too high I just leave.

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

I agree with you that that many cruisers are naive but lots of cruisers also overpay without being naive. I'm not naive about the local pricing but as long as the price is okay, for me, I don't think that it's worth to negotiate about it. Maybe they need the money more than me. I should never pay more than I think something is worth so if the first price I get is too high I just leave.

😂

[ilikeanswers]

I think at the end of the day the destinations and ports would have a lot to complain about if cruise lines kept the mandatory shorex rule when the pandemic has past. Cruise lines make a big song and dance about benefiting local economies but if passengers are forced into shorex bubbles there will be a lot of people not making any money. I would think destinations and ports will put pressure on cruise lines to drop the rule.

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

I think at the end of the day the destinations and ports would have a lot to complain about if cruise lines kept the mandatory shorex rule when the pandemic has past. Cruise lines make a big song and dance about benefiting local economies but if passengers are forced into shorex bubbles there will be a lot of people not making any money. I would think destinations and ports will put pressure on cruise lines to drop the rule.

 

One way to make the decision to drop the rule easier is if the ports can guarantee that the ship will be allowed to offload sick passengers.  Then the cruiselines can be less worried to get an outbreak onboard.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

I think at the end of the day the destinations and ports would have a lot to complain about if cruise lines kept the mandatory shorex rule when the pandemic has past. Cruise lines make a big song and dance about benefiting local economies but if passengers are forced into shorex bubbles there will be a lot of people not making any money. I would think destinations and ports will put pressure on cruise lines to drop the rule.

I hope you are correct. OTOH, cruise lines make a lot from their shore excursions, and just might try to keep them as the only way off the ship in ports as long as they possibly can.

[ilikeanswers]

8 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I hope you are correct. OTOH, cruise lines make a lot from their shore excursions, and just might try to keep them as the only way off the ship in ports as long as they possibly can.

 

But if the ports and destinations don't feel they are getting value from the cruise industry they will be less likely to be invested in the industry and more willing to kick the ships out😂. The shore bubble severely restricts where people can spend. If most locals are not making money from cruisers but still feel the impact of cruise ship tourism it will likely lead to locals pushing the industry out or placing more restrictions on them. 

[ilikeanswers]

9 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

One way to make the decision to drop the rule easier is if the ports can guarantee that the ship will be allowed to offload sick passengers.  Then the cruiselines can be less worried to get an outbreak onboard.

 

The shore bubble is more about preventing an outbreak in the first place as the biggest fear people have is being on a Diamond Princess situation. Offloading sick passengers is not going to prevent that. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[clo]

6 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

The shore bubble is more about preventing an outbreak in the first place as the biggest fear people have is being on a Diamond Princess situation. Offloading sick passengers is not going to prevent that. 

And I wouldn't want to be offloaded just anywhere.

[sverigecruiser]

32 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

The shore bubble is more about preventing an outbreak in the first place as the biggest fear people have is being on a Diamond Princess situation. Offloading sick passengers is not going to prevent that. 

 

I don't understand this? Wasn't the problem that the passengers on Diamond Princess couldn't get off the ship? If sick passengers had been offloaded the situation had been completely different.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, clo said:

And I wouldn't want to be offloaded just anywhere.

 

That probably mean that you will have to wait very long before you cruise again or that you really carefully have to choose where to cruise to avoid "just anywhere". (I understand that you are okay with that.)

 

I can not see a situation where the cruiseline keep sick passengers on the ship. I might be wrong about it but just can't see it happen.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That probably mean that you will have to wait very long before you cruise again or that you really carefully have to choose where to cruise to avoid "just anywhere". (I understand that you are okay with that.)

 

I can not see a sitIuation where the cruiseline keep sick passengers on the ship. I might be wrong about it but just can't see it happen.

I like everything you say. There's so much we don't know.

[ilikeanswers]

4 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

I don't understand this? Wasn't the problem that the passengers on Diamond Princess couldn't get off the ship? If sick passengers had been offloaded the situation had been completely different.

 

Sick passengers were taken to hospital. I think you are confusing the ships, there were situations like Westerdam that couldn't offload their sick passengers and were barred from docking but Diamond Princess the people couldn't leave in case they were sick. They were quarantined on the ship. Shorex bubble is not going to prevent a country if they wish to from quarantining a ship, sure it will make contact tracing easier but if a ship has sick people it still doesn't mean they will let everyone out. The Shorex bubble is to try and prevent passengers from catching Covid-19 on shore so they don't end up in a quarantine situation in the first place. 

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But if the ports and destinations don't feel they are getting value from the cruise industry they will be less likely to be invested in the industry and more willing to kick the ships out😂. The shore bubble severely restricts where people can spend. If most locals are not making money from cruisers but still feel the impact of cruise ship tourism it will likely lead to locals pushing the industry out or placing more restrictions on them. 

Unfortunately, the way around that is for the cruise lines to pay off local politicians. I guess I'm being cynical this morning.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Unfortunately, the way around that is for the cruise lines to pay off local politicians. I guess I'm being cynical this morning.

 

I hear what you are saying and certainly the cruise lines have wielded a heavy arm but I think any destination can have a breaking point, just look at Key West fighting to keep their cruise ship restrictions and when you consider that the main argument to resume cruising is to bring economy to the port destinations then shorex bubbles would fly in the face of this and make a lot of locals whose businesses aren't contracted to the bubble question the point of having cruises at all. I just can't see cruise lines maintaining this practice long term without getting condemned and if the condemnation is strong enough even the cruise friendly politicians will find it hard to ignore.

[navybankerteacher]

On 4/25/2021 at 2:30 PM, 1980dory said:

As if you don't get 'shopping opportunities' if you go independent!

And how about those "approved" vendors?

“Independent” in this context means doing it on your own, not signing up with tour operators who are independent of the cruise line.

[clo]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

“Independent” in this context means doing it on your own, not signing up with tour operators who are independent of the cruise line.

Yeah, when we've done group land tours and get off the coach, whichever way they go we do 180 from that. And then up or down side streets/alleys. That's independent to us.