Judge may not rule before July 1 (FL vs CDC)

[TNcruising02]

So cruising should have been shut down for over a year?  I'm glad Florida filed the suit because many people disagree and think that it could have opened with precautions like everything else in the entire country.  Those who are afraid and want zero covid cases in order to live again should just stay home.  Every time I travel, I risk getting a contagious disease.  That's my choice to take the risk, or at least it used to be before the CDC shut down an entire industry using March 2020 stats as their basis.  They can't even prove that masks and social distancing helped the pandemic.

Edited June 13, 2021 by TNcruising02

[ChutChut]

21 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

 

I feel like that isn't going to happen with Congress enacting the Alaska thing it feels like Congress agreed that the CDC has this authority. 

It's not up to Congress to "agree" the CDC has the authority. And that's not what the law reflects.  The law reflects that if certain cruise ships want to circumvent the existing law, they must adhere to CDC GUIDELINES. It's up to the judicial branch to determine whether the CDC has the authority to dictate certain percentages, etc. for the cruise industry.

[ChutChut]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Florida already failed. They were seeking immediate injunctive relief and got nothing but mediation and they failed at that. Despite being appointed by a republican, the judge seems to be grilling both sides and being apolitical.

 

 

That's the way a qualified and good judge should comport him/herself - without political leanings. Something most judges no longer do. BTW - Florida in no way "failed" at mediation. It's not even a term used in mediation. It merely means the parties didn't come to any agreement but neither party "failed."  Also, FL law is in effect as of 7/1/21. If cruise lines want to take issue with it, they should sue the state. Merely ignoring the law isn't good strategy.

[BlerkOne]

27 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

That's the way a qualified and good judge should comport him/herself - without political leanings. Something most judges no longer do. BTW - Florida in no way "failed" at mediation. It's not even a term used in mediation. It merely means the parties didn't come to any agreement but neither party "failed."  Also, FL law is in effect as of 7/1/21. If cruise lines want to take issue with it, they should sue the state. Merely ignoring the law isn't good strategy.

Historically, I think most judges do follow the law. They look at evidence and the law.

 

The Florida law either doesn't apply to cruise lines, or is unconstitutional. Either way, the courts will again decide, not politicians. If Florida doesn't make a clear exception, I think Carnival will call their bluff and have their day in court. The Florida tax payers will again foot the bill and Florida's reputation with cruise lines will be forever tarnished.

[BlerkOne]

49 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

So cruising should have been shut down for over a year?

Do you really think cruising should not have been shutdown? If not, then shutdown for how long? What criteria for restarting? Would Congress indemnify the cruise lines against covid lawsuits? No where on the planet did pleasure cruising continue throughout the still ongoing pandemic.

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Federal judges receive a LIFETIME  appointment. They either retire, die, or in extremely rare occurrences are impeached.

 

I do not know of any judge review sites, but even if they exist they would have no effect on a LIEFETIME appointee.

My asking was tongue in cheek.  A poster said this jurist had a good record, I was questioning his take.   

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

So cruising should have been shut down for over a year?  I'm glad Florida filed the suit because many people disagree and think that it could have opened with precautions like everything else in the entire country.  Those who are afraid and want zero covid cases in order to live again should just stay home.  Every time I travel, I risk getting a contagious disease.  That's my choice to take the risk, or at least it used to be before the CDC shut down an entire industry using March 2020 stats as their basis.  They can't even prove that masks and social distancing helped the pandemic.

I'm with you. They cant even show lock downs work except to ruin the economies.

 

It's all a control game to the cdc. Leeches every one of them.

 

Let those who are vaccinated cruise. A year ago they said all we need are vaccinations. I'm tired of the bar being moved by do goodies. Either vaccines work or they dont. Saying we cant cruise vaccinated is the same as saying vaccines dont work. Either they work or they don't. If they dont work dont keep saying run out and get one. Cant have it both ways. Hypocrites the cdc.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

11 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Let those who are vaccinated cruise

That is all you really needed to say.  The rest is really using 20/20 hindsight and playing on words “all we need are vaccinations” which should be “we all need vaccinations”.  The fact that about 200 hospital workers in 1 Texas hospital are being shown to door and their lawsuit is being dismissed shows a lot of parallels here.  People take their own self-interests to an extreme level anymore.

[BlerkOne]

23 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I'm with you. They cant even show lock downs work except to ruin the economies.

 

 

Of course they can. If there is a serious outbreak of anything on a cruise, a lock down is in order.

 

There is no shortage of hypocrites out there, but the CDC isn't one.

[firefly333]

18 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

That is all you really needed to say.  The rest is really using 20/20 hindsight and playing on words “all we need are vaccinations” which should be “we all need vaccinations”.  The fact that about 200 hospital workers in 1 Texas hospital are being shown to door and their lawsuit is being dismissed shows a lot of parallels here.  People take their own self-interests to an extreme level anymore.

And if we are addressing that, the cdc completely ignores all those who had covid. Yes, I think the cdc is missing the boat yet again by not taking into consideration of those who had covid. That should be enough to board and feed into statistics. .. oh I dont think vaccinations is all you need. Just one more cdc failing ignoring those who had covid.

 

That's how you read it. It's not my thinking. Maybe I have the wrong hospital suit in mind who said new hires need to be vaccinated  ..and I thought I heard United too say new hires need to be vaccinated. 

 

I'm just saying for those vaxxed, let them cruise months ago. Quit the political games. I see thread after thread bashing florida, greatest fun on cc. No one seems to care about the 95% issue from the cdc except those cruising soon. At least it looks like vista july 3rd will be a go. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by firefly333

[Metalangel1]

I have a feeling I know what's going to happen. This will drag on legally and people will be getting on the ships vaccinated or not. Even if they ask if you if you've been vaccinated, by law - starting July 1, 2021 - they won't be able to require proof on closed-loop cruises. I can walk into any store, gym, theme park, music venue in Florida and they're not going to ask me for proof. They might ask me if I've been vaccinated but that's about it. That's why you see so many people walking around without any masks. It goes by the honor system in Florida. It don't matter whether you've been vaccinated or not, they are not allowed to ask for proof. Now if you're going to another country that's a different story, however, some of the cruises leaving from Miami are closed-loop cruises, some of which, are going to Royal Caribbean's private islands. And when anyone comes to Florida, keep in mind, same rules applies at theme parks, concert venues, sporting events, restaurants, etc. These cruisers will come in contact with maskless people - vaccinated or unvaccinated - and there's nothing you can do about it. The same people walking around maskless in Disney World or at a local music venue (vaccinated or not) will be the very same people who are boarding these ships. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Metalangel1

[BlerkOne]

10 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I'm just saying for those vaxxed, let them cruise months ago. Quit the political games. I see thread after thread bashing florida, greatest fun on cc. No one seems to care about the 95% issue from the cdc except those cruising soon. At least it looks like vista july 3rd will be a go. 

 

Many of us think the FL lawsuit is nothing more than a political stunt. So to that extent I agree with quit the political games.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

@firefly333

Ive had covid, got over it, got the vaccine, not particularly worried about fools who refuse.  I do have a September cruise out of Miami in the balance.  If it’s canceled because there is another huge spike or variance, that’s fine.  If it’s canceled because people want to be ignorant, I have a problem.

 

Here is the Methodist lawsuit.  These were existing workers, not new hires.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/houston-methodist-hospital-workers-suspended-covid19-vaccine-requirement-jennifer-bridges-lawsuit/10783881/

[BlerkOne]

For now, these are the Carnival rules from Galveston, and I don't see them being different for Florida. It isn't 95, it is 100%, or as close as Federal law allows.

 

PROTOCOLS FOR JULY 2021 SAILINGS FROM TEXAS

Cruises from Galveston are available for guests who have received their final dose of an approved COVID-19 vaccine at least 14 days prior to the beginning of the cruise and have proof of vaccination. Accordingly, the following applies only to these specific itineraries from Galveston:

• All guests, including children who are age-eligible for vaccines, will need to show proof of vaccination.
• This means, that regrettably, guests who are not vaccinated, including children who are not yet eligible for a vaccine, will not be permitted to sail.*

Our Have Fun. Be Safe. guidelines for cruises from Galveston incorporate guidance from the CDC and Texas officials:

• All guests will be asked to confirm their status as fully vaccinated for COVID-19 during check-in and provide proof of vaccination in advance of boarding. (As a reminder, “fully vaccinated” means the final dose of the vaccine was administered 14 days prior to embarkation.)
• It’s important for guests to come prepared, as those who arrive at the embarkation terminal without the proper proof of vaccination will not be able to cruise, and no refund will be issued.
• Face masks for all forms of transportation are still required by the CDC; however, protocols are evolving and as changes are announced, we will share more information as soon as possible.
• While guests will be vaccinated, we will follow protocols and requirements for each destination while ashore. Remember, these restrictions are under the control of local government and are subject to change without advance notice, so we encourage guests to come prepared for potential mask requirements ashore.

Please note that these guidelines are subject to change.

* With certain exemptions, including those required by law

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Federal judges receive a LIFETIME  appointment. They either retire, die, or in extremely rare occurrences are impeached.

 

I do not know of any judge review sites, but even if they exist they would have no effect on a LIEFETIME appointee.

I left out one other way a judge can leave his or her seat on the bench. The judge could receive an appointment by the President and confirmation by the Senate to a higher court.

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Florida already failed. They were seeking immediate injunctive relief and got nothing but mediation and they failed at that. Despite being appointed by a republican, the judge seems to be grilling both sides and being apolitical.

 

 

In other words, the judge did his job the way it is supposed to be done, nothing more, nothing less.

[harkinmr]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

My asking was tongue in cheek.  A poster said this jurist had a good record, I was questioning his take.   

Yea, I’m sure that’s what you meant. 😂

[harkinmr]

4 hours ago, ChutChut said:

That's the way a qualified and good judge should comport him/herself - without political leanings. Something most judges no longer do. BTW - Florida in no way "failed" at mediation. It's not even a term used in mediation. It merely means the parties didn't come to any agreement but neither party "failed."  Also, FL law is in effect as of 7/1/21. If cruise lines want to take issue with it, they should sue the state. Merely ignoring the law isn't good strategy.

Hmmm.  Disagree. Happens all the time. “Go ahead, sue me”.  Besides, the cruise lines are finding a way around this ridiculous ban. What particularly did fail here was Florida’s attempt at getting out ahead of the mediator’s final report to the court, thinking they would be achieving some sort of political high ground, and then being brought up short by the judge for doing so. Not a great look. 

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, Metalangel1 said:

I have a feeling I know what's going to happen. This will drag on legally and people will be getting on the ships vaccinated or not. Even if they ask if you if you've been vaccinated, by law - starting July 1, 2021 - they won't be able to require proof on closed-loop cruises. I can walk into any store, gym, theme park, music venue in Florida and they're not going to ask me for proof. They might ask me if I've been vaccinated but that's about it. That's why you see so many people walking around without any masks. It goes by the honor system in Florida. It don't matter whether you've been vaccinated or not, they are not allowed to ask for proof. Now if you're going to another country that's a different story, however, some of the cruises leaving from Miami are closed-loop cruises, some of which, are going to Royal Caribbean's private islands. And when anyone comes to Florida, keep in mind, same rules applies at theme parks, concert venues, sporting events, restaurants, etc. These cruisers will come in contact with maskless people - vaccinated or unvaccinated - and there's nothing you can do about it. The same people walking around maskless in Disney World or at a local music venue (vaccinated or not) will be the very same people who are boarding these ships. 

“Honor system”.  Now there’s an oxymoron!  You are aware that cruise line private islands are in a foreign country?  These are not closed loop cruises. The cruise lines have found a way around the vaccine ban and will in fact be requiring proof of the same at the port. Don’t have the proof, you don’t go on the cruise. Just because things work a certain way where you live does not mean other rules and regulations, as well as health protocols, will not apply on sailings from US ports. 

[MrMarc]

I am amazed at all people saying "there is no evidence that_________."  When the reality is that there is overwhelming evidence, they just choose to deny or not believe it.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Metalangel1 said:

Now if you're going to another country that's a different story, however, some of the cruises leaving from Miami are closed-loop cruises, some of which, are going to Royal Caribbean's private islands.

Nearly all "closed loop" cruises visit a foreign country.  And, the private islands are part of the Bahamas, so they must meet covid requirements for the Bahamas, and come into contact with Bahamian employees.  There are many "private islands" in the US, and those residents must meet US CBP rules when arriving from a foreign country, even in their own boat.  "Private island" don't mean that the island isn't part of any nation but owned by a corporation, it is still part of a country, and subject to that country's laws.

[BlerkOne]

8 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

I am amazed at all people saying "there is no evidence that_________."  When the reality is that there is overwhelming evidence, they just choose to deny or not believe it.

That depends on what you are referring to. Sometimes the only evidence is a bunch of shredded foam 

[MrMarc]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

That depends on what you are referring to. Sometimes the only evidence is a bunch of shredded foam 

I menan this with all due respect:  Huh?

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, MrMarc said:

I menan this with all due respect:  Huh?

Maybe that's all that is left after Blerk eats his to go meal.

[MrMarc]

8 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Maybe that's all that is left after Blerk eats his to go meal.

No reason for that at all.