Will Celebrity Ever Sail out of San Francisco Again?

[TeeRick]

Nice predictions.  But overturning the PVSA except for these special Alaska cruises is quite a tall order.

[JRG]

3 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Nice predictions.  But overturning the PVSA except for these special Alaska cruises is quite a tall order.

 

Thanks.    I forgot to mention what I see happening in Hawaii.  

 

They want a piece of the tourism recovery action.    The work that is being done by Senator Lee in Utah is going to have an impact on what Hawaii can do.    

 

Posters are confused why a 'landlocked' senator would be author 3 separate bills and I think I have figured out the connection.

 

You have to take a good look at what is happening at the grass roots level in Hawaii (from their perspective) and you will see the clues,  they are there.

 

 

 

[DENIE]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:17 PM, Denny01 said:

So I’ll jump on the Soap Box! Was in SF recently and yes just as all big cities, it has issues, but it’s still a fantastic place to visit. So it would be best if posters are going to voice their opinion on some port/ship/itinerary/etc, that they actually have experience that pertains instead of just making comments based on…..??? 

 

And I’m not offended by the facts, I’m tired of cheap shots based on nothing but what somebody reads somewhere. I grew up in Long Beach and loved LA. it was short drives to the beach, the Big City, the mountains and the desert. Great. But now there are a few million joining you doing all that. Welcome to the 21 Century. 

 

I love the Pacific Coast cruises with an overnight in SF. Can’t be beat. Wish they did more our of SF cruises, but at least keep the overnights and add other major cities……even though ‘they have issues’!

 

Den

Loved our 2017 Infinity Pacific Coastal cruise with the SF overnight!

[nocl]

13 hours ago, JRG said:

 

Thanks.    I forgot to mention what I see happening in Hawaii.  

 

They want a piece of the tourism recovery action.    The work that is being done by Senator Lee in Utah is going to have an impact on what Hawaii can do.    

 

Posters are confused why a 'landlocked' senator would be author 3 separate bills and I think I have figured out the connection.

 

You have to take a good look at what is happening at the grass roots level in Hawaii (from their perspective) and you will see the clues,  they are there.

 

 

 

You mean the Hawaii that is asking airlines to cut down the number of flights because they are being over whelmed with the number of tourists coming to the state.

[nocl]

On 7/13/2021 at 4:21 PM, cruisestitch said:

Houston Cruise port, known as Bayport) was a miserable place to cruise from.  The year I was there, I did back to back Christmas and new year Cruises on Princess. Due to the fog, first a cruise (not mine yet) couldn’t make it up the channel and parked out in the bay, causing a full day’s delay.  Imagine how mad all the passengers were, having to scramble to rearrange flights etc. But what is worse, they had not properly notified the oncoming passengers, who showed up at the dock only to find no ship.  They all had to scramble to find an extra hotel night, and there weren’t any hotels nearby. So their cruise was shortened by a day once it finally started.

 

Mine was the next cruise. Having seen the effect of the fog, when the cruise was coming to an end, the captain made a decision to go on up to Ship Channel a day early and simply park at the dock overnight.  So there was our floating hotel, on the last night of the trip, parked at the cruise port, where the casinos had to be closed and we’re the only alcohol that we could purchase had to be “made in Texas”. 
 

I remember asking the bartender, what kind of gin do you have? And he said “Texas Gin.”  Well what kind of scotch do you have?    “Texas Scotch”.  Oh there were a lot of unhappy passengers on that cruise

purchased in Texas, not made in Texas big difference.  The cruise line could buy and serve any type of alcohol they wanted, but they chose to buy an absolute minimum quantity of only a few brands to save money, choosing to purchase most of their alcohol elsewhere because it was cheaper.

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, JRG said:

 

Thanks.    I forgot to mention what I see happening in Hawaii.  

 

They want a piece of the tourism recovery action.    The work that is being done by Senator Lee in Utah is going to have an impact on what Hawaii can do.    

 

Posters are confused why a 'landlocked' senator would be author 3 separate bills and I think I have figured out the connection.

 

You have to take a good look at what is happening at the grass roots level in Hawaii (from their perspective) and you will see the clues,  they are there.

 

 

 

It is interesting that the talk about potential repeal of the PVSA (maybe for just cruise ships?) has got Canada to take notice and worry about their ban on cruising.  So they blinked and moved the date forward to open up.  If the PVSA is loosened then West Coast USA/Hawaii/Alaska becomes a major cruise market.

[cruisestitch]

But there are still problems with west coast cruising.  For one thing, there are many sea days getting to Hawaii, and the Pacific is often rough.  It will appeal to a certain set of cruisers but not to everyone. FOr another thing, many west coast ports in California and Oregon have very strict environmental regulations which discourage cruise ships from calling there.  

[JRG]

2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

If the PVSA is loosened then West Coast USA/Hawaii/Alaska becomes a major cruise market.

 

The convergence of other events have created a 'Perfect Storm" for repealment.

 

First of all is the positive energy created by the unanimous passing of ATRA.  Both chambers will be looking for an encore and PVSA is going to be the sacrificial lamb.   It made everybody on Capitol Hill look good and success breeds breeds success.  

 

Secondly,   the economic inequity which has been created and perpetuated is now well known throughout,  not just on CC.    I called this the milkshake theory in that Canada and Mexico have been enjoying the milkshake of the US because of the PVSA.   This will be the driving for behind passage of the bills.     It is real and we are seeing Canada jump.

 

Thirdly,  the market segment of aging boomers has emerged and wants to cruise; those who like longer cruises but want to stay near their HMO/PPO or other medical providers given the problems created by the pandemic,  not to mention the cost of insurance and extraction abroad.   If health or comorbidities are a concern then cruisers who love to go long may benefit from a Westcoast-Hawaii-Alaska round-trip.  It makes sense.  B2B cruising falls into the same category.     The house and senate will realize that repealment will open up the markets and help meet this demand.    It is genuine and you have heard me say markets get what they want.

 

Fourth is the difficulty in producing evidence (to me) which to proves with authenticity that the PVSA is providing any benefit to cruising and its constituency,   because it is obsolete due to the nature of its origin,  i.e.  the steamboat laws.  So far,  nobody on CC has been able to explain this.   Nobody has been able to pull the "Sword from the Stone".

 

The kicker may be in the carbon footprint differential (the excess gases created by all ships required to go farther than their destination due to PVSA) and its gets better.

 

Finally,   so far,   the ramifications from the current temporary PVSA waiver have proved that "the sky will not come falling down"  if changes are made.    That has been one of my points all along.

 

This is why I say that there is a "Perfect Storm" in the forecast and being able to cruise from San Francisco and more US ports more might just be in the cards.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by JRG
spelling

[TeeRick]

58 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

The convergence of other events have created a 'Perfect Storm" for repealment.

 

First of all is the positive energy created by the unanimous passing of ATRA.  Both chambers will be looking for an encore and PVSA is going to be the sacrificial lamb.   It made everybody on Capitol Hill look good and success breeds breeds success.  

 

Secondly,   the economic inequity which has been created and perpetuated is now well known throughout,  not just on CC.    I called this the milkshake theory in that Canada and Mexico have been enjoying the milkshake of the US because of the PVSA.   This will be the driving for behind passage of the bills.     It is real and we are seeing Canada jump.

 

Thirdly,  the market segment of aging boomers has emerged and wants to cruise; those who like longer cruises but want to stay near their HMO/PPO or other medical providers given the problems created by the pandemic,  not to mention the cost of insurance and extraction abroad.   If health or comorbidities are a concern then cruisers who love to go long may benefit from a Westcoast-Hawaii-Alaska round-trip.  It makes sense.  B2B cruising falls into the same category.     The house and senate will realize that repealment will open up the markets and help meet this demand.    It is genuine and you have heard me say markets get what they want.

 

Fourth is the difficulty in producing evidence (to me) which to proves with authenticity that the PVSA is providing any benefit to cruising and its constituency,   because it is obsolete due to the nature of its origin,  i.e.  the steamboat laws.  So far,  nobody on CC has been able to explain this.   Nobody has been able to pull the "Sword from the Stone".

 

The kicker may be in the carbon footprint differential (the excess gases created by all ships required to go farther than their destination due to PVSA) and its gets better.

 

Finally,   so far,   the ramifications from the current temporary PVSA waiver have proved that "the sky will not come falling down"  if changes are made.    That has been one of my points all along.

 

This is why I say that there is a "Perfect Storm" in the forecast and being able to cruise from San Francisco and more US ports more might just be in the cards.

 

 

Thanks for your insight here!

[JRG]

16 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Thanks for your insight here!

 

Thank you and while I am at it thank you for sharing a ton of your virology knowledge during the past year  with CC readers.    

 

I've been lucky this year making predictions so lets see what happens.  But,  I am always willing to listen to an opposing argument if I see the logic.   

 

I have to say that I miss the take-away food from Fisherman's Wharf,  its right up there with Seattle's best.

 

Anyways, I would love to have SF on my cruise itinerary,  it's probably not a bad place to do a UBER DIY excursion if time permitted but starting or ending a cruise there would be okay with me.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by JRG

[Jim_Iain]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:44 PM, Kevinwinston2019 said:

Actually I wished they would come out of San Diego more...lovely Terminal. I am a Seattle boy, and they need to update the old terminals they use. 

Only "Sailed" out of San Diego once and will never do  it again.     The cruise was a Hawaii cruise and arrived in San Diego, disembarked passengers and then moved the ship to Ensanada.      When you checked in at  the pier you were given a sticker like a tour and then had to find a place to sit for about 2 hours  until our bus was called.

 

Long story short it took us over 5 hours at the boarder to be cleared and then our bus driver got lost in Ensanada and they had to send another bus to find us.    We checked in around noon and  finally made it to ship at 9:00 PM.   

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Jim_Iain said:

Only "Sailed" out of San Diego once and will never do  it again.     The cruise was a Hawaii cruise and arrived in San Diego, disembarked passengers and then moved the ship to Ensanada.      When you checked in at  the pier you were given a sticker like a tour and then had to find a place to sit for about 2 hours  until our bus was called.

 

Long story short it took us over 5 hours at the boarder to be cleared and then our bus driver got lost in Ensanada and they had to send another bus to find us.    We checked in around noon and  finally made it to ship at 9:00 PM.   

They do not do the one way to hawaii cruises anymore. Celebrity tried that for a few cruises, then wrote it off as a bad idea si ce the passengers had to leave or come into Ensenada.

 

Now any cruise from San Diego actually leave from San Diego and are closed loop or if one way either stop at a far distant port or end in a foreign country same as the other lines.

[patty1955]

5 minutes ago, nocl said:

They do not do the one way to hawaii cruises anymore. Celebrity tried that for a few cruises, then wrote it off as a bad idea si ce the passengers had to leave or come into Ensenada.

 

In 2016 we sailed from Hawaii to Vancouver. It was a great cruise and we'd do it again in a heart beat.

[nocl]

1 minute ago, patty1955 said:

In 2016 we sailed from Hawaii to Vancouver. It was a great cruise and we'd do it again in a heart beat.

I was talking about San Diego 

[phoenix_dream]

On 7/14/2021 at 12:16 PM, Kathy53 said:

I'm just going to chime in on some ports and cities of today who are experiencing more crime, homelessness, drug use and the like.  My city of Vancouver, BC has welcomed many US and International travellers and is recognized as a beautiful city.  Our port is in the heart of downtown, offers beautiful views and great restaurants BUT venture out of Gastown just a few blocks and you are in a cesspool.  I would never walk in this area and I can't tell you the number of times, while driving home from work, we've seen cruise passengers walking in this area, likely looking at a map, where we have actually stopped the car and told them to turn around and go either south towards the shopping district or west towards Stanley Park.  Every large city has its issues but I certainly would not like to stop welcoming visitors to Vancouver.  Maybe during port talks, these areas since so close to the port, should be identified as 'no go zones'.      

You brought back an old memory for me.  A few years ago we were in Vancouver on a cruise (which I LOVE) and we wandered just a couple blocks outside of the main Gastown area.  OMG.  I couldn't believe it was the same city!  I am not unfamiliar with bad areas of town, living near Chicago, but I was shocked that all I had to do was turn a corner and I was in the middle of a homeless and drug-riddled area (and heaven knows what else).  Will never make that mistake again.

[phoenix_dream]

On 7/14/2021 at 2:05 PM, NMTraveller said:

Most cities will mitigate these issues with a law enforcement presence.  San Francisco has not yet figured out how to do this or does not desire to do this.

A year ago I would have agreed with you about your first point.  These days I am not so sure.  It's a darned if you do; darned if you don't situation the police are in.  Increase police presence?  You get accused of discrimination.  Too little police presence?  You get accused of not supporting underprivileged areas.  Lose/lose.  I sincerely applaud all of the decent police working in these troubled times (and definitely do not support the minority that are anything but decent)

[Kathy53]

2 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

You brought back an old memory for me.  A few years ago we were in Vancouver on a cruise (which I LOVE) and we wandered just a couple blocks outside of the main Gastown area.  OMG.  I couldn't believe it was the same city!  I am not unfamiliar with bad areas of town, living near Chicago, but I was shocked that all I had to do was turn a corner and I was in the middle of a homeless and drug-riddled area (and heaven knows what else).  Will never make that mistake again.

pheonix_dream, both of your comments are so true.  Your memory of Vancouver is spot on and unfortunately, I have to say it is worse now.  While there is a prominent police presence, we had 2 officers stabbed a few weeks ago in this very neighbourhood.  It's called as we know it, the DTES and in full, the Downtown East Side.  A very common occurrence are individuals shooting up in full view, used needles everywhere, opioid overdoses and homeless camps that keep our police and EMTs busy 24/7.  I'm glad you loved our city but wished you didn't have to see this but, unfortunately, it's everywhere. 

[Jim_Iain]

5 hours ago, nocl said:

They do not do the one way to hawaii cruises anymore. Celebrity tried that for a few cruises, then wrote it off as a bad idea si ce the passengers had to leave or come into Ensenada.

 

Now any cruise from San Diego actually leave from San Diego and are closed loop or if one way either stop at a far distant port or end in a foreign country same as the other lines.

That was a smart idea.  It was indeed a disaster.  

 

The question is whether they will be able to do a closed loop when the waiver expires at the end of the year?   

[nocl]

Just now, Jim_Iain said:

That was a smart idea.  It was indeed a disaster.  

 

The question is whether they will be able to do a closed loop when the waiver expires at the end of the year?   

Sure why not.  Cruising out of SD is like cruising out of any other port.  Just as others do round trip cruises of of LA and SF, they could do them out of SD if they so chose.

 

Other than the Celebrity disaster that actually left out of Ensenada to get around PVSA on one way cruises to/from Hawaii, normally SD cruises leave from the pier next to the USS Midway museum.

[Jim_Iain]

4 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

  BTW, I spent my entire childhood growing up in your listed town.  Good times.

 

I'm sure  that was just a couple  years ago.    If not, I'm sure you would never recognize it.  

 

The last orchids disappeared a couple years ago and just last week they approved a 15 Story building tower and two 6 story apartment buildings where Macy's was.     The mall was replaced years ago and the Macy's store was bull dozed last week. 

[Jim_Iain]

4 minutes ago, nocl said:

Sure why not.  Cruising out of SD is like cruising out of any other port.  Just as others do round trip cruises of of LA and SF, they could do them out of SD if they so chose.

 

Other than the Celebrity disaster that actually left out of Ensenada to get around PVSA on one way cruises to/from Hawaii, normally SD cruises leave from the pier next to the USS Midway museum.

Understanding on what you mean now.    I was assuming you were talking about a 1 way to  Seattle vs something with either  a Vancouver stop or destination of Vancouver.     I'm assuming  PVSA would require at least a destination of Vancouver or at least a stop there.

 

If I am incorrect would like to understand how they get around PVSA once the waiver expires.   Personally I would love them to scrap it totally.    

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 7/6/2021 at 6:45 PM, LGW59 said:

Yes you did, you conveniently left out Houston and Dallas, unless they have no homeless or crime there?  

Wondering how you cruise from Dallas

[Arizona Wildcat]

14 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

That was a smart idea.  It was indeed a disaster.  

 

The question is whether they will be able to do a closed loop when the waiver expires at the end of the year?   

Chances of PVSA waiver being extended is pretty much zero according to my Senators.  Until things settle down NCL is planning on eliminating Florida originations.

[nocl]

34 minutes ago, Jim_Iain said:

Understanding on what you mean now.    I was assuming you were talking about a 1 way to  Seattle vs something with either  a Vancouver stop or destination of Vancouver.     I'm assuming  PVSA would require at least a destination of Vancouver or at least a stop there.

 

If I am incorrect would like to understand how they get around PVSA once the waiver expires.   Personally I would love them to scrap it totally.    

On closed loop cruises out of SD they usually do a quick stop in Ensenada just as cruises out of LA and SF do.  Nothing that prevents them from doing so today.

 

The mistake Celebrity made was trying to do one way cruises to/from Hawaii which meant that they really had to start or end in Ensenada.