HAL requiring masks?

[Sir PMP]

Can someone tell me if the CDC has ruled this, can't find anything on it. If not then Hal is creating a big mess here, if you don't believe in the vaccine than don't ask for it, just have every passenger vaccinated or not, tested. Otherwise the vaccinated passenger are indeed VACCINATED and don't need to undergo another test, period.

[Tridentnyc]

19 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Can someone tell me if the CDC has ruled this, can't find anything on it. If not then Hal is creating a big mess here, if you don't believe in the vaccine than don't ask for it, just have every passenger vaccinated or not, tested. Otherwise the vaccinated passenger are indeed VACCINATED and don't need to undergo another test, period.

The CDC has not ruled on this but what the CDC has said over the last 10 days is that vaccinated people can spread the virus in addition to the unvaccinated. What the CDC, HAL and all other cruise lines were not counting  on was the Delta variant...that changed everything, so HAL and the other lines must adapt because they clearly are having cases onboard based on the CDC's cruise ship color coding over the past two weeks. This is life now in the world of COVID and COVID variants, expect the unexpected.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Tridentnyc

[Sir PMP]

39 minutes ago, Tridentnyc said:

The CDC has not ruled on this but what the CDC has said over the last 10 days is that vaccinated people can spread the virus in addition to the unvaccinated. What the CDC, HAL and all other cruise lines were not counting  on was the Delta variant...that changed everything, so HAL and the other lines must adapt because they clearly are having cases onboard based on the CDC's cruise ship color coding over the past two weeks. This is life now in the world of COVID and COVID variants, expect the unexpected.

They have been saying that for awhile without any proof, they are just not sure, because if so they are telling people not to get vaccinated because it doesn't make any difference. My advise is to hang low right now and don't book any cruise until the 'unexpected' is gone.

[Seasick Sailor]

1 minute ago, Sir PMP said:

They have been saying that for awhile without any proof, they are just not sure, because if so they are telling people not to get vaccinated because it doesn't make any difference. My advise is to hang low right now and don't book any cruise until the 'unexpected' is gone.

 

I'm not young enough to wait until any "unexpecteds" are gone. Hoping the 3rd booster shot is available as reported in Sept/Oct. Regardless, we set sail for 3 week Holiday.

[Boytjie]

6 hours ago, atexsix said:

This has been the worst lead up to a vacation in my entire life.  

 

Oh, I had a worse one... We had a trip planed to the Northwest: Seattle, Vancouver and Oregon with a departure date of September 13th, 2001. 😮

[Tridentnyc]

51 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

They have been saying that for awhile without any proof, they are just not sure, because if so they are telling people not to get vaccinated because it doesn't make any difference. My advise is to hang low right now and don't book any cruise until the 'unexpected' is gone.

Too late! We sail with HAL on 08/14 to Alaska and frankly these new mandates are a complete non issue for my wife and I, we’re really looking forward to the sail and helping the cruise industry and the Alaska economy by an absurd display of reckless pent up spending! 😉

Edited August 5, 2021 by Tridentnyc

[nocl]

56 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

They have been saying that for awhile without any proof, they are just not sure, because if so they are telling people not to get vaccinated because it doesn't make any difference. My advise is to hang low right now and don't book any cruise until the 'unexpected' is gone.

Only for those that want to hear something else than the CDC is saying.

 

What they are saying is 

 

1. There are break through cases with Delta Variant

2. Those that have been vaccinated and gotten infected with Delta can infect others, unlike with previous strains

3. Most people going to the hospital or dying are unvaccinated.

4. If one is vaccinated the numbers that get serious illness is very low.

 

 

oh and there is plenty of data that support those comments.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by nocl

[Cruising-along]

2 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

Maybe HAL is working on pier testing, but not yet ready to roll it out. Time will tell. Being it appears it is hard to get the tests locally at the embarkation port, it seems it would make a lot of sense for the cruise lines to provide them. What about the locals need for testing, if scarce tests are being taken by travelers?

When did it go to 95%? Did HAL send out a generic Carnival email?

 

Wow. Really glad I don’t have anything booked.

That's what I'm trying to find out too!  I was quoting DWAliaschief's email she got from HAL that said 95% vaccinated....I've never heard it went to 95%.

[atexsix]

Be careful, I got ripped earlier today for merely suggesting the CDC played a role in this.  But I can't see them not with their color coded system and "under investigation" if you look at the website based on it.

[atexsix]

2 minutes ago, Cruising-along said:

That's what I'm trying to find out too!  I was quoting DWAliaschief's email she got from HAL that said 95% vaccinated....I've never heard it went to 95%.

 

This is what I wrote earlier in our roll call:

 

Here's a hypothetical:

 

What if they could do it both ways, encourage people to get tested on their own and no lines when they show up at the pier, they can get right on the ship, offer an onboard credit of $100 as an extra incentive. Then have testing available for everybody else, with the caveat that it might be a few hours before they can board.

 

In the meantime, sail at 7 instead of 4 and arrive in Juneau at 4 instead of 1.  I know that would require some shuffling around of shore excursions but it's better than nothing. 

 

I don't know if any of that is possible, just thinking out loud. 

 

I'm sure somebody here will find a reason to poopoo it.

[nocl]

14 minutes ago, atexsix said:

 

This is what I wrote earlier in our roll call:

 

Here's a hypothetical:

 

What if they could do it both ways, encourage people to get tested on their own and no lines when they show up at the pier, they can get right on the ship, offer an onboard credit of $100 as an extra incentive. Then have testing available for everybody else, with the caveat that it might be a few hours before they can board.

 

In the meantime, sail at 7 instead of 4 and arrive in Juneau at 4 instead of 1.  I know that would require some shuffling around of shore excursions but it's better than nothing. 

 

I don't know if any of that is possible, just thinking out loud. 

 

I'm sure somebody here will find a reason to poopoo it.

A couple of reasons why they don't

 

1. The cruise lines would need to include it in their fare calculation

2. The cruise lines would have to take legal responsibility for the testing process

3. The cruise lines would have to deal with the positive results from the testing and what to do with passengers that test positive.

 

In Europe the protocols that have been approved in Italy and Greece do require everyone to get tested at the pier at time of boarding.  It is a requirement for the cruise lines to sail.  But the cruises were priced and scheduled with that process in mind.

 

Have not heard if MSC is going to use that process in the US or not.  They had stated earlier that they were going to follow the same procedures that worked for them in Europe.

[atexsix]

5 minutes ago, nocl said:

A couple of reasons why they don't

 

1. The cruise lines would need to include it in their fare calculation

2. The cruise lines would have to take legal responsibility for the testing process

3. The cruise lines would have to deal with the positive results from the testing and what to do with passengers that test positive.

 

In Europe the protocols that have been approved in Italy and Greece do require everyone to get tested at the pier at time of boarding.  It is a requirement for the cruise lines to sail.  But the cruises were priced and scheduled with that process in mind.

 

Have not heard if MSC is going to use that process in the US or not.  They had stated earlier that they were going to follow the same procedures that worked for them in Europe.

I don't think people should be so dismissive, nobody thought six months ago there'd even be an Alaska season, the PVSA will always stand in the way was the general sentiment.  Well here we are.

 

In order for this to work people will need to start thinking outside the box and that includes the cruise lines.  Perhaps if they had done that already people wouldn't be canceling their cruises.  

 

Europe is irrelevant, I don't care what they are doing in Europe, there's nothing stopping the cruise lines from testing at the pier in the U.S., Celebrity already attempted it, and it might have worked if they had done what I suggested above.  If they don't want to foot the bill, add it to people's onboard accounts, most of us would gladly pay it. 

[nocl]

4 minutes ago, atexsix said:

I don't think people should be so dismissive, nobody thought six months ago there'd even be an Alaska season, the PVSA will always stand in the way was the general sentiment.  Well here we are.

 

In order for this to work people will need to start thinking outside the box and that includes the cruise lines.  Perhaps if they had done that already people wouldn't be canceling their cruises.  

 

Europe is irrelevant, I don't care what they are doing in Europe, there's nothing stopping the cruise lines from testing at the pier in the U.S., Celebrity already attempted it, and it might have worked if they had done what I suggested above.  If they don't want to foot the bill, add it to people's onboard accounts, most of us would gladly pay it. 

Not being dismissive just saying why the cruise lines are not likely to take on testing at the pier, even as an option.

 

The EU reference was to show where testing at the pier has worked.  However it was mandated there as part of their protocols.

[cursail]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

A couple of reasons why they don't

 

1. The cruise lines would need to include it in their fare calculation

2. The cruise lines would have to take legal responsibility for the testing process

3. The cruise lines would have to deal with the positive results from the testing and what to do with passengers that test positive.

 

But they offer on board testing, correct? Wouldn't many of these issues apply to that?

1 hour ago, atexsix said:

 

This is what I wrote earlier in our roll call:

 

Here's a hypothetical:

 

What if they could do it both ways, encourage people to get tested on their own and no lines when they show up at the pier, they can get right on the ship, offer an onboard credit of $100 as an extra incentive. Then have testing available for everybody else, with the caveat that it might be a few hours before they can board.

 

In the meantime, sail at 7 instead of 4 and arrive in Juneau at 4 instead of 1.  I know that would require some shuffling around of shore excursions but it's better than nothing. 

 

I don't know if any of that is possible, just thinking out loud. 

 

I'm sure somebody here will find a reason to poopoo it.

If I ran the zoo, HAL would require you to test 72 hours before sailing. If you come to the terminal with proof of sample acquisition but no results, they rapid antigen test you on the spot. If you didn't bother trying to procure your own test, you don't sail. That way they don't have to test everybody (cheaper, quicker boarding), but people who did their part to get tested don't get dinged for whatever the current turnaround times are for PCR testing.

[nocl]

Just now, cursail said:

But they offer on board testing, correct? Wouldn't many of these issues apply to that?

If I ran the zoo, HAL would require you to test 72 hours before sailing. If you come to the terminal with proof of sample acquisition but no results, they rapid antigen test you on the spot. If you didn't bother trying to procure your own test, you don't sail. That way they don't have to test everybody (cheaper, quicker boarding), but people who did their part to get tested don't get dinged for whatever the current turnaround times are for PCR testing.

Not really because the on board testing for cruises out of the US are for medical purposes if infection is suspected.  The only place you are seeing cruise line mass testing is in those areas where the country requires  the cruise line to do so.

 

In the US the requirements do not require the cruise lines to test at the pier (though a cruise line could do such as part of their protocol if they wanted to).  Would be interesting to see if MSC includes that in their protocols when they start up in the US. I believe that Celebrity did testing prior to disembarkation on their cruises starting outside of the US.

 

 

In the US the responsibility for test has been with the passengers, with the exception that Royal has required unvaccinated passengers to test at the pier and during the cruise. As well as Celebrities short experiment with poor results.

 

[Sir PMP]

3 hours ago, nocl said:

Only for those that want to hear something else than the CDC is saying.

 

What they are saying is 

 

1. There are break through cases with Delta Variant

2. Those that have been vaccinated and gotten infected with Delta can infect others, unlike with previous strains

3. Most people going to the hospital or dying are unvaccinated.

4. If one is vaccinated the numbers that get serious illness is very low.

 

 

oh and there is plenty of data that support those comments.

 

 

And I have no problem with you comment, but some pax are panicking..

[idiebabe]

4 hours ago, Boytjie said:

 

Oh, I had a worse one... We had a trip planed to the Northwest: Seattle, Vancouver and Oregon with a departure date of September 13th, 2001. 😮

We were to leave from Newark for an AK Cruise on September 12, 2001 sailing out of Vancouver.  We would  have left on 9/11 except I used Miles to fly First and couldn’t get Seats on that day.  No mood for a Cruise and couldn’t get out of Newark until that Friday if we wanted to go.  Switched to May, 2002.  There but for fortune!  Had we been on the 9/11 flight we would have been stranded in Milwaukee where the Plane landed when all Planes were grounded.  

Edited August 6, 2021 by idiebabe

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

And I have no problem with you comment, but some pax are panicking..

From what I have seen on CC it is more a matter of the cruise they are getting not being the cruised they planned for.  More a matter of not wanting to deal with getting tested and masks.

 

Last week I was considering booking a late August cruise, no chance of that now.  Can do many other things besides cruising, that are a closer to normal experience.

[theoldfossil]

FYI

Israel 05.08.21 severely ill unvaccinated 87 partially vaccinated 8 full vaccinated 167

Gibraltar 05.08.21 new cases vaccinated 21 unvaccinated 9 

[nocl]

5 minutes ago, theoldfossil said:

FYI

Israel 05.08.21 severely ill unvaccinated 87 partially vaccinated 8 full vaccinated 167

Gibraltar 05.08.21 new cases vaccinated 21 unvaccinated 9 

While the numbers seem to make a point.  You have not included the percentage of the population that is vaccinated.  For example it is surprising that you have that many unvaccinated cases in Gibraltar because 99% of their population has been vaccinated.  With that high of a vaccination rate you would expect an cases to be break through though the overall incidence rate would be quite low.

 

To really look at a situation one needs a number of facts not included in what you posted such as the vaccination percentage, the illness incidence rate as well as the case numbers.

 

Since you mentioned Israel there most recent data, that is actually based upon all of the information indicates that  the Pfizer vaccine is effective at preventing serious infection with the Delta variant in  90 percent range for hospitalization (88%) and serious illness (91%)  Though it is less effective then for the earlier variants.

 

The bottom line is Delta is worse than the earlier strains when it comes to break through cases.

 

Israel is the first country to start boosters in a percentage of their population where they have seen protection starting to weaken (elderly and others with weakened immune systems).

 

US will probably also start in September or October with boosters for similar populations.

 

 

[atexsix]

7 hours ago, Boytjie said:

 

Oh, I had a worse one... We had a trip planed to the Northwest: Seattle, Vancouver and Oregon with a departure date of September 13th, 2001. 😮

You're right, that WAS worse!

[atexsix]

3 hours ago, idiebabe said:

We were to leave from Newark for an AK Cruise on September 12, 2001 sailing out of Vancouver.  We would  have left on 9/11 except I used Miles to fly First and couldn’t get Seats on that day.  No mood for a Cruise and couldn’t get out of Newark until that Friday if we wanted to go.  Switched to May, 2002.  There but for fortune!  Had we been on the 9/11 flight we would have been stranded in Milwaukee where the Plane landed when all Planes were grounded.  

I knew people from Chicago that were stranded in Los Angeles, they rented a car and drove back.

[aliaschief]

E-mail received from Hal.

 

ear Holland America Line Guest, We look forward to welcoming you on board for your upcoming cruise. Holland America Line’s restart of cruising has been successful, our guests and team members are excited to be sailing again, and more ships are returning to service over the coming months! As always, our primary commitment is to the health, safety and well-being of our guests, team members, and the communities to which we bring our ships. We will continue to operate with 95 percent and higher of all guests fully vaccinated; in addition, our crew are vaccinated according to U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) requirements.  In an abundance of caution and in response to the increasing number of cases of COVID-19 caused by the Delta variant, we are updating our protocols and requirements. We are hopeful these measures will be temporary, and we will continue to adjust our protocols based on the advice of our medical and public health advisors.  Please carefully review the information below regarding new, temporary testing requirements:  Effective with cruises departing on Saturday, August 14, 2021, we will require ALL fully vaccinated guests to produce a negative viral COVID-19 test (medically supervised PCR or antigen test) taken within 72 hours of their embarkation on all Holland America Line sailings. Fully vaccinated guests will be required to provide proof of this negative COVID-19 test, along with proof of full vaccination at least 14 days prior to embarkation, upon arrival in the terminal and can then proceed on board.  Please note that testing in the terminal will not be available so it’s critical that you have your negative test results with you at cruise check-in. We will not be able to accommodate guests without proof of a negative test.  Please check our TravelWell® health protocols at HollandAmerica.com/TravelWell for further details on testing requirements.  In addition to testing requirements, we have also made adjustments to our onboard mask policy as follows: We strongly encourage all guests to wear face masks when indoors.  All guests will be required to wear face masks in elevators and in designated indoor entertainment areas, all retail shops, and in the casino, except when eating or drinking.  Guests will be required to wear face masks prior to being seated in all dining areas. You may occasionally be asked to wear a mask in other designated areas where larger number of guests may congregate.  As a reminder, masks are required during embarkation and debarkation in the terminal, and masks must also be worn during the debarkation process on board. We recommend guests wash or replace their mask daily and choose a good quality double-layer cloth or medical-grade mask. Please note that bandanas, neck gaiters and masks with exhaust valves will not be accepted as a substitute for a face mask and that visors and face shields are only permitted when used in addition to a mask. Please check our TravelWell Frequently Asked Questions for further details on our updated testing requirements and onboard protocols.  These new requirements are being implemented to protect our guests and team members while on board. Several destinations have implemented their own requirements and all guests will be required to follow the protocols in each destination we visit.  As stated above, we are hopeful these requirements will be temporary, and we appreciate your cooperation and look forward to welcoming you aboard.  Yours in health,  Grant Tarling, MD, MPH  Chief Medical Officer

This email may install a cookie or similar technology. For information about our use of cookies, please consult our privacy policy. Campaign ID: HETRESCOV62 Notice to Guests Regarding Advice from US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention publishes travel advice, warnings and recommendations related to COVID-19, including for travel on cruise ships, which you should consult at https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-cruise-ship before confirming a reservation.   If a threshold of COVID-19 is detected onboard, the voyage will be ended, the ship returned to the port of embarkation, and your subsequent travel or return home may be restricted or delayed.  Please add Holland America Line to your address book or safe sender list. Unsubscribe  |  Contact Us  |  Legal and Privacy © 2001 – 2021 Holland America Line N.V., 450 Third Ave. W., Seattle, WA 98119 hollandamerica.com

[Sir PMP]

7 hours ago, theoldfossil said:

FYI

Israel 05.08.21 severely ill unvaccinated 87 partially vaccinated 8 full vaccinated 167

Gibraltar 05.08.21 new cases vaccinated 21 unvaccinated 9 

Interesting, something is going on..

[St. Louis Sal]

On 8/4/2021 at 6:16 PM, kazu said:

 

Correct.

 

If you can’t board though due to testing positive you will receive FCC for your cruise - but..

 

 

 

Respectfully, on this one we will have to disagree.  There’s more to boarding a cruise than just the cost of the cruise.  Refused boarding?  Flew to Europe? Heck flew anywhere?   Had hotels?  Now you need to find a way back or spend a bunch of $$ on different hotels to await your flight to return home which could well be in another city.  Or you pay an arm and leg to fly home now.  (Last minute flights are very expensive).

 

Forget the disappointment - there is a HUGE cost (depending on itinerary) if you can’t board above the cruise cost.  At least, from my point of view.

 

 

One part of this no one is mentioning-if you are in Seattle and now you’ve tested positive for Covid, surely you are not going to board a plane for home knowing you could be contagious (at least I hope not). And what is the amount of time you should be quarantined? 
 

St Louis Sal