Oceania v Celebrity Thoughts

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Wrong. 
Celebrity is a “wannabe” and it’s only in price where it comes close to “premium.”

I think you are a little harsh :).  While I have been very critical of Celebrity in recent years (and we stopped booking them about 4 years ago) they do offer a pretty decent product with their suite program (almost operated as a ship within a ship on the newer vessels).  Where I do agree with you is the pricing which we think is overpriced for those suites and related amenities.  As we have often posted, we have been able to cruise on Seabourn for less money then the comparable accommodations/amenities on Celebrity.

 

We cruise many different lines (at least that was the case before COVID) and find terrific value with quite a few lines.   The "ship within a ship" concept has added many more options to the cruise world and given folks like us (who enjoy variety in our cruise lines and ships) many more choices.  Consider that our bookings for the next 15 months include Seabourn, Oceania, HAL, and Princess.   Unfortunately we had to cancel our lone MSC cruise (Yacht Club) which we thought provided more "value" then any of the other lines.  We are currently looking at some more booking options with "O," Silverseas and Viking.   As things continue to open up we will continue to act like kids in a candy store :.

 

Hank

[Flatbush Flyer]

46 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I think you are a little harsh :).  While I have been very critical of Celebrity in recent years (and we stopped booking them about 4 years ago) they do offer a pretty decent product with their suite program (almost operated as a ship within a ship on the newer vessels).  Where I do agree with you is the pricing which we think is overpriced for those suites and related amenities.  As we have often posted, we have been able to cruise on Seabourn for less money then the comparable accommodations/amenities on Celebrity.

 

We cruise many different lines (at least that was the case before COVID) and find terrific value with quite a few lines.   The "ship within a ship" concept has added many more options to the cruise world and given folks like us (who enjoy variety in our cruise lines and ships) many more choices.  Consider that our bookings for the next 15 months include Seabourn, Oceania, HAL, and Princess.   Unfortunately we had to cancel our lone MSC cruise (Yacht Club) which we thought provided more "value" then any of the other lines.  We are currently looking at some more booking options with "O," Silverseas and Viking.   As things continue to open up we will continue to act like kids in a candy store :.

 

Hank

Let’s agree to disagree.

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

@Hlitner I hope you get to sail on MSC Yacht Club some day.  IMHO it is a much better value than Celebrity Suite Class.  People complain about the dichotomy when you leave the YC area, but we did not find that a problem at all because our Butler always led us to the shows and tenders and skipped any lines.  On Celebrity, when you leave the Retreat you are plunged into the lesser atmosphere of the X ship with its loud music and crowds and no one to steer you through.

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

@Hlitner I hope you get to sail on MSC Yacht Club some day.  IMHO it is a much better value than Celebrity Suite Class.  People complain about the dichotomy when you leave the YC area, but we did not find that a problem at all because our Butler always led us to the shows and tenders and skipped any lines.  On Celebrity, when you leave the Retreat you are plunged into the lesser atmosphere of the X ship with its loud music and crowds and no one to steer you through.

We have cruised in the YC on a couple of cruises (Divina) and agree with everything you say.  Love the YC and will do it again when we find the right itinerary and timing.  I think about 4 years ago (when the YC cost about $300 per person/day) we called it the best value in the cruise world.  Even at today's higher cost it is still one of the best bargains.   We had booked 14 days on the Meraviglia for next month but cancelled that booking when we had too many doubts about all the rules being imposed on cruises from Florida (replaced it with the Seabourn Odyssey out of Barbados).

 

Hank

[MarkWiltonM]

22 hours ago, AlexCherie said:

Many Oceania cruisers, which include current and previous Celebrity cruisers, are quite value conscious.

 

We have two Celebrity cruises scheduled. Both are Concierge-class cabins purchased pre-Covid before "Always Included" and the breathtaking increase in fares. Now we have two Oceania cruises scheduled in veranda cabins. One is on Riviera and one is on Sirena. They were less expensive than comparable staterooms on Edge-class ships and only slightly more than comparable staterooms on Solstice-class ships. When deciding on the Oceania cruises, I compared the pricing to similar itineraries and dates on Celebrity. The fact that we don't drink alcohol but do drink specialty coffees makes Oceania a much better value for us than Celebrity's "Always Included" scheme. Oceania also includes bottled water, internet, and specialty restaurants, and our TA takes care of gratuities. We are super-excited about the new Oceania Vista ship, which we plan to book for autumn 2023 as soon as the bookings open. (We found it interesting that Vista has a few "Juliette balcony" cabins that are equivalent to Celebrity's Infinite veranda but there are, as I said, just a few, and they are less expensive than an actual veranda. And the Juliette balconies appear to have traditional sliding glass doors that you can manually open rather than the sometimes problematic electric vertically descending window on Celebrity Edge class.)

 

I suspect the only thing I'll miss on Celebrity is Cafe al Bacio, but I'm happy to see that Oceania is expanding its Baristas coffee bar on Vista to include a bakery. 

 

We also cruised Crystal this summer on a 7-night Bahamas itinerary aboard Serenity. Food was great -- and consistently good in every venue (a rarity) -- service was unbelievable,  and the price was comparable to Celebrity's Edge class but more expensive than Oceania (especially since we don't need to purchase a drinks package on Oceania). It will be interesting to compare Crystal's and Celebrity's food to Oceania's.

 

We are just about to hit "Elite" on Celebrity but I'm not sure we'll be back after our upcoming cruises on Equinox and Millennium. Many fond memories of Celebrity but the "value" proposition is number 1 for us. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by MarkWiltonM
typo

[AlexCherie]

55 minutes ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

We have two Celebrity cruises scheduled. Both are Concierge-class cabins purchased pre-Covid before "Always Included" and the breathtaking increase in fares. Now we have two Oceania cruises scheduled in veranda cabins. One is on Riviera and one is on Sirena. They were less expensive than comparable staterooms on Edge-class ships and only slightly more than comparable staterooms on Solstice-class ships. When deciding on the Oceania cruises, I compared the pricing to similar itineraries and dates on Celebrity. The fact that we don't drink alcohol but do drink specialty coffees makes Oceania a much better value for us than Celebrity's "Always Included" scheme. Oceania also includes bottled water, internet, and specialty restaurants, and our TA takes care of gratuities. We are super-excited about the new Oceania Vista ship, which we plan to book for autumn 2023 as soon as the bookings open. (We found it interesting that Vista has a few "Juliette balcony" cabins that are equivalent to Celebrity's Infinite veranda but there are, as I said, just a few, and they are less expensive than an actual veranda. And the Juliette balconies appear to have traditional sliding glass doors that you can manually open rather than the sometimes problematic electric vertically descending window on Celebrity Edge class.)

 

I suspect the only thing I'll miss on Celebrity is Cafe al Bacio, but I'm happy to see that Oceania is expanding its Baristas coffee bar on Vista to include a bakery. 

 

We also cruised Crystal this summer on a 7-night Bahamas itinerary aboard Serenity. Food was great -- and consistently good in every venue (a rarity) -- service was unbelievable,  and the price was comparable to Celebrity's Edge class but more expensive than Oceania (especially since we don't need to purchase a drinks package on Oceania). It will be interesting to compare Crystal's and Celebrity's food to Oceania's.

 

We are just about to hit "Elite" on Celebrity but I'm not sure we'll be back after our upcoming cruises on Equinox and Millennium. Many fond memories of Celebrity but the "value" proposition is number 1 for us. 

Surprised you were able to find a Crystal cruise even remotely close to anything that Celebrity offers. 

I am particularly like you - not much for booze, loved Cafe al Bacio. Never been on Edge, and unlikely to go there. If this trip turns out like I think it will, our Elite status will be far behind us. It's not like we were getting some great benefits from it anyway.

[mauibabes]

I am curious because we have only sailed Celebrity once in Aqua Class and were underwhelmed. We hear many X cruisers mention Elite level. What does that mean in amenities? How does it compare to the Oceania Club amenity levels? 
Mauibabes

[AlexCherie]

19 minutes ago, mauibabes said:

I am curious because we have only sailed Celebrity once in Aqua Class and were underwhelmed. We hear many X cruisers mention Elite level. What does that mean in amenities? How does it compare to the Oceania Club amenity levels? 
Mauibabes

1 load of laundry, a 10% discount on beverage package, a discount on Internet package; some other odds and ends.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

22 minutes ago, AlexCherie said:

Surprised you were able to find a Crystal cruise even remotely close to anything that Celebrity offers. 

I am particularly like you - not much for booze, loved Cafe al Bacio. Never been on Edge, and unlikely to go there. If this trip turns out like I think it will, our Elite status will be far behind us. It's not like we were getting some great benefits from it anyway.

Twenty cruise credits on O gets you a 14 day complementary cruise to anywhere. 
The O club perks can be substantial: Besides the cruise, there’s SBC, gratuities, discounted purchases. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

13 minutes ago, AlexCherie said:

1 load of laundry, a 10% discount on beverage package, a discount on Internet package; some other odds and ends.

 

LOL.

Platinum on O gets the free cruise (every 20 cruise credits); $500 cabin SBC; gratuities covered (or added $250 SBC if your TA covers gratuities) $150 pp spa credit; various discounts..... and, other than the free cruise, the other perks are for every cruise.

No status at all? You still get unlimited internet, no cost beverages and no charge specialty restaurants.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer

[mauibabes]

I know the Oceania Club levels and their Value, I was just trying to understand why X guests were so enamored with being Elite? To me it is a bunch of “Ho hum”. We have normally sailed Concierge level or if given the opportunity to upgrade, we have had a PH and our amenities at that level make Elite sound insignificant. 
We got into a similar discussion with our Princess Commodore level friends and their amenities were pretty comparable to standard Oceania Concierge Class . Our TA can most often get Free Gratuities and some additional SBC and always seems to come up with some additional Premium Dining reservations. Since we are now at Platinum, it is hard to remember back to when we did not always have Free Gratuities and a pot of SBC and Free Air Deviation or Spa treatments.

 

To all the X men and women who are awakening to the beauty of Oceania, you are joining the promised land of Value with Oceania, WELCOME. Flatbush definitely emphasized the value in Oceania and the Oceania Club.  
Mauibabes

 

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, mauibabes said:

I know the Oceania Club levels and their Value, I was just trying to understand why X guests were so enamored with being Elite? To me it is a bunch of “Ho hum”. We have normally sailed Concierge level or if given the opportunity to upgrade, we have had a PH and our amenities at that level make Elite sound insignificant. 
We got into a similar discussion with our Princess Commodore level friends and their amenities were pretty comparable to standard Oceania Concierge Class . Our TA can most often get Free Gratuities and some additional SBC and always seems to come up with some additional Premium Dining reservations. Since we are now at Platinum, it is hard to remember back to when we did not always have Free Gratuities and a pot of SBC and Free Air Deviation or Spa treatments.

 

To all the X men and women who are awakening to the beauty of Oceania, you are joining the promised land of Value with Oceania, WELCOME. Flatbush definitely emphasized the value in Oceania and the Oceania Club.  
Mauibabes

 

I’ll say I am not cruise lifer, I do one a year, occasionally two, love land vacation as well.  The X folks, holy moly, I’m elite or elite + or zenith, where is my gelato, specialty coffee, OMG you took it away from me blah blah.  That is their right of course but I cruise for the overall on board experience and ambiance and the itinerary, hence my preference for staying in a suite, gives me and my husband us time.  X boards are interesting to say the least.

[happy cruzer]

Are we missing the comparision of inside/outside/balcony experiences/costs? 

 

On Oceania's R ships the lower categories don't really compare that well to newer Celebrity ships.  But if you are interested in the intinaray and like being on a small ship, Oceania can be the choice.

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

Are we missing the comparision of inside/outside/balcony experiences/costs? 

 

On Oceania's R ships the lower categories don't really compare that well to newer Celebrity ships.  But if you are interested in the intinaray and like being on a small ship, Oceania can be the choice.

A lot of folks compare cabin prices and stop right there. Huge mistake!

 

The real comparison is twofold:

Objective - “net daily rate” of all required and optionally desired expenses divided by # days.

Subjective - the quality of what you get and the avoidance of what you don’t want.

Bottom line remains: Mass Market and Luxury ships are no match when it comes to satisfying the objectives/subjectives of O’s target demographic. FDR took an informed gamble when he planned it this way. And it has paid off with a consistent group of regulars who basically need no other cruise line to meet their needs/desires/expectations. 
 

BTW: There’s a lot of comparisons of “mass market vs premium” lines here in CC but not that much of premium vs luxury.

 

FWIW: I’ll occasionally compare O to Regent for a comparable itinerary/cabin. In my little exercise, I add the O a la carte items needed to equal the Regent all-inclusives (booze, excursion passport, even bizclass air [vs O air credit and DIY air cash needed]). More often than not, for our usual (>2 week), the bottom line price difference will still find O the better value for what is pretty much the same quality of food, service, etc.

As I always say, O caters to well traveled, cosmopolitan folks who have worked hard for their money and understand the quality/value quotient.

[MarkWiltonM]

2 hours ago, AlexCherie said:

Surprised you were able to find a Crystal cruise even remotely close to anything that Celebrity offers. 

 

The Crystal Bahamas cruises were priced below their normal rates. And they've just added additional seven-night Bahamas cruises that are even less. From November 2021 to March 2022, you can get a veranda stateroom for $1,499 for seven nights on Symphony. That's $214 pp/pn and includes everything. (Note: Crystal's fares do not include taxes and fees so you have to add a few hundred dollars for those.) 

[happy cruzer]

43 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

A lot of folks compare cabin prices and stop right there. Huge mistake!

 

The real comparison is twofold:

Objective - “net daily rate” of all required and optionally desired expenses divided by # days.

Subjective - the quality of what you get and the avoidance of what you don’t want.

Bottom line remains: Mass Market and Luxury ships are no match when it comes to satisfying the objectives/subjectives of O’s target demographic. FDR took an informed gamble when he planned it this way. And it has paid off with a consistent group of regulars who basically need no other cruise line to meet their needs/desires/expectations. 
 

BTW: There’s a lot of comparisons of “mass market vs premium” lines here in CC but not that much of premium vs luxury.

 

FWIW: I’ll occasionally compare O to Regent for a comparable itinerary/cabin. In my little exercise, I add the O a la carte items needed to equal the Regent all-inclusives (booze, excursion passport, even bizclass air [vs O air credit and DIY air cash needed]). More often than not, for our usual (>2 week), the bottom line price difference will still find O the better value for what is pretty much the same quality of food, service, etc.

As I always say, O caters to well traveled, cosmopolitan folks who have worked hard for their money and understand the quality/value quotient.

Agree with all you mentioned.  However, if you compare the cabin/bath size and some of the options like room service (including Celebrity delivering from the dining room menu in the evening and hot breakfast); the R ships may not meet the minimum requirements.

 

So the comparisions will only work for higher categories for those wanting the "nicer" inside/outside accommodation that some well travelled, cosmopolitan folks are used to :).

 

Just a caveat to set expectations.

[AlexCherie]

1 hour ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

The Crystal Bahamas cruises were priced below their normal rates. And they've just added additional seven-night Bahamas cruises that are even less. From November 2021 to March 2022, you can get a veranda stateroom for $1,499 for seven nights on Symphony. That's $214 pp/pn and includes everything. (Note: Crystal's fares do not include taxes and fees so you have to add a few hundred dollars for those.) 

Thank you - hadn't seen those. Interesting and impressive costs.

 

 

[TFree]

14 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I feel like many the X elite, elite+, zenith and whatever other level they have seem to consider it as right that when they do not get what they want or feel they are being denied oh boy, get out the way 

I don't disagree with you.  But I understand the perspective.  Marriott, for example, also has "Elite" membership levels.  I have put a lot of money into staying, when possible, at Marriott hotels to achieve an elite level.  One of the benefits of doing that is access to club lounges when the hotel has one, or free breakfasts in the hotel restaurants, or upgraded rooms when available.  I have seen lots of complaining about the fact that some hotels are being very slow to reopen their club lounges, and that the breakfast offerings in lieu of lounges are sometimes pretty pathetic, and that sometimes upgraded rooms have been denied even when you can see on the app as you stand there that they have upgraded rooms available.  I have tried to be understanding, given the Covid crisis, but I certainly get why some people feel that they have been the victims of a sort of "bait and switch." 

 

I haven't been cruising very long.  But if I had spent many tens of thousands of dollars, over a long period of time, enjoying cruising, but with the thought that concentrating on one cruise line would help me to attain an Elite + or Zenith level, and then Celebrity started to revise their approach (to "perks," etc.), in a way that has the effect of devaluing the benefits of that level, I can see why people become irritated.  Should they be a little more gracious about it?  Probably.  Is it really all that big of a deal?  Not in the big picture of things.  But I understand their frustration.

 

Tom & Judy

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 minutes ago, TFree said:

I don't disagree with you.  But I understand the perspective.  Marriott, for example, also has "Elite" membership levels.  I have put a lot of money into staying, when possible, at Marriott hotels to achieve an elite level.  One of the benefits of doing that is access to club lounges when the hotel has one, or free breakfasts in the hotel restaurants, or upgraded rooms when available.  I have seen lots of complaining about the fact that some hotels are being very slow to reopen their club lounges, and that the breakfast offerings in lieu of lounges are sometimes pretty pathetic, and that sometimes upgraded rooms have been denied even when you can see on the app as you stand there that they have upgraded rooms available.  I have tried to be understanding, given the Covid crisis, but I certainly get why some people feel that they have been the victims of a sort of "bait and switch." 

 

I haven't been cruising very long.  But if I had spent many tens of thousands of dollars, over a long period of time, enjoying cruising, but with the thought that concentrating on one cruise line would help me to attain an Elite + or Zenith level, and then Celebrity started to revise their approach (to "perks," etc.), in a way that has the effect of devaluing the benefits of that level, I can see why people become irritated.  Should they be a little more gracious about it?  Probably.  Is it really all that big of a deal?  Not in the big picture of things.  But I understand their frustration.

 

Tom & Judy

And to the argument that the fine print says these benefits can be changed or eliminated at any time:  Celebrity has consistently marketed them as an inducement to book, so on a moral level at least they have an obligation to deliver on their promises.

[mauibabes]

Holy molly, I was just trying to understand the difference between an X frequent cruiser level called Elite. I meant nothing referring to people as elite or elitist or anything else. JMHO, when anyone, from First timer to a Diamond level, can be booked in a Concierge level Veranda stateroom and get exactly the same basic amenity package that seems to be comparable to an X cruiser who has attained the Elite category level, it seems there is major Value for anyone booking on Oceania. 

Yes, Oceania Silver level provides some great amenities as does every level above 10 cruise credits.  Perhaps I just needed to say it outright, the Oceania Club membership provides some amazing amenity value when comparing it to the other lines who might be looking to step up their game and approach the Oceania level. 
So if I am stepping  in it, it is JMHO and color me a happy Oceania sailor. So blessed to have found Oceania many years ago. 
OK, “Dropping the mic”. 
Mauibabes

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 hours ago, happy cruzer said:

Agree with all you mentioned.  However, if you compare the cabin/bath size and some of the options like room service (including Celebrity delivering from the dining room menu in the evening and hot breakfast); the R ships may not meet the minimum requirements.

 

So the comparisions will only work for higher categories for those wanting the "nicer" inside/outside accommodation that some well travelled, cosmopolitan folks are used to :).

 

Just a caveat to set expectations.

As long as we’re doing caveats: just remember that the room service food on Celebrity is still Celebrity food 😉

[tfred]

4 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

And to the argument that the fine print says these benefits can be changed or eliminated at any time:  Celebrity has consistently marketed them as an inducement to book, so on a moral level at least they have an obligation to deliver on their promises.

Programs change all the time   Airlines and hotels always had a short renewal time frame (yearly)  that was time and night/mile dependent - now revenue as well.  Easy for them as it was mostly business travel that drove it.  I was flying 3 times a month and knew what the rules were for status.  Status for the most parts get you recovery - delayed flights rebooked, rooms in sold out hotels, consistent service with no surprises .  "Perks" would be bonus but not a deal breaker for most

 

99.9% of cruises are vacation and realistically how many can most people take, especially on their own dime?  One or two cruises a year over 5 years means free drinks forever?

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

20 hours ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

The Crystal Bahamas cruises were priced below their normal rates. And they've just added additional seven-night Bahamas cruises that are even less. From November 2021 to March 2022, you can get a veranda stateroom for $1,499 for seven nights on Symphony. That's $214 pp/pn and includes everything. (Note: Crystal's fares do not include taxes and fees so you have to add a few hundred dollars for those.) 

Yes, I noticed those very affordable prices, and they were indeed tempting, as I can see that Crystal has very nice ships.  And I was a little surprised to see that one of their ships is about the same size (passenger numbers, not length) as Marina and the other large O ships, which is great because I just don't like large ships. But in the end, I just couldn't see choosing to sail on Crystal to the Bahamas or Bermuda, so I went back and looked at Oceania.  If Crystal ever offers great prices on a great itinerary, however, I'd like to give it a try.

 

But as to Oceania versus Celebrity, one thing that makes Oceania a lot more attractive to me than many other lines (including Celebrity) is the number of sea days on an average cruise.  I love that Oceania is very port-intensive, and for me, this tips the scale a little bit towards Oceania in almost all comparisons I've ever done.  If I need a little relaxing on board time, there's always that choice.  But if I want to go off the ship practically every day all day, I can.

[susiesan]

Depending on where your cruise is there are times when Celebrity may be the better choice. Although I prefer to cruise with Oceania, I just booked a 10 day Celebrity Millennium cruise from Ft. Lauderdale Nov. 29. I was looking at the 10 day Riviera cruiseDec. 3 from Miami that has almost the same itinerary. This cruise is to be a get away from cold weather trip, don't really care that much about the ports, will just be going to the beach.

 

With the current 20% off promotion on Celebrity I was able to book a veranda cabin for 2 people under All Included with taxes for the price of a 1 person in a veranda on Riviera. This was a no brainer choice for me. My next cruise after this will be back with Oceania on April 4, 2022, maybe.

[AlexCherie]

18 hours ago, susiesan said:

Depending on where your cruise is there are times when Celebrity may be the better choice. Although I prefer to cruise with Oceania, I just booked a 10 day Celebrity Millennium cruise from Ft. Lauderdale Nov. 29. I was looking at the 10 day Riviera cruiseDec. 3 from Miami that has almost the same itinerary. This cruise is to be a get away from cold weather trip, don't really care that much about the ports, will just be going to the beach.

 

With the current 20% off promotion on Celebrity I was able to book a veranda cabin for 2 people under All Included with taxes for the price of a 1 person in a veranda on Riviera. This was a no brainer choice for me. My next cruise after this will be back with Oceania on April 4, 2022, maybe.

It’s Celebrity’s sweet spot. 

Caribbean based, non-Retreat priced. There’s no way to add value, so it will always win that contest.