Future HAL builds?

[FlaMariner]

+1

 

Our travel budget never worked for the smaller Holland America Line ships.......

 

The newer ships allow us to experience a balcony at the price point we can handle.  It's simply $$$ decisions....and what we get for our $$$...great service, food, entertainment, balcony cabins, great ports and beautiful ships that never seem crowded.....that is why we love to sail HAL.

 

The biggest ships HAL sails are affordable yet they are not "condo of the seas".

 

No small HAL ships needed for us......If we had the $$$, we would move up to those pricey small luxury lines but I hope Holland America remains a mass market line so we can continue to cruise in comfort!

Edited January 18, 2022 by FlaMariner

[Sir PMP]

5 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

+1

 

Our travel budget never worked for the smaller Holland America Line ships.......

 

The newer ships allow us to experience a balcony at the price point we can handle.  It's simply $$$ decisions....and what we get for our $$$...great service, food, entertainment, balcony cabins, great ports and beautiful ships that never seem crowded.....that is why we love to sail HAL.

 

The biggest ships HAL sails are affordable yet they are not "condo of the seas".

 

No small HAL ships needed for us......If we had the $$$, we would move up to those pricey small luxury lines but I hope Holland America remains a mass market line so we can continue to cruise in comfort!

Disagree 100%..

[deliver42]

The only cruise line I know of building smaller ships is NCL on their Leonardo class, but even those are 45,000 tons larger than the largest Pinnacle class.

[Sir PMP]

14 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We are Seabourn newbies having only completed three cruises with the line (with an upcoming 27 day cruise booked).  We have been blessed to have cruised on both classes of their ships and found them more similar than not.  The larger ships carry up to 600 passengers while the smaller vessels carry about 450 but the designs are so similar that SB cruisers can feel at home on either type vessle (a new exploration class ship is soon to come).   But it is interesting that some SB cruisers do complain that the 600 passenger ships are too big :).  Our favorite HAL vessel was the Prinsendam which carried up to 800 :).  But for our HAL friends who have never tried Seabourn I would tell them that HAL is not even close to SB in terms of service and luxury.  While those in Neptune suites do get a very high degree of luxury in terms of their suite, once they leave the suite it is simply another HAL ship.  On SB we never think about happy hours (all the drinks are included at any time) and the cuisine is darn good.  SB has decent entertainment on all their ships and do have the song/dance shows that are gone from HAL.  What is also very interesting about our experience on SB is that we have found our fellow passengers to be even less pretentious then quite a few we have met on our HAL cruises.  Perhaps that was our biggest surprise when we first tried SB and were worried there would be a level of snobbism.  The truth is that on SB we have met nothing but fascinating folks who have nothing to prove and just enjoy being socialable and fun. And that even extends to the crew (including all the senior officers) who seem to enjoy being out and about with the passengers.   One mystery to me is why some folks will spend the very big bucks for Neptune/Pinnacle Suites when they could go on a luxury line for the same or less money.   We have yet to try Silverseas or Sea Dream, but from what we have learned from fellow cruisers on Seabourn we now have those lines on our future radar.

 

Hank

Thanks, Hank we're are going to try our fist SB ship once this masquerade is over..We already know 2 former Hal captains (Prinsendam) that are now with SB..

[crusinbanjo]

35 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

No small HAL ships needed for us......If we had the $$$, we would move up to those pricey small luxury lines but I hope Holland America remains a mass market line so we can continue to cruise in comfort!

We have traveled on most of the Lux Lines, Small ships, but honestly we liked the HAL experience better on the S class and Prinsendam ships. Something about the folks and crew just are more to our liking, but having said that, we will move permanently to the smaller ship lines when we return to cruising.  If HAL were to build smaller or refurbish the S class ships we would continue to be loyal customers, but frankly I'm not hopeful.

Edited January 18, 2022 by crusinbanjo

[FlaMariner]

I think HAL has decided to stay mass market and build bigger ships (although not "condo of the seas" ships) and leave the niche smaller ships to the other luxury brands.....

 

Selfishly, that works for us so we will continue to sail HAL....Hope there are enough of us to keep HAL cruising....I do not want to end up on Carnival!

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Sir PMP said:

Thanks, Hank we're are going to try our fist SB ship once this masquerade is over..We already know 2 former Hal captains (Prinsendam) that are now with SB..

When we were on the Odyssey in October, both the Captain and Staff Captain came from HAL.  We managed to have dinner with both (this is normal on SB) and the Staff Captain told us that he was on his first assignment with SB and  really enjoying himself.  Unlike on HAL (and most mass market lines) on SB the Senior Officers and Staff are encouraged (by the company) to socialize and dine with the passengers.  That is somewhat different from the current policy on HAL.  On that particular cruise we only had 133 passengers with about 360 crew which made it feel like we were on our own private yacht.   We still cruise with mass market lines (were on a large Princess ship in December) but it would be very easy for me to get on a SB ship and never leave :).   

 

As to the "masquerade" it was not all that difficult.  While we did wear masks when walking around the interior of the ship the masks came off when sitting with a drink or food.  Since SB is truly an all inclusive cruise line, many folks got in the enjoyable habit of always having some kind of drink in hand.  On deck there was no mask requirement and we saw few passengers masking when outside.  We were very fortunate in that our 3 cruises in 2021 did not have a single case of COVID and we never missed a port.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

Selfishly, that works for us so we will continue to sail HAL....Hope there are enough of us to keep HAL cruising....I do not want to end up on Carnival!

 

What about Princess?

[bennybear]

 I have read so much negativity about the Pinnacle class,  but in our experience we really enjoyed these beautiful ships.  They have much to offer, yet many don’t even want to try them, when you may be very pleasantly surprised.   HAL is between a rock and a hard place, they need to appeal to more, yet satisfy long time cruisers.    I think when some compare  other cruise lines modern ships to HAL, it’s not apples to apples, because they haven’t even tried HALs new ships.  Nor is it fair to compare them to luxury lines.  
 

When this is over we’ll try some luxury lines, but we enjoy the clientele onboard HAL.  The only time we encountered any snobbery was actually on Princess and to some degree Cunard.   

[kangforpres]

Crystal Cruises parent company is liquidating. Maybe HAL can get a Crystal ship on the cheap and turn it into the new Prinsendam?  Genting based in HK also owns or I guess now ownded the German shipbuilding company MV Werften.

 

-Paul

 

 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

59 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

Crystal Cruises parent company is liquidating. Maybe HAL can get a Crystal ship on the cheap and turn it into the new Prinsendam?  Genting based in HK also owns or I guess now ownded the German shipbuilding company MV Werften.

 

-Paul

 

 

That would be nice.

[FlaMariner]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What about Princess?

 

So funny you should mention....we have booked our first Princess cruise to sail in March....I'll let you know!

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

 

So funny you should mention....we have booked our first Princess cruise to sail in March....I'll let you know!

You will be back.

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, kangforpres said:

Crystal Cruises parent company is liquidating.

 

Please cite your source for such news.

 

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

  We managed to have dinner with both (this is normal on SB) and the Staff Captain told us that he was on his first assignment with SB and  really enjoying himself.  Unlike on HAL (and most mass market lines) on SB the Senior Officers and Staff are encouraged (by the company) to socialize and dine with the passengers.  That is somewhat different from the current policy on HAL.

 

But, it once was different.  Whether there was a company policy change or did it depend on the preferences of the Senior Officers, I don't know.  But, in my experience, it makes a difference, at times, when the crew/staff see the Senior Officers "out and about" and mingling with the guests.  

 

8 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

.If we had the $$$, we would move up to those pricey small luxury lines

 

Check out MSC's Yacht Club pricing for some of their cruises.  Publisher's Clearing House has not knocked on my door yet, but, I sailed on Meraviglia in YC for about what a Neptune Suite would have cost.  

[Mary229]

Crystal Cruise/Genting in the news

 

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/cruise/crystal-cruises-owner-considers-filing-for-liquidation

[rkacruiser]

8 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Crystal Cruise/Genting in the news

 

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/cruise/crystal-cruises-owner-considers-filing-for-liquidation

 

Thanks for your post.  I am glad that I saw that you replied.  For whatever reason, I am not getting e-mail notifications from CC's site recently when people reply/quote my posts.  I have notified CC Help.  Hopefully, they will "help" rectify whatever is amiss.  

 

If the acquisition of either of the Crystal ships could be possible that might be a major plus for HAL.  Both of those ships might bring to the HAL customer base those who love those ships as much as we love other HAL ships.  

 

 

[kangforpres]

We are just dreaming of what we want HAL to be in a post-pandemic world. But it seems a small ship that has luxury amenities for special intineraries is a pretty common dream.

Edited January 19, 2022 by kangforpres

[FlaMariner]

1 hour ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

You will be back.

 

I think you are right.....we are quite nervous....feels like changing high schools junior year!

[FlaMariner]

57 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Check out MSC's Yacht Club pricing for some of their cruises. 

 

I've been curious and nosy about MSC.  The prices seem sometime "too good to be true".  Thanks for that.

[rkacruiser]

Just now, FlaMariner said:

 

I've been curious and nosy about MSC.  The prices seem sometime "too good to be true".  Thanks for that.

 

Haven't sailed on the "luxury lines" of today like Seabourn and Silverseas, but MSC's "ship within a ship" concept worked well for me.  One gets the "big ship entertainment and amenities", if one wishes to experience them, along with the exclusivity and incluseivity of the "luxury lines".  Is the service level equal to the luxury lines?  Can't answer that, but, I am darn sure that I failed to fully use the service possibilities that were available to me in YC.  

[AFNavigator]

11 hours ago, NCTribeFan said:

Those rebuilt/redesigned Carnival ships have a poor space ratio (about 27!).  I've sailed Sunshine twice and appreciated the renovated public spaces, but, man did it feel crowded.  They added cabins but they also built a huge "Serenity" deck, which is very nice (but not at all serene).

 

I know HAL loyalists think the Pinnacle class ships are large.  I don't.  I think they're about the perfect size, although I'm quite happy on Vista & Signature-class ships.

 

I can't see any of the mainstream lines spending to build significantly-smaller ships.  The fares would have to be very high to justify them and there's already lines out there that provide this.  Economies of scale and all that.

These are some of the main reasons I suggested major refreshes of HAL's Vista-class ships might make a good business case for HAL.  HAL could essentially convert all four into Signature class ships, considering the Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam are basically Vista class ships with an added partial deck.  That added space provided more cabins plus Tamarind and the Tamarind bar.

 

HAL's signature class ships are still a great size for those looking for "smaller" ships and they still have a pretty decent space ratio.  In the order list included earlier in this topic, nobody is building ships in the Vista/Signature/Pinnacle class size.  They are all either significantly smaller luxury ships or much, much larger 3000-6000 passenger ships.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, AFNavigator said:

In the order list included earlier in this topic, nobody is building ships in the Vista/Signature/Pinnacle class size.  They are all either significantly smaller luxury ships or much, much larger 3000-6000 passenger ships.

 

And there is likely a very good reason for that. Cruise line management has the data; they don't operate and make decisions in a vacuum despite what some like to think.

 

I find it very likely that the current blueprint for success in the cruise industry calls for maximizing revenue by getting the most souls onboard OR by providing enough luxury to charge much higher prices on smaller ships. 

 

People fall all over themselves to save $100 or less on a cruise. Do we really think they are going to be willing to pay significantly more to sail on a ship with 2,000 pax versus 4,000 pax?

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, FlaMariner said:

 

I've been curious and nosy about MSC.  The prices seem sometime "too good to be true".  Thanks for that.

MSC is quite unique and not for everyone.   When we cruise on that line it is only in the Yacht Club which is a "ship within a ship" with lots of higher end luxury touches,  The YC "Suites" are more like a Deluxe Balcony Cabin and might be considered somewhat comparable to the HAL Signature Suites (I think that HAL SSs are a bit larger).  The YC offers many of the benefits of an upscale experience with also the availability of a large ship's amenities (such as nightly Production Shows).  When we started cruising in the Yacht Club it cost about $300 per passenger day which was an amazing bargain considering this included just about everything.  But the cost has increased (to about $400 per person/day) and some recent reports here on CC make it sound like the quality has declined.

 

When we were paying $300 per passenger/day it was probably the best bargain in the entire cruise world.  It was too good to be true but it was true and we eagerly booked more cruises.  At its best, there is nothing on HAL that even comes close to the service and style of the YC.  One can certainly pay a lot more money for a Neptune/Pinnacle Suite on HAL and still not get anywhere near the amenities that exist for those in the Yacht Club.  What you will get on HAL is a much larger suite...but not much else!  We think the Neptune Lounge is such a sad amenity when compared to similar lounges offered to suites on other lines (and for those in the MSC Yacht Club).

 

Hank

[ski ww]

17 hours ago, Hlitner said:

When we were on the Odyssey in October, both the Captain and Staff Captain came from HAL.  We managed to have dinner with both (this is normal on SB) and the Staff Captain told us that he was on his first assignment with SB and  really enjoying himself.  Unlike on HAL (and most mass market lines) on SB the Senior Officers and Staff are encouraged (by the company) to socialize and dine with the passengers.  That is somewhat different from the current policy on HAL.  On that particular cruise we only had 133 passengers with about 360 crew which made it feel like we were on our own private yacht.   We still cruise with mass market lines (were on a large Princess ship in December) but it would be very easy for me to get on a SB ship and never leave :).   

 

As to the "masquerade" it was not all that difficult.  While we did wear masks when walking around the interior of the ship the masks came off when sitting with a drink or food.  Since SB is truly an all inclusive cruise line, many folks got in the enjoyable habit of always having some kind of drink in hand.  On deck there was no mask requirement and we saw few passengers masking when outside.  We were very fortunate in that our 3 cruises in 2021 did not have a single case of COVID and we never missed a port.

 

Hank

We have been invited to have dinner with the Capt. on the Prinsendam. We have also had other officers join our table on different HAL cruises.

 

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, ski ww said:

We have been invited to have dinner with the Capt. on the Prinsendam. We have also had other officers join our table on different HAL cruises.

 

We also had dinner and lunch with Captain Gundersen (on the Prinsendam).  But that is ancient history as both the Prinsendam and Captain Gundersen are both long retired :).  Times have changed on HAL (and other mass market lines).   Unlike the way things work on those lines today (we are not talking about ancient history) things have changed.  In fact, when we did the Grand Med (62 days) on the Prinsendam, Captain Gundersen actually entertained all the 4-5* Mariners in his suite (he did this by inviting groups of around 10 over the 2 month voyage).   Also keep in mind that the Prinsendam only carried about 800 passengers (on our Grand Med Voyage we had about 580) vs the new ships that carry over 2500 passengers.

 

These days you will seldom see Senior Officers dining in the MDR on HAL ships.  But go on a Seabourn Vessel (operated by the HAL Group) and you will see what they call "Hosted Tables" in the MDR at nearly every dinner.  Any passenger (regardless of status) has only to mention to the hostess that they would like to be invited to hosted tables and the invitations will come several times a week.  Over the course of a short two week cruise we dined with the Captain (with only 2 other passengers), Staff Captain, Chief Engineer, Assistant Cruise Director and Lead Dancer/Singer, and the ship's Safety Officer.  A little math would reveal that is 5 out of 14 nights that we enjoyed hosted tables and we actually turned down a couple of other invitations.   This kind of thing is just not possible on large mass market lines.  Many of us who are long time HAL fans do miss the days when HAL vessels were small (by today's standards).   When HAL retired our beloved Prinsendam I likely shed a few tears (but, of course, real men do not cry).  Nearly half our many days on HAL were spent on the Prinsendam and we would still be booking that ship today if it was in the fleet.

 

Hank