Holland America Line pop quiz

[Alphen]

38 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

What is the protrusion, mostly under the water surface, at the very front of all 11 dam ships known as?

Bulbus bow (excuse the spelling)

[Copper10-8]

7 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

You've got us stumped...how about another hint?

 

Part of the ship's bow - see Alphen's response 😉 . Back after the gym with the full response

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, Alphen said:

Bulbus bow (excuse the spelling)

 

Winner! The bulbous bow on the HAL (and a bunch of other) ships is a, wait for it......, protruding bulb at the bow (or front) of the ship, just below the waterline. The bulb modifies the way the water flows around the hull, reducing drag and thus increasing speed, range, fuel efficiency and stability. Large ships with bulbous bows generally have a 12% to 15% better fuel efficiency than similar ships without them.

 

In a conventionally shaped bow, a bow wave forms immediately in front of the bow. When a bulb is placed below the water ahead of this wave, water is forced to flow up and over the bulb. If the trough formed by water flowing off the bulb coincides with the bow wave, the two partially cancel out and reduce the vessel's wake. While inducing another wave stream saps energy from the ship, cancelling out the second wave stream at the bow changes the pressure distribution along the hull, thereby reducing wave resistance.     

[whogo]

I have noticed they also have an outline of the bulbous bow painted above the waterline.

[rafinmd]

A trivia question for John or other experts.  What was the last HAL ship NOT to have a bulbous bow?

 

Roy

[john2003]

I will guess the Rotterdam that is now the hotel. I suspect the Noordam and Nieuw Amsterdam had one.

[rkacruiser]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:14 PM, Copper10-8 said:

I worked for Captain Robert Jan Kan once on Statendam going from Ft. Lauderdale to Vancouver and into Alaska. Great guy!

 

 

Copper John, thanks very much for your detailed explanations about my posts and question.  I appreciate it very much and I continue to learn.  

 

Regarding Captain Jan Kan, I am sorry to disagree with your assessment of the gentleman from this guest's experience.  A 21 day Caribbean cruise on the Noordam when he was at the helm was my most disappointing HAL cruise.  The Noordam was an unhappy ship during that time.  Conversing with other Mariners of my "rank", my perception was shared by them.  Jan Kan. as well as whomever the Hotel Manager was, were invisible during the cruise.  Both appeared only during the tightly scripted required occasions.  I encountered Captain Jan Kan, by accident, one afternoon.  My impression of that encounter was that "I was an irritant" to wherever he was going."  I would be most disappointed to embark a HAL vessel to find that Captain Robert Jan Kan was at the helm.

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, whogo said:

I have noticed they also have an outline of the bulbous bow painted above the waterline.

 

Right you are; that's a safety marking/warning for, i.e. tugs. You can see the outline of it, painted in white on both sides of the bow, behind Pam, Captain Jeroen van Donselaar's wife, "surfing" on the bulbous bow of Eurodam

 

 

[St Pete Cruiser]

3 hours ago, rafinmd said:

A trivia question for John or other experts.  What was the last HAL ship NOT to have a bulbous bow?

 

Roy

My guess is also the Rotterdam V.  

[Copper10-8]

4 hours ago, rafinmd said:

A trivia question for John or other experts.  What was the last HAL ship NOT to have a bulbous bow?

 

Roy

 

4 hours ago, john2003 said:

I will guess the Rotterdam that is now the hotel. I suspect the Noordam and Nieuw Amsterdam had one.

 

1 hour ago, St Pete Cruiser said:

My guess is also the Rotterdam V.  

 

 

At first, I tended to go with my Canadian name twin from always nice Victoria, BC and with the gentleman from St. Petersburg and picked Rotterdam V as the answer to your question Roy, but after some research..............  😉

 

The ships that joined HAL post Rotterdam V (1958 - see attached pic of her in dry-dock) and prior to first of the four "S"-class ships in 1992 (Statendam) joining, were Prinses Margriet (1960 Oranje Lijn/purchased by HAL in 1964), the two "V"-class sisters Volendam II (Brasil for Moore-McCormack Lines/bought in 1971 by HAL) and Veendam III (Argentina for Moore-McCormack Lines/bought in 1971 by HAL), the infamous Prinsendam I (1972), the two "N"-class sisters, Nieuw Amsterdam III (1982) and Noordam III (1983) and finally, the Westerdam II, (the old Homeric for Home Lines prior to be taken over by HAL in 1988) 

 

Prinsendam I, Nieuw Amsterdam III, Noordam III and Westerdam II all had bulbous bows, but Prinses Margriet and the two V's, Volendam and Veendam had conventional bows. Sooooooo, if you really want to be technical about it ;), Volendam II and Veendam III were the last two ships with conventionally shaped bows.

 

But wait, ................, it gets even more complicated since one of those two ships, Brasil/Volendam II (keel laid July 1956) is officially older than Rotterdam V (keel laid December, 1956), and the other, Argentina/Veendam III (keel laid October 1958), is younger. Both joined HAL in 1972, so that would make Veendam III (see attached ship model of her sister Argentina plus two pics of her as Veendam III) the last ship with a conventionally shaped bow. Take it, or leave it  😉  

[Copper10-8]

7 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

Copper John, thanks very much for your detailed explanations about my posts and question.  I appreciate it very much and I continue to learn.  

 

Regarding Captain Jan Kan, I am sorry to disagree with your assessment of the gentleman from this guest's experience.  A 21 day Caribbean cruise on the Noordam when he was at the helm was my most disappointing HAL cruise.  The Noordam was an unhappy ship during that time.  Conversing with other Mariners of my "rank", my perception was shared by them.  Jan Kan. as well as whomever the Hotel Manager was, were invisible during the cruise.  Both appeared only during the tightly scripted required occasions.  I encountered Captain Jan Kan, by accident, one afternoon.  My impression of that encounter was that "I was an irritant" to wherever he was going."  I would be most disappointed to embark a HAL vessel to find that Captain Robert Jan Kan was at the helm.

 

 

I can appreciate what you are saying here because I have been both guest (am again) and crew interacting with a variety of captains! There is no doubt, some captains are extremely outgoing and love to socialize with their pax; retired Captains Frans Consen, Jonathan Mercer and Pieter Bos, and current Captain Jeroen van Donselaar come to mind, and there are others. Some captains are perfectly happy to spend their time on the bridge driving their ship and the socializing part is not as important to them and not every captain is "out and about" among his guests on a daily basis; "smiling" Captain Jack van Coevorden, also retired, and there are once again others, comes to mind.

 

Your experience with Captain Robert Jan Kan comes from a guest perspective and I'm sorry to hear that you found him "invisible" My experience with him comes from spending more than half of a three month contract working for him and seeing him in action, including interacting with, and taking care of his crew in different situations and under different circumstances; a Filipino Independence Day celebration while in Seward, AK comes to mind. I can guarantee  you that the former Statendam, during that particular contract, was not an "unhappy ship" 

 

 

[Boytjie]

A question for John: What is this a picture of? It was on the Nieuw Amsterdam, spotted when disembarking at a port 

 

 

[chengkp75]

On 3/13/2022 at 5:02 PM, rkacruiser said:

An electrician or an engineer?  Why are they part of the response team?  

 

On 3/13/2022 at 7:39 PM, Copper10-8 said:

An engineer/electrician is there as a much appreciated resource for their particular craft and expertise, if applicable.

I've had to dismantle a balcony sliding door when a large passenger got stuck in it.

[chengkp75]

16 hours ago, whogo said:

I have noticed they also have an outline of the bulbous bow painted above the waterline.

This is to warn tugs and docking masters to the presence of this part of the hull protruding forward of what is visible, just like the "X's in a circle" that denotes a thruster, so that tugs stay away.

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

Some captains are perfectly happy to spend their time on the bridge driving their ship and the socializing part is not as important to them and not every captain is "out and about" among his guests on a daily basis;

 

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

My experience with him comes from spending more than half of a three month contract working for him and seeing him in action, including interacting with, and taking care of his crew in different situations and under different circumstances

John, this has been my experience as well.  I find that crew could care less whether the Captain or senior officers mingle with the passengers or not, but if they are seen touring the crew areas and open and talkative with the crew, knowing many by name, that this goes very far to having a happy crew, and a happy crew will lead to good customer service.

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, Boytjie said:

A question for John: What is this a picture of? It was on the Nieuw Amsterdam, spotted when disembarking at a port 

 

 

 

Those are personal mailboxes like you will find in a post office and/or UPS store, Peter. They do not come with a P.O. Box number 😉 I have not seen the ones on the newer ships like you depicted. On the "R"-class and Vista-class ships they are located in a separate small room to the right of the Front Office ("R"-class), and in the back area adjacent the GRM's desk (Vista). I am not sure how many folks know about them and how often they are used for a particular voyage.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Copper10-8

[Copper10-8]

Pop quiz for the day; in an abandon ship situation, which we all hope will never happen, passengers are assigned to the various lifeboats/tenders for which there are muster stations. There are of course crew members assigned to those life boats. i.e. a helmsman, one or two sailors, a boat commander and his/her assistant, and a communicator. 

 

How does the vast majority of the crew vacate the ship in trouble? Do they jump over the side wearing their PFDs/life vests?  

[rafinmd]

1 minute ago, Copper10-8 said:

Pop quiz for the day; in an abandon ship situation, which we all hope will never happen, passengers are assigned to the various lifeboats/tenders for which there are muster stations. There are of course crew members assigned to those life boats. i.e. a helmsman, one or two sailors, a boat commander and his/her assistant, and a communicator. 

 

How does the vast majority of the crew vacate the ship in trouble? Do they jump over the side wearing their PFDs/life vests?  

Life rafts.  On my Wind Star transatlantic the crew had a  life raft drill in the pool one day.  At the end of the day we were allowed to get in the raft.  It is not a place where I would want to spend much time.

 

Roy

Edited March 15, 2022 by rafinmd
My test

[JRG]

31 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

How does the vast majority of the crew vacate the ship in trouble? Do they jump over the side wearing their PFDs/life vests?

 

Mongo like "stump HAL game"

 

Mongo think know answer to question  (Mongo no fool for trick question)

 

Mongo watch Star Trek and learn from Captain Kirk,   say crew do what Captain say.

 

Mongo say crew show up and shut up and listen to Captain Kirk...

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by JRG

[Alphen]

33 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Pop quiz for the day; in an abandon ship situation, which we all hope will never happen, passengers are assigned to the various lifeboats/tenders for which there are muster stations. There are of course crew members assigned to those life boats. i.e. a helmsman, one or two sailors, a boat commander and his/her assistant, and a communicator. 

 

How does the vast majority of the crew vacate the ship in trouble? Do they jump over the side wearing their PFDs/life vests?  

The newest mega ships have liferafts for the crew that have chutes that connect them to the ship for them to decent to. I don’t think HAL has those, so liferafts will be deployed and entered by ladders?

[john2003]

Thanks for the history lesson on HAL ships. Very interesting history.

[Copper10-8]

52 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Life rafts.

 

Roy

 

Winner! There are muster stations for crew also and it, mustering there and wearing , unlike pax drills, full life vests, is part of regularly scheduled safety drills. A full crew muster is usually attached to a fire drill that is simulated to go "out of control" with the "fire" spreading to the point where the captain will order an abandon ship situation. The crew muster station are generally located on the back portion of the "boat deck," starting to the rear of the last passenger life boat station. The rafts are housed in a series of white cannisters at the railing of that particular deck and will be, preferably, lowered by a small crane with the crew seated inside or, not preferred, dropped (without crew) in their cannisters which will then automatically open once they make contact with the water. In that situation, the crew would have to board them out of the water.

 

All Deck/Navigation officers attend a mandatory Basic Safety School every five years where they will learn how the rafts are deployed, self-right them when upside down in the water (the rafts, not the officers 😉), enter and exit them from the water (not that easy), the various safety and life saving equipment that is stored inside the rafts, survival methods, etc., etc. My BSC took place in Seattle and was very interesting/a bit of an eye opener! It included the water safety portion, as well as a First Aid/CPR refresher (incl. how to properly use an AED) and, what was most interesting for me having been a cop for 30 years with a longtime friendly rivalry with the "hose draggers in their lazy boys" 😉 a full day of shipboard firefighting wearing full turnout gear, a helmet, gloves, boots and a SCBA (air pack) on your back, breathing air through a mask. Lots and lots of respect for the men and women who enter burning structures!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

        

Edited March 15, 2022 by Copper10-8

[whogo]

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Those are personal mailboxes like you will find in a post office and/or UPS store, Peter...

They look like safe deposit boxes. Speaking of which, do any cruise ships still offer them? The cabin safes look like a risky place to store all my diamonds, rubies and emeralds.

[Copper10-8]

32 minutes ago, whogo said:

They look like safe deposit boxes. Speaking of which, do any cruise ships still offer them? The cabin safes look like a risky place to store all my diamonds, rubies and emeralds.

 

They ARE in fact safe deposit boxes, thanks, the correct term escaped my limited brain capacity, hence the term personal mailbox I used

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Alphen said:

The newest mega ships have liferafts for the crew that have chutes that connect them to the ship for them to decent to. I don’t think HAL has those, so liferafts will be deployed and entered by ladders?

No, the rafts on cruise ships are "davit launched".  This means there is a "crane" or davit arm that picks up a raft canister, swings it over the side, lowers it to the promenade deck, and the raft is inflated there.  The crew board the raft, and it is lowered to the water, and unhooked.  A winch retrieves the hook, and it is a "wash, rinse, repeat" scenario until all the rafts at the station are launched.   I see John did describe the launching of the rafts.

 

As John noted, all deck/engine officers and ratings are required to have Basic Safety Training.  On US flag ships, every single crew member, down to the garbage handlers, must have the BST training, which is why US flag operation costs are so much higher.

 

As a note to John's description of crew drills, the signal that passengers think of as "abandon ship" or "passenger muster" is really "fire and general emergency" where the crew go to their assigned emergency stations (some who are extra to specific duties will go to their abandon ship station and await orders to assist wherever needed).  Even if the Captain decides that passengers need to enter the boats and leave the ship, the crew remain at their emergency stations, until all hope is lost, and the Captain will then signal "abandon ship" and the crew will report to their life raft stations.

 

I actually had a Basic Safety Training long before it was required by SOLAS, back in the 80's, when Canada required it for offshore oil workers.  Ours was done offshore Halifax, in March, in cold water and 6 foot seas.  I just did my last BST refresher last summer, where at the age of 68, I had to enter burning steel structures with 40 pounds of bunker gear on.

Edited March 15, 2022 by chengkp75