River Cruising

[Bxianesq]

We've been on 7 traditional cruises so far.  We know a few people who have done some of the river cruises over in Europe, and we'd like to investigate river cruises for possible future trips.  We've cruised on RCL (cool stuff but too many people for us), Oceania (really enjoyed our cruise with them) and Holland America (where we have spent most of our time-al good experiences). I'm trying to figure out the best way to learn about river cruise lines and itineraries in more depth. Our cruise agent recommended the following, in order of least to most expensive: Viking, AMA Waterways, Uniworld. In terms of our interests, food and wine are up there. Any advice would help. 

 

[*Miss G*]

In order of preference, we’ve enjoyed ocean cruises on HAL, Cunard, and Princess.  We did a lot of research when deciding on a river cruise and Avalon seems to be a good fit.  Final payment is Monday and we look forward to the experience.

[pontac]

There are now many river cruise lines. They tend to travel the same routes and stop at the same places. Each cruise line has a point of difference, basically starting on price. The more you pay the more 'fine dining', more things are included and the fewer passengers. But each year the experience can change.

 

There's not a lot than can be done about boat size, each river has a maximum size possible based on bridge and lock clearances.

 

You profile doesn't say which country you are in, that's important because the same cruise company can offer different terms to different markets, but I'm guessing you are in the USA from the way you say 'over in Europe' and that most people on this board are in the USA. 

 

Forum host has a thread titled Why You Need a River Cruise Travel Agent – and How to Find a Good One at the top of the forum. I'd have thought your agent should point you to one based on your wants and your budget. That they've suggested three suggests you have told  them that cost is not a priority.

 

I've done 10 river cruises, all with Viking. I'm quite happy with them, but they basically have the same menu which you can eat in the main dining room, or in the Aquavit Lounge or out in the open in fine weather. You may prefer a line with a choice of restaurants, service and menus. You may want a mini-bar in your cabin, you may want a butler, etc.

 

Get your travel agent to spell out the different offerings, or why use one? I book direct with the cruise line so I compare brochures, offerings and prices and make up my own mind. You shouldn't have to if you're using a travel agent who knows  river cruising.

 

Or just book the cheapest with the minimum offerings you'd accept to see what river cruising is like, then if you do like river cruising, next time trade up if the first line you booked was too basic.

Edited June 28, 2022 by pontac

[Daisi]

As @pontacmentioned there are valuable post "stickies' on the top of the main page that help first time cruisers.

 

Once you have your itinerary set,  you and a TA can figure out what line is best for you timewise and budget wise. A good TA is invaluable, as they do all the leg work for free, and you can just let them know what you want.

 

 

[caripoo]

Decide where you want to go first...Then do a spread sheet for yourself...They will be ALL inclusive or almost ALL inclusive....Viking has the moss ships. The ports are almost all the same...some have more overnights.....Viking has one of the WORST payment policies, but I love their cruises. I LOVED Crystal the best, but the Chinese bought their ships and ran the business into bankruptcy. I would also take a good look at AMA....Good luck.

[notamermaid]

18 hours ago, Bxianesq said:

In terms of our interests, food and wine are up there.

 

9 minutes ago, caripoo said:

Decide where you want to go first...

This could be a good way forward at this stage, meaning do you prefer red wine or white wine, do you go more for the French or the German/Austrian ones? How important is choice for you on board and would you like wine-focussed excursions on land? Food palate? Happy to experiment on land? French? Happy to go more for Eastern European?

 

The Douro is another option with I find its own wine and food, distinct from the French whites certainly. That river stands out for having no overnight cruising.

 

This all may determine country, river and in the case of the Danube also area - West of Budapest or East.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by notamermaid

[YoungDubFan]

As has been shared, most of the cruise lines offer very similar itineraries. Viking tends to have the biggest ships, so more passenger. In addition to the other suggestions, I would recommend reading some of the posts on this board about how companies handle things when there are issues. I was on an Avalon Seine cruise in France a few years ago when it was the wettest May EVER. Our ship sailed while many others did not due to flooding. These were turned into bus tours. You need to know that this is always a possibility. When we couldn’t get past Rouen on the way back to Paris, Avalon put us up at a hotel in Paris and Viking kept their guests on the ship, docked in Rouen and bused them into Paris & back - I think this was about 5 hours on the buses. 

 

Viking has the most ships on the rivers so when there is a flooding issue or water is too low, they often can do a ship swap so that you can continue cruising. Other lines do this as well. 

 

There are not as many on this board who have travelled with multiple lines to compare. Often, if the first River Cruise you take works for you, many people tend to stick with that company. I have done 2 cruises with Avalon and both were wonderful. The first was the Rhine - Basel to Amsterdam and had no issues. The 2nd was Paris to Normandy and as mentioned, we had lots of issues due to the flooding. Avalon was great about adjusting the itinerary, keeping us informed of changes, etc. I have a 3rd scheduled in April 2023. 

 

Good luck with your research. That is the part that I enjoy. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, YoungDubFan said:

Viking tends to have the biggest ships, so more passenger.

This is a common misunderstanding [which Viking likes to perpetuate].  Their ships are exactly the same size as everyone else's – 135m is the maximum length of the locks in Germany, so all modern river ships are this size.  [The only place Viking had larger than usual ships was on the Seine, and that bit them in the rear because the French authorities wouldn't let them dock in Paris; they finally had to cave and build smaller ships for that itinerary.]  

 

But you are right that Viking packs more passengers onto their same-size ships than most other cruise lines.  Space per passenger is an objective guide to river cruise line luxury.  The difference in feel between 130 passengers (Tauck) and 190 (Viking) is dramatic.

[YoungDubFan]

Host Jazzbeau - thank you for the correction. I knew Viking had significantly more passengers per cruise. It’s even worse if the ships are the same size.

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 Their ships are exactly the same size as everyone else's – 135m is the maximum length of the locks in Germany, so all modern river ships are this size.

Viking and Arosa ships actually came from the same shipyard in Germany, they differ in hull design but carry more or less the same number of passengers. 135m is indeed the longest you can have - the widest is different, we have three bigger ones than the standard 11.5m: the Mozart, the Amamagna and the Arosa Sena. But they are restricted to places where the rivers and locks allow them to sail. In Russia the ships have different sizes.

 

Good point about the passenger count, if you enjoy space it is really worth paying attention to that. You can have a 110m ship with 128 passengers (Avalon) and a 135m ship with 166 passengers (Avalon) or indeed as mentioned 135m and 190 passengers (Viking) - and variations of those figures with other companies.

 

notamermaid

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

build smaller ships for that itinerary

It was supposed to be 135m in the Paris dock (imagine stern French guy watching the manoeuvre near the Eiffel Tower "Zis is not pruper turning - non!") then Viking went to maximum allowed by the authorities - 125m. Uniworld beat them to that by about two years with the Joie de Vivre (also 125m).

 

notamermaid

 

[Canal archive]

124 passengers, 110 meters built 2014 that’s Scenic Gem. They then had to wait a season for the signed permission to moor in Honfluer, French beaucracy is wonderful.

[CastleCritic]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

 

It was supposed to be 135m in the Paris dock (imagine stern French guy watching the manoeuvre near the Eiffel Tower "Zis is not pruper turning - non!") then Viking went to maximum allowed by the authorities - 125m. Uniworld beat them to that by about two years with the Joie de Vivre (also 125m).

 

 

 

Having been on board the 110m Amadante both maneuvering as far up towards the tower as we could go and then later being in a stretch on the seine so tight that I swear the captain said there wasn't really enough water to turn around to face the other way to dock (he did it the crew was clapping over the radio). I can imagine that the 135M ships would have issues.

Edited June 28, 2022 by CastleCritic

[Poulsbo Cruisers]

We did a river cruise with Vantage from Budapest to Amsterdam. It was wonderful. Next month we are doing a Rhine River cruise from Amsterdam to Basel with Avalon. Many love Viking and they may offer a great experience. Be prepared for their payment up front policy. We also found that many of their itineraries included less time on the boat and more time in hotels. (I’m not anti-Viking. After all, we have an ocean cruise booked with them.) As others have said, pick your itinerary then see which lines do that itinerary. It’s important to see which cities/towns they visit and for how long. Also how many daylight hours are spent cruising (important if you want to watch the scenery pass by). River boats all have a maximum length determined by the shortest locks you will pass through and a maximum height determined by the lowest bridges you will travel under. Therefore, passenger capacity will be based on the size of the cabins and how many cabins to common space on the boat. The experience will be quite different from an ocean cruise. You won’t find all day buffets and very little entertainment. You will get free Wifi and excursions with most lines. 

[CastleCritic]

Excursions on some lines are (almost) always included (Ive paid for 1 excursion on 4 amawaterways cruises, to schonbrunn place in Vienna...there was a paid concert the same night).  Viking on the other hand usually has one included every day and options that are paid.

 

as for ship dimensions...they really get their moneys worth the locks are usually 12M wide (in the narrow ones)...the ships are 11.5M

 

And then there is height (note to a discussion I was having on displacement...shes WAY low in the water here...full 2M other days she was at 1.6). you cant even see the wheelhouse its been dropped all the way down, Captain is driving from the wing station they use in the locks on the shore side. (Amaprima at Volkach Germany, Main River)

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by CastleCritic

[Roz]

@Bxianesq, I've done ocean cruises on Carnival, Princess, and Holland America.  Mostly on HAL.  My TA recommended Uniworld to me.  She had just come back from one of their cruises and sang their praises.  I wasn't disappointed.  So far I've done 3 river cruises with them and am going to try Tauck this coming December. 

 

I've walked off a Uniworld cruise with nothing on my onboard account.  

 

I know Viking does a lot of marketing and advertising, but they're not the only game in town.  I learned a lot by reading thru the stickies at the top of this forum.

[Bxianesq]

Thanks for all of the prompt replies.  I guess I will need to focus on a geographic area first, and then see who cruises that and what is offered. This is a bit different from traditional ocean cruising, where I tend to look at regions (although I typically have at least one port of interest in mind). 

 

I think paying up front might be a deal breaker for us.  I don't like the idea of having the cruise line hold onto our money.  I was annoyed that HAL kept the majority of our March 2020 cruise fare as a "future cruise credit" because we initiated the Covid concern cancellation (although the cruise was cancelled in its entirety 2 weeks later).  We are finally using that cruise credit this fall. 

 

I see that several of you mentioned Avalon. I will check into that. A couple also mentioned Tauck.  My parents used Tauck when they did non-cruise post-retirement travel. They absolutely loved Tauck.  We prefer to plan our own adventures and travel independently while on land (although that may change as we get older).  Therefore, I have not looked into doing group tours.  I was not aware that Tauck did river cruises. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

Tauck is absolutely top of the line, although with only a few ships their itineraries and dates are limited.  The other two in that category are Uniworld [look at the decor before deciding further] and Scenic.  Below that is AmaWaterways.  With Crystal out of the game, these are the top four.  Tauck and Scenic are all-inclusive.  Uniworld charges for more excursion choices than the others, and AMA doesn't include tips.  The other lines are less-inclusive, so their apparently lower prices don't always pan out.

 

As far as planning your own adventures: be aware that all the cruise lines that have been discussed include a full range of shore excursion options in the fare, and because river cruise schedules are subject to the whims of the lock masters and port masters you really can't go off doing your own thing like you can on ocean cruises.  That's why it's worth looking at the shore excursion options to make sure the cruise you book includes the options you want.

[*Miss G*]

1 hour ago, Bxianesq said:

I see that several of you mentioned Avalon.  I will check into that.

 

Their UK website leaves a lot to be desired but the AU site has a good description, with pics, of the Avalon Imagery II, which is the ship we will be on.  One of the biggest draws, for us, was the Panorama Suites.  

 

[Canal archive]

It’s interesting that now going onto a company’s other country site seems possible in the past trying to do that got you reset to your home country. Maybe it’s a tech thing but it meant making a true comparison was not easy.

[*Miss G*]

4 hours ago, Canal archive said:

It’s interesting that now going onto a company’s other country site seems possible in the past trying to do that got you reset to your home country. Maybe it’s a tech thing but it meant making a true comparison was not easy.

 

So true!  It used to annoy the heck out of me when the browsers forced you out.  Had to use a VPN to force my way back in.  They still try to “correct” you but at least we’re now allowed to respond that “we’re sure”.  😂

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, Canal archive said:

Maybe it’s a tech thing but it meant making a true comparison was not easy.

I am also glad that now they ask you if you want to stay or change to another website. It was so annoying before. With the new options I was able a few years ago to determine that the US and UK websites of Viking have different front pages and "small print", i.e. the differing terms and conditions necessitated by US laws and UK/EU laws. Unfortunately, Viking is again giving me pains with the default - they switch me to the US website again. CroisiEurope and others either ask or do not care.

 

notamermaid

 

[CastleCritic]

9 hours ago, Bxianesq said:

 

 

I think paying up front might be a deal breaker for us.  I don't like the idea of having the cruise line hold onto our money.  I was annoyed that HAL kept the majority of our March 2020 cruise fare as a "future cruise credit" because we initiated the Covid concern cancellation (although the cruise was cancelled in its entirety 2 weeks later).  We are finally using that cruise credit this fall. 

 

That is going to depends on the cruise line.  For Amawaterways you only need to pay $200 +insurance up front and the rest 90 days out.  Yes at that point it becomes non-refundable and becomes a credit under their cancellation clauses. (which Ive used to my advantage by paying it for a cruise I knew would cancel and then taking the 10% extra money when it happened).

 

As for destination, you might also look at general "theme" of the cruise.  Whether thats literal (do a wine cruise and have tastings onboard, presentations, perhaps altered excursions) or just the focus of the excursions I picked my name partially off the fact/joke that I literally picked my first cruise based on the number of castles in the itinerary.   

 

Dont rush it there are a lot of lines a lot of ships and a lot of itineraries to choose from.

[notamermaid]

18 minutes ago, CastleCritic said:

I picked my name partially off the fact/joke that I literally picked my first cruise based on the number of castles in the itinerary.   

That could have been me. My last trip away from home (long weekend) took me to three castle (hills). Castles and Palaces focus is definitely an option.

 

21 minutes ago, CastleCritic said:

Dont rush it there are a lot of lines a lot of ships and a lot of itineraries to choose from.

I have not mentioned this before, there are also the European lines. Just to mention (base country in brackets)*: Riviera Travel (UK), Viva Cruises (Germany), Amadeus (Germany/Austria), Arosa (Germany), CroisiEurope (France). Although for culinary and wine I would tend to think that only CroisiEurope could be a match for the North-American lines. Happy to be proven wrong. CroisiEurope is the main company that will give you access to a wider range of rivers and itineraries that North-American lines do not serve.

 

*not complete

 

notamermaid

 

[*Miss G*]

1 minute ago, notamermaid said:

I have not mentioned this before, there are also the European lines. Just to mention (base country in brackets)*: Riviera Travel (UK), Viva Cruises (Germany), Amadeus (Germany/Austria), Arosa (Germany), CroisiEurope (France). Although for culinary and wine I would tend to think that only CroisiEurope could be a match for the North-American lines. Happy to be proven wrong. CroisiEurope is the main company that will give you access to a wider range of rivers and itineraries that North-American lines do not serve.

 

*not complete

 

notamermaid

 

 

I have been researching Feenstra Rijn Lijn (Netherlands) as an add-on to our Avalon cruise.  It looks quite nice.

[gnome12]

21 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Although for culinary and wine I would tend to think that only CroisiEurope could be a match for the North-American lines. Happy to be proven wrong. CroisiEurope is the main company that will give you access to a wider range of rivers and itineraries that North-American lines do not serve.

The disadvantage of CroisiEurope for me (and it is a big disadvantage) is that there is no choice of main course at dinner; everyone gets the same. The only option is to discuss it the night before and hope that something you like might be available. With a choice of options on the other lines that I have travelled on, I have rarely had a problem choosing something.