Travel insurance question

[Rlp1457]

Hello -

I can’t seem to find an answer to this.  
We have a cruise planned next year.  It’s leaving out of Florida and going to Cozumel, grand cayman and Jamaica.  
My question:  is travel insurance a requirement?  I thought I read at one point that ships departing from certain states like Florida were requiring it…..as well as certain destinations like grand cayman.  I am not sure if any/all of that has changed.  Does anyone have any insight on this?

[Hlitner]

24 minutes ago, Rlp1457 said:

Hello -

I can’t seem to find an answer to this.  
We have a cruise planned next year.  It’s leaving out of Florida and going to Cozumel, grand cayman and Jamaica.  
My question:  is travel insurance a requirement?  I thought I read at one point that ships departing from certain states like Florida were requiring it…..as well as certain destinations like grand cayman.  I am not sure if any/all of that has changed.  Does anyone have any insight on this?

You do not mention the cruise line but as of now, the answer is no for those who live in the USA.  If you are cruising on MSC you should check their latest requirements since they had previously been requiring insurance for folks coming from outside the USA (I think they finally dropped the requirement).

 

That being said we would caution any cruiser to always check with their own cruise line, relatively close to their cruise date, to verify the current rules.  Since COVID, rules regarding vaccinations, testing, and insurance have been known to change with little notice.

 

Hank

[Rlp1457]

The cruise line is carnival.  I didn’t know it was a cruise line thing…..I was thinking more of a local government mandate thing.  But also knowing how regulations have loosened up, figured it was no longer a requoirement.

[Essiesmom]

Carnival does not require it, although it is always a good idea.  EM

[klfrodo]

A requirement? No

However, can you afford a major medical emergency on a cash based system?

Your Blue Cross Blue Shield may have an international rider but know that Cozumel General Hospital is NOT going to direct bill your insurance company and let you go home.

There are many stories recently where people had to start up fundme websites, just to pay the hospital bills to be discharged from the hospital.

 

Note: Travel Insurance doesn't solve this basic issue of paying upfront either. However, the right policy will refund you the money. At least the refund allows you to avoid bankruptcy

[lenquixote66]

5 hours ago, Rlp1457 said:

Hello -

I can’t seem to find an answer to this.  
We have a cruise planned next year.  It’s leaving out of Florida and going to Cozumel, grand cayman and Jamaica.  
My question:  is travel insurance a requirement?  I thought I read at one point that ships departing from certain states like Florida were requiring it…..as well as certain destinations like grand cayman.  I am not sure if any/all of that has changed.  Does anyone have any insight on this?

I never heard of mandatory cruise insurance

[Shmoo here]

3 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I never heard of mandatory cruise insurance

I believe it's required in the UK.

[GeezerCouple]

33 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

I believe it's required in the UK.

 

I've heard of it, perhaps for Antarctica trips?

 

And during the rougher COVID times, there were some countries that were requiring it, which would mean the cruise line would need to, also.  They may still do that, but we haven't been doing any serious traveling again yet... 😞 

 

GC

[lenquixote66]

2 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

I believe it's required in the UK.

I know nothing about the UK 

[sparks1093]

16 hours ago, klfrodo said:

A requirement? No

However, can you afford a major medical emergency on a cash based system?

Your Blue Cross Blue Shield may have an international rider but know that Cozumel General Hospital is NOT going to direct bill your insurance company and let you go home.

There are many stories recently where people had to start up fundme websites, just to pay the hospital bills to be discharged from the hospital.

 

Note: Travel Insurance doesn't solve this basic issue of paying upfront either. However, the right policy will refund you the money. At least the refund allows you to avoid bankruptcy

It's sometimes worse than needing the funds to be discharged, some hospitals require the money upfront just to provide treatment. There are some policies that will provide these funds upfront, but of course they cost a bit more. With insurance it is very important that you understand exactly what is covered and what is not.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It's sometimes worse than needing the funds to be discharged, some hospitals require the money upfront just to provide treatment. There are some policies that will provide these funds upfront, but of course they cost a bit more. With insurance it is very important that you understand exactly what is covered and what is not.

You got that right :).  We have tried to warn folks (mostly on the travel insurance blog) that, in nearly all cases, they will be required to pay their medical bills if they are treated outside their home country.  This can be a huge problem for folks that do not have credit cards with high limits.  Where we live (part of the year) in Mexico, it is not uncommon for hospitals to ask for a major credit card (which they hold) as soon as you enter the facility.  When DW has received medical treatment in Japan and Mexico, the last stop before we could leave the hospital was accounting where they rightfully demanded full payment.  (We later were reimbursed by our insurance, but this took many weeks after we worked our way through the claims process).

 

Even policies, such as GeoBlue, that have arrangements with some foreign providers do not guarantee a hospital or physician will accept "direct assignment."  Just last month, DW was treated at a decent private hospital in Cozumel.  That hospital would have accepted our insurance if one of us had been admitted as an inpatient.  But DW was treated as an outpatient, and they would not accept insurance for outpatient treatment (the bill was about  $1200 (US) so we had to pay the entire bill before leaving the hospital.  I should add that in Mexico, if you are taken to a decent private hospital and do not have the ability to pay, they may refuse to treat you and refer you to a public hospital (not nearly as nice).  Many other countries have similar situations where the best healthcare is in private facilities which demand full payment!  The alternative public system may not be nearly as good and also involve long waits (even if you are in dire circumstances).

 

Hank

[Joebucks]

So do international hospitals not accept international health insurance coverage but will take your $150 travel insurance plan and let you go on your way? That doesn't seem to add up.

[GeezerCouple]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

It's sometimes worse than needing the funds to be discharged, some hospitals require the money upfront just to provide treatment. There are some policies that will provide these funds upfront, but of course they cost a bit more. With insurance it is very important that you understand exactly what is covered and what is not.

 

This ^^ is very important, and often not understood, especially by those in the USA where it is conventional that if you show up at the ER, you *will* be seen and treated according to regular triage procedures.  They don't ask for proof of funds first (or immediately after treatment, such as before "allowing" you to leave).

 

As for travel insurance, we ALWAYS get that, even though our regular employer-based healthcare insurance supposedly includes that.  The ONE time we tried to submit a relatively small claim, it was when we had "secondary" travel insurance, so we were required to submit to regular insurer first - and the terms/conditions stated clearly that for emergency care, it was covered.  (There was zero question about the emergency part of it.)

They kept acknowledging receipt of our claim and copies of receipts, and then kept claiming they hadn't, or they "lost them".  Um, how many times can they lose these things!?

I finally turned to the employer's VP/Director of Human Resources, who was in charge of Benefits.  She had the SAME run-around!  Then they ran out our deadline to submit claims on our travel insurance, so I went semi-ballistic.  Our employer self-insures and I remain convinced that given the relatively small amount of the claim, the employer just paid it out of some slush fund somewhere.  VP stated that "They probably don't deal with many foreign claims and don't know how to handle them."  Huh!?  This is a large University, with much foreign travel!

Now all of our travel insurance is *primary"; no need to involve any other insurance, and it's always paid promptly!

 

Yes, there can be times a travel insurer will arrange to guarantee payment or even wire funds, IF that can be coordinated.  But *we* certainly would not want to "wait around" during a medical emergency, while we try to reach insurer, then insurer tries to make arrangements with medical provider, etc.  Nope.  We just whip out a charge card and get the emergency care started.  And *later* sort out those expenses.  (If it's an extended, expensive care situation, then there will be time for those payment arrangements to be made.  Meanwhile, we always travel with several charge cards, with very ample limits, for any immediate emergency needs.)

 

GC

 

[klfrodo]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

So do international hospitals not accept international health insurance coverage but will take your $150 travel insurance plan and let you go on your way? That doesn't seem to add up.

Not even close.

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

So do international hospitals not accept international health insurance coverage but will take your $150 travel insurance plan and let you go on your way? That doesn't seem to add up.

I think you have a very naive point of view when it comes to international travel.  We have seen it in some of your posts about tipping and now this.  Many of us have pointed out that there are no travel insurance plans that will reliably be accepted when out of your home country.   Many of the "rules" and practices that you accept as part of your everyday life, disappear as soon as you leave our borders.  This is true in terms of medical care and all things legal!  There are parts of the world where you can die, from lack of care, if you cannot pay a bill.  Other places will practically hold you hostage until you settle your bill.   The "rights" you take for granted may not exist in other countries.   And the nearest US Consulate might be hundreds of miles distant and not very helpful.

 

Hank

 

 

[sparks1093]

6 hours ago, Joebucks said:

So do international hospitals not accept international health insurance coverage but will take your $150 travel insurance plan and let you go on your way? That doesn't seem to add up.

They might accept the travel insurance if the company sends the money before treatment, otherwise the policy gets the traveler nothing.

[Mum2Mercury]

Random thoughts, in no particular order: 

 

- No, travel insurance is not mandatory, but I wouldn't sail without it. 

- The #1 thing against which you really want to be protected is Emergency Evacuation.  Transportation to a nearby hospital /then back home can cost thousands upon thousands upon thousands.  

- If you were to become sick or injured on an island, you'd almost certainly be better off returning to the ship for treatment.  

- Depending upon which travel insurance you choose, you may also be covered for travel delay (i.e., the airplane is late), for lost luggage, etc.  Definitely read your paperwork.  

[Mum2Mercury]

6 hours ago, Joebucks said:

So do international hospitals not accept international health insurance coverage but will take your $150 travel insurance plan and let you go on your way? That doesn't seem to add up.

I know what an international airport is, but what's an international hospital?  I think hospitals exist in other countries, and it's possible you'd go to one for treatment -- doesn't make them "international".  

[navybankerteacher]

7 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Random thoughts, in no particular order: 

 

- No, travel insurance is not mandatory, but I wouldn't sail without it. 

- The #1 thing against which you really want to be protected is Emergency Evacuation.  Transportation to a nearby hospital /then back home can cost thousands upon thousands upon thousands.  

- If you were to become sick or injured on an island, you'd almost certainly be better off returning to the ship for treatment.  

- Depending upon which travel insurance you choose, you may also be covered for travel delay (i.e., the airplane is late), for lost luggage, etc.  Definitely read your paperwork.  

While you might get better treatment on the ship than at some island hospital, there is a very good chance that the ship will put you ashore if you need anything much more than basic first aid. 
 

The sad fact is that a fair number of cruisers cannot afford to cruise responsibly.  Of course, if their luck holds out, they might not realize that they really cannot afford to cruise. Most people are lucky - some few , not so much.

[GeezerCouple]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I think you have a very naive point of view when it comes to international travel.  We have seen it in some of your posts about tipping and now this.  Many of us have pointed out that there are no travel insurance plans that will reliably be accepted when out of your home country.   Many of the "rules" and practices that you accept as part of your everyday life, disappear as soon as you leave our borders.  This is true in terms of medical care and all things legal!  There are parts of the world where you can die, from lack of care, if you cannot pay a bill.  Other places will practically hold you hostage until you settle your bill.   The "rights" you take for granted may not exist in other countries.   And the nearest US Consulate might be hundreds of miles distant and not very helpful.

 

Hank

 

 

Adding to what I already wrote above [and JoeBucks, please do read that if you haven't already], the legal rights are no small issue, should "problems" occur, as Hank mentions. 

 

If one is detained overseas, there may be NOTHING that the US government can do, regardless of how close the nearest US Consulate or Embassy might be.  NO "USA" laws need to apply in foreign countries and many don't.  And many of the international agreements of various sorts are only "good" to the extent that they are honored at the specific time/location that one needs them ... IF there are any that would apply in the first instance.

 

For example, some people here on CC seem a bit cavalier about medicines/"drugs" when crossing borders.  And just because "something went fine" on a previous visit... that doesn't guarantee the same will still be "fine" the next time.  The other country's laws/regs may have changed.  They may be inspecting more carefully.  Or maybe it's only that the particular inspector one encounters by chance... had a bad breakfast or an argument at home or such that morning... (Even if it is determined that there is no law that applies to you at that time, the process can take considerable time and effort.)

 

Some unpleasant travel experiences are truly unpredictable or are very difficult to avoid.  But some potential problems are indeed known/understood, and with often only a small amount of planning, can very likely be avoided, or at least mitigated considerably.

 

The need for emergency medical care is something that can NOT necessarily be "fixed later"... if the care was denied when critically needed...

Why risk it, if something fairly easy and inexpensive [a good charge card or two, with a reasonable limit for the purpose] would avoid a potentially catastrophic problem?

 

GC

 

[donaldsc]

I know that this story about a couple who traveled to Mexico w/o insurance but I can't find it.  Here is a link to another site - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhPwNYw7uX8.  Read it before you decide to travel w/o insurance.

 

DON

 

[sanger727]

On 11/10/2022 at 2:07 PM, lenquixote66 said:

I never heard of mandatory cruise insurance

outside of really specialty lines or exotic cruises, it’s not. But there are country specific requirements for insurance; which I believe is why the OP listed their posts instead if the cruise line. For example the Galapagos requires proof of coverage for entry. We also recently got a visa to Vietnam and they also required proof of coverage. I’m unaware of any caribbean island with this requirement. 

[Joebucks]

18 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I think you have a very naive point of view when it comes to international travel.  We have seen it in some of your posts about tipping and now this.  Many of us have pointed out that there are no travel insurance plans that will reliably be accepted when out of your home country.   Many of the "rules" and practices that you accept as part of your everyday life, disappear as soon as you leave our borders.  This is true in terms of medical care and all things legal!  There are parts of the world where you can die, from lack of care, if you cannot pay a bill.  Other places will practically hold you hostage until you settle your bill.   The "rights" you take for granted may not exist in other countries.   And the nearest US Consulate might be hundreds of miles distant and not very helpful.

 

Hank

 

I'm not sure what nerve I struck there. These threads usually imply (and klfrodo did as well) that you should get travel insurance for justifications such as "can you afford to pay for your care up front? Then you should have travel insurance." Travel insurance isn't going to send them an immediate bill and let you go on your way. I was legitimately asking a question in case there was such a plan.

 

I think the naïve view is the blind support for travel insurance without truly knowing the ins and outs. Maybe you know more about it. Most people who come in these threads, don't. People are led to buy it, thinking it is some big payout account for your slightest inconvenience. Whereas there are plenty of exclusions (pre-existing conditions, secondary coverage, COVID exclusions, etc). Where some people may want to compare other options such as annual plans, credit card coverages, etc. Perhaps they already have overlapping coverages and don't even know. People should also travel with a credit card with significant credit limit in case they need quick access to funds.

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I'm not sure what nerve I struck there. These threads usually imply (and klfrodo did as well) that you should get travel insurance for justifications such as "can you afford to pay for your care up front? Then you should have travel insurance." Travel insurance isn't going to send them an immediate bill and let you go on your way. I was legitimately asking a question in case there was such a plan.

 

I think the naïve view is the blind support for travel insurance without truly knowing the ins and outs. Maybe you know more about it. Most people who come in these threads, don't. People are led to buy it, thinking it is some big payout account for your slightest inconvenience. Whereas there are plenty of exclusions (pre-existing conditions, secondary coverage, COVID exclusions, etc). Where some people may want to compare other options such as annual plans, credit card coverages, etc. Perhaps they already have overlapping coverages and don't even know. People should also travel with a credit card with significant credit limit in case they need quick access to funds.

Over thirty years in the medical insurance (government) industry taught me something, which is it is such a complex industry that even insiders often scratch their heads trying to get it all straight.  Understanding the exclusions, pre-exisiting conditions, etc. is often just a matter of carefully reading an entire policy including all the "definitions."  That is time consuming, but doable for most folks.  But the issue of how it all works, when you actually need help is not something you will find in any policy.   But many folks fail to grasp that while decent insurance will eventually make you whole (to the extent of the policy) there can be a big lag (measured in months) between the time you need to pay the bills and you actually get a check from the insurance company.  A mistake made by many is to assume that medical will be covered just like it is at home or in one's home country.  In most cases that is not going to happen!

 

Folks should start out with the understanding that they will likely need to somehow cover their medical bills long before they will get reimbursed.  And this is a real problem for the bulk of crusiers/travelers that do not have high credit limit credit cards or money in accounts that can rapidly be transferred to pay bills.

 

One thing about the major credit card companies is that they can often be helpful if you confess your problem and ask for help.  If one's credit limit is not sufficient to cover a bill, call the credit card company, explain the situation, and request a temporary increase in your credit limit.  In many cases your request will be quickly granted.  If not, you can be put into a situation where you are contacting family and friends begging for immediate financial help!  

 

The situation is somewhat better with medical evacuation as that must be arranged, in advance, and will often be handled by the insurance company. 

 

Hank

[aungrl]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Over thirty years in the medical insurance (government) industry taught me something, which is it is such a complex industry that even insiders often scratch their heads trying to get it all straight.  Understanding the exclusions, pre-exisiting conditions, etc. is often just a matter of carefully reading an entire policy including all the "definitions."  That is time consuming, but doable for most folks.  But the issue of how it all works, when you actually need help is not something you will find in any policy.   But many folks fail to grasp that while decent insurance will eventually make you whole (to the extent of the policy) there can be a big lag (measured in months) between the time you need to pay the bills and you actually get a check from the insurance company.  A mistake made by many is to assume that medical will be covered just like it is at home or in one's home country.  In most cases that is not going to happen!

 

Folks should start out with the understanding that they will likely need to somehow cover their medical bills long before they will get reimbursed.  And this is a real problem for the bulk of crusiers/travelers that do not have high credit limit credit cards or money in accounts that can rapidly be transferred to pay bills.

 

One thing about the major credit card companies is that they can often be helpful if you confess your problem and ask for help.  If one's credit limit is not sufficient to cover a bill, call the credit card company, explain the situation, and request a temporary increase in your credit limit.  In many cases your request will be quickly granted.  If not, you can be put into a situation where you are contacting family and friends begging for immediate financial help!  

 

The situation is somewhat better with medical evacuation as that must be arranged, in advance, and will often be handled by the insurance company. 

 

Hank

Based on your experience across many years and many countries, what is a reasonable total credit limit you would recommend as being likely sufficient - I understand there are no guarantees, given whatever the actual circumstances end up being, but I'm very interested in your informed opinion.  TIA