Celebrity Retreat vs. Seabourn

[Mahogany]

Has anyone had experience cruising Celebrity's Retreat class on the Edge ships? How does it compare with the Seabourn experience?

[billichka]

I am curious about this as well.  The Retreat looks great and has good reviews but it would be better to hear from someone who has been on both Seabourn and Celebrity Retreat.

[LEESRE]

I have done both, must say that the OLD Seabourn was better than the Celebrity Retreat.

 

But now I am not so sure. The Restaurant for the Retreat was very good and we loved the Lounge area. Only thing they did not do and this is also Seabourn of late, it get meals served HOT.

[Vineyard View]

I am curious. When you left the retreat ‘bubble’ and you were part of the masses, it had to have felt entirely different, including every time you were embarking and disembarking in ports? I would worry about how that would affect my overall experience. We said never again on  large ship years back. 

[Mrs_Tiki]

17 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

I am curious. When you left the retreat ‘bubble’ and you were part of the masses, it had to have felt entirely different, including every time you were embarking and disembarking in ports? I would worry about how that would affect my overall experience. We said never again on  large ship years back. 

I am not able to do a direct comparison, as we have not yet sailed on Seabourn, but I can share our experience in the Retreat on X. We have sailed 4 times in the Retreat on 3 Edge-class ships, in everything from the base-level suite to a Royal Suite, which garners extra perks and attention.

 

Yes, when you leave the "bubble", you are definitely reminded that you are on a giant ship and all that goes with it. However, we really enjoyed the other areas of the ship but generally tried to visit when in port so that the crowds would be less.

 

Retreat guests do receive an expedited final disembarkation once the ship is cleared. We were able to relax in the Retreat Lounge until we were ready to depart, then requested an escort from one of the Retreat hosts. I am honestly not sure if the same could be done at one of the ports of call, as we had done those itineraries so often that we did not leave the ship.

[CalTexCruiser]

We are also curious about this.

 

We are booked next spring Singapore to Dubai on the Encore.

 

Usually book upper suites on Celebrity but the Seabourn itinerary filled a lot of our bucket list.

 

[Vineyard View]

Personally, I just think that while you are separate from the huge groups of passengers, it would seem to be impossible to avoid the crowds. I think it sounds like a great fit for those who want the ability to have the luxury and small crowds, yet also enjoy the action of thousands of people and the venues created for them. Not everyone enjoys a complete smaller ship environment. 
We do. We have no need for both worlds, but it’s awesome that the opportunity exists for those who enjoy that. 

[stan01]

First Class has been around on ships for centuries.  The Titanic had it, today it is Grills on Cunard or Retreat on Celebrity etc.  Call it what you want, refine it as you want.  I'm going to guess that the people who came up with Celebrity Retreat took some market research trips on Cunard Princess and Queens Grill cruises.  For example Retreat takes care of the tipping and alcohol which Cunard Grills do not.

 

Pro of Celebrity Retreat (or Cunard Grills):  you can go to the rest of the ship when you want big ship features such as for a large show, a magic carpet (?), more dining and bar choices, nightlife, or the ballroom dancing (Cunard).  If you want disco at 1 AM I would not recommend Seabourn, but some people will want to leave the cocoon to drink beer in a pub or dance to Drake at 1 AM.

 

Pro of Seabourn:  you can get most of the luxury food, service, and ambiance at the cost of the cheapest cabin on the ship.  We typically do not buy a larger suite on Seabourn (we feel there is no need) & instead stay on the ship longer in a lower priced regular balcony suite.  Also important for us is fewer kids with no specific kids features.

They are different experiences.  Try them both as see what you prefer.  You might like both at different times.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by stan01

[Mahogany]

Speaking of kids, my Seabourn travel mate read on Seabourn Facebook page that there was a fight because of kids in the pool on Encore. Anyone hear about this?

[saminina]

17 hours ago, Mrs_Tiki said:

IRetreat guests do receive an expedited final disembarkation once the ship is cleared. We were able to relax in the Retreat Lounge until we were ready to depart, then requested an escort from one of the Retreat hosts. I am honestly not sure if the same could be done at one of the ports of call, as we had done those itineraries so often that we did not leave the ship.

 

Life as it should be.

[Kilroyshere]

Retreat is very good. But it's not SB...

 

We're frequent SB cruisers. This past December/January we took a Retreat Holiday cruise.

 

Celebrity is going all out to attract younger, affluent cruisers who are likely to also be ultra luxury class small ship cruisers in their Retreat class.

 

Cuisine in Retreats Luminae dining is excellent and in our opinion on par with SB's MDR.  Luminae selections are more limited than SB. Custom menu requests were gladly and skillfully accommodated in Retreat as they are on SB. Luminae service was as good as SB's.

 

I enjoyed Celebrity's all inclusive wine selections much more than SB's. Just my opinion.

 

Retreat's private lounge has full-time concierge staff who went out of their way to help making  reservations, work out any issue with a cabin, service or amenity. Bar service in the Retreat lounge is excellent. The lounge was never crowded and offered small group entertainment live music selections, a magician and other presentations.

 

Retreat's concierge service begins long before cruising. They took phone calls to assist with bookings, questions and special requests with a dedicated and capable Retreat phone staff.

 

On the not so good side of Retreat service were lounge hors d'oevres, canapes, snacks...all were poor (think Oscar Meyer Lunchables cold cuts and orange generic cheese and crackers). Doesn't come close or compare with SB's offerings at Tea Service, pre-dinner lounge hors d'oevres and, caviar is M.I.A. on Celebrity without a special request and massive up-charge.

 

Buffets on SB have always been excellent in our opinion and are far superior to Celebrity which were mass market average.  

 

Retreat Embarkation/Disembarkation priorities for expedited luggage and reception were superior to SB. Once at the port, it was barely 10 minute in a separate Retreat dedicated check in area with no lines and we were escorted aboard and shown to our cabin which was ready to occupy before noon.

 

Once outside some wonderful reserved Retreat venues, the rest of Celebrity ships are mass market, mega ships trying trying to appeal to all levels, ages and price-point cruisers.

 

Outside of Retreat feels like HAL, Royal, or NCL with similar big ship service, crowds, lines, photo/art/jewelry/casino solicitations and noise.

 

SB doesn't offer children's amenities. Celebrity has programs and venues for children - if children on a cruise matter to you either way.

 

We've always found SB offering a more intimate, sophisticated and personal cruise. Over the years as SB ships grew and much of what we came to love has changed, not always for the better. Yet SB still offers us that 'small yacht' feel that Celebrity Retreat never will.

 

Price wise; the daily cost of a SB veranda suite might get you an upper level Retreat suite on Celebrity.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Kilroyshere

[Hlitner]

I do think one needs to consider "value."  Next week we will again be on Seabourn (for 32 days) at a cost per passenger day that is significantly less than we would pay to be in the Retreat on a simple X Caribbean cruise.  The pricing makes no sense but it is what it is.  Just looking (now) at a 10 day Beyond cruise (next February) a Magic Carpet Suite (one of the lower cost suites) is about $19,000 or $950 per person day. And that is just in the Caribbean.   Our Seabourn Suite is costing us less than $500 per person/day and that is for a fabulous itinerary including some interesting European ports, Iceland Greenland, etc..  That is just the facts. 

 

There are certainly other SB cruises that have different cost.  Anyone could book a 14 day Caribbean cruise on the SB Soujourn for about $11,000 a couple or about $400 per person/day.  That is less than half the price (per person day) of that Magic Carpet suite.  

 

Does that make sense in terms of value?  My goodness, on the Seabourn ship you are getting a space ratio that is about 50% more than on the Beyond (or any mass market ship). 

 

I know that the answer will be obvious when I am sitting in the Observation Bar with my glass of French Champagne and a double order of caviar!  And on that Seabourn ship we are talking about a maximum of 450 passengers being served by over 300 crew.

 

Some have drawn a comparison of having the highest price home in a neighborhood (i.e. Celebrity Retreat) vs being in a neighborhood where all the homes are high priced.  

 

At this point in time, we think the real bargains (in terms of value) are to be found on the luxury lines!  One major exception could be MSC's Yacht Club where you can still book a suite for about $400 per person day. 

 

Hank

P.S.  I guess we could also discuss the fact that many cruisers would prefer to be on a large mass market ship vs a small luxury vessel.  It is a completely different experience.

[Les Picantins]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:06 PM, Mahogany said:

Speaking of kids, my Seabourn travel mate read on Seabourn Facebook page that there was a fight because of kids in the pool on Encore. Anyone hear about this?

I wouldn’t call it a fight…it was a number of passengers in the pool animatedly expressing their disapproval towards a young mother trying to join in with a diapered baby

 

The problem was intelligently resolved by introducing a blow up baby pool 

Everyone seemed to be satisfied…well almost everyone 

 

There was one couple who complained that the sight of the baby pool disrupted their view. Said couple disrupted my view, but I kept that to myself 😉

[commodoredave]

When I sail with Celebrity, which is not very often, I choose AquaClass cabins rather than the Retreat. I have sailed in Princess Grill several times with Cunard, but only when it was offered for a healthy discounted sale price. I might try the Retreat if it was offered on a sale, but at normal prices it seems a poor value compared to suites on SB or Silversea.

[AmateurGO]

We did a 9 days cruise in the Retreat/Suite section of Celebrity Beyond about a year ago and did a 14 day Aegean Sea cruise on Seabourn Encore this April-May.  

I actually thought the Beyond provided a more luxurious feeling and a much more "personal touch" than the Encore.  Yes, the Beyond is big, but every suite has a "butler" assigned who helps you get quicker/easier access to restaurants, entertainment, off/on the ship, and anything you want for your cabin.  On about the second day, our butler asked what kind of wine we liked and two bottles quickly showed up in our cabin.  While our cabin attendants on the Encore were efficient, there was no feeling of such personal service. 

And the sommeliers...  We quickly established a rapport with the Beyond sommelier in the Luminae restaurant and he happily assisted us with making choices among the numerous wines available as part of the "package".  On the Encore, the main restaurant sommeliers only wanted to talk to us if we were going to purchase the "optional" wines, most of which were well over $100 per bottle.  (About 10 days into the cruise, an "assistant sommelier" in Colonnade finally got us a list of the included/available wines.)

My overall impression of the Encore is that about 90% of the crew thought much more highly of the ship and their services than we did.  And yes, that includes the food, even the Thomas Keller Grill.  I guess I just don't like "fish eggs" enough.

[frantic36]

2 hours ago, AmateurGO said:

And the sommeliers...  We quickly established a rapport with the Beyond sommelier in the Luminae restaurant and he happily assisted us with making choices among the numerous wines available as part of the "package".  On the Encore, the main restaurant sommeliers only wanted to talk to us if we were going to purchase the "optional" wines, most of which were well over $100 per bottle.  (About 10 days into the cruise, an "assistant sommelier" in Colonnade finally got us a list of the included/available wines.)

 

It was unfortunate it took so long for you to get an included wine list, did you ask at guest services as well?

 

I have no knowledge of Retreat/Suite on Celebrity so I looked it up and it appears there is a maximum of 100 guests so that would be the maximum in the Retreat main dining room at one time, is this correct? This compared to the Encore where the main dining room can have 3-4 times that amount as passenger capacity is 650. There is only 1 sommelier and x2 assistant Sommeliers and from my cruises I have found they are usually kept very busy with people who are purchasing revenue wine.

 

Asking your wait staff or staff pouring drinks what is available by giving them varietals you enjoy can be helpful and they have been more than happy to let me taste various choices to find something I like.

[AmateurGO]

I did not ask for an "included wine list" at Guest Services and, of course, it should not be necessary to do so.  The Sommelier's job should be to help you select a wine appropriate for your meal, no matter the price point.  One piece of information the sommelier should get, directly or via implication, is your desired price range: in this case the price range was "included" but as soon as I said that, we were essentially ignored.  This happened twice in the Main Restaurant, so I gave up.  Another issue I had (but haven't mentioned) is that whenever possible, the staff pushed Alamos wine (Malbec and Cab).  I really feel this is below the standard of a "ultra-luxury" ship.  Alamos is a $7 - $8 (retail) wine, not something that should be the "house wine" on the Encore.  The servers were a bit surprised when I declined it.

The Retreat/Suite section of the Beyond had to include about 400 - 500 passengers/guests (perhaps you were looking at one of the smaller ships).  I would say that the Luminae restaurant on the Beyond was almost as big as the Main Restaurant on the Encore and it had at least three knowledgeable sommeliers/wine stewards.

[Mr Luxury]

I count myself lucky that I don't usually sail on a ship that has a different class system whereby the more you pay for a suite,the more you get included.

I find Seabourn and Silversea suit me.

I don't have any problem with getting the wine that i want as I always buy from the revenue list to avoid any disappointment.

Life is too short to drink cheap wine anyway.

I find that the head Sommelier seeks me out and we have many conversations about wine that he might recommend and wine that I might recommend to him.

There is always a solution to avoiding these small issues on a cruise ship.

Will be on board Encore next week then off to Pursuit to try her out.

What's not to like.

[highplanesdrifters]

1 hour ago, Mr Luxury said:

Life is too short to drink cheap wine anyway.

Especially now.

 

Would love to know if you find any favorites on Encore.

[Mr Luxury]

30 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

Especially now.

 

Would love to know if you find any favorites on Encore.

I will let you know

[stan01]

Probably just a matter of time until the finance types at Carnival push Seabourn into a ship within a ship concept (assuming they don't go entirely to expedition).

 

We are casual small ship fans so the five discarded Seabourn ships still operating at Seadream and Windstar will meet our needs for awhile longer even if they don't meet Carnvial's needs.

[markham]

Not sure that the “ship within a ship” wedge can work on a <600 person ship (and note that Ody class ships are 450 to boot). That model is a margin grab for the mass market large ships that are trying to have it all by pretending they can duplicate the ambiance of Seabourn. Mass market is just that, no matter how you shine up its top decks with “perks”.

 

Another point: what is this “discarded” ships from Seabourn nonsense? The 3 original sisters were sold off some years ago to Windstar but that is the end of the original Seabourn brand story.

 

If you do have some information about Seabourn’s product strategy eg new ships I would like to hear it.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[cruiseej]

8 hours ago, Mr Luxury said:

I always buy from the revenue list… I find that the head Sommelier seeks me out and we have many conversations about wine that he might recommend and wine that I might recommend to him.

 

Well I think that's what the Sommeliers are primarily there for: customers who will pay for "revenue wine". 

 

9 hours ago, AmateurGO said:

One piece of information the sommelier should get, directly or via implication, is your desired price range: in this case the price range was "included" but as soon as I said that, we were essentially ignored.  This happened twice in the Main Restaurant, so I gave up.

 

I don't believe the Sommeliers are actually there to serve all customers; they're there to primarily focus on the people who will pay for the premium wines. That's not to say that, under the right circumstances (e.g. not too busy), they won't talk with you or help you if you're sticking with the included wines — but I think it becomes your waiter's responsibility rather than the Sommelier's to fetch included wines, including when you ask for an alternative to the nightly featured wine. 

 

9 hours ago, AmateurGO said:

Alamos is a $7 - $8 (retail) wine, not something that should be the "house wine" on the Encore.

 

I think this is one of the biggest failings of Seabourn at the moment: very inexpensive and mediocre- to low-quality included wines. On our recent Sojourn cruse with 6 couples, some new to Seabourn and some returning guests, the quality of the wine was probably the biggest gripe from everyone. We all wished Seabourn would add $10 or $20/day to the cruise fare and put that money towards upgrading the included wines. Of course, one can't expect $100 bottles of wine to be included, but a $20 wine instead of an $8 wine would make a huge difference. 

[AmateurGO]

Two comments...   First about the role of the sommelier:  you description of being there primarily to assist the patrons purchasing the "optional wines" may be the case on Seabourn (and possibly other lines) but I don't think that is the case for sommeliers in general.  They are there to assist all patrons, no matter what price range.  Yes, someone purchasing a $200 bottle might get more attention than someone purchasing a $50 bottle, but the latter would not be ignored/shunned.  We have been on multiple other cruises (lines) with included wines and I have never been treated like we were on the Encore.  I got the impression that the sommelier was being paid/judged by how much additional revenue they brought in rather than by customer satisfaction.

Second: The frustrating thing is that, once we did get the "included wines" list, there were some decent wines on that list: much better than the Alamos wines they seemed to be pushing.  I suspect(!) that Seabourn got a great deal on a shipment of Alamos wines and, when people did not select it by choice, the servers were told to "encourage" it.  If so, the error was on the part of the purchasing person who "bought" the wine, but the servers will be the ones who take the blame for not pushing more of it.

Also, when we did get the list, not all included wines were on the list: for example, we had a nice Zinn several times and it was not on the list.

[cruiseej]

15 minutes ago, AmateurGO said:

First about the role of the sommelier:  you description of being there primarily to assist the patrons purchasing the "optional wines" may be the case on Seabourn (and possibly other lines) but I don't think that is the case for sommeliers in general.

 

Yes, I was describing what I and other have described on Seabourn. Of course, in a traditional restaurant, all wines are "revenue wines", so a sommelier can service everyone. 🤣

 

As for the included wine list, I think they are reluctant to produce/share it at times because the inventory changes over time. A wine which is featured one night might be finished by the end of that night. A wine that they have only a few bottles of may not make a list because they know it's almost out. 

 

I think the wines they have in larger quantities, and may "push", vary from ship to ship and cruise to cruise. On our Sojourn cruise at starting the end of May, there were a lot of South African wines featured/pushed. Why? Probably because Sojourn had come from South Africa a few weeks earlier, and likely took on a large shipment of wine there. I'd bet that now, six weeks later, there are different wines being featured on that ship.