Changes to Princess Plus, room service fees, Alfredo's and others. Fee changes. Etc

[sunviking90]

15 minutes ago, Jeter02 said:

Oh. You know if I come think of it,I don't think think I recall the card on my most recent cruise a few short weeks ago.. hmm. Thanks for the fun fact. 

We had them on the Crown in July but steward never replenished without us asking (3times). He was a bit of a dud so we that that was why.

The press release does say breakfast ordered with hanging tags is still NC, so they can’t be getting rid of them. Maybe they are in the process of changing them up. 

[SCX22]

The other option to all of this "nickel and diming" would be to build these charges into the cruise fare.  I think that would alienate more Princess loyalists because as has been stated before Princess cruisers are price sensitive.  You'd see prices more along the lines of Oceania or Viking.  

 

When Princess starts charging to eat a regular meal at the MDR or buffet, then we all have something to grumble about.

[PrincessLuver]

23 minutes ago, ldtr said:

So lets see.  Lets say that the cruise lines all changed their business model.

 

Your base fare would go up by the amount of tips.  That means that unlike today where tips are paid after the cruise, unless you select to pay them in advance, you will now have to pay the amount 90 days before the cruise starts.  Because the fare goes up, your insurance costs also goes up since it is based up the new fare.  So if all else is neutral  your costs as a passenger have increased over the current system, the amount of money at risk is increased, and the amount of funds you have to pay earlier has increased.  Not exactly a good deal for passengers.

 

Of course that would not be the end of it.  There are also advantages to the crew and the cruiseline under the current system.

 

To the cruise line whose accounting systems are run in accordance with US accounting standards (listed on US exchanges) the money received for tips is processed outside of the companies books.  Any money they receive as gratuities is not counted as revenue and the money they pay to the crew is not counted as an expense.  As long as certain rules are met.  One of which is that all monies received must be distributed to the crew that are part of the gratuity pool. Another is that the gratuitiy must be optional (can be removed).  That makes it pretty certain that the money is in fact going to the crew.  While if the system changed and the money flow remained exactly the same with fares going up $16 per person per day and salaries going up the same amount now being classified as revenue and expense, it would not impact corporate income taxes, but it would impact net margin in a negative way.

 

Then comes the crew depending upon their countries of residence gratuities are often taxed differently with gratuities often getting better tax treatment.

 

To put it simply moving gratuities into the fares would be a negative for passengers, the cruise line and the crew.  Even though it would prevent some from removing the gratuity amount.

 

No one really knows what happens to the gratuities passengers automatically pay.  

[govanguy]

1 hour ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

I booked 2024 and 2025 with Oceania onboard in March so I haven't paid attention to this.  I'd still suggest looking at their pricing.  The newly upgraded cabins on the Marina were stunning.  I had a balcony B3 category on deck 7.  #7119   The balcony was huge and it had 2 thickly padded loungers as well as a table and 2 chairs.  The room also had a lovely comfy couch.  Their basic balcony was waaaaayyy nicer than a princess mini suite.  And because of the included dining it is even nicer than the Club Class (Reserve Class) minis.  I think Riviera has been upgraded now too?  And of course the new Vista will be shiny and new.  

We were on Riviera in March 2023 for 23 days. Loved it. It had been refurbished to a high standard.

I`ll be back onboard in November . Fortunately, we booked before the Olife removal and the subsequent price increases

[Thrak]

4 minutes ago, sunviking90 said:

We had them on the Crown in July but steward never replenished without us asking (3times). He was a bit of a dud so we that that was why.

The press release does say breakfast ordered with hanging tags is still NC, so they can’t be getting rid of them. Maybe they are in the process of changing them up. 

 

Of course the webinar kept mentioning ordering room service "on the phone". I can't imagine using such a clunky method when it's so simple to do on the TV. One gets the feeling that these PR folks don't really cruise on Princess ships.

[JGmf]

3 minutes ago, CynCyn said:

may not be a popular opinion, but they had to do something to slow down the room service orders.  I waited 1.5 hours one night and was order #1200.  They can’t hire enough crew, or build a kitchen large enough, to handle that number of orders .

 

Agree.  The notion that a significant number of passengers would be simultaneously ordering stuff from their medallion app -- and they could keep up -- was doomed for failure from the start. 

 

(In a sad way, it kind of reminds me of the movie "Wall-E", where people just sit in their chairs and consume food and drink rather than actually walk to the bar or food place themselves...)

 

[Thrak]

Another example of the Marketing folks promising stuff that brought the actual staff to their knees.

[Senga]

This is exactly why we switched from Celebrity after 28 cruises; they were making too much of a difference in their "class" of passenger.  When we first cruised with them inside cabin passengers were treated the same as suite passengers.  We have a cruise booked for September and another for June 2024.  We don't drink alcohol and have determined we are far better paying for soft drinks/fresh squeezed o.j. as we go.  We never use room service or order food delivery on the app so no issues there.  We always enjoyed one or two trips to Alfredo's but truly love Slice so, again, no big deal but definitely a disappointment.  We'll make a decision on the 2024 cruise after this upcoming one since we don't like the direction Princess is headed.

[Jeter02]

1 minute ago, Thrak said:

 One gets the feeling that these PR folks don't really cruise on Princess ships.

Yeeesss! Completely thought of this the whole time while I was listening! It's like when the educational departments and school boards make executive decisions, that are unrealistic. People who have zero experience in the classroom , telling you how to run a classroom. Same difference as this. Hahaha

[Guest ldtr]

5 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

No one really knows what happens to the gratuities passengers automatically pay.  

Actually it is pretty clear under US financial reporting law.  If the funds are not fully distributed to the crew then it would have to be reported under the quarterly financial reporting.  The amount of such tips is large enough that it would be considered to be material and there for part of the 10k and 10Q filings.  Such information would be noticeable.

 

That fact that it is not, as well as the fact that gratuities remain optional (can be removed) makes it pretty clear that accouting rules are being followed.  After all if they were not, then there would be no reason leaving them as optional.

[Jeter02]

3 minutes ago, JGmf said:

 

Agree.  The notion that a significant number of passengers would be simultaneously ordering stuff from their medallion app -- and they could keep up -- was doomed for failure from the start. 

 

(In a sad way, it kind of reminds me of the movie "Wall-E", where people just sit in their chairs and consume food and drink rather than actually walk to the bar or food place themselves...)

 

I tested the ocean now feature in the beginning when it first came out a few times. Never again have I used it, as my orders either showed up 2 hrs later, or better yet never showed up or constantly be randomly cancelled. When I'm on vacation, yes I'm lazy, but I'm not that lazy to get what I need personally. The extra steps are good. 

[LMaxwell]

3 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Actually it is pretty clear under US financial reporting law.  If the funds are not fully distributed to the crew then it would have to be reported under the quarterly financial reporting.  The amount of such tips is large enough that it would be considered to be material and there for part of the 10k and 10Q filings.  Such information would be noticeable.

 

That fact that it is not, as well as the fact that gratuities remain optional (can be removed) makes it pretty clear that accouting rules are being followed.  After all if they were not, then there would be no reason leaving them as optional.

It's fully distributed to a pool.  Who is in it and what percentage they get, is between the company and its employees.  Much like I have employees that have to hit certain metrics to get full commission; they can go over, or they can get less. But the pool is fully funded. 

[Steelers36]

4 minutes ago, Jeter02 said:

I tested the ocean now feature in the beginning when it first came out a few times. Never again have I used it, as my orders either showed up 2 hrs later, or better yet never showed up or constantly be randomly cancelled. When I'm on vacation, yes I'm lazy, but I'm not that lazy to get what I need personally. The extra steps are good. 

I never used it either - except way back in the beginning when you could get your first drink for free via the App.  Anyway, if I paid the $15 and got consistent terrible service, I'd be talking to GS about a refund or rebate.

 

ETA:  Perhaps with the fee, there will be less usage of the service.  It all boils down to number of guests on Standard vs the packages.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Steelers36

[LMaxwell]

I will just say that as someone who tends to book "Standard" balcony cabins and no add on drink or perk package anywhere, it is very off-putting to see venues that were included, to some degree, now turned into pay for venues. It diminishes the value of the cruise. It takes a real brand loyalist, of any brand, to pay $5000 for a vacation and being told "this pizza is not for you....$15 only....or go up to the pool" unless they opt to pay $120 a day more for alcohol drinks. 

 

But it's actually insulting that all they are doing is repackaging current offerings into less value for standard and plus fare and saying that things are now "free". I knew as soon as I saw the headline, it was likely not to be the case. 

 

If all the fast casual places end up going to a pay/a la carte model, the cruise is no longer an alternative to a Las Vegas or land based resort. No differentiator. At least on land I am not captive audience to the place I am staying at all week. 

 

On a recent cruise, different line, they had their casual sit down Mexican restaurant right off the atrium, no real theming, something like $18 per person all you can eat, no atmosphere, and never busy when we saw it, but on YouTube reviewers go nuts. Think they just love new content. But for a family to drop 72+ tip for a taco dinner and give up the MDR is a little ridiculous.  That's the type of restaurant that should be included; and it's the level of dining Princess thinks is worth $15pp or a la carte, and they think giving some of this for "free" is an enhancement to a perk package? 

Edited July 27, 2023 by LMaxwell

[likeadisguise]

51 minutes ago, ldtr said:

To the cruise line whose accounting systems are run in accordance with US accounting standards (listed on US exchanges) the money received for tips is processed outside of the companies books.  Any money they receive as gratuities is not counted as revenue and the money they pay to the crew is not counted as an expense.  As long as certain rules are met.  One of which is that all monies received must be distributed to the crew that are part of the gratuity pool. Another is that the gratuitiy must be optional (can be removed).  That makes it pretty certain that the money is in fact going to the crew.  While if the system changed and the money flow remained exactly the same with fares going up $16 per person per day and salaries going up the same amount now being classified as revenue and expense, it would not impact corporate income taxes, but it would impact net margin in a negative way.

 

Then comes the crew depending upon their countries of residence gratuities are often taxed differently with gratuities often getting better tax treatment.

 

To put it simply moving gratuities into the fares would be a negative for passengers, the cruise line and the crew.  Even though it would prevent some from removing the gratuity amount.

 

Crew members also must pay a percentage of their salary to the manning company in their country that recruited them for the job. They only pay based on their guaranteed wages, so gratuities are not included. They would end up taking home less money if crew appreciation fees were eliminated and their salaries raised. 

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

So basically you found a way to short the crew of what is a major part of their compensation.

 

If you do not like the fees, it is pretty simple do not buy the product and do not cruise on the cruise line.

The gratuities go to corporate to be dispersed fleet wide as compensation and bonuses. They don't stay with any particular ship staff according to Princess. I choose to believe Princess 

 

 

[rideev]

4 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

. Sure, the people who buy packages will be happy, but those who can’t drink alcohol or don’t drink enough to warrant the package are the ones who will be negatively affected. 

Those are the folks that will end up paying for everyone else.

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

So basically you found a way to short the crew of what is a major part of their compensation.

 

If you do not like the fees, it is pretty simple do not buy the product and do not cruise on the cruise line.

The gratuities go to corporate to be dispersed fleet wide as compensation and bonuses. They don't stay with any particular ship staff according to Princess. I choose to believe Princess (ie: Princess pockets it to supplement negotiated wages)

 

[Jeter02]

Unfortunately these awesome crew members onboard, took a pay cut when cruising restarted after the pandemic. Till this day, they still aren't making what did prior to COVID. I do get upset when they raise gratitude charges, but have yet to increase the salaries of these incredibly hardworking people who truly go above and beyond. These Wonderful human beings continue to work at their terribly cut wages, as they need to send money home to keep not just them, but their families afloat.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Jeter02

[roxievegas]

1 hour ago, sunviking90 said:

I wouldn’t pay the $15 for app activation. I don’t need anything delivered to me. It has always seemed easier to go up and get what I want. We have used RS occasionally, but mostly for breakfast so that won’t change. I guess I just proved I’m not the type of passenger Princess wants, lol.

My husband and I are not the type Princess wants either.  We started out as Celebrity cruisers, made it to Elite with them and then started with Princess.  Now that our next cruise will make us Elite, guess we will be looking around.  I am a bargain hunter, live on a budget, and cheap - I am really disappointed with this change in policy.

[startedwithamouse]

2 hours ago, Camelia- said:

I'm not sure what ship you were sailing on but a couple of months ago on the Majestic..it was ALWAYS empty and we could just walk right in! I was wondering if they were even going to keep it open because of this!

Discovery  always packed.

[Guest ldtr]

22 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

It's fully distributed to a pool.  Who is in it and what percentage they get, is between the company and its employees.  Much like I have employees that have to hit certain metrics to get full commission; they can go over, or they can get less. But the pool is fully funded. 

Sure  it does go into a pool.  But the pool must be fully distributed to employees that are eligible for the pool.

Exactly how the pool is allocated is not made public and accounting standards does not require it to be.  Only that the pool is fully distributed to employees.

 

Princess went to the pool across the fleet a number of years ago when there was a problem with a disparity in tip amount between different ship locations.  For example routes out of the UK had lower totals than cruises out of home ports in the US.  This made crew members assigned to certain ships/routes less happy than others.  As a result for this reason and others they went to a fleet wide system, removing the variance between itineraries.

[Gwendy]

Love how the announcement says NEW complimentary room service in the packages.  Duh, it was always complimentary.  One of the reasons as a solo cruiser I chose Princess.

As a non alcoholic drinker, a package doesn’t really make sense, 

[whitecap]

9 minutes ago, Ombud said:

The gratuities go to corporate to be dispersed fleet wide as compensation and bonuses. They don't stay with any particular ship staff according to Princess. I choose to believe Princess 

 

 

If that is the case, my 14 days worth of gratuities, $448, might not be seen by my room steward, head waiter or anyone else on my ship.  Handing my room steward an envelope seems more advantageous to him or her than paying into a "fleet wide pool".  

[Guest ldtr]

9 minutes ago, Jeter02 said:

Unfortunately these awesome crew members onboard, took a pay cut when cruising restarted after the pandemic. Till this day, they still aren't making what did prior to COVID. I do get upset when they raise gratitude charges, but have yet to increase the salaries of these incredibly hardworking people who truly go above and beyond. These Wonderful human beings continue to work at their terribly cut wages, as they need to send money home to keep not just them, but their families afloat.

Keep in mind that most of them do better under the current system then they would under a fully contracted salaries amount at the same level as the current system.