Gratuities [eeeek]

[pcur]

12 hours ago, sgmn said:

I personally think gratuities should be rolled up in the basic fare, at least outside USA home ports.

 

I think this is coming.  Passengers might also be deleting tips because the price of cruises are going up so much.

 

To me, the price of the cruise already includes the tips when I make my decision about booking.  I always add the tips automatically (in my head).  Some times I pay all the tips, sometimes an obc pays them, sometimes it's a mix.

[firefly333]

6 minutes ago, pcur said:

 

I think this is coming.  Passengers might also be deleting tips because the price of cruises are going up so much.

 

To me, the price of the cruise already includes the tips when I make my decision about booking.  I always add the tips automatically (in my head).  Some times I pay all the tips, sometimes an obc pays them, sometimes it's a mix.

I dont think it's coming. Carnival tried some rates with pre paid tips .. discontinued. 

 

Celebrity is removing tips from included.

 

They want to advertise as low as possible. Adding in tips, when most newbies dont even know about them, doesnt seem to be the direction I'm seeing. 

[Ret MP]

I don't understand the mentality of wanting to eliminate gratuities, not just cruising either.  I'm not saying that that mentality is right or wrong, just I don't understand it.  

 

As an entry-level employee, many years ago, I worked hard, much harder than some/many others for my money, while others were complaining about not getting enough.  Those of us who were okay with our gratuities (we were never satisfied and shouldn't be) would look around and see who was complaining.  It was those that were doing just the bare minimum.  As a Corporate officer for a Hospitality/Customer Service entity, I also saw who the complainers were.  It wasn't hard to let those who did the very minimum or less, go.  And, I would not want to make as much as the guy/gal next to me who didn't earn it.  I don't think anyone can deny that that is what happens when gratuities are part of the admission/service/whatever, everybody gets the same.  

 

Mary works hard, she goes the extra mile, exceeds everyone's expectations, is never late, and offers to work late if needed.  John complains about every little task assigned.  John does just enough or less to get by.  At the end of the week, they both get their paycheck and both are the same amount.  Where is the incentive for Mary to work hard? Where is the incentive for John to improve?  

[not-enough-cruising]

35 minutes ago, pcur said:

 

I think this is coming.  Passengers might also be deleting tips because the price of cruises are going up so much.

 

To me, the price of the cruise already includes the tips when I make my decision about booking.  I always add the tips automatically (in my head).  Some times I pay all the tips, sometimes an obc pays them, sometimes it's a mix.

No way is this coming; unless the government mandates it (and they won’t)

[ReneeFLL]

8 hours ago, nelblu said:

I tip the porter at check-in time due to my concern that my bags will not make it to our cabin.  Mind you these guys make a hell of a livable wage.

I quit tipping them and they have been making it to our cabin every time. At Port Everglades there was a sign that said tipping wasn’t necessary. It disappeared. Was supposed to be put back up, I’ll have to check in November.

[ReneeFLL]

4 hours ago, Vibe said:

If you are going to remove the automatic gratuities and stiff the crew, remember to hide your tooth brush, it could be mistakenly used to clean the toilet.

🙄

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, sgmn said:

It's changed from all included to choice of basic fare or all included . As I don't drink enough to warrant a drink package and in Europe don't need WiFi I don't really want a fully inclusive (much more expensive) fare.

Same here. Thanks for confirming. 

[scooby1]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

I don't understand the mentality of wanting to eliminate gratuities, not just cruising either.  I'm not saying that that mentality is right or wrong, just I don't understand it.  

 

As an entry-level employee, many years ago, I worked hard, much harder than some/many others for my money, while others were complaining about not getting enough.  Those of us who were okay with our gratuities (we were never satisfied and shouldn't be) would look around and see who was complaining.  It was those that were doing just the bare minimum.  As a Corporate officer for a Hospitality/Customer Service entity, I also saw who the complainers were.  It wasn't hard to let those who did the very minimum or less, go.  And, I would not want to make as much as the guy/gal next to me who didn't earn it.  I don't think anyone can deny that that is what happens when gratuities are part of the admission/service/whatever, everybody gets the same.  

 

Mary works hard, she goes the extra mile, exceeds everyone's expectations, is never late, and offers to work late if needed.  John complains about every little task assigned.  John does just enough or less to get by.  At the end of the week, they both get their paycheck and both are the same amount.  Where is the incentive for Mary to work hard? Where is the incentive for John to improve?  

The problem is that in many other countries we do add a tip if and only if the service deserves it to the point you make above. The issue with the gratuities as RCL and others have them is that they are there regardless of what the service is or its quality. So in your example they both get more regardless of how hard they work or how attentive they are etc..
 

So I ask my room attendant to do something and they don’t do it or leave things scruffy - they get the tip anyway with RCL. 
I ask the waiter to change something and they forget, take an age to offer rolls or to sort drinks every night - they get the tip anyway. Or it’s only altered a little depending on what score I give, and we all know the can I have a 9 or 10 only please…!
 

Tipping for good service we all see ok, add a charge as it it was a tip isn’t. Also we in the UK often if it’s added on by default don’t like challenging it or asking for it to be removed. We would literally rather give it to them but never go to the place again and begrudge the gratuity being added as a default. 
 

Yes is partly a culture thing mainly US is radically different to many other places in tipping being a default position, it’s just not the case in many other countries. 

[yogimax]

4 minutes ago, scooby1 said:

Yes is partly a culture thing mainly US is radically different to many other places in tipping being a default position, it’s just not the case in many other countries. 

All that may be true but RCCL is operating based on the U.S. experience not the British,Italian or Japanese.

[scooby1]

3 minutes ago, yogimax said:

All that may be true but RCCL is operating based on the U.S. experience not the British,Italian or Japanese.

Agreed, nobody is denying that are they, merely commenting how the behaviour and reaction to the model they follow differs by country/region. 
 

Not challenging things just explaining how different places see things differently. These threads get closed quickly because people don’t agree with either view point. I’m just trying to explain why the two views are so diametrically opposed to each other. 

[Mikamarii]

1 minute ago, yogimax said:

All that may be true but RCCL is operating based on the U.S. experience not the British,Italian or Japanese.

Yet we see on here constantly from our overseas friends how they don't have the tipping culture in their country yet Americans still do it because that is 'what they know'. Americans like to say when in our country do as we do....but don't take that same advice when they leave their own borders.

[Mikamarii]

Anyone who thinks that rolling gratuities in to the fare will change anything is fooling themselves.

 

In our province we used to have the separate wages for tipped positions. A few years back they got rid of it and minimum wage is minimum wage. It's 15$hr here. So the person working at a restaurant makes the same as the person working at Macdonalds yet the restaurant worker makes triple in tips for essentially doing the same job. Tipping will not change because wages increase. It is too engrained in people to flash their money around and buy loyalty. 

 

Every 'all inclusive' in Mexico advertises 'gratuities included'. Yet everywhere you look in the resort you will see tipping jars stuffed with American bills. Tipping is not going anywhere. I got my windshield fixed the other day and was a tip option on it with min 20%. It is getting crazy out there.

[steveru621]

16 hours ago, zimmerman said:

I know this is well trodden ground and highly emotive… I recall this particular gem popped up a few weeks back; someone commented on the fact there were huge queues at guest services and guests were getting their gratuities refunded. This was contested.

 

We’re just off a cruise.

one of the waiters (in a speciality restaurant) we were talking to told us that on the previous week’s cruise, 25% of customers had cancelled their gratuities.

 

he could obviously have been laying some foundation for our sympathies or trying to illicit some generosity from us. Who knows.

 

Was a European cruise sailing out of Italy (so maybe there could be some assertions made about cultural norms).

 

the other thing he told us, he claimed that some staff don’t get ANY salary. Their salaries are wholly dependent on the gratuity pool. So if 25% of guests retract them; their ‘salaries’ are effectively reduced by 25% for that week. I found this a bit alarming. Not sure, I always assumed they got something? Maybe the ‘room and food’ is the something?

Total BS

[Giantfan13]

Question on tipping or canceling the tips.

 

Say we do decide to cancel the required tips and prefer to do it on our own. Do we HAVE to tip whomever we want in cash? Can we tell Guest Services that we would like to tip X waiter a certain amount and that be added to our ship's account? and the same for whomever else we want to tip?  Just asking as if we had to tip in cash, that means a lot of cash being brought onboard.

 

Cheers

Len

[Ret MP]

2 hours ago, scooby1 said:

The problem is that in many other countries we do add a tip if and only if the service deserves it to the point you make above. The issue with the gratuities as RCL and others have them is that they are there regardless of what the service is or its quality. So in your example they both get more regardless of how hard they work or how attentive they are etc..

 

Not necessarily, the gratuities other than the 18% added to the tab for drinks and restaurants are totally voluntary.  You don't have to prepay for them and if they take them out on a daily basis, you can go to customer service and have them removed.  If you don't like the service at you get for drinks and/or restaurant service, complain about the individual(s) that provided less than acceptable service.  if many people complain about any one or a group of individuals, they loose their position or even their job.  Or do as you stated below.
 

So I ask my room attendant to do something and they don’t do it or leave things scruffy - they get the tip anyway with RCL. 

 

Not if you remove the tip.

 

Tipping for good service we all see ok, add a charge as it it was a tip isn’t. Also we in the UK often if it’s added on by default don’t like challenging it or asking for it to be removed. We would literally rather give it to them but never go to the place again and begrudge the gratuity being added as a default. 

 

Nothing stops your from doing the same here or on a venue on the ship.
 

Yes is partly a culture thing mainly US is radically different to many other places in tipping being a default position, it’s just not the case in many other countries. 

I understand that and I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise.  It's your system, keep it if you want it.  But, my opinion is that your system promotes mediocrity.

 

[Mapleleafforever]

4 hours ago, pcur said:

 

I think this is coming.  Passengers might also be deleting tips because the price of cruises are going up so much.

 

To me, the price of the cruise already includes the tips when I make my decision about booking.  I always add the tips automatically (in my head).  Some times I pay all the tips, sometimes an obc pays them, sometimes it's a mix.

I believe it is coming eventually as well. A well known Royal blog put up a video on youtube recently about what Royal needs to change (suggestions) and including gratuities in the advertised fare was one of them. Foreshadowing and conditioning perhaps. 

 

I would love to know the actual percentage of people removing the gratuities lately. My wager would be that it is going up. 

 

[time4u2go]

4 hours ago, scooby1 said:

The problem is that in many other countries we do add a tip if and only if the service deserves it to the point you make above. The issue with the gratuities as RCL and others have them is that they are there regardless of what the service is or its quality. So in your example they both get more regardless of how hard they work or how attentive they are etc..
 

So I ask my room attendant to do something and they don’t do it or leave things scruffy - they get the tip anyway with RCL. 
I ask the waiter to change something and they forget, take an age to offer rolls or to sort drinks every night - they get the tip anyway. Or it’s only altered a little depending on what score I give, and we all know the can I have a 9 or 10 only please…!
 

Tipping for good service we all see ok, add a charge as it it was a tip isn’t. Also we in the UK often if it’s added on by default don’t like challenging it or asking for it to be removed. We would literally rather give it to them but never go to the place again and begrudge the gratuity being added as a default. 
 

Yes is partly a culture thing mainly US is radically different to many other places in tipping being a default position, it’s just not the case in many other countries. 

Well stated. 

[scooby1]

8 hours ago, Ret MP said:

 

From looking at the comments it's like you haven't read what I have actually said so I will leave it there.  

 

But as an insight - 15 years ago I was on a cruise around Asia in Hong Kong at the time, the person in front of me was trying to take the pictures of the buildings and lasers with the flash on. I explained how it wouldn't work and changed their settings and they took another photo and it was fantastic. The person was from the US, he instantly tried to give me some money as a tip for me helping him. I was genuinely staggered. I'm just a person helping someone I would never ever expect any money to help someone, but they were shocked that I didn't want to take the money. So I can see how ingrained the issue is. 

[firefly333]

9 hours ago, Giantfan13 said:

Question on tipping or canceling the tips.

 

Say we do decide to cancel the required tips and prefer to do it on our own. Do we HAVE to tip whomever we want in cash? Can we tell Guest Services that we would like to tip X waiter a certain amount and that be added to our ship's account? and the same for whomever else we want to tip?  Just asking as if we had to tip in cash, that means a lot of cash being brought onboard.

 

Cheers

Len

There is no way they can do what you want nor will they. They do not want to encourage people removing tips. This will never happen.  If you choose to stand in line and remove tips sometimes they will ask why. Was the service not good. Be aware your cabin steward and others will know you removed tips. Though some will argue, they do seem to know. I know it's a lot for a family. So follow your conscious. ..I would not post it in public if you do remove them (imo this is better kept to yourself) tbh as it just will start arguments.

 

I'm solo so easy for me. I own 100 shares of stock so that's most of the tip right there. Add in some obc from my TA and I put aside enough obc to cover most of my auto tip and just tip in cash for the extras. .. but I'm not a family. So it's not fair for me to judge .. doesnt really come out of my pocket. 

 

Many leave tips in place and tip extra for extra service. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

There is no way they can do what you want nor will they. They do not want to encourage people removing tips. This will never happen.  If you choose to stand in line and remove tips sometimes they will ask why. Was the service not good. Be aware your cabin steward and others will know you removed tips. Though some will argue, they do seem to know. I know it's a lot for a family. So follow your conscious. ..I would not post it in public if you do remove them (imo this is better kept to yourself) tbh as it just will start arguments.

 

I'm solo so easy for me. I own 100 shares of stock so that's most of the tip right there. Add in some obc from my TA and I put aside enough obc to cover most of my auto tip and just tip in cash for the extras. .. but I'm not a family. So it's not fair for me to judge .. doesnt really come out of my pocket. 

 

Many leave tips in place and tip extra for extra service. 

I have NEVER been asked why I was removing the tips. 
 

Why would I care if my room steward knows? If they do their job well they will make more money on my room than they would had I left the auto debit in place. 

[Billy Baltic]

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Be aware your cabin steward and others will know you removed tips. Though some will argue, they do seem to know.

I’m curious what your basis for this is? 

[Donsyb]

14 hours ago, yogimax said:

All that may be true but RCCL is operating based on the U.S. experience not the British,Italian or Japanese.

Yes but when they’re operating in other markets, the passengers will be a higher mix of non US passengers and therefore will adopt whatever the tipping custom in their country is (as per the OP - this was a European cruise where tips were removed). So the fact they’re a US line is

irrelevant in those markets.

[Billy Baltic]

50 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I have NEVER been asked why I was removing the tips. 
 

Why would I care if my room steward knows? If they do their job well they will make more money on my room than they would had I left the auto debit in place. 

Someone will probably say because they’ll clean the toilet with your toothbrush. Seems to be like blackmail. Tip them or they’ll ruin your stuff. Tip the porters or they’ll throw your luggage away 🤷‍♂️

[Jetdriver787]

I am resigned to the fact that a portion of every dollar/pound/euro I spend, pays the Captains wages, the Chief Engineers wages, the fat cats in Miami’s wages and every other cost to the business. Why should the lowest paid workers be any different? I think it’s also right that an individual can be rewarded by way of a “thank you” in the form of monetary gratuities where that is appropriate. However, let’s be honest about this. It is fundamentally a “tax” borne out of  corporate greed, whereby those lowly paid employees are subject to an 18% (or whatever,) “withholding tax” that allows their employer to both use a “carrot & stick” form of performance enhancement, and at the same time pretend they are offering a cheaper product. 

[not-enough-cruising]

16 minutes ago, Billy Baltic said:

Someone will probably say because they’ll clean the toilet with your toothbrush. Seems to be like blackmail. Tip them or they’ll ruin your stuff. Tip the porters or they’ll throw your luggage away 🤷‍♂️

Yeah, I’m not concerned