Gratuities [eeeek]

[zimmerman]

I know this is well trodden ground and highly emotive… I recall this particular gem popped up a few weeks back; someone commented on the fact there were huge queues at guest services and guests were getting their gratuities refunded. This was contested.

 

We’re just off a cruise.

one of the waiters (in a speciality restaurant) we were talking to told us that on the previous week’s cruise, 25% of customers had cancelled their gratuities.

 

he could obviously have been laying some foundation for our sympathies or trying to illicit some generosity from us. Who knows.

 

Was a European cruise sailing out of Italy (so maybe there could be some assertions made about cultural norms).

 

the other thing he told us, he claimed that some staff don’t get ANY salary. Their salaries are wholly dependent on the gratuity pool. So if 25% of guests retract them; their ‘salaries’ are effectively reduced by 25% for that week. I found this a bit alarming. Not sure, I always assumed they got something? Maybe the ‘room and food’ is the something?

[little britain]

As I understand it:

the gratuity staff are guaranteed a salary - say $1000pm of which a % is paid by tips.

If they don’t get the tips than RCI will top up the salary to ensure they hit the minimum of $1000.

However, if there are several months where they don’t get tipped and have to be topped up; then the likelihood of their contracts being renewed decreases. 
 

Of course if everyone does pay their tips then their monthly salary far exceeds $1000 which is the upside. 
 

It was always said that the staff didn’t want the contracts on the UK based ships because of the reluctance to pay the tips. 
 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by little britain

[sgmn]

37 minutes ago, little britain said:

 

It was always said that the staff didn’t want the contracts on the UK based ships because of the reluctance to pay the tips. 
 

 

Which is mainly because Europeans don't understand the American based tipping culture on board ship.  I know people say 'when in Rome etc', but when it's their first cruise and it's a ship sailing ex UK or Europe the whole American tipping culture is not of interest or importance to them. 

My lovely neighbour on her first cruise two weeks ago  ex Ravenna told me they took off the tips and tipped at end of cruise to those they had contact with and thought deserved a tip.

A young friend who is at university in Holland tells me it's common for Europeans to just tip a few euros in restaurants even if the bill for a group is over €100.

 

I personally think gratuities should be rolled up in the basic fare, at least outside USA home ports.

Edited September 4, 2023 by sgmn

[scooby1]

Tipping is a culture thing, in the UK and many parts of the EU it's not the norm in fact for some it's rare. Tip for great service / food absolutely but all the time, definitely not. 

 

if you look at P&O as a rival to RCL who work out of the UK there are zero gratuities, absolutely none. You pay the fare and that's it, no expectation for more and nothing is charged as such either, it's even something they state on the website as a pro to booking with them. 

 

If RCL isn't paying enough money to the crew that is an issue with them, the expectation within the EU is staff are payed the correct amount and the gratuities / tip is a bonus and should absolutely not need to be relied upon to pay wages. In fact in the UK there is a minimum wage that must NOT include bonus / gratuities / tips in the calculation. 

[hammo]

In Australia , if you purchase in Australia , gratuities are included in the fare - always , its mandatory .

Any extra is at the discretion of the cruiser and generally for service above and beyond the norm . Thats the way of things here . Our Service industry staff are paid an agreed salary , permanent or casual , and tips are extra and that provides a certainty of a liveable wage here if you work and encouragement to provide an excellent  service that may be rewarded with extra . Same as in many countries , the USA is certainly different , and as such Cruiselines should certainly include a liveable wage for all staff and not rely on us being forced to pay for the service indirectly .

[Pandamonia]

Whats funny is that Celebrity is supposed to be Royals upmarket brand and yet inside Europe Celebrity are always including drinks, wifi and tips in the cruise fare and yet Royals ships get nothing included any more. 

 

In fact i have never seen inclusive grats on any EU Royal sailing personally and yet they get huge numbers refunded every cruise. 

 

Makes me wonder what they are thinking most of the time as there seems to be very little logic. 

 

[Billy Baltic]

And so it starts again. This is a topic that will never get agreement or for that matter, much fact based discussion. It’s a cultural oddity. 

[bjlaac]

We learned a lesson on our very first cruise which happened to be on Holland America.  This was late 70's early 80's for a reference.  At that time Holland America advertised with the slogan to the effect of "no tipping policy", your cruise fare was all inclusive.  Being a novice at the time, we did not tip any of the waiters or stewards on that cruise and when we disembarked, could not find our luggage.

 

After 30 minutes or so, a long shoreman helped us find our luggage which was tucked in a corner with all of the identiying tags "missing".  Naively we asked what happened and he responded did you remeber to tip the stewards and waitors?  After replying its a no tipping cruiseline, he looked at us as if we each had teo heads.  Now we never really knew for sure what happened but from then on we always tipped accordingly.

 

I bring it up because while the idea that rolling up gratuities into the fare makes sense on some level, it does not always result in the desired objective.  Like Holland America learned back then, the staff eventually "forgets" they are automatically being tipped and eventually expects more.  Holland America eventually had to abandon that no tipping policy.

 

I suspect if the lines did in fact roll that up in the fare we would be back to the crew expecting more.  Just think of your last raise, great feeling for all of one week before you are looking for the next one.  It"s the same with the crew and it doesn't help the cruise line constantly bombard you with tipping "extra" for good service througjout the voyage.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but perhaps its somewhere inbetween. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by bjlaac

[nelblu]

6 minutes ago, bjlaac said:

After 30 minutes or so, a long shoreman helped us find our luggage which was tucked in a corner with all of the identiying tags "missing".  Naively we asked what happened and he responded did you remeber to tip the stewards and waitors?  After replying its a no tipping cruiseline, he looked at us as if we each had teo heads.  Now we never really knew for sure what happened but from then on we always tipped accordingly.

I tip the porter at check-in time due to my concern that my bags will not make it to our cabin.  Mind you these guys make a hell of a livable wage.

[smokeybandit]

I think that waiter was selling you up a river to try to get more tips.

[time4u2go]

2 hours ago, Pandamonia said:

Whats funny is that Celebrity is supposed to be Royals upmarket brand and yet inside Europe Celebrity are always including drinks, wifi and tips in the cruise fare and yet Royals ships get nothing included any more. 

Is this something new?  I was on a European Celebrity cruise last year, and drinks, wifi, and tips were most definitely NOT included in the fare.  Or perhaps you mean for residents of Europe (which I am not).

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by time4u2go

[BND]

7 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Is this something new?  I was on a European Celebrity cruise last year, and drinks, wifi, and tips were most definitely NOT included in the fare.  Or perhaps you mean for residents of Europe (which I am not).

 

X typically includes drink pkg, grats and internet, but that is changing some.  X also costs more than Royal.   We were on Summit a few years ago and had all three included (classic drink pkg, not their top one).  We had another cruise booked on Summit last year but cancelled to go on Royal with friends instead and it included all three also.   It's just part of their marketing.

[Tlbecker1]

33 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Is this something new?  I was on a European Celebrity cruise last year, and drinks, wifi, and tips were most definitely NOT included in the fare.  Or perhaps you mean for residents of Europe (which I am not).

 

We have been on Celebrity twice in the last 6 months.  When we booked the cruises everything was included, but the one that we have booked for November does not.  You can add it, but it is no longer included in the fare.

[little britain]

X have in the last week changed their always included deal ( Wi-Fi/drinks/tips) and now the gratuities are Not included….

[not-enough-cruising]

7 hours ago, zimmerman said:

I know this is well trodden ground and highly emotive… I recall this particular gem popped up a few weeks back; someone commented on the fact there were huge queues at guest services and guests were getting their gratuities refunded. This was contested.

 

We’re just off a cruise.

one of the waiters (in a speciality restaurant) we were talking to told us that on the previous week’s cruise, 25% of customers had cancelled their gratuities.

 

he could obviously have been laying some foundation for our sympathies or trying to illicit some generosity from us. Who knows.

 

Was a European cruise sailing out of Italy (so maybe there could be some assertions made about cultural norms).

 

the other thing he told us, he claimed that some staff don’t get ANY salary. Their salaries are wholly dependent on the gratuity pool. So if 25% of guests retract them; their ‘salaries’ are effectively reduced by 25% for that week. I found this a bit alarming. Not sure, I always assumed they got something? Maybe the ‘room and food’ is the something?

You were lied to. 

[ShillyShally]

2 hours ago, nelblu said:

I tip the porter at check-in time due to my concern that my bags will not make it to our cabin.  Mind you these guys make a hell of a livable wage.

Ha, same. I consider it part of my cruise fare and  I consider it a preventative measure. Sure it may make no difference, but so far, no issues, so I’ll keep on keeping on!

[not-enough-cruising]

Just now, ShillyShally said:

Ha, same. I consider it part of my cruise fare and  I consider it a preventative measure. Sure it may make no difference, but so far, no issues, so I’ll keep on keeping on!

We never tip porters, and have never lost a piece of luggage; come to the dark side. 

[not-enough-cruising]

5 hours ago, hammo said:

In Australia , if you purchase in Australia , gratuities are included in the fare - always , its mandatory .

Any extra is at the discretion of the cruiser and generally for service above and beyond the norm . Thats the way of things here . Our Service industry staff are paid an agreed salary , permanent or casual , and tips are extra and that provides a certainty of a liveable wage here if you work and encouragement to provide an excellent  service that may be rewarded with extra . Same as in many countries , the USA is certainly different , and as such Cruiselines should certainly include a liveable wage for all staff and not rely on us being forced to pay for the service indirectly .

Cruise lines provide a fairly comfortable “living wage” to the crew. Most crew make 1.5-2X the average annual wage in their perspective countries on a 9 month contract.  

In order to better understand this system, one must stop looking at this onboard staff “economic environment” through the lens of a North American or Western European. 

[nelblu]

2 minutes ago, ShillyShally said:

Ha, same. I consider it part of my cruise fare and  I consider it a preventative measure. Sure it may make no difference, but so far, no issues, so I’ll keep on keeping on!

Compared to the cost of the entire cruise a few bucks per bag provides me with some sense of security.  Call it insurance.

 

There was a thread a few months ago, that compared the porters at Miami Port to the Mafia.  Very interesting comments.😄

 

 

[ShillyShally]

4 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We never tip porters, and have never lost a piece of luggage; come to the dark side. 

Ha, my life events have shown me not to tempt fate on some things! Its cheaper now that it’s usually just DH and I cruising and we have fewer bags than when the kids would come along! And we pack lighter, but it’s a $5 I won’t miss!

[not-enough-cruising]

5 hours ago, scooby1 said:

Tipping is a culture thing, in the UK and many parts of the EU it's not the norm in fact for some it's rare. Tip for great service / food absolutely but all the time, definitely not. 

 

if you look at P&O as a rival to RCL who work out of the UK there are zero gratuities, absolutely none. You pay the fare and that's it, no expectation for more and nothing is charged as such either, it's even something they state on the website as a pro to booking with them. 

 

If RCL isn't paying enough money to the crew that is an issue with them, the expectation within the EU is staff are payed the correct amount and the gratuities / tip is a bonus and should absolutely not need to be relied upon to pay wages. In fact in the UK there is a minimum wage that must NOT include bonus / gratuities / tips in the calculation. 

The minimum wage that P&O pays is EXACTLY the same as the minimum wage for the same position that Royal pays. 
The difference is P&O gets the money upfront to cover these costs, whereas Royal tries to guilt their customers into subsidizing this amount AFTER advertising a competitive low fare in their perspective market. 

[ShillyShally]

2 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Compared to the cost of the entire cruise a few bucks per bag provides me with some sense of security.  Call it insurance.

 

There was a thread a few months ago, that compared the porters at Miami Port to the Mafia.  Very interesting comments.😄

 

 

Yep, I also hate that sort of confrontation and want to start my cruise on a positive note, that tip usually turns everyone into smiles, far easier than feeling awkward as they stand there staring me down for one.

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Compared to the cost of the entire cruise a few bucks per bag provides me with some sense of security.  Call it insurance.

 

There was a thread a few months ago, that compared the porters at Miami Port to the Mafia.  Very interesting comments.😄

 

 

Mafia is a fairly accurate comparison. 

[Ret MP]

5 hours ago, hammo said:

In Australia , if you purchase in Australia , gratuities are included in the fare - always , its mandatory .

Any extra is at the discretion of the cruiser and generally for service above and beyond the norm . Thats the way of things here . Our Service industry staff are paid an agreed salary , permanent or casual , and tips are extra and that provides a certainty of a liveable wage here if you work and encouragement to provide an excellent  service that may be rewarded with extra . Same as in many countries , the USA is certainly different , and as such Cruiselines should certainly include a liveable wage for all staff and not rely on us being forced to pay for the service indirectly .

                                         AMERICAN-BASED SHIPS

 

Other than the 18% gratuity added to the bar/restaurant tab, there is NO mandatory gratuity with U.S.-based cruising.  RCCL, et al, will allow you to prepay the gratuity of whatever the daily gratuity amount is, or you can decline to prepay and have it taken daily while on the ship.  However, the daily gratuity charge on the ship can be canceled or credited back to your account if you don't want to pay it.  The current $16.00 or $18.50 pp/pd is not mandatory, period.  It's just automatically added to your account daily if you don't prepay and it can be reduced or entirely credited back to your account, if requested.  

 

It is my opinion that the system is a good and acceptable one as I do believe in my signature below, I overtip a lot.  I did not know that there are some folks who work 100% for tips on a ship.  But, I also like that it has the potential to weed out the paycheck collectors <if you know what I mean.  People who work for tips should be motivated, hard-working, and caring people.  If they aren't, they need to find other means of collecting a paycheck.  I also keep in mind that no one who works on an American-based ship has had a gun put up against their head and told to work and/or stay working on a ship.  On the other hand, the cruise line is not obligated, morally or legally, to keep someone employed who is a substandard worker.  

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Ret MP

[loman]

I like to start off my cruise by approaching the porter and handing him a fiver and say can you hold this for me . 

Then i hand him my neatly folded tags for him to staple to my two bags and we are all smiling .