Question about gratuities...

[PacnGoNow]

12 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Were you able to gain any insight on how the pool is distributed?  Is it mainly bonuses and incentives?  I believe you are saying that guest-facing crew that serve us are now on a fixed salary that supposedly has at least some CA baked in so that they get more than their old base.  But I gather you are also saying they do not get even a minimum amount from the tip pool (which consists of CA + 18% bars + other included grats in Casual and Specialty Dining tabs?

 

I would have presumed they are get some basic gratuity amount from the pool, but top performers are also getting bonuses. 

 

As someone who books Standard, it gives one pause to not affect crew income and then handout that amount (plus more) to specific individuals.  I would still be thinking I am hurting others beyond those we regularly interact with.  For us, it is three people - steward and our two waiters - as we don't frequent the bars.  I thought I was happy with the system in place, but you have blown up the concept somewhat.

I agree.  I wonder about all those behind the scenes?  Would that affect their tips?  Or, not make a difference?
If this is true, then the people on the Standard fare, would be giving  their waiters/stewards etc a huge boost of income, if you’re using the tip money for them.

Our current sailings of 47 days would amount to $1504 in CA.

 

Is this PCL’s way to ease into a AI cruiseline?  Bake it into the fare or package?

 

[PacnGoNow]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:40 AM, HaveDogWillTravel said:

I think enough people will keep buying the Plus or Premium packages with the non removable gratuities baked in that it just won’t matter. I even buy the Premium package on a short 5 day sailing. I am getting ready to board a 34 day sailing LA to Buenos Aires where the ability to restock wine in ports will not be possible. I can pretty easily lug a case on with me solo. Since I can’t seem to figure out a way to bring on enough wine (2 cases & starting the trip solo where DH joins the second leg) to last that long I will probably buy the plus package for at least one leg.   I did buy the sailing as 2 separate legs so I can purchase Plus for one leg separate of the other. 
 

As my good friend @CruiseRaiderhas surmised more than once, the price of the Plus and Premier packages will most likely increase. When you look at other cruise lines Princess packages are much cheaper so I tend to agree that the price will go up. 
 

This year I took a 10 sailing on Oceania and an 8 day sailing on Windstar. We booked an aft balcony on Oceania and a French balcony on windstar. Both were about the size of a Princess mini suite but the living room furniture and bathrooms were much nicer. They cost about the same as a Princess Vista suite. The food on both lines was simply outstanding. And all cabin levels eat the exact same food. I like that. All filtered water, fresh juices, specialty coffees, cans of soda are all included in base fare. Both lines didn’t blink an eye when boarding or at ports if we had any kind of alcohol at all we wanted to bring. Windstar in particular had exceptional quality wines and liquors including Antiqua Vermouth.  Windstar had my favorite Alsatian white wine at a great price.  
 

We will always sail Princess as they really do Alaska so well. I also like the ease of driving to the port and taking a last minute sail with friends. But we have 2 more Windstar and 2 more Oceania sails booked as well as 3 more Princess cruises. I’m really glad Princess made the changes they did (that I don’t like) as it made me take a look at other lines. And boy I am so very happy with what I found!  

When do you pull the tips, 1st day or at the end?  At the end, you may have credit…then do they mail a check to you?

Don’t they ask why at GS?  What do you say?  TIA

Edited November 5, 2023 by PacnGoNow

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

I agree.  I wonder about all those behind the scenes?  Would that affect their tips?  Or, not make a difference?
If this is true, then the people on the Standard fare, would be giving  their waiters/stewards etc a huge boost of income, if you’re using the tip money for them.

Our current sailings of 47 days would amount to $1504 in CA.

 

Is this PCL’s way to ease into a AI cruiseline?  Bake it into the fare or package?

 

I treat it as part of the cruise fare cost.  I am not sure I would do the best job in distribution, so will likely just pay it and tip extra as I see fit.

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

25 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

I treat it as part of the cruise fare cost.  I am not sure I would do the best job in distribution, so will likely just pay it and tip extra as I see fit.

Agreed.  If everyone reduces or eliminates auto gratuities as some suggest, the supposedly "fixed" salaries for crew would have to be lowered due to the decreased pool available at some point.  We choose to leave the auto gratuities oN, and tip individuals extra as warranted.  

Edited November 5, 2023 by AnyMajorCruiseDude
Additional info

[PacnGoNow]

6 hours ago, antsp said:

Working on the info from the crew members, you are best removing the tip and give it to your wait staff and steward, the will receive the exact same wage, plus the tip of the passenger 

When do you remove it?  Beginning or the end of the cruise?  

[40yearcruiser]

Thanks for the Australian tip information. I find it interesting that if we pay onboard the crew appreciation will be converted to the AUD equivalent of the US amount, but the onboard credit is not converted from US to AUD equivalent. For example, we will have $600 in OBC which on a ship using US currency is worth the full $600 but in AUD, at the present exchange rate quoted in OANDA, is equivalent to less than US $400 since there is no conversion. Since we will be on the ship 13-days the gratuities will be $416 US for the two of us, so when converted to AUD at today's rate will be $639, more than our $600 OBC. I have never paid gratuities in advance unless part of a promotion so will see how it all works out. It isn't that we can't afford the additional cost, we wouldn't be traveling to the other side of the world if we couldn't, but it's just the feeling that we are being ripped off by Princess (or Carnival Corp) by not applying the conversion both ways.

 

Just a heads up for non-Aussies, the above is only an issue if you are both embarking and debarking in Australian ports. If either the embark or debark is not in Australia the ship currency will be US. We have done both an arrival into Australia from an outside port and a departure from Australia to a foreign port on Princess ships and didn't have this issue. 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

12 hours ago, dog said:

Thanks for this post. I have also been told by my friend whose DIL is crew that you are right.

Thanks for giving another data point supporting what I’ve confirmed to my satisfaction.  

[HaveDogWillTravel]

21 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

So, if you pulled your tips and now tip individuals, how do you know how much to give the waiter, steward, bar hostess, etc?

What about the laundry employees, RS?  Just seems confusing.  TIA

Those at the back of house are salaried and their wages are fixed regardless of the “tip pool”, which isn’t really a tip pool, it is just income to Princess who then pays the salaries. So nothing you do affects their wages at all. 
 

I was given much more information about size of salaries for various positions and those ambiguous “bonuses”. I am not comfortable sharing more than what is now reasonably confirmed even beyond my experience regarding the “tip pool”. 
 

I actually like that teams have volunteered to pool their cash tips at certain venues (I always ask though so I can tip accordingly). I always bring thank you cards and put total for the team (say Crooners) in it and give it to my “lead” bartender at the end of the sailing.  If the Club Class dining room staff or Sabatini staff pool their tips I give the envelope to the head waiters. If not, then I’m one busy girl writing individual thank yous. 
 

How much? To who?  Just depends on what I did that  particular cruise. You don’t have to know “how much” as crew are not expecting this. They know that passengers have been misled to believe crew receive extra tips from a pool. Crew have signed contracts where they have agreed to this fixed wage and one has to believe that if this were not an acceptable wage to them they would look elsewhere. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by HaveDogWillTravel

[HaveDogWillTravel]

6 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

When do you pull the tips, 1st day or at the end?  At the end, you may have credit…then do they mail a check to you?

Don’t they ask why at GS?  What do you say?  TIA

This is very new to me and so my experience is limited to date. I really did wait until I had enough corroborating evidence from many reliable sources before going this route. But in my limited experience I just called GS (I think it was mid cruise but I don’t think that matters). I asked what would be the procedure if I wanted to remove or reduce my CA. She was quite nice about it and said I just had to tell her. And said I could remove all or part and I could adjust again at any time. So I asked her to please remove the charges already posted and to discontinue future charges. 
 

I think if I were asked why I would simply say Is that a requirement that I tell you why?  I certainly don’t want to get crew in trouble for talking about their compensation openly with me. 

[Cruise till you drop]

6 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

When do you pull the tips, 1st day or at the end?  At the end, you may have credit…then do they mail a check to you?

Why would you pull tips ?

[PacnGoNow]

2 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Why would you pull tips ?

I haven’t.  Just trying to understand the thread and how others have done this.  Not sure if we will change.  But a very interesting thread.

[PacnGoNow]

9 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

This is very new to me and so my experience is limited to date. I really did wait until I had enough corroborating evidence from many reliable sources before going this route. But in my limited experience I just called GS (I think it was mid cruise but I don’t think that matters). I asked what would be the procedure if I wanted to remove or reduce my CA. She was quite nice about it and said I just had to tell her. And said I could remove all or part and I could adjust again at any time. So I asked her to please remove the charges already posted and to discontinue future charges. 
 

I think if I were asked why I would simply say Is that a requirement that I tell you why?  I certainly don’t want to get crew in trouble for talking about their compensation openly with me. 

Thank you so much for the explanation.  This is very interesting and I do appreciate your honesty and explanations.

 

In the past, the crew knew if you removed the tips, just wondered if they still are advised? 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by PacnGoNow

[HaveDogWillTravel]

7 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

Our current sailings of 47 days would amount to $1504 in CA.

As I take more and more longer cruises I have thought about how crew get tipped on 7 day vs 14 day vs 34 day and so on sailings. If I normally give (for the sake of argument only) a waiter $40 at the end of 7 days then I should give that prorated amount on X days (greater than 7) sailing. So effectively this isn’t a “huge” increase it’s just a normal weekly amount.  
 

Specifically to your 47 days it’s $224 a week to distribute, for me that’s a pretty easy task. And I’m thinking on this next 34 day sailing to tip weekly when I believe I will interact with different crew as time goes on (for example I’m changing MDRs half way thru). 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

2 minutes ago, PacnGoNow said:

Thank you so much for the explanation.  This is very interesting and I do appreciate your honesty and explanations.

 

In the past, the crew knew if you removed the tips, just wondered if they still are advised? 

 

I was told No by multiple levels of crew. But not an officer just to be clear. 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

10 minutes ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Why would you pull tips ?

I’m not trying to be rude but if you read through the thread that question will be answered. 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

4 hours ago, AnyMajorCruiseDude said:

Agreed.  If everyone reduces or eliminates auto gratuities as some suggest, the supposedly "fixed" salaries for crew would have to be lowered due to the decreased pool available at some point.  We choose to leave the auto gratuities oN, and tip individuals extra as warranted.  

Hi there😀I don’t want to speculate on what % of passengers buy fares with CA built in that are not removable. I think it’s reasonable to surmise that the accountants at Princess have done the math and would not base an entire wage system on the unpredictable standard fare cruisers who can remove tips. It would seem prudent to base salaries on what the historical income from the packages has been. 
 

However, once a contract is signed salaries can not just be lowered.  Princess could reduce future contracts but they have to compete with other cruise lines for the same employees so there is that bit keeping things even. 
 

I think we’ve all noticed that Princess is trying to make the Plus and Premier packages more and more appealing by adding things that costs them little to nothing.  I personally (and seriously just my opinion) don’t think the group of standard fare passengers who will remove tips and give the $ directly to crew is large enough to move the needle at all on the financial spread sheet. Lots of people will do as you and that’s just fine. 
 

 

But who knows?  

[jwattle]

37 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Those at the back of house are salaried and their wages are fixed regardless of the “tip pool”, which isn’t really a tip pool, it is just income to Princess who then pays the salaries. So nothing you do affects their wages at all. 
 

I was given much more information about size of salaries for various positions and those ambiguous “bonuses”. I am not comfortable sharing more than what is now reasonably confirmed even beyond my experience regarding the “tip pool”. 
 

I actually like that teams have volunteered to pool their cash tips at certain venues (I always ask though so I can tip accordingly). I always bring thank you cards and put total for the team (say Crooners) in it and give it to my “lead” bartender at the end of the sailing.  If the Club Class dining room staff or Sabatini staff pool their tips I give the envelope to the head waiters. If not, then I’m one busy girl writing individual thank yous. 
 

How much? To who?  Just depends on what I did that  particular cruise. You don’t have to know “how much” as crew are not expecting this. They know that passengers have been misled to believe crew receive extra tips from a pool. Crew have signed contracts where they have agreed to this fixed wage and one has to believe that if this were not an acceptable wage to them they would look elsewhere. 

 

30 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

This is very new to me and so my experience is limited to date. I really did wait until I had enough corroborating evidence from many reliable sources before going this route. But in my limited experience I just called GS (I think it was mid cruise but I don’t think that matters). I asked what would be the procedure if I wanted to remove or reduce my CA. She was quite nice about it and said I just had to tell her. And said I could remove all or part and I could adjust again at any time. So I asked her to please remove the charges already posted and to discontinue future charges. 
 

I think if I were asked why I would simply say Is that a requirement that I tell you why?  I certainly don’t want to get crew in trouble for talking about their compensation openly with me. 

 

5 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Hi there😀I don’t want to speculate on what % of passengers buy fares with CA built in that are not removable. I think it’s reasonable to surmise that the accountants at Princess have done the math and would not base an entire wage system on the unpredictable standard fare cruisers who can remove tips. It would seem prudent to base salaries on what the historical income from the packages has been. 
 

However, once a contract is signed salaries can not just be lowered.  Princess could reduce future contracts but they have to compete with other cruise lines for the same employees so there is that bit keeping things even. 
 

I think we’ve all noticed that Princess is trying to make the Plus and Premier packages more and more appealing by adding things that costs them little to nothing.  I personally (and seriously just my opinion) don’t think the group of standard fare passengers who will remove tips and give the $ directly to crew is large enough to move the needle at all on the financial spread sheet. Lots of people will do as you and that’s just fine. 
 

 

But who knows?  

I get what you're saying about them still receiving the same salary if we "pull" tips, but if tips are pulled, then bonuses are reduced, which would hurt them in the end...

[leck57]

5 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

I treat it as part of the cruise fare cost.  I am not sure I would do the best job in distribution, so will likely just pay it and tip extra as I see fit.

 

Now that it appears the CA is not going to the staff I have no guilt in removing it when I board. Of course I'll tip as I go but it probably won't be to the amount I've removed. 

[AnyMajorCruiseDude]

11 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Hi there😀I don’t want to speculate on what % of passengers buy fares with CA built in that are not removable. I think it’s reasonable to surmise that the accountants at Princess have done the math and would not base an entire wage system on the unpredictable standard fare cruisers who can remove tips. It would seem prudent to base salaries on what the historical income from the packages has been. 
 

However, once a contract is signed salaries can not just be lowered.  Princess could reduce future contracts but they have to compete with other cruise lines for the same employees so there is that bit keeping things even. 
 

I think we’ve all noticed that Princess is trying to make the Plus and Premier packages more and more appealing by adding things that costs them little to nothing.  I personally (and seriously just my opinion) don’t think the group of standard fare passengers who will remove tips and give the $ directly to crew is large enough to move the needle at all on the financial spread sheet. Lots of people will do as you and that’s just fine. 
 

 

But who knows?  

Well, your contacts have told you one thing, and mine have told me another.  Many we know have moved to other lines as the grass seems greener, but several of them have returned to their original line once the grass is not greener.  In any case, they are all aware that they can make a good living on cruise ships, and continue to work onboard (with whichever line has the best deal).  I have sat with crew and reviewed contracts from various lines, and the monetary compensation is all similar on a per hour worked basis.  However, many we know opt for the "lousy" contract (ie, longer shifts, longer contracts, and fewer days off) because they are trying to maximize cash in the bank.  None of the crew we know has ever recommended adjusting or removing the automatic tips, even knowing that doing so might increase their individual tips from us.  They are more concerned with the welfare of their fellow seapeople, many of whom are their neighbors, friends and countrymen.  

Everyone on the ship works long and hard.  They all deserve their hard earned pay, from whichever "bucket", and messing with the system doesn't necessarily benefit everyone.

[Cruise till you drop]

1 hour ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

I’m not trying to be rude but if you read through the thread that question will be answered. 

Actually it wasn’t.  Plus no matter what everyone else has stated, I wanted to know why that one particular person would remove gratuities.  Everyone may have their own reasons 

[antsp]

6 hours ago, PacnGoNow said:

When do you remove it?  Beginning or the end of the cruise?  

I don't, I was explaining a theory 

[dog]

6 hours ago, jwattle said:

 

 

I get what you're saying about them still receiving the same salary if we "pull" tips, but if tips are pulled, then bonuses are reduced, which would hurt them in the end...

And who is getting bonuses, NOW

on Princess ships?  
 

[SargassoPirate]

Very interesting read.  HaveDog's insights are thought provoking at least.

 

I am a standard cruiser and no matter how many times I put the pencil to it, a Plus or Premier package does not make financial sense to me.  That being said, I would never remove the basic tips.  The cruise line can call it "crew appreciation" or whatever they want, but it's still tips. Once the cruise line collects the tips, it's beyond my control on how the money is distributed.  If the crew has issues on how and where the tip money is distributed, it's their problem, not mine.

 

I do not tip extra at the end of the cruise since that is tipping on top of tips.  I do, however, make note of those who deliver superior service and mention them by name in the post cruise review.

 

I will, however, continue to tip a little extra to those excellent waiters who make sure my butt and my evening wee dram get to the table at about the same time.

[HaveDogWillTravel]

12 hours ago, AnyMajorCruiseDude said:

None of the crew we know has ever recommended adjusting or removing the automatic tips, even knowing that doing so might increase their individual tips from us. 

Hi there 😀 I need to make sure I am not misunderstood in what I have shared here.
 

Just to be clear I have never had a crew member recommend adjusting or removing the automatic tips. Never. I was simply given information that they did not receive any extra income from the gratuities collected- CA, the 18% added to drinks and such- .  

 

 I waited until I had a lot of corroborating evidence.  I was happy to read the multiple people who have piped in on this thread and another one who have also been told this.  

 

I think it’s great that everyone can react to this information how ever they want. I have no desire to try and convince anyone of anything. It’s just an FYI post. 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by HaveDogWillTravel

[HaveDogWillTravel]

13 hours ago, leck57 said:

 

Now that it appears the CA is not going to the staff I have no guilt in removing it when I board. Of course I'll tip as I go but it probably won't be to the amount I've removed. 

The money is pooled across the fleet & is used to pay staff their base salary. So yes it goes to the staff. It just isn’t given as an extra amount outside of the base.
 

Again just want to make sure I am clear in what I’ve shared. I think what anyone chooses to do with this information is entirely up them and personal.