Huge downturn in CC reviewer scores (this one's for the nerds)

[AlyssaJames]

Interesting data and doesn't surprise me at all--and I'm on more discussion sites than just CC. The two lines I see the most 'quality drop' complaints about are X and RC. 

I did something similar pre-pandemic with NCL--I noticed that Breakaway consistently had the lowest average review rating of all of its sister ships (Getaway, etc), and when I did sail Breakaway the complaints (at that time) were borne out. (In a word, the ship was gross. I understand it's had an extensive refurb since then.)

So while there are a lot of 'food is so subjective ...'-type dismissals, it is possible to spot trends in reviews, ratings, etc. If it wasn't, I wouldn't get a zillion consumer surveys per day in my inbox, to say nothing of the ones that pop up on every website now. 
 

Edited October 11, 2023 by AlyssaJames

[Georgia_Peaches]

2 hours ago, hankandteri said:

Love it. Did you know that 73% of statistics are made up on the spot?

On very rare occasions my DH and I have a difference of opinion that has been known to lead to an argument.  He would say I'm guilty of such on the spot practices during such times...😇 

[Spif Barwunkel]

1 hour ago, hankandteri said:

With the mentions of Gary Bembridge, Virgin, and the usefulness of Cruise Critic reviews on this thread, here’s something that combines all three. 
 

Mr. Bembridge just dropped a podcast episode that explains why Virgin, Disney, and Viking are rated so highly on Cruise Critic. He goes on to give some very interesting analysis of Celebrity at the end. His analysis is insightful but doesn’t take into account recent operational changes. 
 

Worth a listen. 
 

https://sites.libsyn.com/49893/the-cruise-lines-everyone-is-raving-about-right-now-and-why-podcast-382 

Strictly related to cruising, I find vloggers and bloggers and podcasters to be quite monotonous and boring. As far as I am concerned, there are no "cruising experts" who are able to provide me with vital cruising information necessary to enhance future experiences. Such is the case with the attached podcast. I listened to the entire presentation because of your "worth a listen" comment and it provided nothing for me that I did not already know. This in no way is intended to take away the value, importance and need for such information since there are many people new to cruising and veteran cruisers who still feel the need for guidance, or validation of their likes and dislikes. We are long-time cruisers and the best experts we can think of to go to for advice. It works for us.

 

You have authored an interesting thread. Your research and information have elicited worthwhile and interesting discussion. Thank you for that. Just like "not being a numbers guy", (please don't get lost again) I am not dependent on nor anxious for other people's comments regarding subjects on which I am quite familiar. They can be an interesting read while not always being a significant part of my decision making.      

[hcat]

Thumbs up!

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Strictly related to cruising, I find vloggers and bloggers and podcasters to be quite monotonous and boring. As far as I am concerned, there are no "cruising experts" who are able to provide me with vital cruising information necessary to enhance future experiences. Such is the case with the attached podcast. I listened to the entire presentation because of your "worth a listen" comment and it provided nothing for me that I did not already know. This in no way is intended to take away the value, importance and need for such information since there are many people new to cruising and veteran cruisers who still feel the need for guidance, or validation of their likes and dislikes. We are long-time cruisers and the best experts we can think of to go to for advice. It works for us.

 

You have authored an interesting thread. Your research and information have elicited worthwhile and interesting discussion. Thank you for that. Just like "not being a numbers guy", (please don't get lost again) I am not dependent on nor anxious for other people's comments regarding subjects on which I am quite familiar. They can be an interesting read while not always being a significant part of my decision making.      

 

A lot of them are travel agents or are affiliated with travel agents and therefore focus on cruise news with daily/near-daily videos.  I find former crew member Jay, from TheShipLife which is affiliated with a travel agent, gives the most honest review (he does a lot of cruise news videos as well).  In his reviews, he calls out the cruise lines on anything.  Those are the reviews that bring value.  Some people apparently enjoy a half-hour long video claiming that everything is perfect

[NutsAboutGolf]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:54 AM, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Does it though? How many people go out of their way to provide a glowing review? But if they have an axe to grind...they'll take any attention they can get. 

 

I cruise on X near-monthly and therefore am on a lot of FB groups including sail date specific.  You can see complaints in real-time and some posts about the survey.  Some indeed have gone out of their way to post glowing reviews because "despite food quality going down, I don't want to get anyone in trouble" and/or "the crew works so hard"

[horseymike]

The only thing that will reverse this trend is when people stop booking cruises , whether it be on X , RCL , HAL etc.

[The Fun Researcher]

Will someone please do the same for Royal, Princess and NCL?  Very interested to know their more recent average score.  I don't need data with a 95% confidence interval, I'm just curious.

 

Also, rather than the "last 60 reviews" I think it should be for a time period, like July, Aug, Sept 2023.  Different lines sail many more passengers and will have more reviews in a given time period, so just going with 60 reviews might be two months for Celebrity, or one month for Royal, or 3 months for Princess (just as an example)

Edited October 11, 2023 by The Fun Researcher

[jean87510]

4 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Strictly related to cruising, I find vloggers and bloggers and podcasters to be quite monotonous and boring. As far as I am concerned, there are no "cruising experts" who are able to provide me with vital cruising information necessary to enhance future experiences. Such is the case with the attached podcast. I listened to the entire presentation because of your "worth a listen" comment and it provided nothing for me that I did not already know. This in no way is intended to take away the value, importance and need for such information since there are many people new to cruising and veteran cruisers who still feel the need for guidance, or validation of their likes and dislikes. We are long-time cruisers and the best experts we can think of to go to for advice. It works for us.

 

You have authored an interesting thread. Your research and information have elicited worthwhile and interesting discussion. Thank you for that. Just like "not being a numbers guy", (please don't get lost again) I am not dependent on nor anxious for other people's comments regarding subjects on which I am quite familiar. They can be an interesting read while not always being a significant part of my decision making.      

In today's world, it's much easier to view a review then read one.  I do agree that many of the vloggers are not good.  Some examples are the camera aimed at their face the whole time, corny jokes, bad camera angles while walking...etc...  There are a few vloggers I like and actually the one that reviewed the Reflection sky suite was helpful in convincing me to adjust my vacation just from his feedback.  

I use YouTube for excursion research all the time.  I also use it for ship info and room info.  I find it much easier.  It doesn't matter how many times I've been somewhere (puerto rico, Cozumel, Florida), I always find something new and usually from a video search on YouTube.  

[SusieAV8R]

22 hours ago, wineoclock said:

Thank you @DaKahuna and @Cap_D

I really like Paul Bembridge but hadn’t seen his latest video regarding Celebrity. I now have. So thank you 

 

I’ll look out for the travelling gamblers. Am on steroids at the moment and been awake since 2.30am it’s now 3.45 so May see if I can while away my time 😁 

 

22 hours ago, wineoclock said:

Thank you @DaKahuna and @Cap_D

I really like Paul Bembridge but hadn’t seen his latest video regarding Celebrity. I now have. So thank you 

 

I’ll look out for the travelling gamblers. Am on steroids at the moment and been awake since 2.30am it’s now 3.45 so May see if I can while away my time 😁 

I have recently started following Paul Bembridge!  Oh my gosh!  His recent video regarding Alaskan cruises was fantastic; so full of great suggestions!

[SusieAV8R]

1 minute ago, SusieAV8R said:

 

I have recently started following Paul Bembridge!  Oh my gosh!  His recent video regarding Alaskan cruises was fantastic; so full of great suggestions!

Gary Bembridge, not Paul 🙄

[NMTraveller]

9 hours ago, AlyssaJames said:

Interesting data and doesn't surprise me at all--and I'm on more discussion sites than just CC. The two lines I see the most 'quality drop' complaints about are X and RC. 
 

I went over to the HAL board to see if they were having the numerous complaints about the MDR food.  I did see some complaints here and there but not the numbers that you do see here...

 

The numbers are something that I look at when booking a cruise if I have not been on the line for a while.

[wineoclock]

58 minutes ago, SusieAV8R said:

Gary Bembridge, not Paul 🙄

That was my fault - blame the steroids! 

[LauraS]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:27 PM, jean87510 said:

I had 2 reviews deleted by cruise critic when I criticized the 2021 restrictions on Royal.  So remember this forum also monitors and deletes reviews as well.  

 

Edited to add and I'm sure this post will be gone soon but had to make a point.

 

Hi jean87510:

The ratings displayed on the cruisecritic.com site are aggregated from published reviews only NOT FROM CONTENT POSTED ON THE FORUM.

 

If someone submits a review for publication -- and we reject that submission -- we clearly and concisely state the reason for not publishing when we return the review to you.  We return the entire text of the review back to them for ease of re-submission, which we wholeheartedly encourage. 

 

Because I'm also making a point here, I just checked, and I find that we published all three reviews that you submitted:  Two Celebrity Summit reviews (one in 2018, one in 2020) and Adventure of the Seas (2021).  There were no rejected reviews. 

 

Members may have reviews/comments removed from the forums, but that has absolutely no bearing on the cruise ratings stated on the website.

 

Hope this clears this up,

 

LauraS

[Lastdance]

20 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I cruise on X near-monthly and therefore am on a lot of FB groups including sail date specific.  You can see complaints in real-time and some posts about the survey.  Some indeed have gone out of their way to post glowing reviews because "despite food quality going down, I don't want to get anyone in trouble" and/or "the crew works so hard"

There is one particular poster on FB that addresses that she has done all of five cruises and is now an expert; she is also in the running for captain of the cheerleading squad, not to mention that everything onboard is glowing with photos and verbiage mostly of and about her!  She has gone Beyond crazy😝  

 

I do have to admit that I also enjoyed my two cruises in May on Beyond with another in less than two months, so am very interested in comparing my own experiences.  My SV experience was more in line with price point and what was included, but Luminae’s food selections were disappointing for its price point of a suite.  It was easy to compare doing a b2b!

Edited October 12, 2023 by Lastdance

[2Long2NxtCrz]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:58 PM, Cap_D said:

Bembridge is https://youtube.com/@tipsfortravellers?si=RC57ehAXynfXw_sD, and has one of the larger, or largest, subscriber numbers.  And, he's not a travel agent.  His recent raving and avoid videos gets in to annectdotes in various lines and reviews he's read.  He did not do stats. 

 

While Celebrity is in the rave about video, he highlights criticisms of the older ships vs Edge, and non-Retreat vs Retreat experiences. So, not all roses.  I don't believe he sailed Celebrity recently.  But, no doubt he'd call out bad food if that's what he had.  

 

And, while about NCL, Ben and David just panned Haven given the price and issues observed.  Some were less to do with quality more to do with what isn't included even after paying for Haven, and reduced access to inclusions like a 1 hour window for breakfast at the Haven restaurant and no coffee in the lounge.  

 

(The vacationers with YouTube videos tend to be a bit more positive and less critical of their experiences.)  

 

For annectdotes, the Traveling Gamblers tend to be on a ship several times a month, and post relatively free form thoughts, shipboard annectdotes, and personal reviews of food.  They had first hand video of the OVC cutbacks and it's restoration, for example.  They aren't necessarily critical, as much as they are first hand witnesses leaving viewers to reach their own conclusions.  

We were on Beyond in December and stumbled across the Traveling Gamblers. We struck up a bit of a conversation mostly because I was astounded at the number of $100 bills that were being fed into a slot machine. So we asked. They gave us their card. I admit I haven't gone to their channel because we both still work and cannot spend our lives at sea, plus we cruise for the ports and wouldn't want to spend our cruise in the casino, but to each his own. I'd definitely listen to their perspective, though, because they do spend so much time on board.

 

I edited this to add:
Everyone has to decide for themselves what is important and what provides the most value for the cost. Some people have to cruise in suites and I can imagine that those folks would be dismayed by the costs on Celebrity (I know I am and I've never cruised in one and probably never will).

 

I am hopeful that all the cruise lines will restore a lot of the services and quality that they offered pre-covid once they've done something about their massive debt. I will not hold my breath on that happening though because just like airlines and baggage fees, they end up making a lot of money with the changes. And all corporations are in business to make money.

 

I tried HAL for the first time this year, specifically because I wanted hubby to see Glacier Bay. I enjoyed HAL. It was very relaxing, but I missed some things that I take for granted on X, especially all the live music.

 

Having said that we have X booked for a partial Panama Canal transit in March and HAL booked for a Boston to Montreal and then nothing. For the first time in ten years, I don't have any cruises booked, nor any intention to book one. And it's not because I don't enjoy cruising or I'm upset at the changes, but hubby wants to do Egypt, so that's our 2025 plans. And my kids want to do a family trip to Europe (Spain & Italia), so we're discussing those things. Once we retire, I'm sure we'll get back to cruising, but there are other things we'll be doing, too, especially because we'll have the time.

 

Lastly, people generally provide reviews when they're upset and very rarely when they're pleased. I haven't written a review on CC in forever, which is my bad because I rely on folks to do that. I would rather tell customer service right then when I'm unhappy so that they can fix it, rather than wait until I'm off to complain. That's just us. Statistics are always fascinating to me, but I also always take them with a heaping helping of salt. 😉

Edited October 12, 2023 by 2Long2NxtCrz

[jean87510]

3 hours ago, LauraS said:

 

Hi jean87510:

The ratings displayed on the cruisecritic.com site are aggregated from published reviews only NOT FROM CONTENT POSTED ON THE FORUM.

 

If someone submits a review for publication -- and we reject that submission -- we clearly and concisely state the reason for not publishing when we return the review to you.  We return the entire text of the review back to them for ease of re-submission, which we wholeheartedly encourage. 

 

Because I'm also making a point here, I just checked, and I find that we published all three reviews that you submitted:  Two Celebrity Summit reviews (one in 2018, one in 2020) and Adventure of the Seas (2021).  There were no rejected reviews. 

 

Members may have reviews/comments removed from the forums, but that has absolutely no bearing on the cruise ratings stated on the website.

 

Hope this clears this up,

 

LauraS

interesting.  I have to disagree with you on the b2b Adventure as I received an email stating both reviews weren't acceptable.  

[Z0nker]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:48 AM, ldtr said:

an apples to oranges comparison. You need to compare the recent Celebrity scores, to the scores for the other cruise lines for the same period. Comparing recent for one to historical for others is not good practice.

 

I expect that you will find all lines have dropped in the same period.

I, too, would like to see recent numbers for other lines.

[LauraS]

1 hour ago, jean87510 said:

interesting.  I have to disagree with you on the b2b Adventure as I received an email stating both reviews weren't acceptable.  

Those were email reminders for forum posts of yours that were removed.

 

I want to be clear about this.  Posts on the forum in no way affect the member ratings displayed on cruisecritic.com.

[C 2 C]

I want to thank  hankandteri, for an intriguing look at reviews from cruise critic members..  CC members represent perhaps 4-6 % of the cruising public.  More importantly CC members express themselves while the majority do not.

What is a good sample?  

 

If I look at ten posts, I have a very good idea of how cruisers think about a thread.

There are posters who always seem very balanced, others totally out to lunch (from my perspective.)

 

When I see that HAL's rating has decreased very little over this time period, I would agree because we have cruised with HAL a dozen times in the last year.  Their product is not perfect but their food quality has been stellar from OUR point of view.

 

If you take any sample of data, it's the trend that becomes significant.

If I look at the respondents to this topic, I have no way of knowing whether any one of them has cruised in the past year or how often.  Individual opinions are less significant than the trend in data.

If only ten people post a review, and they all post lower scores than past averages, there is a noticeable shift in perception of the cruise line.

 

My own opinion of Celebrity has gone up dramatically since we will again be allowed to enter the Retreat.  That opinion has nothing to do with experiencing a Celebrity Cruise.  That opinion is based on a reaction by the company to a concern by passengers who cruise 3 to 4 months of the year.

 

"Where there is smoke, there is fire" is concept well entrenched in statistical studies.

 

I don't look at conversations about apples and oranges when peaches are way more significant.

[TheMichael]

60 reviews is certainly sufficient to suggest a trend. It really isn't necessary to compare to other cruise lines' recent reviews, except to see if the trend also applies to those other lines.

 

Nor is the fact that it's a small sample compared to the whole universe particularly troublesome, if the reviews adhere to the previous "cruiser profile" of generally first-time cruisers. However, it might be important to see if there are indications in those reviews that that trend has changed (for example, "in the past, Celebrity..." or "my previous trip..." or "...suddenly changed...").

 

It will be interesting to see if the trend continues, as I've been considering Celebrity for a future vacation.

Edited October 12, 2023 by TheMichael

[JLvacation]

Good Morning All 

 

   I want to start by Thanking  hankandteri,  for starting this Discussion . 

 

   I'm not a Travel Agent / Nor am I affiliated with any other Travel Stuff > We / I just really enjoy Cruising threw Life .

 

Whether it be the Food or just the Lack of Customer Service to the People that make the Cruising Industry what it is Today ! ~ We / I have talked to My Better Half more then once about  these exact Cruising Topic's ! 

 

We tried going to a all inclusive resort once , just to compare it to being on a cruise . We ended up booking another Cruise while we where there . ( ROTFL )

 

However We are trying to adjust to the industry changes that these Companies are making . 

We have some Cruises coming up for the holiday with Family , as well as one with people that We introduced to Cruising for their Honeymoon getaway , That they asked us to go with them ~ Being they where new to cruising .   An We always talked it up ,{ That if your going to take a Vacation / Cruising's the way to go } ~ So we are definitely comparing the Pro's & Con's to the way We / I remember cruising use to be . To the way it is becoming .

 

Please , If anyone has any suggestion's to help our cruising experience in the future ! 

Whether it be Cruise Lines or Basic Tip's .... Please tell Me ! 

 

Sincerely ~  JLvacation   

 

 

 

 

[hankandteri]

17 hours ago, Z0nker said:

I, too, would like to see recent numbers for other lines.

This thread kind of took on a life of its own, so I can’t blame you for not wanting to wade through all all of it. After others asked, I also did the same calculation for three other lines (Carnival, HAL and Virgin) to see if that recent dip in CC reviewer rating was impacting all cruise lines. 

Carnival recent review scores also dropped from their historic average, nearly as much as Celebrity’s did. HAL reviews were essentially flat. Virgin’s recent reviewer scores were up significantly over their already high benchmark rating. 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by hankandteri

[Markanddonna]

I did a nerdy analysis of the MSC Divina and their ratings in the last year have dropped a full point. 

[JLvacation]

10 minutes ago, hankandteri said:

This thread kind of took on a life of its own, so I can’t blame you for not wanting to wade through all all of it. After others asked, I also did the same calculation for three other lines (Carnival, HAL and Virgin) to see if that recent dip in CC reviewer rating was impacting all cruise lines. 

Carnival recent review scores also dropped from their historic average, nearly as much as Celebrity’s did. HAL reviews were essentially flat. Virgin’s recent reviewer scores were up significantly over their already high benchmark rating. 

 

 

    Thank You / Yes I took the easy way out . After reading the first few pages, I ended up just jumping to the back . an read down from there . I'm not scared to ask for help . which is why I did just that 😉 

 

Between the Professional Cruiser's & Travel Agents ! It was much easier to just ask for help from You an them  . Then to read every post ! 

 

So again ~ Thanks 

JLvacation