Gratuities Are Going Up Again, Effective 11.11.2023

[ReneeFLL]

Just now, EmmasNana said:

How does that work when you prepay the gratuities and your final payment isn't due yet? Do you actually pay it prior to final payment or just have it selected as prepay? I have a cruise that is in 2024. 

When you prepay it goes onto the final cost of your cruise so you end up paying for it at final payment.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by ReneeFLL

[nelblu]

6 minutes ago, EmmasNana said:

How does that work when you prepay the gratuities and your final payment isn't due yet? Do you actually pay it prior to final payment or just have it selected as prepay? I have a cruise that is in 2024. 

It's added to your invoice and the entire balance of invoice is paid when due which is usually 90 days prior to sail.

[Arubamoose]

3 hours ago, EmmasNana said:

I just sent an email to my TA and will post what he says.

 

My TA said that I cannot use my OBC ahead of time to prepay tips.

My OBC was not really promotional - I got it because of an issue I had on a prior cruise and from my stockholder benefit.  I will be getting additional promotional OBC from my TA.

But they will deduct the tips from my OBC once I am on board.

So on my 11 night cruise - with the cost of the increase - I am out $44 dollars.

Basically they just shot themselves in the foot because I now have $44 dollars less to spend on board.

[nelblu]

2 minutes ago, Arubamoose said:

Basically they just shot themselves in the foot because I now have $44 dollars less to spend on board

One way or another, they got your $44.🤣

[Arubamoose]

4 minutes ago, nelblu said:

One way or another, they got your $44.🤣

 

TRUE!!

[Ocean Boy]

42 minutes ago, nelblu said:

One way or another, they got your $44.🤣

However, if RCI does in fact turn all that money over to the crew then RCI is out $44 in income. If the poster had used that money to buy three drinks then RCI would only be out the cost of the ingredients of the drinks or about $6 figuring $2 cost to RCI per drink. RCI is now at -$38. Seems like a shot in the foot to me.

[nelblu]

6 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

However, if RCI does in fact turn all that money over to the crew then RCI is out $44 in income. If the poster had used that money to buy three drinks then RCI would only be out the cost of the ingredients of the drinks or about $6 figuring $2 cost to RCI per drink. RCI is now at -$38. Seems like a shot in the foot to me.

Conversely, there's less contribution that Royal has to make if there's a shortfall in the total employee fund.🤣

 

[gavvy]

7 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Do they get to keep that money though? Or does it HAVE to go into the general pot?

Not 100% sure but putting money in someone's hand is better than giving it in trust to a company who openly had dubious sales and reductions on packages and tours.

My hope is giving my state room attendant cash means it goes direct to them rather than through the corporate machine.

 

Cash is king as they say.

 

My opinion. Yours may differ and is just as valid.

 

 

[jean87510]

Curious why Royal is claiming the need to increase gratuities when the service has been decreased to 1x a day.  Do they make a lot of profit from cococay and labadee, the casinos, the ridiculous price gouging of wifi, overloading shore excursions where they don't exactly pay the locals a great price, onboard shops and activities for a cost, drink packages...etc...  From what I read, the cruises are sailing at full capacity.  Is it staffing that is the issue?  Is it an incentive to lure staff back?  Why this need in the past few years to milk the little guy in the back who folds towels needs to be tipped?  I don't have an opinion either way on gratuities.  If you want to do it, great.  If not, great.  It's your money.  I just would like to know why 1.  the need for increase, 2.  is Royal not making any profit at all to give the crew monetary incentives and 3.  if so, is this why the customer is expected for lack of a better word to show the appreciation to the staff by monetary incentives rather then the company showing the appreciation.

[Ashland]

OK...Now I'm confused. If I pre-pay tips can I not remove them onboard?

If I do not pre pay can I remove the daily charges once onboard and tip who I want to.

 

And does my cabin steward know either way?

[nelblu]

13 minutes ago, gavvy said:

Not 100% sure but putting money in someone's hand is better than giving it in trust to a company who openly had dubious sales and reductions on packages and tours.

If you have such low opinion of this company, why do you even bother with them.  It boggles my mind.

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, Ashland said:

If I pre-pay tips can I not remove them onboard?

If I do not pre pay can I remove the daily charges once onboard and tip who I want to.

No.

Yes.

[travelberlin]

14 minutes ago, Ashland said:

OK...Now I'm confused. If I pre-pay tips can I not remove them onboard?

If I do not pre pay can I remove the daily charges once onboard and tip who I want to.

 

And does my cabin steward know either way?

Your cabin steward knows if you remove gratuities. They also know if you have prepaid.

[bjlaac]

Late to this conversation but I've been involved in others for many years like most of you.  We've for the most part paid the daily gratuities plus some extra on most of our cruises for years.  As I've stated before, we remember when it was recommended amounts per waiter, steward and bus boy and handed cash to each of them.  Then the cruise lines started collecting those amounts via daily services charges which you opted in if you wished and they would provide vouchers you actually handed to the stewards and waiters with extra cash if you were so inclined.  If they left it that way it would have been fine.

 

Then the mumbo jumbo started predicated with an increase in the daily  service charge and the sob story of its not only the waiters and stewards but laundry and behind the scenes workers too so there's no need to hand these vouchers back to the stewards and waiters as RCL will distribute accordingly.  This coupled with no breakdown of where these monies go with the never ending increases just about every year has led us to today's discussions.

 

I for one believe these charges are out of hand already, before the latest scheduled increase, and with a little analysis came up with some interesting numbers.  In 2022, RCCL onboard payroll was $1.3 billion which should include every person from the captain to the waiter, bus boy, bar service, laundry, officers etc..  The total cost of food was $0.6 billion which I might point out includes the specialty restaurant foods.  That totals $1.9 billion dollars of expenses where gratuities would normally be calculated even though its ectremely the high end as I've already mentioned it includes people you would not normally tip (Captain, Engineers) or expenses that have another stream of gratuity revenue such as the booze plan and specialty venues. 

 

Take a standard 20% gratuity on the $1.9 billion and you get $380 million in service fees.  In 2022, RCCL had 5.5 million passengers who took a total of 35.1 million days at sea, they sailed at 85.1% capacity.  Divide the $380 million by the 35.1 million sea days and the daily service charge should be around $11 per person per night at a 20% tip rate.

 

All of these numbers are in the annual report and as you can see, the daily service charge at $16 is already at a 30% rate even before backing out people you would not normally tip or expenses that have additional gratuities built in already.

 

 

[Engineroom Snipe]

6 minutes ago, bjlaac said:

All of these numbers are in the annual report and as you can see, the daily service charge at $16 is already at a 30% rate even before backing out people you would not normally tip or expenses that have additional gratuities built in already.

 

 

Very interesting analysis and well presented. Thank you for your time and opinion on the matter.

 

What I am seeing and listening on this particular thread is not the average complaining and moaning that some others threads contain.

 

The opinions come from many thoughtful experienced cruisers who love cruising.

 

We are banging the drum as loud as we can to say to RCI: "You are crossing the loyal repeat customer lines...." .

 

I have only 7 days reserved for next year and none for 2025. Probably the first time in ten years where I did not have a minimum of 16 days per year booked well in advance.

 

I will be doing a review of the 8pm MDR on the Jewel one week from now (not live). I have not been impressed with dining for many years. I keep hoping for the best. I hope it is not once again mediocre "SYSCO" provided foods and sauces. So far, the food except in a few circumstances has been maybe a 6 out of ten at best for the last few years.

 

Reading these posts, I am not alone about "where is the money going" except to pay RCI shareholders after borrowing lots of money to survive the pandemic.

 

I had to provide for my family during the pandemic. I am not going to pay what I think are additional fees for new cruises just to "help RCI survive."

 

I am just standing on the sidelines for awhile to watch things unfold.

 

 

 

[iscruisingdunzo]

11 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Very interesting analysis and well presented. Thank you for your time and opinion on the matter.

 

What I am seeing and listening on this particular thread is not the average complaining and moaning that some others threads contain.

 

The opinions come from many thoughtful experienced cruisers who love cruising.

 

We are banging the drum as loud as we can to say to RCI: "You are crossing the loyal repeat customer lines...." .

 

I have only 7 days reserved for next year and none for 2025. Probably the first time in ten years where I did not have a minimum of 16 days per year booked well in advance.

 

I will be doing a review of the 8pm MDR on the Jewel one week from now (not live). I have not been impressed with dining for many years. I keep hoping for the best. I hope it is not once again mediocre "SYSCO" provided foods and sauces. So far, the food except in a few circumstances has been maybe a 6 out of ten at best for the last few years.

 

Reading these posts, I am not alone about "where is the money going" except to pay RCI shareholders after borrowing lots of money to survive the pandemic.

 

I had to provide for my family during the pandemic. I am not going to pay what I think are additional fees for new cruises just to "help RCI survive."

 

I am just standing on the sidelines for awhile to watch things unfold.

 

 

 

Huh!? RCI just posted profits in the billions. This is not about surviving by any means. 

[Texas Bill]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:33 AM, tottenhamfc said:

This is true so make the model fully inclusive and forget about the smoke and mirrors. Some cultures do not tip so I dont feel the need to subsidize their cultural preferences. This is the primary reason that grats are increasing. 

I don't think so, is this why rates have increased so much? I don't like subsidizing those that cruise free and only pay taxes and fees. Per your thinking then everyone should pay full price for cursing and maybe rates would go down for the rest of us. Problem with this new model gratuities do not go to those that give you exceptional service. I liked it years ago when we gave it to those who we thought deserved it. Now they say it even goes to teams - what teams????  

[tottenhamfc]

Just now, Texas Bill said:

I don't think so, is this why rates have increased so much? I don't like subsidizing those that cruise free and only pay taxes and fees. Per your thinking then everyone should pay full price for cursing and maybe rates would go down for the rest of us. Problem with this new model gratuities do not go to those that give you exceptional service. I liked it years ago when we gave it to those who we thought deserved it. Now they say it even goes to teams - what teams????  

35 minutes ago, bjlaac said:

Late to this conversation but I've been involved in others for many years like most of you.  We've for the most part paid the daily gratuities plus some extra on most of our cruises for years.  As I've stated before, we remember when it was recommended amounts per waiter, steward and bus boy and handed cash to each of them.  Then the cruise lines started collecting those amounts via daily services charges which you opted in if you wished and they would provide vouchers you actually handed to the stewards and waiters with extra cash if you were so inclined.  If they left it that way it would have been fine.

 

Then the mumbo jumbo started predicated with an increase in the daily  service charge and the sob story of its not only the waiters and stewards but laundry and behind the scenes workers too so there's no need to hand these vouchers back to the stewards and waiters as RCL will distribute accordingly.  This coupled with no breakdown of where these monies go with the never ending increases just about every year has led us to today's discussions.

 

I for one believe these charges are out of hand already, before the latest scheduled increase, and with a little analysis came up with some interesting numbers.  In 2022, RCCL onboard payroll was $1.3 billion which should include every person from the captain to the waiter, bus boy, bar service, laundry, officers etc..  The total cost of food was $0.6 billion which I might point out includes the specialty restaurant foods.  That totals $1.9 billion dollars of expenses where gratuities would normally be calculated even though its ectremely the high end as I've already mentioned it includes people you would not normally tip (Captain, Engineers) or expenses that have another stream of gratuity revenue such as the booze plan and specialty venues. 

 

Take a standard 20% gratuity on the $1.9 billion and you get $380 million in service fees.  In 2022, RCCL had 5.5 million passengers who took a total of 35.1 million days at sea, they sailed at 85.1% capacity.  Divide the $380 million by the 35.1 million sea days and the daily service charge should be around $11 per person per night at a 20% tip rate.

 

All of these numbers are in the annual report and as you can see, the daily service charge at $16 is already at a 30% rate even before backing out people you would not normally tip or expenses that have additional gratuities built in already.

 

6 minutes ago, Texas Bill said:

I don't think so, is this why rates have increased so much? I don't like subsidizing those that cruise free and only pay taxes and fees. Per your thinking then everyone should pay full price for cursing and maybe rates would go down for the rest of us. Problem with this new model gratuities do not go to those that give you exceptional service. I liked it years ago when we gave it to those who we thought deserved it. Now they say it even goes to teams - what teams????  

So you only consider face to face staff as service? I feel that anyone associated with a good experience contributes to that service. For example when you go for dinner do you remember the server who theoretically just brings the plate or the chef who prepared the meal. Do you get appreciate clean tableware clean carpets? The waiter has one function and is rewarded with all

of the tip. I don't think that is fair TBH. It is a collective effort. In most restaurants on land the server pays out a percentage to the behind the scenes crew. That being said the tip pool is way too high and is not equal to the cutbacks and the quality, particularly in the main dining room. And the tip surfing which now includes the Head waiters and the constant banter over the intercom to pat themselves on the back is getting nauseating. I dont care about the bloody macarana and the parade of champions while I am eating and engaging in conversation. It is becoming a circus side show. On my recent TA which was 15 days we probably had this sideshow 10 times

[RG306]

I have two upcoming sailings that are impacted by this change. I have always prepaid gratuities (even when never setting foot in the MDR and Windjammer) and generally pay additional gratuities onboard to staff who provide exceptional service and frankly those who provide acceptable service. We purchase drink, dining, and internet packages and spend the casino. We do so gladly in order to have an elevated experience because the standard experience is continually being degraded. Increasing gratuities while simultaneously decreasing services is insulting and disappointing.  Notably, the changes to cabin service to once daily and the deterioration in both quality and service in the main dining room have a great impact on the cruise experience and are also a significant component of the gratuity.

 

Consumers have many options for where they spend their vacation dollars, Royal Caribbean is beginning to lose its appeal after many years of providing our family with such special experiences and memories. I will definitely be looking at competitors for our future sailings due to the deterioration in service, quality, and lack of interesting itineraries. There are also land vacation alternatives. It is what it is, we know what we are getting, what we are paying for and we will let our wallets do the speaking. 

[Engineroom Snipe]

7 minutes ago, iscruisingdunzo said:

Huh!? RCI just posted profits in the billions. This is not about surviving by any means. 

@iscruisingdunzo Agreed.

 

So many times you will read in many threads about how RCI has to repay the loans using increased fees and prices as a reason.

 

The CEO says for far too long, in so many words, cruises were being priced much lower than "comparable" vacation experiences.

 

I am "comparing" vacation experiences and cruising is starting to not be very competitive.

 

As I said, I am just going to wait on the sidelines for the dust to settle a bit before I book any more RCI cruises. I have been loyal to Royal since 1988.

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

Very interesting analysis and well presented. Thank you for your time and opinion on the matter.

 

What I am seeing and listening on this particular thread is not the average complaining and moaning that some others threads contain.

 

The opinions come from many thoughtful experienced cruisers who love cruising.

 

We are banging the drum as loud as we can to say to RCI: "You are crossing the loyal repeat customer lines...." .

 

I have only 7 days reserved for next year and none for 2025. Probably the first time in ten years where I did not have a minimum of 16 days per year booked well in advance.

 

I will be doing a review of the 8pm MDR on the Jewel one week from now (not live). I have not been impressed with dining for many years. I keep hoping for the best. I hope it is not once again mediocre "SYSCO" provided foods and sauces. So far, the food except in a few circumstances has been maybe a 6 out of ten at best for the last few years.

 

Reading these posts, I am not alone about "where is the money going" except to pay RCI shareholders after borrowing lots of money to survive the pandemic.

 

I had to provide for my family during the pandemic. I am not going to pay what I think are additional fees for new cruises just to "help RCI survive."

 

I am just standing on the sidelines for awhile to watch things unfold.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree.  

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, bjlaac said:

Late to this conversation but I've been involved in others for many years like most of you.  We've for the most part paid the daily gratuities plus some extra on most of our cruises for years.  As I've stated before, we remember when it was recommended amounts per waiter, steward and bus boy and handed cash to each of them.  Then the cruise lines started collecting those amounts via daily services charges which you opted in if you wished and they would provide vouchers you actually handed to the stewards and waiters with extra cash if you were so inclined.  If they left it that way it would have been fine.

 

Then the mumbo jumbo started predicated with an increase in the daily  service charge and the sob story of its not only the waiters and stewards but laundry and behind the scenes workers too so there's no need to hand these vouchers back to the stewards and waiters as RCL will distribute accordingly.  This coupled with no breakdown of where these monies go with the never ending increases just about every year has led us to today's discussions.

 

I for one believe these charges are out of hand already, before the latest scheduled increase, and with a little analysis came up with some interesting numbers.  In 2022, RCCL onboard payroll was $1.3 billion which should include every person from the captain to the waiter, bus boy, bar service, laundry, officers etc..  The total cost of food was $0.6 billion which I might point out includes the specialty restaurant foods.  That totals $1.9 billion dollars of expenses where gratuities would normally be calculated even though its ectremely the high end as I've already mentioned it includes people you would not normally tip (Captain, Engineers) or expenses that have another stream of gratuity revenue such as the booze plan and specialty venues. 

 

Take a standard 20% gratuity on the $1.9 billion and you get $380 million in service fees.  In 2022, RCCL had 5.5 million passengers who took a total of 35.1 million days at sea, they sailed at 85.1% capacity.  Divide the $380 million by the 35.1 million sea days and the daily service charge should be around $11 per person per night at a 20% tip rate.

 

All of these numbers are in the annual report and as you can see, the daily service charge at $16 is already at a 30% rate even before backing out people you would not normally tip or expenses that have additional gratuities built in already.

 

 

Very well put.  I think it's fair to question this.  My husband and I were just talking about this topic today.  

[LobsterStalker]

On 10/31/2023 at 9:29 PM, Tree_skier said:

My 7 night cruise just went up $28 dollars. I typically tip extra at the end of the cruise.  Tips go to waiter, A. waiter and cabin steward.  I see each one of these getting $10 less than usual.  

I have continued to leave auto Grats on and still tip waiter and Assistant the same as always , but it was only common sense to me at the very least to knock the stewards "Ëxtra" in half on last months cruises . I mean why would I tip him the same amount extra , when he now has twice the amount of rooms he had previously due to only servicing once a day? If everyone continued to tip what they had previously thought of as being fair , He would be making a damn good increase ! So factoring the same logic into the auto Grats and their constant increases alongside the reductions in service , It really makes me ask myself why I am still leaving them on 

...But I am ! 

...To be continued with later thought 

 

Cheers

[LobsterStalker]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:13 AM, Ocean Boy said:

If 100% of passengers paid the suggested amount it wouldn't change RCI's increases in the slightest.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you ..... That is so obvious , I'm growing tired hearing so many say otherwise !

 

Cheers

[SoFlaCruzer]

After they made the change and added the 'recommended' gratuities to the onboard account, I have always left them there and paid them. On top of that, I always left at least a couple of hundred extra across those employees that served me directly - room steward, dining staff, specific bartenders.

 

I am just off a sailing, and I probably spent double the amount of recommended tips when you add the cash I handed out in person. I always want to make sure that those that give me good service are rewarded, so cash in their hands is king. I wont stop that. But I am leaning towards having automatic tips removed from my account. And I will cover in cash more than those amounts. 

 

Drinks already have 18%, and an extra buck here and there is good for the bartenders. Dining room server, assistant, head waiter, and room steward will probably get 1.5x - 2x the 'recommended' tips, in cash, from me in hand. Does this mean the maintenance guys, the cooks in kitchen, the security guys, and all other areas wont get a "tip" from me. Maybe. But when RCCL determined the amounts originally they said X for waiter, Y for assistant waiter, Z for room steward, etc. So I will be tipping those that give me direct service and rewarding them better than with auto tips.