Crows Nest closed from 4-9 every evening for private (park west) group - Oostradam

[oakridger]

Posted at same time as previous!!

 

Edited April 22 by oakridger

[cccole]

52 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

I think if the Cruise line is charging me full fare for a cruise, I have an expectation that I will be able to use the amenities that come with the booking. If the cruise line decides that some group who may or may not have paid full fare should have exclusive use of amenities they just rented to me (in my full fare) I'm going to be looking for compensation. I really don't care that the contract says "we (the cruise line) can do whatever we want; all contracts are based on a "meeting of the minds" as it were and if at the time of my booking you said that amenities such as the Crows Nest or anytime dining are included in my fare. Then Bob's Book club shows up with 600 passengers (most likely with discounted fares) and I (full fare booked well in advance) is now excluded from these things, well they have broken that contract.

So what do you do?  You feel they have broken the contract. The fine print of the HAL contract allows them to do just about anything.  I just don't know what you do.  If passengers are advised of these types of situations prior to final payment, there is an option.  After final payment...I don't know.  The fine print of the contract is sooooooo important. Complaints on the app sound like they are heard, but the disruption to your cruise has already happened.  I don't know what the answer is, but those affected have a right to be upset.   Cherie   

[TRLD]

5 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Groups are starting to come back post covid.
 

There is a huge group at the Kapalua ritz Carlton right now. Last night they took over the entire beach bar area. I’d be ticked paying 2k a night and having the hotel amenities reduced.

 

Unfortunately hAl isn’t the only line doing this. NCL reserved their observation lounge (same concept as crows nest) for the entire voyage of an Alaskan scenic cruise, and I believe the room was reserved 24 hours a day.

 

Not saying it’s right, just saying that this is happening across the industry (land and sea). I always check for big groups before booking and avoid if possible.

 

Sorry the OP had this experience. Just because it’s fairly common doesn’t make it pleasant. 

 

 

HAL, Princess, Celebrity, RCCL, NCL, CCL all book large groups that get advantageous treatment. What areas they use very by group. Always good to search for the dates of any cruise one is considering, especially 7 days or then, though I have seen groups on longer cruises. Anytime there is a large group some areas can and will be reserved for private functions.  Even seen it with some TA groups.

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

I think if the Cruise line is charging me full fare for a cruise, I have an expectation that I will be able to use the amenities that come with the booking. If the cruise line decides that some group who may or may not have paid full fare should have exclusive use of amenities they just rented to me (in my full fare) I'm going to be looking for compensation. I really don't care that the contract says "we (the cruise line) can do whatever we want; all contracts are based on a "meeting of the minds" as it were and if at the time of my booking you said that amenities such as the Crows Nest or anytime dining are included in my fare. Then Bob's Book club shows up with 600 passengers (most likely with discounted fares) and I (full fare booked well in advance) is now excluded from these things, well they have broken that contract.

Good luck with that. No such promises in your cruise contract. Hours and availability of venues not defined and subject to change.

[jimdee3636]

The "partial charter" problem extends even to high-price cruise lines. ("Full" charters are mostly irrelevant to the rest of us, because the charter group is taking over the whole ship). I follow the Silversea board (I've been on three of their cruises), and there have been major complaints about groups taking over a third to a half the ship. The biggest offenders are the "incentive" cruise rewards for, say, car salesmen and dealers who exceed their quota for the past year. Because Silversea is an alcohol-included line, most of these people will start drinking from the minute they get up in the morning to the minute they pass out at night, in the meantime taking over every eating and drinking venue with loud, obnoxious people who treat it as a Carnival cruise. Not pleasant for guests who are paying well over $1,000 pp/night for an "elevated" experience.

 

As others have pointed out, the biggest problems, on any line, tend to be on Caribbean-based, 7-night cruises. I avoid them like the Plague.

 

Jim

 

 

[crystalspin]

4 hours ago, shiner6 said:

The crow's nest is number one reason I book Holland.  

My husband would be crushed, and I suspect would be after me to find another cruiseline.

[SusieKIslandGirl]

Any spies in the crowd who could check on how many people are actually "behind the curtain"? Is it actually worthwhile-are people showing up for whatever is going on?

[powlan]

3 hours ago, jimdee3636 said:

The "partial charter" problem extends even to high-price cruise lines. ("Full" charters are mostly irrelevant to the rest of us, because the charter group is taking over the whole ship). I follow the Silversea board (I've been on three of their cruises), and there have been major complaints about groups taking over a third to a half the ship. The biggest offenders are the "incentive" cruise rewards for, say, car salesmen and dealers who exceed their quota for the past year. Because Silversea is an alcohol-included line, most of these people will start drinking from the minute they get up in the morning to the minute they pass out at night, in the meantime taking over every eating and drinking venue with loud, obnoxious people who treat it as a Carnival cruise. Not pleasant for guests who are paying well over $1,000 pp/night for an "elevated" experience.

 

As others have pointed out, the biggest problems, on any line, tend to be on Caribbean-based, 7-night cruises. I avoid them like the Plague.

 

Jim

 

 

My wife and I took a Seabourn cruise many years ago and there was a group of people from a large industrial carpet company. Free cruise, all the booze they wanted and we saw them take over almost every public area. What did we do? Basically tried to  chat with those who were somewhat sober and figured that's what it is. and we tried to make the best of it. Didn't complain since that would have taken time and energy.

Decided that the biggest problem was that this Seabourn ship was too small for us. We began sailing HAL (usually Volandam and Zandaam)  where fortunately we haven't run into that problem. 

[ski ww]

I too would be up set. We do enjoy the Crows Nest. I guess the only thing is to complain as loud and as often as possible, use the appt and the post cruise survey. There is nothing the Capt. can do about it as the decision is out of his hands. I do think if HQ gets enough complaints, things will change. 

[ghstudio]

On 4/21/2024 at 12:11 PM, julia said:

Every single evening??  From 4-9pm??  When, pray tell, are these folks planning to dine?!

They set up the room at 4…move all the furniture, put in seats and art on easels…it stays that way all evening, everything returned to normal at 9 pm. The buyers don’t sit there the whole time, but the art and furniture says there.

[ghstudio]

11 hours ago, SusieKIslandGirl said:

Any spies in the crowd who could check on how many people are actually "behind the curtain"? Is it actually worthwhile-are people showing up for whatever is going on?

 

11 hours ago, SusieKIslandGirl said:

Any spies in the crowd who could check on how many people are actually "behind the curtain"? Is it actually worthwhile-are people showing up for whatever is going on?

Based on a sheet I saw with what I think is park west’s ‘valuation’ of each piece of art, it could be very valuable to park west if any sell any at even half the valuation….vs prices I found through google for the same prints (many of the works are prints, not unique paintings…so you can find some of those values using google).  It may or may not be valuable to the buyers ….

[Mary229]

What you do is exactly what he is doing here - complain loudly. Be sure you leave a message on the app every evening it is closed, state it prominently on your post cruise survey and even email Seattle directly.  I agree with you this should be changed.  

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, ghstudio said:

 

Based on a sheet I saw with what I think is park west’s ‘valuation’ of each piece of art, it could be very valuable to park west if any sell any at even half the valuation….vs prices I found through google for the same prints (many of the works are prints, not unique paintings…so you can find some of those values using google).  It may or may not be valuable to the buyers ….

Unfortunately people do buy it.  We sold collectibles and know a tad about art. My husband’s friends wanted us to view the “art” they were going to buy.  We refused as we never comment to another’s customer about valuation.  Unfortunately this dear man paid $15000 for something I wouldn’t give $100 for.  A well known tactic in sales is to charge an exorbitant price and the price sets the credibility 

Edited April 22 by Mary229

[Sir PMP]

They were still selling the junk on the Koningsdam 2 weeks ago, not on Zaandam or Volendam.

[HamOp]

19 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

My first thought is this. I can absolutely see what HAL is doing. They are using groups to subsidize their cruises and make a profit. Do we want cruise fares to increase significantly or should HAL book group events on their cruises in lieu of increasing fares?

Same approach as the U.S. Postal system.

"Junk Mail" is used to subsidize the price of "First Class" mail.

Without the revenue from the junk, you'd be paying $2.50 for a first class stamp.

[TRLD]

This was probably one of Park Wests special cruises where they invite some of their best customers to "special" showings and often have one of the artists whose paintings they carry on board.

 

Most do not realize that many of the paintings they sell are giclee prints that they can print on demand and ship out. Not exactly unique, high value original art.

[Mary229]

23 minutes ago, TRLD said:

This was probably one of Park Wests special cruises where they invite some of their best customers to "special" showings and often have one of the artists whose paintings they carry on board.

 

Most do not realize that many of the paintings they sell are giclee prints that they can print on demand and ship out. Not exactly unique, high value original art.

I didn’t know there were enough people to justify a special sailings, as PT Barnum said……

 

after seeing the art recently on the K I realized many people have never visited an art museum 

[3rdGenCunarder]

14 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

I think if the Cruise line is charging me full fare for a cruise, I have an expectation that I will be able to use the amenities that come with the booking. If the cruise line decides that some group who may or may not have paid full fare should have exclusive use of amenities they just rented to me (in my full fare) I'm going to be looking for compensation. I really don't care that the contract says "we (the cruise line) can do whatever we want; all contracts are based on a "meeting of the minds" as it were and if at the time of my booking you said that amenities such as the Crows Nest or anytime dining are included in my fare. Then Bob's Book club shows up with 600 passengers (most likely with discounted fares) and I (full fare booked well in advance) is now excluded from these things, well they have broken that contract.

 

I've seen the Crows Nest blocked for an hour or two for a mariner event or a roll call meet & greet, but those are one-time events. And roll call events don't get the entire space. Even the art auctions are a half day once, maybe twice if the cruise is long. On one or two cruises, I've seen a lounge used for a travel agency's group. Again, a few hours one time. Okay, so no big deal. But EVRY DAY is outrageous. 

 

And your point about the fares is what makes it so annoying. You paid more than the group did, but you're getting less. 

 

I did a Great Lakes cruise last year. There was a Road Scholar group on board, and they had lectures in the lounge on sea days. It was a small ship with only one lounge and the bar area just off the lounge. Hearing the group stories here, I wondered how that was going to work out. American Queen did not close the lounge to other passengers, but instead allowed everyone to attend the lectures. Nobody in the Road Scholar group seemed to mind. 

[Sea42]

28 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

And your point about the fares is what makes it so annoying. You paid more than the group did, but you're getting less. 

Are you sure they are paying less? From what I've seen with other groups, participants pay higher fares to be a part of the group. It may be different though for a sales driven situation?

[3rdGenCunarder]

24 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

Are you sure they are paying less? From what I've seen with other groups, participants pay higher fares to be a part of the group. It may be different though for a sales driven situation?

 

I suspect the organizer is getting a discount price and then marking it up to cover their expenses. So the participants may be paying more, but that doesn't mean HAL is getting all of that money.

[SeaMatesNYC]

1 hour ago, Sea42 said:

Are you sure they are paying less? From what I've seen with other groups, participants pay higher fares to be a part of the group. It may be different though for a sales driven situation?

If it’s like the Effy Jewelry cruise, these may be big “art” spenders who received the cruise “free” based upon past purchases. 

[C 2 C]

Celebrity also lets Park West use their best lounges for auctions, blocking off the equivalent of the Crow's Nest during the entire day.  Complaints have never worked on X about this issue..

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, SeaMatesNYC said:

If it’s like the Effy Jewelry cruise, these may be big “art” spenders who received the cruise “free” based upon past purchases. 

I know they've "paid" for their ticket in art purchases, but if someone on a freebie gets something that I PAID for and can't have, that's gotta hurt. 

 

 

1 hour ago, C 2 C said:

Celebrity also lets Park West use their best lounges for auctions, blocking off the equivalent of the Crow's Nest during the entire day.  Complaints have never worked on X about this issue..

 

 

The lure of a sure large booking is too great to ignore. 

[cbr663]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:41 AM, MISTER 67 said:

HAL continues to make horrible decisions, who the hell is in charge in this disaster of a cruise line.

They lost our business about 19 months ago and not sure if we will ever sail with them again.

 

I agree.  The past several months CC threads and posts have shown that HAL has decidedly moved away from a passenger service focus.  We won't be returning until we see some changes.

[cbr663]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:17 PM, ChinaShrek said:

My first thought is this. I can absolutely see what HAL is doing. They are using groups to subsidize their cruises and make a profit. Do we want cruise fares to increase significantly or should HAL book group events on their cruises in lieu of increasing fares?

 

I think the opposite that we all pay for these groups and full charters.  We are now in a period of high demand for cruises.  When HAL accepts more and more large groups and full charters it is taking a huge number of cabins out of inventory.  This results in less supply trying to meet a high demand.  High demand with less supply will typically result in higher prices, not lower.  HAL will never limit the profit on a sailing in the manner that you suggested.  That is not how dynamic pricing works.