Kid bashing

[rdsqrl]

Don't scream if you get seated with us, unless one of the kids actually does something to provoke that (our son is in the biting stage, but his mom gets the brunt of it and no we don't tolerate it).

 

I thought your entire post was excellent, but I have to say that his part cracked me up: I'm just picturing your (adorable) son with his teeth bared, biting at anyone who walks by! I'm giggling. I would happily sit with you and point out chair hogs and cabin-door slammers for him to chomp on!

[Robb]

I commend you for rearing your children in the proper manner. However, many parents do not, thus causing may people a(including myself) to not want to be around kids. It is unfortunate, as is often the case, that many adults just lump kids into a "bad" category. You must admit that there are young people (who were not reared properly) who go over the edge, pushing othersss over the edge.

 

Please forgive us older geesers.

[Sailaway John]

It's not the kids at fault - IT'S THE PARENTS!

Their parents are most probably at the bar, gambling, etc. and don't know where their kids are or what they are doing - as long as the kids don't interrupt them!!!:eek:

[sailinglisa]

I found this post on another board here on CC.

 

"Last year we had a room real close to the elevators and kids kept knocking and beating on our door at all hours of the night and then would run to the elevator where another group of kids would be holding the elevator for them to escape. It was awful and scared my seven year old to death. They threw pizza at the door etc... all at 1am, 2am etc...then they would call the room and act like security and talk in funny accents all night. We had to unplug the phone. This happened 3 nights of the 7 night cruise. We finally had to have security come and sit by the door. Where were the parents of these kids??................................"

 

Why should anyone have to put up with this behavior on ANY type of vacation? Where are the parents? And how did they raise their little darlings? I bet their parents, if they had been confronted with what the little darlings did, would say "but not MY child!"

 

And from earlier on this thread........

"People who do not like children should move to adult only communities and go on senior only cruises. Children are our future and we need to have more. My neighbor called the police on the neighborhood kids because they were playing hide and go seek and went behind her a/c unit in the front yard. Move out lady. There are a lot of nursing homes she can move into around here."

 

Maybe the neighbor was scared to death of being sued if any of the little darlings were injured on her property! Even if you tell the kids not to come on your property, and you take all reasonable precautions; if someone comes on your property without your permission and is injured in anyway, you can be held responsible. What about teaching respect for other people and their belongings and property?

[sidari]

I may be wrong but dont these ships have CCTV in the Hallways / Corridors ?? if so how come if its true the ships company did nothing about it !!!! or did the poster fail to make a complaint??

[sailinglisa]

The poster did complain....that is why security was sitting outside their cabin! But is should never have come to that.....

[Toto2Kansas]

sailinglisa, How AWFUL. Although we have witnessed things similar onboard ships. Bored kids and teens roaming as they have nothing better to do late into the night.

 

I know that CCL has closed circuit monitoring of the hallways on most, if not all, of their ships. A friend of mine is a PI and was offered a chance onboard a Carnival Ship to see their monioring rooms. But I do not think Princess has gotten to this point yet.

 

It doesn't take too many instances like this to really get to you onboard. It can really upset you and others and make them very leary of cruising during any time when there will be hundreds of children onboard. You just never know what type of group you might run into, but this would be terrible. Sor sorry you had to put up with that on a long awaited cruise.

[we2cruze]

I commend you for rearing your children in the proper manner. However, many parents do not, thus causing may people a(including myself) to not want to be around kids. It is unfortunate, as is often the case, that many adults just lump kids into a "bad" category. You must admit that there are young people (who were not reared properly) who go over the edge, pushing othersss over the edge.

 

Please forgive us older geesers.

 

And to be fair... you must admit that there are adult people (who were not reared properly) who go over the edge, pushing others over the edge.

[sailinglisa]

Toto - fortunately that did not happen to me. I cut and pasted a post from another forum on CC. The OP's board name is Christmas. And you're right - it is absolutely horrible that this family was subjected to that type of behavior by the roaming bands of little darlings.

 

(I still haven't figured out how to quote a post on one forum and post it on another! LOL)

[karatemom2]

Well in defense of the OP you rarely see threads stereotyping other groups the way children are stereotyped in many threads.

 

I have yet to see a thread about "packs of newlyweds" or "roving bands of elderly" or worse yet "badly behaved, obnoxious doctors". I know it seems ridiculous when it's approached this way, but think how we parents feel when we see kids categorized and painted with a broad brush just because of a few bad apples. It's frustrating and I totally get what the OP is trying to point out. It is really unfair to stereotype ANY group, including children.

 

Toto - fortunately that did not happen to me. I cut and pasted a post from another forum on CC. The OP's board name is Christmas. And you're right - it is absolutely horrible that this family was subjected to that type of behavior by the roaming bands of little darlings.

 

(I still haven't figured out how to quote a post on one forum and post it on another! LOL)

 

And here is a post that exactly illustrates my point. :rolleyes:

[sailinglisa]

Karate Mom -I called them a "pack of little darlings" because that is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE! They were roaming around together (a pack) and engaging in terrible behavior!

 

You know, if it looks like and duck and sounds like a duck.....it's a duck!

[karatemom2]

Karate Mom -I called them a "pack of little darlings" because that is EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE! They were roaming around together (a pack) and engaging in terrible behavior!

 

You know, if it looks like and duck and sounds like a duck.....it's a duck!

 

Lots of negative labels could be applied to people you encounter cruising. Would that be acceptable just because you determined that the label applies?

 

I don't like to see name calling of any group, including children. I think the term "little darlings" to describe children in a sarcastic manner amounts to name calling, regardless of the situation.

 

I am not defending the behavior of the kids in questions, however, labels such as these perpetuate the antagonism towards children and families on cruises.

 

If an adult behaves badly, he or she is an adult behaving badly. These were an unsupervised group of kids behaving badly. It's fine to discourage bad behavior from any group, but personally I don't understand the need for labeling adults or children with deragatory terms.

[josetann]

Well, she's talking about a specific instance. If she said all children roam in packs terrorizing innocent bystanders, that'd be incorrect. Saying that there was an incident involving a group of misbehaving kids, that's another thing.

 

I could say that I had multiple cruises completely ruined by packs of old people running over me with their wheelchairs and scooters, and that'd be a factual statement (though I could inject a little humor into the story: "run over in the prime of life by packs of drunk elderly drivers"). If I said that all old people are horrible, I yelled in protest whenever I was seated with one, made snide remarks just because they were in an elevator with me, that's a whole different story.

 

By the way, no I haven't had any cruises ruined by any passengers (yet) and haven't been run over any intoxicated scooter-operators either. One must simply look both ways before crossing and keep an ear out too, those electric vehicles can sneak up on you at any time.

[josetann]

I was just thinking, perhaps there should be a poll to see what group of people tend to be most disruptive on a cruise.

 

1. Kids

 

2. Adults

 

3. Old People

 

Then you'd either have to explain how your cruise was ruined by that particular group, or we could have sub-categories.

 

1. Kids

a) Just kids in general, I'm old and grumpy!

b) Kids running around and being loud in places where kids are allowed to run around and be loud (outside on deck, in pool, etc.)

c) Kids pressing every button on an elevator

d) Kids just sitting around making me walk around them (be it in the middle of the floor, in an elevator, whatever)

e) Kids being truly malicious (banging on your door, throwing stuff overboard, bullying other passengers, etc.)

 

2. Adults

a) Just adults in general, I'm young and adults aren't cool/I'm really old and grumpy!

b) Adults running around and being loud in places where they're allowed

c) Adults pressing every button on an elevator (do you really think that doesn't happen?)

d) Adults sitting in the middle of halls or along corridors making me walk around them (maybe reading a book near a window, finally found a good wi-fi signal, etc.)

e) Adults just standing in the middle of a walkway, includes large groups of people who walk side-by-side instead of front-to-back and decide to walk very slowly and pointing out every little thing, thus sparking a discussion about said thing

f) Adults who have had way too much to drink. They tend to get loud, often lose articles of clothing, may party late into the night (maybe in the disco above your room, or maybe in the room right next to yours), etc.

g) Adults who complain loudly about every little thing. Whether it be in the dining room (ok lady, we know that they messed up your order), in one of the many lines (waiting to eat, tendering, whatever), etc.

h) Adults who just love to make others feel bad. The ones that make unprompted snide or rude comments

 

3. Old people

a) Just old people in general, they have no business being here!

b) Old people who hold up every single line, either because they're slow or have to ask a million questions

c) Old people who can't remember what floor they're going to and end up pressing every button on the elevator ("hrm, no it's not this floor, let's try the next")

d) Old people in scooters or wheelchairs who park in the middle of hallways, making me walk around them and praying they don't back over my feet

e) Old people smell

f) Old people who try to cover up the old people smell by applying copious amounts of perfume or cologne

g) Old people who are wasted before 10am. Lots of drunk drivers everywhere

h) Old people who think they're better than everyone else, cruises should be reserved only for those 70 and over, and who think it's awful to see any kids there (though they're allowed) and look down on anyone not dressed to the nines (even if the ship has a relaxed dress code, yes jeans are allowed on some ships some of the time for dinner).

 

Obviously anyone who voted "a" is an age-ist, "b" and they're just grumpy people. "c" is mostly just for humor, and if that really ruins your vacation, get a grip! "d" is just a little bit annoying, and there's no rhyme or reason for the rest (kids ends at "e", adults "e" is just annoying, and old people "e" is just to be funny).

 

BTW, this is just made in jest, I don't think it really should be a poll. Personally I've had none of these things ruin a trip (sure some of the stuff happened to me, not the worst things, but I did have my allergies act up due to 3f). Fact is, people from any walk of life could affect your cruise. Youngsters can misbehave just as old people can, and anyone in between. It's fine to try to avoid cruises with tons of kids or old people (kinda hard to avoid those in the middle), but if you run into a few regardless, don't ruin their cruise. And try to not let the little things ruin yours either. So you're stuck on an elevator with an 80-year old man who can't remember what floor he's going to, and you're going to the top floor. Just wait it out or jump out and run up the stairs/catch another elevator. So some people are blocking your way in the hallway and you can't get around, just wait or find another way around (or politely say "excuse me"). You see some kids throwing chairs overboard, take a picture if you can and report it to an officer. Most issues are pretty minor and you shouldn't let them ruin your cruise. Only if something really major happens (like the story of kids terrorizing a family above, or if someone gets drunk and punches you, etc.) should it really affect you.

[iancal]

I have only had to 'move' sundeck locations once...not because of kids but because of adults. Minding my own business on Mercury and 3 couples sat down and started to moan and groan about how bad the food was and really about just how bad everything else was on the ship. We thought it was wonderful cruise with probably the best food (other than Crystal) that we had experienced. I got up and left...they were ruining my vacation and I could not stand to listen to their nonsense

[BuzzF117]

I learned a valuble lesson traveling with kids. Don't push them to keep YOUR schedule. To many times ad Disney I saw parents pushing there screaming kids at 8pm at night because they wanted to see the entire park rather then realize that Jr won't remember riding the teacup ride for the 4th time that day. We did Disney with our kids when they were 9 and even then realized that going back to our room to let them whined down or go to the pool ment they got a second wind for later that night. While on the Crown in Feb I only saw one instance were an adult let there child sit and scream while in the Horizon court and I thought it was really odd to do since she could have taken him back to their cabin for a quick nap and they could have returned for a lite snack later on. Other then that one instance the kids I saw on the Crown in Feb were great. I did feel sorry for this one little boy whose mom made him wear a tux but he toughed it out.

[A Sixth?]

 

Anyone who hates children and animals can't be all bad.

 

 

:D

[sailinglisa]

Well, she's talking about a specific instance. If she said all children roam in packs terrorizing innocent bystanders, that'd be incorrect. Saying that there was an incident involving a group of misbehaving kids, that's another thing.

 

I could say that I had multiple cruises completely ruined by packs of old people running over me with their wheelchairs and scooters, and that'd be a factual statement (though I could inject a little humor into the story: "run over in the prime of life by packs of drunk elderly drivers"). If I said that all old people are horrible, I yelled in protest whenever I was seated with one, made snide remarks just because they were in an elevator with me, that's a whole different story.

 

By the way, no I haven't had any cruises ruined by any passengers (yet) and haven't been run over any intoxicated scooter-operators either. One must simply look both ways before crossing and keep an ear out too, those electric vehicles can sneak up on you at any time.

 

josetann - Thank You!! I really was talking about this ONE group of kids. I guess I have always called a spade, a spade. If someone or a group of someones is doing something wrong, I call it as I see it. If they are doing something right or good, I call it as I see that. I have never said all kids were bad.......I said this particular group of kids were acting in a way that deserved what I called them.

[Kineticoh20]

Im glad my thread has raised this much interest and comments. It's always good to discuss your differences. We will be on the April 9th 10 day on the Emerald so if you hate kids don't come! jk my 10 and 14 yr old are angels:rolleyes:

[mrbbear]

I agree with the first half of bambidrummer's post. If you don't like kids, there are plenty of senior communities. Just make sure the community is truly a senior-only community, just because only seniors live there now doesn't mean one might move out and a young family move in. Also don't try to move into a community and run out any young people there just so you can make it a senior community. Feel free to make an offer on their house so they'll sell and move out (and then you can make it senior-only), but don't take it too far (I haven't had any of this happen to me, but I've heard too many stories).

 

And your neighbor calling the police if that's all the kids really did was a little over the top, I agree. However she was in the right, and the kids need to learn to stay off her property if that's what she wants. If I didn't want kids tearing up my yard and had already said something to some parents about it (and nowadays, some parents would overreact and take it out on me instead of telling their kids they're not allowed in my yard) I might end up calling the police. Doesn't mean I should pack up and go to a nursing home. And I shouldn't be required to put up a fence to keep people out, though personally that's probably what I'd do instead of causing a scene with the cops.

Josetann,

 

Bravo! Good for you!

You're decided on the criteria that's defines how your cruising experiences are going to be. I guess that's really swell. Unfortunately, I see the problem as that thought process containing an overtone of 'in your face'. Namely, You have decided what the rules of the game are going to be--regardless of what anybody else thinks.

I'm sure that you have a nice little kid. Maybe, just maybe, not a lot of other people have the same appreciation or viewpoint of him that you do. So, other than the fact that you're already made the decisions, what does everybody else have to live by what is appropriate yo YOU?

[josetann]

Josetann,

 

Bravo! Good for you!

You're decided on the criteria that's defines how your cruising experiences are going to be. I guess that's really swell. Unfortunately, I see the problem as that thought process containing an overtone of 'in your face'. Namely, You have decided what the rules of the game are going to be--regardless of what anybody else thinks.

I'm sure that you have a nice little kid. Maybe, just maybe, not a lot of other people have the same appreciation or viewpoint of him that you do. So, other than the fact that you're already made the decisions, what does everybody else have to live by what is appropriate yo YOU?

 

Maybe you quoted the wrong part, but that just doesn't make sense. I didn't even mention my son in that quote. Regardless I'll try to respond.

 

No one has to live by what's appropriate for me. If I'm allowed to book him on a cruise, then why shouldn't I? If it's such a bad thing for kids to be on a certain cruise, then the cruise lines shouldn't let anyone who's under a certain age book passage. If you're upset that there's lots of kids on your cruises, then you need to either 1) Evaluate whether your feelings are justified (i.e. if you're upset at just seeing kids, or at little things like having multiple buttons pressed in the elevator, then try to lighten up just a bit) or 2) Try to book cruises that have a lower chance of having large numbers of kids onboard (shoot for anything over 7 days, and try cruises that don't go to the Caribbean). If you try to avoid kids but they still show up, just chill. Remember, they're more afraid of you than you are of them. Just don't get upset at them because they're young, get upset because they actually DID something to deserve it.

[mrbbear]

Maybe you quoted the wrong part, but that just doesn't make sense. I didn't even mention my son in that quote. Regardless I'll try to respond.

 

No one has to live by what's appropriate for me. If I'm allowed to book him on a cruise, then why shouldn't I? If it's such a bad thing for kids to be on a certain cruise, then the cruise lines shouldn't let anyone who's under a certain age book passage. If you're upset that there's lots of kids on your cruises, then you need to either 1) Evaluate whether your feelings are justified (i.e. if you're upset at just seeing kids, or at little things like having multiple buttons pressed in the elevator, then try to lighten up just a bit) or 2) Try to book cruises that have a lower chance of having large numbers of kids onboard (shoot for anything over 7 days, and try cruises that don't go to the Caribbean). If you try to avoid kids but they still show up, just chill. Remember, they're more afraid of you than you are of them. Just don't get upset at them because they're young, get upset because they actually DID something to deserve it.

 

 

Hardly know where to begin.

First of all, I was just trying to offer a different point of view---one that I think sometimes is totally discounted or grossly misunderstood by some parents. And, by the way, I do see by a lot of your comments (I believe, anyway) that you are one of the good parents...but perhaps you're one of the exceptions...

 

As far as whether or not you should be able to book passage for a child and/or whether or not a cruise line ought to make some age restrictions, particularly for young children, I think that those issues are very argueable. (and no, I have no idea how young "young" is)....

To be sure, a cruise line is a business and as such it ought to be free to establish and enforce whatever policies it wants to (within legal limits, of course). But being as it is, the basic nature of a cruise vessel requires, at least implicitly, that there needs to be a higher level of mutual appreciation and respect for others---simply because of the physical confines of the ship. Yes, most ships are big. And yes, I or anyone else can simply 'get up and move' if we feel "annoyed" by a child, by the wind, or by anything else. But, again very argueably, why should I? If there is just one set of parents that doesn't care enough to remove their over tired screaming little one from a dining area for no other reason than "they are entitled to be there", well isn't that making somewhat of an unfair statement to all of the other passengers? Sure they could just chill. But they, like those parents, paid their passage and they too are entitled to be there---but without the added entertainment.

I don't mind kids---well behaved kids. And not necessarily "well behaved" strictly by my standards. Kids, even young ones, can and ought to be able to conform to some levels of accepted social mores, especially on a cruise ship where there are more than likely to be a proliferation of adults. Otherwise they just don't belong in that type of an environment. Admittedly some children can handle this and some can't (or won't). Yes, I realize that it's up to the parents, BUT that responsibility starts the instant that they even consider this kind of a vacation. And I totally believe in family vacations. Did them for years with my own kids. But if there was ever the slightest doubt that I might be putting them in an environment that would be difficult for them to handle, then we simply passed. Our belief always was that is simply was not right to infringe on others' space simply to use such space as a proving ground for our own kids. From what I read in a lot of these boards I'm convinced that there are way too many parents who don't subscribe to that theory.

You're right. We shouldn't get upset at the kids. Maybe they don't know any better (then again, maybe some of them do). But, can we get upset, really upset, at the parents who DON'T care enough to ensure that their children don't ruin the cruise experience of others? Or, maybe the cruise lines could help by trying to instill some common sense to their booking criteria.

[MINIMAD]

We are a family of 13 on the Diamond out of Sydney in January 09.

4 generations from 86 years to 2 years. All in all ,7 adults,6 children. We are so excited about it as we have always only cruised on our own.

 

I believe our grand kids are well behaved and their parents have very good control over them. One child is autistic and will sometimes get a bit loud(only singing). Lets hope we don't run in to any problems with the GOF's.

[josetann]

Hardly know where to begin.

First of all, I was just trying to offer a different point of view---one that I think sometimes is totally discounted or grossly misunderstood by some parents.

....

 

I'll reply quickly, sorry I don't quote each part I'm replying to.

 

No, you shouldn't have to up and move because someone's trying to bother you, but some people are upset simply because some kids are playing in a pool where they are allowed to be. They're simply being where they are allowed, and doing what they're allowed to do. If you don't want to be around kids being loud, then go somewhere where loud kids aren't allowed (then if there's loud kids around, you can get upset). Find an adults-only pool, or spend time inside. If there's no adults-only pool and you really want a quiet afternoon in/around the pool, then you need to find a different cruise ship, sorry. Plus some people are upset just to see kids, even before anything's happened. It's just a fact of life, if kids are allowed in a place then you might bump into a few.

 

I agree, if kids can't handle a type of environment, it's best to not subject them to it. My son handles travel exceptionally well, he gets a little fussy if he's cooped up for hours on end, but we take several breaks when on a car trip. He didn't do as well as I had hoped on his first plane ride (we thought he'd sleep through it, we were wrong), but did fine on the second, so now we'll try to book flights during the day if available. He did very well on the last cruise (the one before, while he was just as well behaved, doesn't count since he was so young), so we have no reservation on taking him on another. We may not be so lucky with the next kid.

 

Last trip we took was a Trans-Atlantic, my little sister came (pre-teen) and I explained that there may not be many (if any) kids her age. She's very grown up for her age so I didn't think it would be a problem. There were a few kids in the kids' club (maybe 6, definitely under 12), she went there a few times, and didn't cause any mischief. We did know better than to take either of my youngest brothers though (one isn't quite mature enough, the other isn't even close).

[PescadoAmarillo]

We did know better than to take either of my youngest brothers though (one isn't quite mature enough, the other isn't even close).

Mine aren't even close either. They are 52 and 40.