Dear Princess, I get nervous every time you "tinker"...

I took my first Princess cruise in 2010, so not that long ago compared to all you old salts. But in those short 6 years, I've seen so much tinkering with some of my favorite ships that I am starting to get real nervous about one day the scales being tipped in the direction of "too much is too much". I just reached Elite, and even though I don't cruise Princess for the perks, I still enjoy the perks I get (over any other cruise line where I would get none at all) and I like the familiar feel I get when I take a Princess cruise. Being a bit of an analytical person, I made a list of things they have changed (what I can remember anyway...) to see what, if anything, affects my enjoyment. I'm also going to keep it to my favorite ships, the Crown, Emerald and Ruby, (henceforth to be referred to as THE GRAND THREE;)) because I refuse to sail on those three most recent monstrosities.

 

Disclaimer: of course everything I write here is my own opinion. I am always happy to read everyone's comments, for or against. That's what makes (NORTH-)America great (or does it have to be made great again...;)) but I digress...

 

Here goes:

 

1. The Sanctuary

 

I don't quite remember (isn't that awful, only 6 years ago...) but didn't you used to be able to enjoy a space at the front of the top outside deck without having to pay $20 or $40 extra??? That would be one where my enjoyment is restricted, since now I have to pay to use that Sanctuary, which I won't.

 

2. Share

 

Ugh... I don't get it personally. To me it's smoke and mirrors. BUT... it does not restrict or change my enjoyment since I never used to go to Sabbatini's. I am sure the 15 people a night who go to Share thoroughly enjoy their twice cooked duck and charcuterie plate. The MDR is fine for me, I can get a twice cooked steak anytime I want, even when I order it rare...:rolleyes:

 

3. Salty Dog and the redesign of the Wheelhouse Bar

 

Ooooh, that one upsets me a great deal. They removed a great deal of the comfy chairs and couches and replaced them with hard top tables and high chairs where you can sit and eat your $19 hamburger (if you are in a balcony cabin on a 10-day cruise, would that be a $5,019 hamburger???). That change is one of the most obvious examples of a pure money grab, which comes at the expense of what used to be a public space to enjoy. Funny thing, on my last cruise I noticed those tables were full, but mostly with people just having drinks. So would a staff member have to come over and ask you to vacate if someone suddenly showed up to try the $19 hamburger?

 

4. This new Club Class experience...

 

An obvious new money grab, but it will only affect my enjoyment if it causes me to wait longer for a table at ATD. Since I always ask to share a big table, I usually don't wait that long to begin with.

 

Side note, all this money grabbing effort on the part of Princess makes me feel like taking up a collection for them. They are obviously suffering financially...

 

5. And yet they still won't redesign the BUFFET... What the ...:mad:

 

Trips to the buffet on the GRAND THREE make me so anxious... Tight spaces, weaving around, people cutting, the tall scary Ukrainian girl at the entrance scowling at me to "refresh" my hands as she points to the Purel dispenser, one side almost always closed. You mean to tell me with all the changes they've made to the GRAND THREE recently, the Princess "brain-trust" can't agree on airing out the buffet space???

 

 

 

 

OK, admittedly I can only think of 5 things at this time...:o, but I started thinking about this earlier this week when I walked down to Canada Place (Vancouver - this is where I live now, need to change my CP) and saw the Island Princess. THAT ship above all others is a reminder of what Princess is capable of, in the wrong direction. That's why I get nervous when Princess tinkers with the ship designs. Granted, the new beds are nice, so it's not all bad.

 

Aaaah, nothing like a good rant. Switching to decaf now:cool:

Well, I agree on them changing the Wheelhouse Bar. I always enjoyed just sitting there and enjoying watching people dance and listening to the music. I only eat in the main dining room, the buffet, the pizza place or on the pool deck. I do NOT pay extra at the other dining places. As far as entering the buffet and having to wash your hands with the soap I commend Princess for doing this. It thoroughly upsets me when people don't want to do this or say they just washed their hands and get puffy about it or just try to walk away from it, I mean really, this is how everyone gets sick. USE YOUR HEAD ! THINK ! What do we tell our little kids when they are growing up? "Wash your hands and use the SOAP". Come on people get a grip! I don't care for all the changes Princess makes on their ships but it is what it is. I enjoy each and every cruise I take with Princess and I will stick with them. Enjoy your next one, I will !!

1. No. At least not since 2010.

 

2. SHARE is an optional specialty restaurant.

 

3. The Wheelhouse was redesigned on the Royal/Regal and personally, I think it's awful. If you want a nice dinner at the Crown Grill, it's extremely noisy and not a nice experience.

 

4. I prefer late Traditional dining.

 

5. You obviously haven't been on the Royal or Regal. The buffet is fabulous. The best at sea.

First time aboard a Princess ship was 1979, so I guess that puts us in the "Old Salts" category.

 

In our opinion, which is based on our experiences, we have seen the Princess standards decline steadily and monetary promotions escalate since they were purchased by Carnival. Sadly, while we considered the original P&O/Princess as an up market brand (almost luxury), we now consider them a mainstream line and we believe they are tailoring the product to compete with Carnival, RCCL, NCL, etc.

 

Our last cruise was the 2015 World Cruise and the condition of the ship was a disgrace, which was just one of many issues. We didn't get nervous, we just cancelled the subsequent cruises already booked, and the WC was our final cruise.

 

In every business "Change" is expected to remain competitive, we simply don't find this company's changes to our liking. The "Elite" benefits just aren't worth it, so we will spend additional funds for the level of service and ambiance we prefer.

SHARE and Salty Dog were fantastic. Twice cooked duck was perfection as was the beef cheek pie, yes we went twice we were so impressed with it v

Salty dog is not just a $19 burger it is much much more than that.

However I wouldn't expect anyone who has not actually been to either place to understand that because, well, they haven't been and just want to complain as it makes them feel good.

The Salty Dog tables on Ruby look much better than those on Crown, but I would have used the starboard seating section rather than the main walkpath - I don't like how those there to enjoy the music have to "run the gauntlet". I don't find the level of the music in Wheelhouse conducive to dining and convivial conversation, but I seriously disagree that it's just a $19 burger.

 

If the OP didn't go to Sabatini's and hasn't eaten at Share, I'm not quite sure what the issue is there? Share's well-executed on the Ruby and I've enjoyed it on two different cruises five months apart. They're tweaking and tuning aspects of the experience like the lighting and I think it's meeting expectations, at least on this vessel. I'm also quite sure it's been more than 15 guests per night.

1. The Sanctuary

I don't quite remember (isn't that awful, only 6 years ago...) but didn't you used to be able to enjoy a space at the front of the top outside deck without having to pay $20 or $40 extra??? That would be one where my enjoyment is restricted, since now I have to pay to use that Sanctuary, which I won't.

I don't know how it was on other ships. But at least on the Star Princess, before The Sanctuary that space was taken up by a jogging track and the basketball court. So it was free, but it wasn't filled with deck chairs:

 

 

1. Before the Sanctuary came about, that area on the older Grand-class ships was a very seldom used Sports Court. No public sundeck was lost when the Sanctuary became a standard feature.

 

2. Undoubtedly one of the reasons SHARE has come about was for Princess to see if they can justify a specialty restaurant at a higher price point as many other lines do. The fact that the addition of SHARE to Coral Princess was cancelled at the last minute could mean we already have the answer. But as you admit to never having dined at Sabatini's why are you taking this change so personally?

 

3. I too hate those high-top tables, refuse to sit at them at casual restaurants at home so I did blanch at first sight of the "upgraded" Wheelhouse Bar. So I took my bar time elsewhere. But if others like the high-top tables, good for them. And since Salty Dog service does not commence until 6 PM of course you saw drinkers sitting at those tables during happy hour and other times. (My only beef with Salty Dog was that the initial publicity seemed to indicate that the price would include food and drink pairings; as it does not we passed, but again why be bothered by its mere presence?)

 

4. The new Club Class consists of changing from MA to M1 all of twenty-eight mini suites so they can participate in the suite dining program. Yes the point of it all is to add enough passengers to the new Suite Dining scheme to justify its existence. And certainly the price will be higher, to the chagrin of those who normally book midship mini-suites but do not wish to be in the new higher category. Beyond that, how does the potential price increase for roughly fifty-six passengers so deeply affect everyone else on the ship? Whatever changes will be made to a small portion of one of the MDRs is pure speculation at this point.

 

5. Re the Horizon Court--this is where you need to branch out. Because as noted the Royal and Regal have state-of-the-art buffets, and the older Grand-class ships (Grand, Golden and Star) have had theirs renovated. Simply making a separate dessert/breads & pastry area on those three ships has made a world of difference. Perhaps Princess thinks that the ships with the separate HC/Cafe Caribe configurations do not need an upgrade yet; hopefully they will figure it out soon.

 

My first Princess cruise was in 1998. When the least expensive inside cabin for a 10 night cruise on the old Regal Princess was over $1800 per person. Move forward to 2011 and for a 10 night cruise on Star Princess the fare for an oceanview cabin was one-third of that. So Princess offering more for-fee options--as long as that is what they are, options--is not a "money grab" but a money saving for those of us who don't need features they don't partake of included in their cruise fare.

Edited May 27, 2016 by fishywood

 

My first Princess cruise was in 1998. When the least expensive inside cabin for a 10 night cruise on the old Regal Princess was over $1800 per person. Move forward to 2011 and for a 10 night cruise on Star Princess the fare for an oceanview cabin was one-third of that. So Princess offering more for-fee options--as long as that is what they are, options--is not a "money grab" but a money saving for those of us who don't need features they don't partake of included in their cruise fare.

 

My first Princess cruise was 1999. It was a 7 night Thanksgiving cruise on the Sea Princess to the Caribbean. Our inside was $750 pp. This was booked probably 8-10 months in advance, not a last minute special and during a holiday time.

 

IMO - a better value for what we received compared to now.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Coral

 

My first Princess cruise was in 1998. When the least expensive inside cabin for a 10 night cruise on the old Regal Princess was over $1800 per person. Move forward to 2011 and for a 10 night cruise on Star Princess the fare for an oceanview cabin was one-third of that. So Princess offering more for-fee options--as long as that is what they are, options--is not a "money grab" but a money saving for those of us who don't need features they don't partake of included in their cruise fare.

 

your comment was a GREAT addition to the conversation, thank you and TRULY had me thinking. Yes I often partake in the "add ons" but I would rather pay for the extras I WISH to partake in and skip those I do not. AND as you mentioned above ,if the cruises were that price now ... I would probably not be able to go on princess.

SHARE and Salty Dog were fantastic. Twice cooked duck was perfection as was the beef cheek pie, yes we went twice we were so impressed with it v

Salty dog is not just a $19 burger it is much much more than that.

However I wouldn't expect anyone who has not actually been to either place to understand that because, well, they haven't been and just want to complain as it makes them feel good.

 

I have been to Share and I just wasn't impressed. The food was ok - some hits and some misses, but not good enough to pay $40pp. We dined there for "free" as a suite perk on the first night and are glad that we tried it, but don't feel compelled to return.

 

We didn't try Salty Dog simply because we enjoyed the MDR and Crown Grill so much that we ran out of time. I do wish they would open it for lunch. We'll go in December, though - I hear very good things about it.

I believe the Sanctuary prices were increased in the first quarter of 2014. Prior to that it was 50% of the current pricing.

I took my first Princess cruise in 2010, so not that long ago compared to all you old salts. But in those short 6 years, I've seen so much tinkering with some of my favorite ships that I am starting to get real nervous about one day the scales being tipped in the direction of "too much is too much". I just reached Elite, and even though I don't cruise Princess for the perks, I still enjoy the perks I get (over any other cruise line where I would get none at all) and I like the familiar feel I get when I take a Princess cruise. Being a bit of an analytical person, I made a list of things they have changed (what I can remember anyway...) to see what, if anything, affects my enjoyment. I'm also going to keep it to my favorite ships, the Crown, Emerald and Ruby, (henceforth to be referred to as THE GRAND THREE;)) because I refuse to sail on those three most recent monstrosities.

 

Disclaimer: of course everything I write here is my own opinion. I am always happy to read everyone's comments, for or against. That's what makes (NORTH-)America great (or does it have to be made great again...;)) but I digress...

 

i

 

5. And yet they still won't redesign the BUFFET... What the ...:mad:

 

Trips to the buffet on the GRAND THREE make me so anxious... Tight spaces, weaving around, people cutting, the tall scary Ukrainian girl at the entrance scowling at me to "refresh" my hands as she points to the Purel dispenser, one side almost always closed. You mean to tell me with all the changes they've made to the GRAND THREE recently, the Princess "brain-trust" can't agree on airing out the buffet space???

 

 

Aaaah, nothing like a good rant. Switching to decaf now:cool:

 

They have redesigned the buffets on the "monstrosities." They are worth the trip.:D

 

My first Princess cruise was in 1998. When the least expensive inside cabin for a 10 night cruise on the old Regal Princess was over $1800 per person. Move forward to 2011 and for a 10 night cruise on Star Princess the fare for an oceanview cabin was one-third of that. So Princess offering more for-fee options--as long as that is what they are, options--is not a "money grab" but a money saving for those of us who don't need features they don't partake of included in their cruise fare.

 

My first Princess cruise was in 1979 and we didn't pay anywhere near that. A fair price for that era was $100 PP PD. I don't know what that would be in todays dollars but it's a bargain today to still be at $100 PP PD if you choose an inside cabin.We also had only 600 passengers. We had soft drinks included in the dining room and gourmet food served. We had midnight buffets and gala buffets. The experience was personalized and exceptional. Even when we tried Azamara which was a 600 pax ship we found it no where near the 'old" experience, it's gone unfortunately.

I have been to Share and I just wasn't impressed. The food was ok - some hits and some misses, but not good enough to pay $40pp. We dined there for "free" as a suite perk on the first night and are glad that we tried it, but don't feel compelled to return.

 

We didn't try Salty Dog simply because we enjoyed the MDR and Crown Grill so much that we ran out of time. I do wish they would open it for lunch. We'll go in December, though - I hear very good things about it.

 

go early in the cruise, you wont regret it. We did as we didn't go until the 2nd to last night and really wished we had gone earlier so that we had the time to do it again.

My first Princess cruise was in 1979 and we didn't pay anywhere near that. A fair price for that era was $100 PP PD. I don't know what that would be in todays dollars but it's a bargain today to still be at $100 PP PD if you choose an inside cabin.

This copy of a 1977/1978 brochure for Princess cruises to Mexico has prices that are about the same as today & I agree that cruising now is a much more affordable vacation and is why I can sail more often.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=245585&d=1348005243

 

I don't know the exact inflation rate since the 70s but everything has greatly increased except for the cruise fare which sometimes is even less expensive now. I wouldn't expect the cruise experience to be the same as our first cruise 30 years ago however it's still a great value for us & we still enjoy cruising whenever possible. :)

 

Yes I often partake in the "add ons" but I would rather pay for the extras I WISH to partake in and skip those I do not. AND as you mentioned above ,if the cruises were that price now ... I would probably not be able to go on princess.

I also prefer a more affordable lower cruise fare and to decide if any of the fee based options are things we want to purchase. On more all-inclusive cruise lines we might not use all of the options but would still be paying the same price as those who use all of the benefits.

This copy of a 1977/1978 brochure for Princess cruises to Mexico has prices that are about the same as today & I agree that cruising now is a much more affordable vacation and is why I can sail more often.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=245585&d=1348005243

 

That's a terrific brochure. Thanks for sharing it. I have to agree that overall, cruising is much cheaper now that when we first started back in 1991. We booked that first cruise on Carnival because the fares had finally gotten below $100 a day. We booked a 7 day cruise for $699. For comparison, our last cruise, 10 days on the Ruby Princess, was $599 with $50 PP shipboard credit. That came out to under $60 a day. Adding inflation into the mix, the Ruby cruise was quite a bit cheaper than the Carnival cruise.

Thank you for posting the brochure. About a year or two later, I was carpooling to work with the guy in charge of advertising for Sitmar (his wife worked in the same ad agency as me). He would often be working on his brohcures, etc., in the back seat if his wife or me were driving.

I have been to Share and I just wasn't impressed. The food was ok - some hits and some misses, but not good enough to pay $40pp. We dined there for "free" as a suite perk on the first night and are glad that we tried it, but don't feel compelled to return.

 

We didn't try Salty Dog simply because we enjoyed the MDR and Crown Grill so much that we ran out of time. I do wish they would open it for lunch. We'll go in December, though - I hear very good things about it.

 

That's $40 per meal (without any seconds) and don't forget the cost of the missed meal in the DR.... And possible an additional tip which would probably be expected.

Just thought I would throw my $0.02 worth in to this thread. Without trying to sound snarky, it sounds to me as if you don't like change. I will admit that I love the same three ships you love, but the Royal and Regal are nothing short of spectacular. The new class of ships do have a few shortfalls, but I think they have gotten a bad rap here on Cruise Critic. How can you judge something, based on the opinion of a few....as Dad always told me, you never know for certain, until you have tried. With that said, I offer the following:

 

1) The Sanctuary, as others have mentioned, replaced a seldom used space at the front of the ship. When it was first rolled out, I thought "is Princess crazy?" I visited it on our first sailing on the Ruby and thought it was crazy to spend money for a chair. Then, on a subsequent cruise, we booked it and have never looked back. It is one of our favorite places on the ship. You never have to fight chair hogs, and you are treated like kings and queens up there. My parents are very old school and would never think of spending the money for a chair....and then they did at my urging. Guess who books it every time now. I suggest you actually give it a try for a day and then render an opinion...you may be surprised.

 

2) Share...since you never ate at Sabatini's, I don't see why this is an issue for you. We were on the Emerald in March for a B2B, and were turned off by the menu. However, we went to an "open house" there where they had each dish on display, and the chef described each dish to us. We were intrigued enough to give it a try and guess what....we ate there again on the second leg. The food is delicious!

 

3) Salty Dog...I agree with you about them eating up precious real estate in the Wheelhouse, BUT...this is another "don't knock it until you try it". Everything we had was outstanding...in fact, it was the best burger I have EVER had. Needless to say, we ate there twice on our B2B in March.

 

4) Club Class....couldn't agree more. This is something that I doubt we will ever use. We have kept in contact with so many of the staff on the ships that we have been on, that we get "red carpet" service already and don't feel the need to pay Princess any more for that.

 

5) Buffet....as Pam said, Princess has perfected the buffet on the Royal and Regal. It is simply unbelievable how awesome it is. I suspect there is not enough space on the "Grand" ladies to incorporate the new layout like the Royal/Regal. I really think you are doing yourself a disservice by not giving the two new ships a try....just my opinion.

 

Bottom line....I respect your opinion and agree that Princess, since the Carnival purchase, is not the same. But, in any business, if you don't keep up with the competition, you disappear. Change can actually be good, and the fact that they are not forcing anyone to pay for these new features in the cruise fare, to me, is a great thing!

I believe the Sanctuary prices were increased in the first quarter of 2014. Prior to that it was 50% of the current pricing.

 

Affirmative the Sanctuary used to be $10 or $20 for 1/2 day or full day. For the first couple of years they would also negotiate a rate for the entire cruise. For a couple of cruises we negotiated $10 per sea day and we could use it unlimited.

That's a terrific brochure. Thanks for sharing it. I have to agree that overall, cruising is much cheaper now that when we first started back in 1991.

You're welcome...someone posted the brochure several years ago (I usually keep CC names to credit the OP but neglected to do it for this brochure :o) and I share it whenever the good old days & a declining experience are being discussed.

Thank you for posting the brochure. About a year or two later' date=' I was carpooling to work with the guy in charge of advertising for Sitmar (his wife worked in the same ad agency as me). He would often be working on his brohcures, etc., in the back seat if his wife or me were driving.[/quote']

You're welcome...our first Princess cruise was on Sitmar's Fairwind in 1988 & somewhere we have their last brochure before becoming part of Princess. The ship wasn't our favorite (renamed as the original Dawn Princess in 1989) but the white glove service & exceptional Italian cuisine were easily our favorite experiences.

 

Friends who sail more upscale cruise lines such as Oceania or luxury cruise lines such as Crystal tell us that we should join them. Those cruise lines may be closer to our Sitmar experience but then we'd be back to only one cruise every couple of years instead of a couple of cruises per year. ;)

Edited May 27, 2016 by Astro Flyer

1979 $100 =$328.01 today.

 

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1979-dollars-in-2016?amount=100

 

 

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fishywood Post no 8

“So Princess offering more for-fee options--as long as that is what they are, options--is not a "money grab" but a money saving for those of us who don't need features they don't partake of included in their cruise fare. “

Pam in CA Post no 3

“5. You obviously haven't been on the Royal or Regal. The buffet is fabulous. The best at sea.”

 

Agreeing with the above 2 quotes … but let’s not forget the following:

 

Oh2B@C

 

“Aaaah, nothing like a good rant. Switching to decaf now » ;)

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2016 by Montrealais

 

5. You obviously haven't been on the Royal or Regal. The buffet is fabulous. The best at sea.

 

It obviously took them long enough. Many of the other ships on other lines I sailed on in early 2000's had a far better design than Princess ever had (until Royal Princess).

 

This is one area where they definitely did not listen to complaints from passengers for years. But I guess they really didn't have new ship designs during that time either which would have allowed it.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Coral