What's the use of a muster drill if it takes place in a restaurant?

From Wikipedia I gather that there are two major things to be learned during muster drill: to learn where to go in case of an emergency and how to use your life vest.

On two different cruises I learned two completely different things during muster drill. HAL learned me where to go when the alarm was sounded by forcing me to learn the route and stand next to my lifeboat. My Celebrity cruise took me to a restaurant to tell me how to use a lifevest.

I wonder why the industry got stricter rules about when muster drill should take place after Costa Concordia, while at the same time HAL and Celebrity use the drill for very different things. HAL learns "this way". Celebrity learns "there's a light on your lifevest".

Besides a rule "you must have a muster drill for passengers", there should be something saying what passengers should actually learn?

If "muscle memory" to find your lifeboat is not that important (Celebrity), or if the whistle on a lifevest is not that important (HAL), the CD could as well explain the rules of Bingo and say it's a "muster drill".

From Wikipedia I gather that there are two major things to be learned during muster drill: to learn where to go in case of an emergency and how to use your life vest.

 

On two different cruises I learned two completely different things during muster drill. HAL learned me where to go when the alarm was sounded by forcing me to learn the route and stand next to my lifeboat. My Celebrity cruise took me to a restaurant to tell me how to use a lifevest.

 

I wonder why the industry got stricter rules about when muster drill should take place after Costa Concordia, while at the same time HAL and Celebrity use the drill for very different things. HAL learns "this way". Celebrity learns "there's a light on your lifevest".

 

Besides a rule "you must have a muster drill for passengers", there should be something saying what passengers should actually learn?

 

If "muscle memory" to find your lifeboat is not that important (Celebrity), or if the whistle on a lifevest is not that important (HAL), the CD could as well explain the rules of Bingo and say it's a "muster drill".

Yes, the muster drill is for "training" in what to do in an emergency. Whether you muster on deck, or inside, it's the same thing. In a real emergency, when you check in at your muster location, you will be directed what to do. You will either be escorted to "your" lifeboat. Or another one, depending if yours is actually reachable, or not. Checking in at the muster location also lets the ship know that you are accounted for. If you just randomly stop at some other lifeboat, you may be among the "missing".

From Wikipedia I gather that there are two major things to be learned during muster drill: to learn where to go in case of an emergency and how to use your life vest.

 

On two different cruises I learned two completely different things during muster drill. HAL learned me where to go when the alarm was sounded by forcing me to learn the route and stand next to my lifeboat. My Celebrity cruise took me to a restaurant to tell me how to use a lifevest.

 

I wonder why the industry got stricter rules about when muster drill should take place after Costa Concordia, while at the same time HAL and Celebrity use the drill for very different things. HAL learns "this way". Celebrity learns "there's a light on your lifevest".

 

Besides a rule "you must have a muster drill for passengers", there should be something saying what passengers should actually learn?

 

If "muscle memory" to find your lifeboat is not that important (Celebrity), or if the whistle on a lifevest is not that important (HAL), the CD could as well explain the rules of Bingo and say it's a "muster drill".

The purpose of the muster/emergency drill is do a head count and account for everybody aboard, passengers and crew. And report anyone missing.

Your assigned muster/emergency station may not be on deck because it would be physically impossible to have everyone out there at the same time on a lot of ships.

Just because you are mustered does not mean you are going to abandon ship!

It could be because of a possible man overboard, flooding, fire etc.

Once the situation of why you were mustered is resolved or *IF* the decision is made to abandon ship, those already on deck will be loaded into the lifeboats.

Those is restaurants or lounges or theaters will be led to the lifeboats and also loaded.

This is all depending on the ship design and lifeboat capacities.

ex techie

Different lines have developed different procedures for 'seven shorts and a long' (general alarm). That signal is not a signal to get in the lifeboats. That alarm tells you to go to the muster station (wherever that might be). The lines that have indoor musters will use a room near the lifeboats. In the event you need to evacuate, you would be directed to an appropriate lifeboat. Note that the lifeboat you are 'assigned' to may not be accessible (e.g. that part of the ship is on fire). Which is a better muster location can be debated (and no doubt will be on this thread). I just pay attention to where I'm supposed to be on whatever ship I'm on.

There is a multiple purpose: to get a head count so all passengers are accounted for; to get passengers together so they can be more efficiently directed to take whatever action is indicated by whatever emergency might exist; and to get the notion in passengers' minds that an emergency could take place and that, if it does, an orderly response is better than chaos.

I do agree that assembling by the assigned lifeboat does serve the purpose of instructing passengers how to get there - and it does set a more serious tone than sitting in the theatre. Also, on HAL the presence of uniformed crewmen at the lifeboat station lends a more serious tone than having a dancer talk about the life jacket -- as has happened on both Princess and Celebrity.

Most cruises that I've been on that have mustard drill inside, that's where your station is if there is an emergency.

Even though some ships muster inside, I feel it's my personal responsibility to take some time to walk around the exterior promenade deck to learn where you would board the life boats and where the other raft canisters are located.

When we mustered after the boiler expolsion on the SS Norway, it was inside the International Lounge. Although we were at the dock in Miami, we donned our lifevests. There was still chaos among some passengers, with some people hyperventilating and a few passing out. There was no AC and only minimal emergency lights.

I can only imagine the chaos if we were at sea in the middle of the night. And as some have pointed out, if the ship is listing, perhaps one side is not suitable to muster outside, so it makes more sense to gather at a common point inside.

I would also expect the interior locations are the result of passengers complaining about having to stand outside in the heat for 20 minutes.

Am I right in thinking the OP is not asking, "Why there are different locations for muster?" but rather "Is there a standard set of rules, i.e. list of 'facts' to be taught/explained at a muster drill that should be uniformly applied on all cruise ships?" If that is the question, the answer, from OP's own experience as well as mine, is "more or less, yes." I learned similar but not identical facts/instructions at each muster drill on each ship I've been on.

What I will say, not because this is exactly the OP's question, but because I think it is worth repeating: I paid close attention to everything that was said at the muster drill after the Costa Concordia went down. Before that, I was thoughtless and impatient during muster drill, looking at it as a bit of a joke. Not any more!

Perhaps there are some Coasties on these boards who can shed some light on the uniformity (or lack thereof ) of information disseminated during muster drills, at least on ships departing from U.S. ports.

Hi There

Just to be clear, while a drill may be held in a bar area or a theatre, that may not be your muster station.

If it wasn't clearly mentioned during the drill, you can check for yourself. It would be posted on a chart on your cabin door.

If there is an emergency, just remember...try to remain calm and follow direction of the ships' crew.

The muster drills and muster stations on Princess are in public areas (lounges, restaurants, theater) on the same deck as the life boats. We did an outdoor muster on RCI 15 years ago and I almost passed out from the heat and the crowds. Plus I couldn't hear or see anything. I don't think I could do that at my current age but hopefully their process has improved. I appreciate the indoor area where just about everyone has a seat (unless you show up late) and can easily hear the recorded directions and easily see the staff scattered throughout the room demonstrate putting on the life jacket. Mustering on an open deck around the life boats for the drill and/or as an official muster station seems to be an invitation to chaos.

Having sailed on multiple cruise lines I have seen mustering done in a variety of ways and I have come to appreciate the concept of the inside stations as a controlled site for passengers to be held in an emergency. Luckily I have never had to muster for an emergency on any of my 18 cruises. However I recognize that mustering occurs most commonly for reasons that do not lead to abandoning ship or the need for lifeboats. I do not have exact figures but the most common muster situation (other than drill) is a fire on board. In that event the intent is to identify the passengers, keep them in a controlled location and keep them away from the danger zone.

Even if the ship ultimately required abandoning, the inside stations are theoretically designed to facilitate movement to the lifeboats. I doubt anything works perfectly if 3000-4000 people are in a panic situation but standing outside for an hour or two is less than desirable than sitting in a lounge until the situation is clarified. That's at best my opinion.

It doesn't matter the location of muster drill. Most people are there just to go through the motion or have their brains already turn to vacation mode. Doubt many would remember what they are told if the real alarm sounds in the middle of the night.

It doesn't matter the location of muster drill. Most people are there just to go through the motion or have their brains already turn to vacation mode. Doubt many would remember what they are told if the real alarm sounds in the middle of the night.

Yes. Just look around at the next drill you attend.

See how many have had 2-3 DOD,s before the drill, or are asleep, or are talking to the neighbor, or are playing on an electronic de vice. Then when the alarm sounds consider how many of them will be standing in the hallway hollering what do I do?

Bob

If the only thing people take away from the muster drill is to get their life jackets, (and, if advised, warm clothing and medication), if it's safe to do so, and proceed to where the crew tells them to go, that seems like the most important bit to me. Your muster station might be outside, but what if it's the middle of the night, with a howling gale, lashing rain and huge waves? Your "muscle memory" might want to take you onto the open deck by the lifeboats, but the crew might not!

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the muster station is for the drill and actual event. By having a group meet at a location like the theater, they can check you in, then when they have enough to fill a life boat, that group of passengers will be led to one.

I like this idea better than being assigned to a specific boat with a specific group of people. You could be waiting around on a sinking ship because one of your assigned group did not show up.

Just get me on the first boat leaving. :eek:

Don

From Wikipedia I gather that there are two major things to be learned during muster drill: to learn where to go in case of an emergency and how to use your life vest.

 

On two different cruises I learned two completely different things during muster drill. HAL learned me where to go when the alarm was sounded by forcing me to learn the route and stand next to my lifeboat. My Celebrity cruise took me to a restaurant to tell me how to use a lifevest.

 

I wonder why the industry got stricter rules about when muster drill should take place after Costa Concordia, while at the same time HAL and Celebrity use the drill for very different things. HAL learns "this way". Celebrity learns "there's a light on your lifevest".

 

Besides a rule "you must have a muster drill for passengers", there should be something saying what passengers should actually learn?

 

If "muscle memory" to find your lifeboat is not that important (Celebrity), or if the whistle on a lifevest is not that important (HAL), the CD could as well explain the rules of Bingo and say it's a "muster drill".

First off, as with a lot of things on Wikipedia, the information given is misleading, incomplete, or incorrect.

As others have posted above, and I've posted repeatedly, the purpose of the muster drill, and the muster in an emergency, has nothing to do with lifeboats or evacuating the ship. The passenger muster is to remove all the passengers from all over the ship and place them in known, controlled locations, away from whatever emergency is happening, and to account for them all. This removes the passengers from danger and also assists the emergency teams by not having them have to do room by room searches for passengers within the emergency area, and allows them to concentrate on dealing with the emergency.

So, the main purpose of the muster drill is to teach you where to go in an emergency, not necessarily in an evacuation. That is the muscle memory you need to take away from the muster drill. There have been many more actual musters of passengers in actual emergencies then there have been lifeboat evacuations. When you think of muster drill, forget about the boats. Bluntly, you have three responsibilites as a passenger in an emergency: go to your muster station, shut up, and listen to instructions.

Newer ships have reduced the size of the promenade decks by the lifeboats, particularly in relation to the number of passengers onboard, so that mustering at the boats for all passengers is either not physically possible, or not allowable by design rules because there would not be sufficient space to move around the muster locations. The lines have done this to increase the interior volume of the ships (revenue generating space) at the expense of the promenade (non-revenue generating space). Therefore, these ships have had to move their muster locations to indoor venues. These locations have to be determined and designed, from the beginning, using crowd management paradigms for proper volume, ingress and egress sizes and numbers, distance to the boats, and other requirements.

The only other requirement that SOLAS places on passenger ships as far as training of the passengers goes is the instruction on how to don a lifejacket. This does not even need to be part of the muster drill, it is allowable to use a repeating loop on the TV showing the procedure.

Am I right in thinking the OP is not asking, "Why there are different locations for muster?" but rather "Is there a standard set of rules, i.e. list of 'facts' to be taught/explained at a muster drill that should be uniformly applied on all cruise ships?" If that is the question, the answer, from OP's own experience as well as mine, is "more or less, yes." I learned similar but not identical facts/instructions at each muster drill on each ship I've been on.

 

What I will say, not because this is exactly the OP's question, but because I think it is worth repeating: I paid close attention to everything that was said at the muster drill after the Costa Concordia went down. Before that, I was thoughtless and impatient during muster drill, looking at it as a bit of a joke. Not any more!

 

Perhaps there are some Coasties on these boards who can shed some light on the uniformity (or lack thereof ) of information disseminated during muster drills, at least on ships departing from U.S. ports.

I applaud your change in attitude towards safety at sea. However, I believe you are under the common misconception that the USCG has any special jurisdiction over ships that sail from US ports. This is not the case. Since the ships are foreign flag, the USCG does not have flag state jurisdiction over the ship, but only port state jurisdiction. Port states can only ensure that foreign ships in their ports meet SOLAS requirements, the international standards, which is what the USCG does when they hold the drills for crews on foreign flag cruise ships. A flag state can pass stricter laws and regulations, which the USCG has, for ships that fly their flag, but cannot enforce those stricter laws and regulations on foreign ships.

Yes. Just look around at the next drill you attend.

 

See how many have had 2-3 DOD,s before the drill, or are asleep, or are talking to the neighbor, or are playing on an electronic de vice. Then when the alarm sounds consider how many of them will be standing in the hallway hollering what do I do?

 

Bob

Very true. I was on the Star when she burned. It was a very awakening experience to exit our cabin, smell smoke and find a closed fire door. One man stuck his head out of his cabin and asked, "What do I do?". I sent him back in for pants. I waited 30 seconds and then self-preservation took over.

Mustering in the Main Lounge was very orderly with only a few issues. The large group was somewhat cumbersome to the Muster Supervisor. We had several passengers that felt they were being inconvenienced unnecessarily. Things got serious with the announcement that lifeboats were being launched. Fortunately, the fire was contained before that happened. All this was during the first 30 minutes. The next 6 hours were very boring except for the woman that wouldn't answer to roll-call. She finally answered but explained that she got married on the first day of the cruise. We needed the comic relief.

On my Norwegian cruise to the North Cape and beyond next March, in an emergency I would rather muster in a restaurant rather than next to the lifeboat - especially if it's going to be three or fours before the lifeboats may be needed. But that's just a personal preference. ;)

15 years ago our muster drill was outside on deck in the middle of a Florida summer facing the sun. Elderly folks were passing out and young children crying. We have not sailed Disney since (love the ship), but I hope they changed the muster location.

Burt

Yes. Just look around at the next drill you attend.

 

 

 

See how many have had 2-3 DOD,s before the drill, or are asleep, or are talking to the neighbor, or are playing on an electronic de vice. Then when the alarm sounds consider how many of them will be standing in the hallway hollering what do I do?

 

 

 

Bob

On our last cruise, they were very nasty (and rightfully so) with people who had their phones out.

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I find it much easier to listen seated in a restaurant or lounge than standing shoulder to shoulder in lines on deck in the hot sun. We've done both many times and all I want to do during the outside muster is get away from there.

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I have been to a couple of muster drills where we were kept standing in the sun for an extra 10 minutes while the Cruise Director went over the activities planned for the afternoon and evening! I can only assume he was comfortable in an air-conditioned office somewhere while we were all miserable and about to overheat.

First off, as with a lot of things on Wikipedia, the information given is misleading, incomplete, or incorrect.

 

Bluntly, you have three responsibilites as a passenger in an emergency: go to your muster station, shut up, and listen to instructions.

 

So, the main purpose of the muster drill is to teach you where to go in an emergency, not necessarily in an evacuation.

 

The only other requirement that SOLAS places on passenger ships as far as training of the passengers goes is the instruction on how to don a lifejacket. This does not even need to be part of the muster drill, it is allowable to use a repeating loop on the TV showing the procedure.

Thank you once again. I thought the Wikipedia article was quite convincing by telling me what I thought I knew. Ship might do guests a service by telling the purpose of muster drill.

Does SOLAS say everone should have their muster drill at the same time? (the word muster would imply that a bit) I can imagine that people who pay thousands/night for a luxury suite would like their butler to explain the lifejacket at a convenient time in private, while the muster part would be a walk to the restaurant they'd be visiting that night anyway.

When I'm on a ship I'll take the shut up and listen very seriously, I promise :D

I applaud your change in attitude towards safety at sea. However, I believe you are under the common misconception that the USCG has any special jurisdiction over ships that sail from US ports. This is not the case. Since the ships are foreign flag, the USCG does not have flag state jurisdiction over the ship, but only port state jurisdiction. Port states can only ensure that foreign ships in their ports meet SOLAS requirements, the international standards, which is what the USCG does when they hold the drills for crews on foreign flag cruise ships. A flag state can pass stricter laws and regulations, which the USCG has, for ships that fly their flag, but cannot enforce those stricter laws and regulations on foreign ships.

Thanks for your insight. I don't think I had any misconception: I knew everything you explained, except I had forgotten the acronym for the international requirements -- SOLAS -- which you kindly offered.

My call for Coasties to add their insight to the discussion was for the purpose of letting us know what the procedure is when the Coast Guard "holds the drills for crews on foreign flag cruise ships." I could attempt to read through SOLAS, but why do it myself when I can count on someone on CC to have already done it? :o