Too much negativity - let's have some positive thoughts.

thank you Hank for the positive feedback. Makes me fell better, as my Hubby wants this cruise. We do have a balcony, but on Rivera Deck (11) and have fixed dinning, we also got the Beverage package included in our price.

We have never done a beverage package on Princess (its a fairly new addition to their policies). We recently booked a 35 day Golden Princess cruise (from Singapore to Vancouver) for which there were no decent promotions. Much of that cruise was already booked and we had to scramble to get a cabin. If they later offer a decent promo with the drink package...we will likely add it to our booking. One interesting facet of Princess is that their wine and drinks are actually pretty reasonably priced...when compared to some other lines (including X). But now that they have started with the drink packages...some of us have speculated that they will increase drink prices.

So, in the last few weeks we have booked 56 new cruise days...and not a single day with X. Three or four years ago all those days might well have been with X. And DW reminded me that our issues with Celebrity "cut backs" started with a few very little things (the little things do matter) that were minor annoyances. We are still hoping that our upcoming 21 day X cruise will show us the error of our ways....but recent posts on CC have not given us reason to be optimistic.

Hank

I like Celebrity. I've got future cruises booked. However I don't like the trend I'm seeing among the non-luxury cruise lines.

 

I think it's safe to say that many of us are old enough to remember multiple instances of industries where service erosion has destroyed the experience. This hasn't happened to the premium cruise lines yet, but I think some of us fear that it could.

 

Going way back.... remember when you used to pull into the service station to buy gas? You stayed in your car. They filled your tank, washed your windshield, checked your oil level and tire pressure. The service guy probably recognized you and knew your name. Slowly over time that level of service eroded and finally vanished.

 

More recently, consider the airline industry. Traveling was special. People even dressed up for it. Food was served on most flights over a few hours. Seats had leg room. You could actually cross your legs. In-flight entertainment was free. They had special in-cabin storage for garment bags. They had racks with a selection of magazines. There were ample rest rooms. Remember when the 747 came out and they had a bar upstairs you could visit in-flight? Over time this level of service has eroded (I should say - evaporated). Today you are jammed into tight seats, have to pay for checked bags (sometimes even carry-ons), don't get fed (or are charged for really poor quality food), have to pay if you want to reserve a seat, etc.

 

There are many other examples of service erosion that have left some of us oldsters fondly remembering days past. We'd just hate to see that happen to the cruise industry.

 

Yes, you can fly business class, you used to be able to pay more for full service gas, and you can cruise on a luxury line. However, I think in many cases the concern is, service levels that you used to be able to afford are no longer available or no longer affordable. Some of us see the beginnings of this in the cruise industry. So we complain when things like the Mast grill go from free to extra charge. Not because we can't afford to pay $10 for a burger if we want one, but because we see this as another step in chipping away the cruise experience we so much love. Will service erosion ever progress to the point where we are left with the choice between luxury lines we can't afford, or mainstream lines that we don't like? I hope not, but don't blame me for pointing out the signs along the way.

Well Done!

Exactly our opinion also! (a Boomer and pre-Boomer couple)

Cruises are not what they used to be 20 years ago. Service is much worse, food is much worse. BUT....it is still better than not cruising!

I'll continue an average of a cruise every other year so long a there are ships the size of M Class or smaller. I've never been on a megaship and never want to be.

And.of course, so long and health and finances allow.

We have never done a beverage package on Princess (its a fairly new addition to their policies). We recently booked a 35 day Golden Princess cruise (from Singapore to Vancouver) for which there were no decent promotions. Much of that cruise was already booked and we had to scramble to get a cabin. If they later offer a decent promo with the drink package...we will likely add it to our booking. One interesting facet of Princess is that their wine and drinks are actually pretty reasonably priced...when compared to some other lines (including X). But now that they have started with the drink packages...some of us have speculated that they will increase drink prices.

 

So, in the last few weeks we have booked 56 new cruise days...and not a single day with X. Three or four years ago all those days might well have been with X. And DW reminded me that our issues with Celebrity "cut backs" started with a few very little things (the little things do matter) that were minor annoyances. We are still hoping that our upcoming 21 day X cruise will show us the error of our ways....but recent posts on CC have not given us reason to be optimistic.

 

Hank

We were once huge fans of Celebrity and RCL. Over the last five years we've done 154 days on Celebrity, 46 days on RCL, and 14 on HAL. Now nothing. We still think that Celebrity is the best option, but sometimes the best isn't good enough. Staying home gets easier every single day.

Thanks, Jim, for this discussion. Out of the 2 dozen cruises we've been on most have been with Celebrity. I'm not sure how many cruise days we've sailed, but few have NOT been enjoyable. I'm even counting our 1 Carnival cruise (our first cruise).

I've been on 25 cruises, soon to be 26. 15 so far have been with Celebrity. In a few days I will head to Alaska on a cruisetour with Celebrity on Millie. I have 2 other cruises booked with Celebrity.

In all fairness over the years all cruise lines have changed. What was isn't, and what is now, probably won't be soon.

It's how the cruise lines have evolved.

I hope that Celebrity continues to outshine the others and as long as they take good care of me, I'll cruise with them again and again.

Charlie

I view every cruise as a gift: first my health is still good at my age and secondly that I had the ability to intensively save for retirement and to travel. Life of course does have some pain too. I lost my best traveling friend last December, after 29 cruises together, but I know he would want me to continue on, even as just solo. So, this year is Windstar in August and Celebrity in December. Next year is Viking Ocean in January, Celebrity in April and September. :)

I view every cruise as a gift: first my health is still good at my age and secondly that I had the ability to intensively save for retirement and to travel. Life of course does have some pain too. I lost my best traveling friend last December, after 29 cruises together, but I know he would want me to continue on, even as just solo. So, this year is Windstar in August and Celebrity in December. Next year is Viking Ocean in January, Celebrity in April and September. :)

This is so true. Sorry to hear of your loss, but love your attitude. DW and I had to cancel an 'active' trip this spring because of a sudden health issue. We are so glad that as we get deeper into our golden years cruising will remain an available activity for a long time [shore excursions can be tailored to present mobility level; doctor on board]. Of course it's good to be able to have a large enough cabin that even if confined to it, life would be good!

I've found, with each successive cruise, we need less space. Having more room is nice, but we've been getting more efficient packing and with our space.

There are none, higher $$$ and lower quality.

Ahhh, so you are going to take that Emerald Princess Cruise...(it is a great itinerary). We have a few hundred days on Princess and you will find somethings similar to Celebrity and others things not! If you are booking a balcony cabin...try and get a balcony that is on the Caribe Deck (they are larger...and about half covered and half in the open. What we don't like about Princess is that they have 3 separate MDRs (all just about identical in size). One is dedicated to fixed dining...one is dedicated to open dining...and the third is usually used for both (fixed until about 7:30 and then open dining). We sometimes find this a pain in the behind. We also think that the Emerald's main theater is a bit small...so if you eat early you will need to go the show at least 20 min early to get a seat (not an issue if you go to the show intended for later diners). If the shows are well attended the CD might have a third show (production shows) performed to ease the seating issues.

 

One of our favorite spots on the Emerald (and other Grand and Royal Class ships) is the International Cafe...which is open 24/7. DW love to hang out at this venue where we can sip coffee, eat snacks (they have donuts in the morning....small things at lunch, etc) and people watch in the atrium. Years ago, Princess was one of our favorite lines..but then did too many cut-backs...so we left them for other lines. About 4 years ago we ventured back to Princess and thought, they are back! We have since been on 3 more Princess cruises with few complaints (other then the dining hassles).

 

Hank

To each his own. Instead of nickel and dining passengers, Princess decided to build smaller balconies on their ships. It is uncomfortable for one person to be out there (no leg room) let alone two. They had eliminated several floors from their main central stair case to save money (maybe they have since put them back) and it made for every elevator ride to be crowded and some were full when they got to your deck. The Carnival Corp bean counters put their stamp on that Royal Class at Princess. We will cruise Princess again, but only on ships like the Ruby/Emerald or the medium sized ships that can do the better itineraries. I hope Princess can back to those huge balconies and good prices on the mini-suites. In the end, we care more about the product and don't mind paying supplemental charges along the way because you can't pay a small fee to make a tiny balcony comfortable.

Our first cruise was by accident to be Celebrity and we loved it. We were very impressed and have been with Celebrity for 7 cruises. We have another booked for fall 2018, but will change it if the price does not come down. We wanted to go to Tahiti and didn't want to fly, so Princess has a round trip out of LA that we have a deposit on. I have second thoughts only because we know Celebrity and we will be 28 nights on Princess (what if we hate it). But I will give it a try. My driving force for cruising is price and designation. We have always had wonderful service and hard working people treating and acting like I matter. We have had some problems, but Celebrity has always come through to resolve the problem to our satisfaction. I don't mind the negativity, but do not like the people that criticize someone for asking a question or make it sound like it was a stupid question. I assumed this board was here to ask and hopefully get helpful information.

I'm an avid Celebrity cruiser and fan. I've been on 26 X cruises and have more booked. However, I'm going to try Princess in October. I'll post when we get back and let you know what I think.! We'll be on for 14 days.

I've tried a few others - RCL was OK, didn't care for NCL at all, Holland was OK but those trips were charters so I don't feel they give you a real picture, and I was not impressed AT ALL with the food on Silversea but enjoyed the yacht feel (also not much to do on board). Celebrity still reigns in my book.

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Perhaps what helps drive our own "negativity" (which we call realism) is the fact that we have cruised on 14 different lines (more then 60 different ships)....and so have a pretty good basis of comparison. Celebrity used to be at the top of our list for mass market cruise lines....but has tumbled (badly) in the past 3 years. We still think that Celebrity has a good product....but we used to think it was much better then "very good." And now, when coupled with the price increases in the past 3 years....we now think that several other mass market lines are giving more quality for the price.

 

As to the OP's comments, we would just submit that many folks love Holiday Inns....because they have never tried a Hilton, Ritz, etc. Sometimes its better not to know what you are missing....but not all of us see it that way.

 

As to the basic attitude of posts, we like to read as much as possible..be it positive, negative, neutral, etc. The trends (among posts) that we see here on CC do help drive our decision making on future cruises. Over the years (and we go back way before there was even a CC....and most of us had to rely on AOL or Prodigy) it is pretty easy to spot trends (both positive and negative) by reading with an open mind. So where have we seen positive trends on CC? Oceania ( a line that we have yet to cruise) does seem to get pretty high marks...although folks do admit to a problem with their entertainment. To us, the most interesting trends have been on the MSC board over the past couple of years. In fact, based on many posts we have taken the plunge and booked a 21 day MSC Cruise (in the Yacht Club). This booking would have normally been a 21 day Celebrity booking...but we can no longer ignore what we think is happening to Celebrity (and its not good).

 

We get an awful feeling that nothing good is going to happen at Celebrity as long as LLP is at the helm...(or unless she has a major change of heart). Given her long experience in the industry, we have to assume she knows what she is doing....it is intentional....and its not to our own taste. As a stockholder, we wish her the best of luck improving the bottom line....but that improvement will likely be done without our future contributions.

 

Hank

there should be a like button on this forum . this post would get a like from me !

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there should be a like button on this forum . this post would get a like from me !

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Agreed! Excellent and 'on target' post referred to

BTW, we are sailing Oceania again instead of Celebrity...

We get an awful feeling that nothing good is going to happen at Celebrity as long as LLP is at the helm...(or unless she has a major change of heart). Given her long experience in the industry, we have to assume she knows what she is doing....it is intentional....and its not to our own taste. As a stockholder, we wish her the best of luck improving the bottom line....but that improvement will likely be done without our future contributions. Hank

Agreed. I believe you're spot on about it being intentional. You can tell from her multiple public positions and statements. I look forward to the post LLP Celebrity era.

I don't think this website was for cheer leading for a certain cruise line. Being a long time member I see good and bad reviews and find them both useful. I started cruising in 1991 and yes there have been changes but again we should want to hear both sides.

J.

.

To each his own. Instead of nickel and dining passengers, Princess decided to build smaller balconies on their ships. It is uncomfortable for one person to be out there (no leg room) let alone two. They had eliminated several floors from their main central stair case to save money (maybe they have since put them back) and it made for every elevator ride to be crowded and some were full when they got to your deck. The Carnival Corp bean counters put their stamp on that Royal Class at Princess. We will cruise Princess again, but only on ships like the Ruby/Emerald or the medium sized ships that can do the better itineraries. I hope Princess can back to those huge balconies and good prices on the mini-suites. In the end, we care more about the product and don't mind paying supplemental charges along the way because you can't pay a small fee to make a tiny balcony comfortable.

Agree and we did post our own comments about the Royal Class...way back when. Those postage stamp balconies were a huge mistake. It just made us want to back on a Grand Class ship with a Caribe Deck balcony :). The missing center stairway has already been corrected on the Royal...and we suspect that will soon happen on the Regal. It was a big error in judgment.....Princess quickly realized the mistake..and fortunately had a solution (just open up the interior crew stair case. Another issue with the Royal Class is that the main theater is just too small to handle a full (or near full) ship. The Princess solution seems to be shortening shows to about 35 min...and adding a third performance when necessary.

Hank

Agreed. I believe you're spot on about it being intentional. You can tell from her multiple public positions and statements. I look forward to the post LLP Celebrity era.

I'm afraid that what we are seeing may be the "natural arc" for public companies.

1. In the beginning they they establish themselves by offering a better product/service
   
2. In the middle they focus on growing sales and are willing to invest in improving their product/service in order to attract new customers and grow market share.
   
3. The long downward glide begins as they shift focus to growing profit. Some profit growth can be realized by increasing capacity to serve more customers (i.e. adding ships), but faster & larger profit growth can be achieved by reducing the cost of goods/services sold (e.g. reducing quality) and/or increasing pricing (incl. adding for fee services).
   

Celebrity is now clearly in phase 3. It would be nice if companies in phase 2 could take the position that they were happy and content to make a good profit selling a good product to loyal customers. Unfortunately, public companies can't adopt this position (well some dividend driven companies can, but there are few). For the most part, public CEOs are tasked and rewarded for improving the stock price. This means growing profit and unfortunately that means eventually most public companies find themselves in phase 3.

The good news is we can look forward to new companies entering phase 1. Viking ocean comes to mind. Wouldn't it be great if Virgin entered the cruise market?

Where does negativity come from?

I believe that cruisers who have had a better experience in the past compared to the present offerings, post their reaction to the latest changes.

Positive posts, I believe, come from relative newbies who have not experienced the service and food and entertainment of the "original" Celebrity.

There is nothing like a first cruise and if one does not have a yardstick for comparing the past or other cruise lines, there is seldom a need for negativity. All those who say they have never had a bad cruise probably seldom experienced a cruise beyond expectations when one was treated as royalty.

Perception is relative. Mine is tilting down on Celebrity compared to the past product. Hank states it very well as does mnocket.

 

Positive posts, I believe, come from relative newbies who have not experienced the service and food and entertainment of the "original" Celebrity.

1. The long downward glide begins as they shift focus to growing profit. Some profit growth can be realized by increasing capacity to serve more customers (i.e. adding ships), but faster & larger profit growth can be achieved by reducing the cost of goods/services sold (e.g. reducing quality) and/or increasing pricing (incl. adding for fee services).

I was going to mention this. It'd look that they're trying to grow profits faster than revenues which they can do through expense cutting. You can only do that for so long until you can't pare down expenses any more and your profits become more than revenue (impossible).

Disagree with this. If you read many of the posts, there are a lot of long time Celebrity cruisers who are still positive. If also seen many negative posts from first timers.

Could you point out the long time cruisers.. ie more than 20 years that give positive remarks about the present product?

Perhaps long time is relative to those who have not been around as long..

I would like to know what is better now than it was 20 years ago or 15 or even 10.

The food?

The Service?

The entertainment?

The Captain's Club Celebration?

OK the perks are better, the ships are more spectacular.

The "Orchestra" is smaller,

There are now 4 or 5 sales staff rather than one.

Park West is back

Murano or it's equivalent is gone on M class

The cabin assistant is gone

The librarian is gone

the Harp Player is gone

the dance hosts are gone

the bridge instructors are gone

the priest/minister etc is gone

the good Filipino bands are gone

the activities staff has been cut in half

the ability to get a free, one category upgrade from concierge two to one is gone..

Just a few of the cuts that I remember...

oh but you can now buy a burger.. that's positive news..

We're probably missing the key point here.... they can continue to cut service and simultaneously increase price BECAUSE they're sailing at over 100% occupancy. As long as that continues the current expressed trends will most likely continue.

That having been said we've done 26 Celebrity cruises and enjoyed each one...clearly some more than others, but the product continues to be one of the best around in our opinion.

Could you point out the long time cruisers.. ie more than 20 years that give positive remarks about the present product?

Perhaps long time is relative to those who have not been around as long..

Read some of the posts, there are many who still consider Celebrity a great value for their money and they have cruise, like me, well over 20 years.

Disagree with this. If you read many of the posts, there are a lot of long time Celebrity cruisers who are still positive. If also seen many negative posts from first timers.

I agree. Just look at the number of threads started by disgruntled first timers where the old-timers jump in in defence of Celebrity.