Out of all the cut backs over the years, what is the one thing ...

I think caution is a good thing in the current times.

Are you saying that there were times that caution was not a good thing?

I think caution is a good thing in the current times.

Maybe you should explain your thoughts here more specifically.

Are you saying that there were times that caution was not a good thing?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying :rolleyes:

Maybe you should explain your thoughts here more specifically.

From what I am observing in North America, it appears the economy is slowing. Speculative spending seems to be a bit risky at the moment.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying :rolleyes:

Sometimes, caution would inspire one to avoid being over-cautious ---at other times, perhaps now as you suggest, speculative spending is risky.

The fact is: caution is ALWAYS a good thing - well applied, it prevents you from being either over-cautious or risky.

Capital investment dollars and ability to secure/carry debt is finite.

I would assume that Carnival Corp. applies capital investment dollars to their subsidiaries based upon their respective financial results and Subsidiary ROI on investments.

If this is so it would lead me to believe that HAl is not exactly best in class of the competing subsidiaries when it comes to results and ROI.

Capital investment dollars and ability to secure/carry debt is finite.

 

 

 

I would assume that Carnival Corp. applies capital investment dollars to their subsidiaries based upon their respective financial results and Subsidiary ROI on investments.

 

 

 

If this is so it would lead me to believe that HAl is not exactly best in class of the competing subsidiaries when it comes to results and ROI.

HAL could never be best in class of the subsidiaries, because HAL customers don’t spend as much on drinking and onboard activities. Frankly, I loved lots and lots of the things HAL used to do and would be more than willing to pay (obviously more) to have them back.

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I sailed Noordam out of New York to the Caribbean in January 2007 and in 2008: that was a great way to escape the northeast winter.

 

Now, of course, that market is dominated by Royal Caribbean's monster of the seas out of Bayonne - and the bottom-of-the barrel NCL out of Manhattan.

 

Amazing to me that such a huge potential winter market has been ceded: the many millions of potential cruisers who live within a few easy/inexpensive hours from New York ports surely should be able to support a little more variety.

I think one reason why there aren't that many cruises from NYC to warm weather ports is due to the distance to the Caribbean. Most people only have a week for vacation and because of the distance many of the lines that do sail out of NYC on week long itineraries just offer ports in Florida or the Bahamas. Anything deeper into the Caribbean in a week would require "putting on the steam" and that is cost prohibitive. The only other option is Bermuda and that is only available in summer.

I think one reason why there aren't that many cruises from NYC to warm weather ports is due to the distance to the Caribbean. Most people only have a week for vacation and because of the distance many of the lines that do sail out of NYC on week long itineraries just offer ports in Florida or the Bahamas. Anything deeper into the Caribbean in a week would require "putting on the steam" and that is cost prohibitive. The only other option is Bermuda and that is only available in summer.

Royal Caribbean and NCL both have regular sailings to the Caribbean and NCL also has them to the Bahamas - certainly the Caribbean sailings are all more than a week - and this being a HAL thread, and HAL “regulars” are known to be in the demographic with more than just a one week vacation - that market would appear to be a natural for HAL - as it was until just a few years ago.

HAL cheerleaders don't like to admit but HAL has fallen behind the curve and it shows. Too many older ships, some that appear to have ongoing maintenance issues, with limited dining options. Too few new builds. They seem to have stood still whilst competitors are continuously improving their product. Customers want more than two or three Adagio strings, piped in music, jigsaw puzzles, and a large library of hard books

From our perspective HAL has slipped from being perceived as a premium line to just another one of the pack...but with older ships and an older demographic. I doubt that this is the image they want to project. They are going to where the puck was in the last period instead of going where it will be. I think that it may end up being very costly for them from a reputation perspective and from a financial perspective. Businesses need to keep at attracting new customers at an increasing rate.

HAL could never be best in class of the subsidiaries, because HAL customers don’t spend as much on drinking ...

You say that like its a bad thing. lol

We started sailing with HA in 2015. Prior to that it was Carnival for many years and cruises. I know this posting is about things missed on HA. I would like to celebrate the things we love about HA. We've fallen in love with HA for its mature venues. Below are the things we love or think the best on each line/ship.

Best use of cabin storage: HA

Best mini suite: Crown Princess (only sailed once)

Largest cabins: Carnival

Best food: Carnival

Best desserts: Carnival

Best production shows: Royal Caribbean, Carnival & Princess

Best service and engaging crew: Carnival & HA

Best thermal suites with thalosotherapy pool: HA

Best laundromats: Princess. One on every floor (full size machines, large room, tv inside, many ironing stations. Washing $3. Drying $3. Detergent 1.50). HA has none

Best cabin toiletries: HA

Favorite places on ship: Crows Nest on HA

Best quiet place: Silk Room on HA. (I think they renamed the room). Next to Thai restaurant

Best spiritual experience: HA. Church services every day

Best dancing bands: HA. BB King Blues All Stars

Best Lido buffet layout and seating availability (HA). (Crown Princess has all buffet foods in one area and you always have to search for seats)

Best pizza: Crown Princess

Worse theater: Crown Princess...must get there 1 hour ahead to get a decent seat. After that you have people crawling over you as the aisles are narrow and no breaks. Very uncomfortable theater.

Best and most unique itineraries: HA

Best walking deck: HA usually deck 3 goes all the way around

Most visible crew and officers: Carnival and HA

Most fun and unique activities: Princess

Best loyalty program: Carnival

Best Q and A with captain or officers: HA and Carnival

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Best loyalty program: Carnival

I was with you 100% until you said Carnival has the best loyalty program. It’s the worst IMHO. I'm Platinum and need another 100 cruise days for Diamond. What I would get for Diamond is:

- A small private event with captain (not a big deal), been to one of those on HAL and its just ok. On my first Carnival cruise we got invited to the captain’s dinner and a tour of the bridge, it was very cool.

- More free laundry, six bags is enough for a week as Platinum.

- One and only one free specialty restaurant ever, yes ever. What a slap in the face, this should be every cruise.

- I think there is some cabin upgrade (one time only) and priority reservations which has never come in handy as Platinum.

Now Royal has a bad ass loyalty program. HAL you have to live on a ship and the good stuff doesn’t kick in to 4 or 5 stars. I just made three so it’s going to be awhile but hey I’m in the younger 10% demographics of a HAL cruiser so I hopefully have a few more decades to go.

I last cruised on Holland America (NIEUW AMSTERDAM) in 2011, my second cruise in her. Previous trips were in ROTTERDAM (59), MAASDAM (twice) and EURODAM. Won't be going back.

Why? Because everything I liked about HAL has been methodically removed. I liked it precisely because it offered a good, traditional cruise experience without the noise, the mindless blaring music on the open decks and in every space, the stupid pool games, the jumbotrons and the relentless pandering to millennials of the other lines. I liked the silver service, the elegant place settings, the teak decks and wood steamer chairs, the chance to be near and smell and hear the sea, not blaring music. I liked the Dutch and Indonesian traditions. Dressing for dinner. The library. And being treated like an adult who didn't have to have things done to, at or for me 24/7. I liked an ocean holiday not a week at a theme park. I liked that it offered real value for money as a good, honest middle of the road product.

Frankly, I don't want to give my vacation dollar to a company that views me and what I value in a holiday (and once derived from that company) as a old fuddy duddy as it goes through a bigger mid-life crisis than I ever did. The fact that HAL is run by a man who never ever set foot on a cruise ship before pretty much sums it up. HAL has no idea what it wants to be, I just am content not to be there while it's finding out. The idea that every company has to "attract new customers" by completely altering its product and thus offending its loyal customer base is... a recipe for disaster.

I’m sorry all that has changed. Maybe try a smaller ship. We loved the Prinsendam.

Totally agree with the noise and clients on the other ships, that’s why we have stayed with HAL.

I last cruised on Holland America (NIEUW AMSTERDAM) in 2011, my second cruise in her. Previous trips were in ROTTERDAM (59), MAASDAM (twice) and EURODAM. Won't be going back.

 

Why? Because everything I liked about HAL has been methodically removed. I liked it precisely because it offered a good, traditional cruise experience without the noise, the mindless blaring music on the open decks and in every space, the stupid pool games, the jumbotrons and the relentless pandering to millennials of the other lines. I liked the silver service, the elegant place settings, the teak decks and wood steamer chairs, the chance to be near and smell and hear the sea, not blaring music. I liked the Dutch and Indonesian traditions. Dressing for dinner. The library. And being treated like an adult who didn't have to have things done to, at or for me 24/7. I liked an ocean holiday not a week at a theme park. I liked that it offered real value for money as a good, honest middle of the road product.

 

Frankly, I don't want to give my vacation dollar to a company that views me and what I value in a holiday (and once derived from that company) as a old fuddy duddy as it goes through a bigger mid-life crisis than I ever did. The fact that HAL is run by a man who never ever set foot on a cruise ship before pretty much sums it up. HAL has no idea what it wants to be, I just am content not to be there while it's finding out. The idea that every company has to "attract new customers" by completely altering its product and thus offending its loyal customer base is... a recipe for disaster.

Very well expressed ! Totally Agree !

Leave next week on Celebrity........B2B for 29 days.....Will post results in March

Wish they would sens his message to HAL. I too like the ocean vacations n, not a theme park. Have fun on B2B.

New York City is still a stop on HAL's repo cruises south to Ft. Lauderdale but, you're right, NY is another ex-home port for HAL. The Canada-New England as well as the Bermuda cruises used to start from there also but Boston has taken over

I also sailed Noordam from NYC to the Caribean in J anuary,2007

I would rush to be the first aboard if Hal would sail in December, January or February from Boston to Caribbean. I would so love that. (except if Cuba was on the itinerary) , I've changed my mind about wishing to sail there for now.

I was with you 100% until you said Carnival has the best loyalty program. It’s the worst IMHO. I'm Platinum and need another 100 cruise days for Diamond. What I would get for Diamond is:

 

- A small private event with captain (not a big deal), been to one of those on HAL and its just ok. On my first Carnival cruise we got invited to the captain’s dinner and a tour of the bridge, it was very cool.

 

- More free laundry, six bags is enough for a week as Platinum.

 

- One and only one free specialty restaurant ever, yes ever. What a slap in the face, this should be every cruise.

 

- I think there is some cabin upgrade (one time only) and priority reservations which has never come in handy as Platinum.

 

Now Royal has a bad ass loyalty program. HAL you have to live on a ship and the good stuff doesn’t kick in to 4 or 5 stars. I just made three so it’s going to be awhile but hey I’m in the younger 10% demographics of a HAL cruiser so I hopefully have a few more decades to go.

I have to agree with you about Carnival platinum vs. Diamond. Platinum is just as good. Love their "gifts" although some are less valuable than others. We have some that we've had for years and still using and loving. Also love the fact that our rooms are always ready when we board (although this is a norm with HA). Can't say much about RC program except that I like the fact they give you credits for sailing on other ships in their brand. Haven't progressed far enough to experience their "elite" program.

I don't know if this is a "cutback" exactly... but I really miss "Love in Any Language" being sung by the crew on the last day of the cruise. It always brought a tear to my eye. I know... so corny, but there you have it.

I also miss Adagio in Explorers' Lounge after (or before) dinner. I think if I had to choose just one thing I'd like HAL to bring back, that would be it.

I even miss the Hal Cats, and the crew shows (although someone said they are still on in the afternoons! That's actually a good thing. They were always so late... )

Libraries --- with books other than just travel literature.

And Adagio Strings, with piano. I too am a musician and appreciate good music both during dining and afterwards.

Indonesian lunch.

I guess that will do for now.

Marianne:)

Libraries -- with books that are not just travel literature;

Adagio Strings -- piano and violins, played both at dinner time and after dinner;

Indonesian Lunch.

I guess that's it for now.

Marianne :halo:

Sorry about the duplicate post. I thought it didn't go thru the first time.

Marianne:halo:

Cruise log, Indonesian Tea, Crew shows, Enrichment lectures on most cruises, Galley tour with preparation such as ice carving which showed up in the dining room later for...Royal Dutch Tea

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My question, however, to those of you who have sailed the luxury or premium lines, and since Ashford appears to emulate these other lines, have there been decent libraries on board? The Oceania, it has been posted, does have one.

Yes, Oceania ships have a nice library. I haven't been on true luxury lines whose primary market is English speakers, but the French and German lines each had a library. The German ship Europa 2 (which is very high end) had an extensive library of German books and a smaller selection of English books. They also had up-to-date magazines. None of the ships had a librarian. One of the staff was assigned to keep the library space in order.

Since we are looking at a 80 day Grand Voyage on the MS Amsterdam after avoiding HAL for 5 years, I am wondering:

Are there still books in the café space where the library was? Is there a cabinet or shelf for passenger book exchanges?

My husband and I more or less fall into the 'new target' category but are a bit older. Who else would have time to get away for 80+ days? We would never even look at HAL cruises again if it weren't for their long and unusual itineraries.

On our 4 previous HAL cruises, I didn't like their bland food, but I liked the library, the tai chi classes, the naturalist, the walking deck at a low level where we didn't get blown over by the wind or had to weave our way between sun worshipper chairs, the flower arrangements, the ginger at the entrance of the dining room, the relatively long balcony cabins with the long leather sofa, and finally the crew.