A plea from one of your younger cruisers

Hi there.

This is actually Able Seaman H’s 14 year old daughter Emily here. I thought I would post up a few observations as we are currently aboard Sojourn on the South African holiday adventure.

I know the subject of children comes up regularly on these boards along with dress codes and smoking. Well I don’t smoke, I try to dress appropriately for the occasion but unfortunately there is nothing I can do about my age. Possibly if I were to wear a false beard and talk in a low, gruff voice it might help but ultimately, I’m a petite 14 year old girl :)

I know that Seabourn is geared towards adult guests. There isn’t a kids club and there are no activities specifically designed for youngsters. But that doesn’t bother me. Amongst other things I enjoy the trivia quiz although you adults do sometimes take it a bit too seriously, it’s only a key ring for goodness sake!

I enjoy getting dressed up for dinner and have eaten in some pretty upmarket establishments so know how to hold myself. I have been lucky enough to experience restaurants that hold 3 Michelin stars. What I have never experienced until the other night was wandering into a restaurant with my dad who asked for company only to be sat at a 4 person table in the far corner and left to ourselves. We waited before ordering but no one joined us.

I have also never, until yesterday, experienced open prejudice to my face. I walked quietly into the card room to get a board game from the cupboard to take to the pool side grill so Mum, Dad and I could enjoy the late afternoon together. “I came in here to get away from children” drifted across the bridge tables aimed in my direction.

The irony of being in South Africa wasn’t lost on me. It’s a small step to replace "children" with “blacks” (or worse!).

Similarly there are a number of guests in open same sex relationships. As a 14 year old I am quite aware we are not all the same. I wonder if the bridge players would have taken a swipe at the “gays” as well or is it just young people who are fair game? Considering my modest years I have been lucky to travel the world and meet people from all divisions of society. Particularly in Thailand I have met some very colourful characters.

Once again there is an irony when thinking about the well travelled nature of regular cruisers and their prejudice towards young people.

Please, I understand why you might object to a screaming infant who knows no better and can’t be reasoned with but I wonder if you might find it in your hearts to judge the rest of us as you find us.

Treat me with the same common courtesy I show to you.

Thanks for listening and enjoy the festive season regardless of colour, creed or age.

I probably won't be able to respond for a while as we don't have internet on board. I know - it's like starving a pet of oxygen. Try and persuade my Dad to sort it out for our next trip!!!!

Emily :)

Lovely and well-written.

A small number of Seabourn guests seem to openly wear their "stink face" and/or forget to apply their filter before speaking. They likely never got the memo that there is nothing luxurious about poor manners.

Excellent post from a well educated young lady. Perhaps we can all learn a lesson or two about good manners.

Very nicely written. There are some people who thrive on being miserable, and in the process make those around them miserable. Fortunately, you are not one of those people. Enjoy your cruise despite the few grouches.

Anyone who has met and interfaced with Emily can only wish that some of the "adults" would conduct themselves in the mature and well mannered way that she does. I would really hate to see this turn into something more than what Emily intended.

As regards the comment that was made, I suspect it might be the result of a situation that occured on the previous segment of this cruise, as well as last year, when a small unruly child was repeatedly brought into the card room while people were trying to concentrate on bridge.

And Emily, I would not read too much into being seated in a corner. We have ended up in the same situation a couple of times when the restaurant was full and I really doubt your age had anything to do with your table or service. It is best to just call over one of the assistant Matre d's and call the matter to their attention.

As a couple we do not have children ourselves but have always found the young adults behave just like the vast majority of the adults on Seabourn. We have never seen any bad behaviour or any discourtesy to any other passengers ever by young adults on Seabourn.

I have seen some wildly behaved children having fun at family oriented hotels in Spain but not on Seabourn.

I am aware of an incident, you may have been referring to it above, where a small child of about 3 was disruptive on Sojourn a few months ago during Bridge while players were trying to concentrate, from memory it was the parents who made the big scene all about the child's rights etc.....I also felt that this particular family boarded with a sort of edge as if they were looking for something to be slightly aggressive about. On that instant I felt the parents should have shown consideration to the other players and taken the child somewhere so he could calm down. They chose not to and to defend the child.

It sounds to me that it would be good to meet the eloquent Emily and have some lunch with her and her parents.

Able Seaman H's Special Daughter Emily,

If I were your father I would be mighty proud of you right now. Not so much because you avoided the temptation to stand your ground and belt out a "naff off" (or something to that effect) before beating the retreat you had planned on making with the board game anyway, but because you so eloquently and calmly put this episode of unpleasantness in context and out there for everyone to read. Well done, young lady!

Believe it or not, I had a somewhat similar experience when I was in my late 40s! It was about bullying, too, in a group setting. I was on QE2 in the days when there was a computer room for emails, pre-iPad it was, and I had broken a tooth at lunchtime. So I went down there to that room and slid into the back where there were a few free terminals in order to type an email home about organizing a dental appointment the day after our Southampton arrival. And what happened? While I am typing this two liner a battle axe, a fellow passenger, trying to learn Word, reared up to display her fullsomeness and instructed me in no uncertain terms that my presence was interfering with her concentration, such as it was. I am afraid that my parting words- after hitting the send command and logging out- were pretty sharp. And I furtively admit to you that I don't regret a single syllable.

Moving along, and in concurrence with FKGirl, you encountered one of those misery guts who just can't seem to help themselves. After all, rudeness, as defined as deliberately making someone hurt and uncomfortable, says more about them than anyone or anything else. There is no excuse for it, unless they are under some severe medication, I suppose. And think about it: their family is being spared their presence this Christmas week! The mere thought uplifts my spirits and I hope it will lift yours in due course.

Best regards, Emily, and Happy Sailing!

Emily,

What a sensational post. As one of the people who tend to be vocal about children on Seabourn let me say that I would be thrilled to sail with you anytime. And the remarks you suffered through in the card room were completely uncalled for. When any of us comments on our dislike of children it has nothing to do with someone like you (In any case I don't consider fourteen years old a kid) but I bet some of the behavior I've encountered by unruly kids and their oblivious parents would stun you as much as it does me.

I hope to meet you soon aboard a Seabourn ship and enjoy the rest of this cruise.

Such a beautifully, beautifully written post. Emily, I too have been the object of some rude, possibly prejudiced, behavior on a couple of ships. It hurts, it made me depressed, and then it made me angry. I have learned that the behavior of ship passengers is not too much different than the behavior of people on shore; some folks, unfortunately, just happen to be mean. On a ship, though, it is a bit more difficult to avoid the nasty ones. My advice is to focus on the things you love about the ship, and on the Sojourn I know you have many. Focus on the people you enjoy and who treat you well and spend your time with them. Make jokes about the nasty ones. And always, always have a strategy about how to avoid the jerks and how to dash away as soon as one arrives or makes himself/herself known.

You sound like a terrific person. I know we would love having dinner with you.

We would be honored for you and your family to join us for dinner on a future cruise. You are wise beyond your years.

Well said Emily. Enjoy the remainder of your cruise.

I have just returned from having drinks in the club with Emily and her parents and they are a delightful family and very welcome on Seabourn as far as my wife and myself are concerned.

In fact after an hour in the club Emily made much more sense than her father who joined me in a few drinks and a light hearted chat about how tomorrow's comedian might choose his jokes to appeal to all nationalities comedic tastes.

Happy Christmas to all,whatever your aspects and views might be.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Emily, I hope all the responses above show you that all oldies are not disrespectful of teenagers as the "grouch" in the card room was. I know your parents will be v proud of you and so they should.

As the grandparent of 2 x 14 year olds I can understand your feelings, my GD told me this morning an experience she had yesterday walking her dog with a friend when she was verbally attacked by an adult walker for no reason.

Thankfully, people like that are in the minority.

Enjoy the cruise.

I don't believe you encountered racisim or agesism, or any kind of "ism"....just old folks who know no better....wise of you to ignore them...I also don't think this is written by a 14 year old kid...

Yes... I can see how your plight compares with those who suffered under apartheid.

Emily,

Once again you see examples of unattractive behavior, this time posted above, when people of good will and some commonsense - given the flow of this thread- might, just might, show some grace on this Christmas Day!

So once again... Well done, young lady. I read your father's posts 2 years ago when he was contemplating his first Seabourn sailing with you, the following year when you accompanied him, he posted his impressions of Seabourn and showed his terrific video, and now this thread. My friend Mr Luxury has spoken his piece about meeting your family too.

Nothing more to add, apart from enjoy your cruise, bypass the bitter and unhappy, amd distinguish yourself with more soulful writing.

Happy sailing!

Yes, well written, indeed--book marks, actually, rather than key chains, ordinarily. That said, yes, we are enjoying your company onboard Sojourn at this time. However, we are not enjoying the screaming out of control behavior of a certin 2 plus year old onboard. This is not the child's fault but, rather, his, obviously, uncaring and anaware parents who continue to run around after him flailing their arms in the air. Generally speaking, the children, (anyone under 18 years of age), on Seabourn are much better behaved than I am. Also, they are, on this trip, generally, more fashionably dressed than 50% of the other guests! Perhaps, the "restriction" if there were one, should be no children under age 6? This would. also, alleviate the issue of young children under the age of six not being accepted at the game reserves as they are not in most of Africa. Just a common sense thought--there is way too little common sense onboard and elsewhere in this world at present. You are a stylish and mature young lady and are most welcome onboard as far as we and most of our friends are concerned.

Thank you Emily for taking the time to post. I truly wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas!

I have been following the Seabourn board since we now have booked our first Seabourn cruise.

I believe there is a 14 year old girl on board. I don't believe she wrote this post herself.

Merry Christmas :)

Cashew,

I fully believe Emily has written that eloquent post and it sounds as though it may have also been written by my daughter at the very same age as she too experienced the same 'isms' that Emily is now being exposed to.

Emily,

Like you, Miss Waldo (now 20) was a mature and well travelled young lady. Master W (now 23 although he looks 15), also well travelled, were first exposed to the "tut, tut" children on the cruise :eek: on our first (and only) Silversea (at 14 and 11). Their first visit to trivia they were shunned and no one wanted them in their team, our family was split rather than playing in the same team. The first question was a quote from Pride and Prejudice and no one in the team knew the answer, except for Miss W… when we returned to Trivia the next day both children were highly sort after.

They experienced similar at boarding for our first SB cruise and also as we boarded for Antarctica earlier this year.

Like you they have experienced the tucked in a corner in a restaurant, despite being dressed appropriately and able to use silverware with ease.

Unfortunately you will not change the attitudes of those who have stereotyped children and the views they have towards you being on the ship.

I shall now say the same thing to you that I said to them when they experienced the "ism"

In your heart you know you are equal to anyone on the ship and if those people are ignorant enough to think otherwise, let them spoil their own trip by whinging and complaining. Show resilience and brush off the comments.

You may be hurting on the inside now, but I can guarantee that at the end of this cruise your parents will have received glowing complements about your behaviour, just as they did on your last trip.

If by chance you are considering the Christmas Cruise to Thailand next year, I am sure it would be a pleasure to sail with you and you could swap stories with the little waldo's about the ignorance of some adults.

I think Seabourn might do everyone a favour by declaring a minimum age for sailing on their ships.

I don't have a problem with children on board. But others on Seabourn do which is obvious reading several posts regarding this subject on this board. If my children were little I would not dream bringing them on board and being exposed to the "anti children" behaviour on board. Also I believe a 14 year old should hang out with their age group, not adults at all times.

Whether they are "mature" or not is not really the issue. We all think our children and grandchildren are the "best, most intelligent, gifted etc". It does not mean others have to think that way.

Sorry this 14 year old had to encounter some negative experiences but really anyone could see this coming especially since the OP is a member on cruise critic.

If she had written this post, then I assume she has the mental capacity to deal with these issues. If not, then she is not as mature as she or her parents believe. Therefore it was and is the wrong decision to take this child on this particular cruise line but maybe it is time to take her on a more child friendly ship.

Also I believe a 14 year old should hang out with their age group, not adults at all times.

My children went on a family holiday to spend time with their family. They had plenty of time to spend with their peers in their everyday schooling and social life. They genuinely enjoyed educational lectures, thought provoking conversation and the opportunity to be exposed to ideas and views different to theirs. I believe this exposure makes them into well rounded, less biased adults.

I do think small children should not be on board, they do impact for the most part on the enjoyment of others.

Emily had already proven herself on a previous cruise to be a suitable passenger and I would much rather cruise with her than some of the sanctimonious drunks that you sometimes have on board.

Perhaps they should also ban groups of more than 4 as they impact on my enjoyment. They should also ban people with canes and walking frames as they impact on my ability to walk down the corridor unimpeded. Ladies who wear overbearing perfume should also be refused sailing as they irritate my sinus.;) Where do we stop?

I am not basing my comments about Emily or my own children in biased manner. I am basing them on comments made by other guests to myself and i am sure to Henry and on cruise critic about the enjoyment they had when sailing with them.

Emily we came very close to booking the cruise you are on and Miss W said to me this morning, oh…. I wish we had been on that cruise. Emily sounds like someone I can really get on with.

I have been following the Seabourn board since we now have booked our first Seabourn cruise.

 

 

 

I believe there is a 14 year old girl on board. I don't believe she wrote this post herself.

 

 

 

Merry Christmas :)

Thankfully Emily has good parents that she can refer to for guidance when posting on these sometimes shark infested boards.

After all,we are all at sea sometime in our lives.

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Well Cashew14, your post takes the (Christmas) cake!

So let me get this straight. Despite personal and first references about Emily and her family, you don't get her message, much less accept it. That's fine, of course. Each to his own. And then there are your own views...

Anyway, I will be on the upcoming 40 day cruise on Sojourn. And soon you too will partake of your first Seabourn cruise. So you will be learning something about Seabourn and its regular passengers too, I trust.

Maybe we can get together and you can tell me more about how children and young adults should behave, with whom they should travel, whether this particular 14 year old should have access to this cruisecritic board and where your views on "mental capacity" are getting you, pedagogically or otherwise? And I will repeat and elaborate on my views on rudeness and add some insights about gracious behavior, self-doubt and humility- to demonstrate that I will be prepared for our our tete a tete too.

Happy sailing!