Noordam: Broken Toilet, Cold Showers, and a missed port to save money!

[iancal]

HAL is perfect so people must be exaggerating these issues. After all, our last cruise was great.

 

Or could it all be the fault of other cruisers.

 

Maybe many have left their balcony doors open. The could be the root cause of all of these issues, hence none of them are really HAL's problem.

[OlsSalt]

HAL is perfect so people must be exaggerating these issues. After all, our last cruise was great.

 

Or could it all be the fault of other cruisers.

 

Maybe many have left their balcony doors open. The could be the root cause of all of these issues, hence none of them are really HAL's problem.

 

HAL strongly warns about not putting certain items down the toilet, but it sounds like it gets done anyway. That is a bummer, out of their immediate control with these enviro low-flush vacuum toilets. They are ALl HAL problems if they make passengers unhappy and inconvenienced.

 

That goes without saying. HAL is far from perfect; so it is unfortunate when passengers come on board with perfect expectations - needs more realistic accommodations on both sides when choosing ocean-going ships that are smaller and older is my only suggestion.

[selma]

 

There is a warning sign in all the tubs about checking water temperatures for your own safety, and there is that little button on the faucet that prevents going to too high of a temperature, unless you intentionally override it. What did go wrong?

 

Oh I know how those things work, got them at home. Nothing of the alike. Besides, after 11 days I finally had hot water but nothing that hot you could burn yourself even if trying to. ;) As with an accessible stateroom I had no tub but a shower, with showerseat. HAL uses seats that basically are made up from wood rods/thin boards bolted onto a metal fold up frame. Unbeknownst to me, it had one of those bolts sticking out about 1 cm and I found out when making a transfer (for those not used to the lingo; scooting my bumm from showerseat to wheelchairseat) et voilà; laceration. No biggy normally, for me it just happens to be bad luck combined with my overall health resulting in needing treatment for at least a couple of months.

 

Still beats me how it could've gone unnoticed with so many folks in that shower daily and daily grabbing that seat at the part where the specific bolt was located to fold it up, out etc. Was a puzzle for all involved, incl. apparently there are even specific checks for these things to have been prevented that didn't pick up on it alas.

 

Sometimes things happen. Sometimes things all seem to happen at the same time. No fun, but that is life. It was obvious this wasn't intent but accident. Some balls were dropped which ended in an accident, but for me there's difference between that or intent. It was taken very seriously from the get go and the initial response of certain crew members involved spoke for itself. Things happen, for me the reason why they happen is important and how it gets dealt with when things do happen even more so. Which, unlike the other issues I've had, pretty much has been dealt with from the get go with them on top of it and properly taken care off. C'est la vie. I'm just hoping I've had my fair share of that and am looking forward to oh so smooth sailings from now on. :p

[blueboro]

Maybe if you did your bathroom business at the Front Desk someone would take notice and you would at least get in front of someone with authority:).

[serendipity1499]

<SNIP>

We had one occasion on HAL with a cabin that was determined to be "uninhabitable" and we were moved to the only available cabin on the ship -- a cabin that was, in reality, a downgrade but it was habitable. That made us happy. We were given a plate of sweets and a Pinnacle dinner immediately -- and a generous surprise OBC that we were not informed about until the day before disembarkation. It is possible that there will be some compensation yet to come.

 

<SNIP>

quote]

 

We received OBC without having to ask for compensation..On our 68 day cruise in Jan we were without air conditioning for almost a week..It was quite warm going down in South America..They were constantly working on it to no avail..In the meantime our wonderful Stewards brought us a fan..Finally Maintenance was able to obtain a needed part & it was fixed..This was the entire first week of our cruise..

We completely forgot about this & just a few days before we disembarked (68 days later) Hal sent us a letter of apology & stated that Seattle agreed to give us a very generous OBC which we never asked for nor demanded! We were very surprised & happy... So to the OP, perhaps you will get something before you disembark but if not write a short concise non-threatening letter to HAL Seattle about your problems..Realize that not having a working toilet & a hot shower can make for a very unhappy cruiser..We wish you luck & hope that your toilet & shower will be fixed soon...

 

I don't want to trivialize the negative things that you've encountered (I know that I'd be unhappy as well),

 

But as an Airline Captain, I do want to address the decision to cancel Monaco. What you're describing here seems like a very wise and reasonable decision. I have been in many situations like the one you describe where a flight has been cancelled, delayed or diverted on what seems like a perfectly beautiful day. The reaction from several passengers is always similar to yours: "They canceled to save money!" "They are lying to us!" or "They dont care about us!"

 

These statements are, in the most part, as far from the truth as you can get. There are SO MANY variables that go into making a decision of this magnitude, that not even the CEO of a company fully comprehends how the final decision is reached. I'm not kidding.

 

I know that you mention having the inside scoop on how the decision was "really" made. With all due respect, unless your source is the Captain himself or someone sitting in HAL's equivalent of Operations Control, I would consider the information to lack accuracy.

 

More than once I've had to explain to an irate passenger why the flight is canceled when there are blue skies outside the window. And it's very hard to make them understand when they are fixated on the "they canceled to save money" argument. Most of the time, a cancelation means lost revenue, and I mean A LOT of lost revenue. I can only assume that on a cruise ship the losses are magnified. It's a decision that hurts everybody. There's lost revenue for the cruise line, shore excursion operators, local vendors, along with the potential lost revenue from unhappy passengers who, like you, may misdirect their anger and choose not to cruise on HAL again.

 

To think that this type of decision is made out of greed, and not for your own safety and everybody else around you, is misguided and ill founded.

 

Once again, not trying to minimize everything else you've experienced, but I felt that I needed to address this point.

 

Thank you Tapi for your very informative posts..Completely understand as worked for a European Airline & many Psgrs could not understand why we had to occasionally cancel a flight when the weather looked great both at JFK & at our final European destination..Also as a person who has owned a sailboat & sailed a great deal, can understand why a Captain might be forced to make a decision to cancel a port even when others think the weather is is beautiful.. I agree that Captains would not cancel a port to save money..When missing a port HAL will stand to loose more than they save just in their port excursions alone..

Cheers...Betty

[Tapi]

, we find out that the other cruise ship in Monaco yesterday, waited it out, and tendered their passengers to shore. So, for all the naysayers, we did get screwed out of that port for no reason.

 

I should add that a big part of the reason why a decision to cancel is made is based on what the Captain deems safe and what he's comfortable with. Two Captains can look at the same list of variables and reach a different decision. Your Captain may have looked at the winds, currents and forecasts and decided that he wasn't comfortable making that port of call, even if the Captain of another ship may have chosen to make that same port. It happens all the time.

 

The other ship may have made Monaco without incident, but if something had gone wrong, that other ship would've made headlines while you sailed uneventfully to the next port of call. Once again, your safety was the main concern and no Captain should ever feel pressured to do something that they are not comfortable with.

 

Many of the accidents that you hear about involve a Captain that chose to push the envelope a bit too much in an effort "to get there". I still believe that your Captain made a sound decision, even if it created some disappointment among passengers who would've preferred "to get there".

[JamesEM]

Thanks for sharing your cruise experience, I find it amazing that on some cruises the staff can't do enough when there are problems and some times the compete opposite.

[erewhon]

From what you write, I believe that the lack of communication on the crew's part may be the root of your dissatisfaction. It makes a HUGE difference when passengers are kept informed.

 

From the photo you posted, it does look like a beautiful day from a distance, but maybe if the Captain had explained better why you couldn't go in again (maybe winds or currents exceeding ship limitations, forecasts, Monaco's specific limitations) etc, it would've helped to prevent disappointment from escalating into anger.

 

I know that the specifics are not the same, but here's an example of how keeping passengers informed can make a big difference. A few weeks ago, we were stuck departing NY La Guardia. Blue skies with some scattered clouds, but all departures were stopped. 50 miles west of the airport, there was a HUGE line of thunderstorms, blocking most departure corridors, and the very few that were open, were saturated with traffic.

 

We sat on the taxiway for 2 hours and then returned to the gate to get more gas for a new, longer route of flight around the weather. We then taxied back out and waited almost 3 more hours waiting for takeoff. We had to return to the gate one more time because of tarmac limitations. We tried to launch a 3rd time, but the crew then reached its legal duty limits and we had no choice but to cancel the flight. Not only did our passengers get canceled, but the next batch of unsuspecting passengers at another city were canceled as well since the airplane was stuck in NY.

 

You would've expected passengers to walk off the airplane grumbling and angry (specially after almost 6 hours) but they were smiling, thanking us, and even cracking jokes.

 

I commented to the lead flight attendant that I was surprised at how little backlash we experienced, and she said that the passengers she talked to were grateful that we had kept them informed of specifically what was going on throughout this irregular operation. I had made a very conscious effort to make updates every 20 minutes, even if I didn't have anything to report. Apparently it worked.

 

It seems like the crew of your ship should've been a bit more proactive about telling passengers what they were doing and why. As a crewmember, our number one goal is to get passengers to their destination SAFELY, but unfortunately, sometimes many of us don't do the best job verbalizing how we accomplish that goal. :o

 

Yes, communication is so very important.

[Cindy]

To the OP -- I agree with other posters about keeping the missed port issue separate from your legitimate complaint about the problems with your cabin. You should not have to put up with the pervasive and persistent plumbing problems you've had, and HAL should be held responsible for providing the services they contracted for. Ports aren't guaranteed for any reason, but I believe that not having a flushing toilet and hot water are issues that the cruise line MUST address.

HAL strongly warns about not putting certain items down the toilet, but it sounds like it gets done anyway. That is a bummer, out of their immediate control with these enviro low-flush vacuum toilets. They are ALl HAL problems if they make passengers unhappy and inconvenienced.

 

That goes without saying. HAL is far from perfect; so it is unfortunate when passengers come on board with perfect expectations - needs more realistic accommodations on both sides when choosing ocean-going ships that are smaller and older is my only suggestion.

 

Let me start by saying I singled out this post by OlsSalt because it's the most recent such post I've read, but regular CC readers/posters will recall many such posts.

Serious question -- Why are people so quick to blame major problems and outages such as days on end without a flushing toilet or air conditioning on their fellow passengers and not hold HAL (or any other line) responsible? I've seen it on here time and time again, where CC members are experiencing horrible maintenance issues, and basically are told "things break", "people left their balcony doors open", "people flushed wipes", etc.

In my opinion, there's a huge difference between a vacuum system toilet that has a slightly delayed flush and one that waits several hours or days. No hot water for the better part of a cruise? I pay to shower and use the restroom in the cabin I paid for, not the spa. No A/C in the tropics? Not OK. We as passengers should not be willing to make excuses for HAL or any other cruise line that has a ship experiencing major and persistent life/sanitary system problems.

I, for one, expect that if there is a major problem with a cabin I'm in, the ship's staff will move Heaven and Earth to correct the problem. In my opinion, for any of us who are sitting home with air conditioning, hot water, and a toilet that flushes to suggest that going without those things is just an inconvenience is insensitive.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!:o

[sapper1]

To the OP -- I agree with other posters about keeping the missed port issue separate from your legitimate complaint about the problems with your cabin. You should not have to put up with the pervasive and persistent plumbing problems you've had, and HAL should be held responsible for providing the services they contracted for. Ports aren't guaranteed for any reason, but I believe that not having a flushing toilet and hot water are issues that the cruise line MUST address.

 

 

Let me start by saying I singled out this post by OlsSalt because it's the most recent such post I've read, but regular CC readers/posters will recall many such posts.

Serious question -- Why are people so quick to blame major problems and outages such as days on end without a flushing toilet or air conditioning on their fellow passengers and not hold HAL (or any other line) responsible? I've seen it on here time and time again, where CC members are experiencing horrible maintenance issues, and basically are told "things break", "people left their balcony doors open", "people flushed wipes", etc.

In my opinion, there's a huge difference between a vacuum system toilet that has a slightly delayed flush and one that waits several hours or days. No hot water for the better part of a cruise? I pay to shower and use the restroom in the cabin I paid for, not the spa. No A/C in the tropics? Not OK. We as passengers should not be willing to make excuses for HAL or any other cruise line that has a ship experiencing major and persistent life/sanitary system problems.

I, for one, expect that if there is a major problem with a cabin I'm in, the ship's staff will move Heaven and Earth to correct the problem. In my opinion, for any of us who are sitting home with air conditioning, hot water, and a toilet that flushes to suggest that going without those things is just an inconvenience is insensitive.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!:o

 

No argument here. I agree with you.

[iancal]

Absolutely agree with Cindy.

 

But I would add one thing. It is past insensitive for people who are not on the ship at that time to sit back and make claims that the situation is at variance with how the poster describes it. Bottom line, if you are not there, how do you really know?

 

This is exactly what some of the HAL cheerleaders when anyone raises the slightest issue or criticism with their cruise (unless it is on another cruise line of course) or HAL.

[bishop84]

Having just returned from a great day in Florence, we find out that the other cruise ship in Monaco yesterday, waited it out, and tendered their passengers to shore. So, for all the naysayers, we did get screwed out of that port for no reason.

 

If it is of any comfort a friend who was working in Monaco told me that the storm caused a few yachts to loose their moorings and it took quite a while to get the harbour back into order and allow even the yachts to move.

 

Do you know which ship managed to make the call as there is nothing listed on the port website except the cancelled Noordam call?

 

I hope you get compensation for the problems you have experienced on the cruise.

[startwin]

Yes, communication is so very important.

 

 

Absolutely. I venture to say that communication repairs much damage, but if it is used in the first place, it avoids damage and hurt feelings. In my long-ago working life, I was supervisor to 8 staff, and we had one mantra - in fact, I had a banner on the office wall saying this..... "Communication is the key".

[jmkennett]

If it is of any comfort a friend who was working in Monaco told me that the storm caused a few yachts to loose their moorings and it took quite a while to get the harbour back into order and allow even the yachts to move.

 

Do you know which ship managed to make the call as there is nothing listed on the port website except the cancelled Noordam call?

 

I hope you get compensation for the problems you have experienced on the cruise.

 

Thank you! The storm was very bad for about 15 minutes and I would never expect the captain to deal with those conditions. We were at the dock (not tied up) when the storm hit. He did the right thing to leave the pier at that time. I'm sure there were a few moorings that broke.

 

I know many of us will have to agree to disagree. An hour later the weather was beautiful. Seas were calm, there was almost no wind, and the skies were blue. I realize many want to side with the captain, but as said by a previous poster, no one commenting is on this cruise. Standing 50 feet above the water, on the Promenade deck, and seeing the conditions, I will debate anyone to tell me we could not have returned. I think my picture from earlier shows this (attached again)

 

The captain made the decision in haste and did not make any effort to get us to Monaco. It is the prevailing opinion among other pax as well. Due to my other issues, I've spoken to a few higher ups and while not directly saying it due to their position, it is obvious they agree.

 

I realize due to the contract, they can do anything they want, but it would be nice if they offered more than a cheap glass of Champagne to compensate for Monaco. That was a slap in the face. Had it been bad weather all day, I wouldn't have a problem at all with what he did.

 

We've been averaging about 7 knots the entire cruise, so they could have easily gone to Corsica or Portofino yesterday instead of a day at sea. There was more than enough time to get to Cagliari, as we were only 140 miles away at noon yesterday and were only an hour from Bonafacio. Evidently, Portofino was in discussion, but was nixed.

 

The other ship to return was a British cruise ship but I'm not sure of the name.

[jmkennett]

Absolutely agree with Cindy.

 

But I would add one thing. It is past insensitive for people who are not on the ship at that time to sit back and make claims that the situation is at variance with how the poster describes it. Bottom line, if you are not there, how do you really know?

 

This is exactly what some of the HAL cheerleaders when anyone raises the slightest issue or criticism with their cruise (unless it is on another cruise line of course) or HAL.

 

Thank you!

[jmkennett]

Absolutely agree with Cindy.

 

But I would add one thing. It is past insensitive for people who are not on the ship at that time to sit back and make claims that the situation is at variance with how the poster describes it. Bottom line, if you are not there, how do you really know?

 

This is exactly what some of the HAL cheerleaders when anyone raises the slightest issue or criticism with their cruise (unless it is on another cruise line of course) or HAL.

 

We are in Cagliari today and had a day at sea yesterday. Had a fantastic dinner in Pinnacle. Perfect food and service. Again, I hate to complain about anything. I'm not that way. I'm not seeking problems. There are a lot of positives on this cruise.

 

However, I should not have to deal with these kind of negative things on vacation. I deal with enough stuff at home.

 

So, yesterday ( day 8), we wake up to a broken toilet, again. Upstairs to use the restroom. Another call and maintenance is sent up. This time a higher up shows up and tells us maybe we should use less toilet paper! Really?

 

It now works for a few hours and stops working again. Finally, after eight days, we get a call from a manager with some authority. She sends someone to fix the toilet. They replace a part and it seems to be working fine. Why did this take eight days? While there, the shower was fixed as well.

 

Evidently, they are also working on compensation.

 

One other note. We are down to one working drink machine in the Lido for 1800 people. It's been this way for three days. Maintenance seems to be an issue on this trip.

 

Cabin stewards continue to be incredible as well as most of the Indonesian crew. I will post a major review with pictures when I return.

[Not-My-Real-Name]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I hope you are compensated in a manner that doesn't require you to book another cruise with HAL to get that compensation.

[bishop84]

Thank you! The storm was very bad for about 15 minutes and I would never expect the captain to deal with those conditions. We were at the dock (not tied up) when the storm hit. He did the right thing to leave the pier at that time. I'm sure there were a few moorings that broke.

 

I know many of us will have to agree to disagree. An hour later the weather was beautiful. Seas were calm, there was almost no wind, and the skies were blue. I realize many want to side with the captain, but as said by a previous poster, no one commenting is on this cruise. Standing 50 feet above the water, on the Promenade deck, and seeing the conditions, I will debate anyone to tell me we could not have returned. I think my picture from earlier shows this (attached again)

 

The captain made the decision in haste and did not make any effort to get us to Monaco. It is the prevailing opinion among other pax as well. Due to my other issues, I've spoken to a few higher ups and while not directly saying it due to their position, it is obvious they agree.

 

I realize due to the contract, they can do anything they want, but it would be nice if they offered more than a cheap glass of Champagne to compensate for Monaco. That was a slap in the face. Had it been bad weather all day, I wouldn't have a problem at all with what he did.

 

We've been averaging about 7 knots the entire cruise, so they could have easily gone to Corsica or Portofino yesterday instead of a day at sea. There was more than enough time to get to Cagliari, as we were only 140 miles away at noon yesterday and were only an hour from Bonafacio. Evidently, Portofino was in discussion, but was nixed.

 

The other ship to return was a British cruise ship but I'm not sure of the name.

 

Just had an update from my friend, who works on a yacht, apparently they were using the main jetty to moor several yachts as they fixed the moorings following the storm. It was not until early afternoon that the main jetty was clear. Maybe they could have continued your call my tender like the other ship in that case.

 

Glad to see they have finally sorted out the plumbing problems and things are getting better for you.

[Hgwells01]

I'd love to know the cabin number the OP is in, im on the Noordam in a couple of weeks and if the upsell fairy visits me with THAT cabin no I will know its not really a gift from above.

[iancal]

We have only ever had one issue with our cabin on any ship, any cruise line. It was on an NCL cruise this past Christmas.

 

We called twice. Once to report it, the next morning to say that the previous nights repair did not work.

 

It got fixed very quickly. We made two phone calls. NCL front desk must have called us three times over the next few days to ask if everything was OK. Our cabin steward asked us twice a day for the next week.

 

We had two evening visits from management during the first week...both to check on whether it was fixed, apologize for us having to call twice, and asking us if everything else was good. We did not really need or expect this. Each of them had a list of cabins. I guess they make a habit of personally following up on customer cabin issues.

 

No fans, no stories from the front desk about it being the first time they had heard of this, no stories about people leaving balcony doors open, no issue with management not wanting to deal with it, and no bottles of cheap wine sent to our cabin in the hope this would solve the issue-as if. We simply wanted it fixed and it was. |That is what great customer service is all about.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I appreciate your comments, especially from the pilot. My problem with Monaco and I was calm compared to many, was there was no effort by the captain to try to go back or to really explain why. The storm, for 15 minutes, was bad. We left right after it. After the initial announcement by the CD, the captain said they were worried about possible storms later in the day (was told later by a higher up in the front office that it was a revenue decision). I realize I'm not a captain of a ship, but there were no storms the rest of the day. It got windy 30 miles out to sea later in the day, but Monaco was beautiful. The weather online said so as well.

 

I apologize for calling the captain an idiot, but I think he made an idiotic decision by not waiting for an hour and going back in to port. He screwed up the day for 1800 people either due to a revenue decision or a worry about a possible storm. Last I checked, a thunderstorm can pop up anywhere in the summer. So, by using this theory, ports would be cancelled all the time. I've docked and tendered in far worse conditions on 43 cruises.

 

I will attempt to attach a few pictures showing the weather at 10AM.

 

As to the other problems, the toilet is still off and on and there was little hot water before dinner yesterday. My wife and kids took showers in the spa.

 

The Lido is still constantly out of drinks and ice. Room service is terrible. Breakfast wasn't even delivered this morning. Had it for 6:30-7 and left for the bus to Florence at 7:45. breakfast never showed. This was the second time in four days.

 

It's a lot of little things adding up. Had an anniversary cake delivered for my parents last night after we finished dessert. The dining room is slow. No help to debone the Dover Sole last night, which is standard in any restaurant with that dish. I love the waiters, but they are way over worked.

 

The ship itself is beautiful and the cabin stewards are the best. We are having a great time despite all the problems. The problem is no one seems to care and we have gone as far as writing a letter to the captain.

 

A little background on myself. I've worked for 13 years at a major hotel chain, in a AAA five diamond rated hotel. I know hospitality and I know how things should be and how problems should be solved. We are not getting that from HAL. It's sad, because I love this line. Been on the Eurodam and NA in the last 1 1/2 years and loved every minute. The Noordam is mismanaged and it starts from the top.

 

I just feel so sorry for your wife, children and you.

It is not good having to go elsewhere for showers. Terrible to not have a working toilet.

We gave up years ago ordering breakfasts -- they either arrived cold or not at all.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We are in Cagliari today and had a day at sea yesterday. Had a fantastic dinner in Pinnacle. Perfect food and service. Again, I hate to complain about anything. I'm not that way. I'm not seeking problems. There are a lot of positives on this cruise.

 

However, I should not have to deal with these kind of negative things on vacation. I deal with enough stuff at home.

 

So, yesterday ( day 8), we wake up to a broken toilet, again. Upstairs to use the restroom. Another call and maintenance is sent up. This time a higher up shows up and tells us maybe we should use less toilet paper! Really?

 

It now works for a few hours and stops working again. Finally, after eight days, we get a call from a manager with some authority. She sends someone to fix the toilet. They replace a part and it seems to be working fine. Why did this take eight days? While there, the shower was fixed as well.

 

Evidently, they are also working on compensation.

 

One other note. We are down to one working drink machine in the Lido for 1800 people. It's been this way for three days. Maintenance seems to be an issue on this trip.

 

Cabin stewards continue to be incredible as well as most of the Indonesian crew. I will post a major review with pictures when I return.

 

Using too much toilet paper -- that is a joke!! You don't even have a toilet that works to begin with.

I am reading all this and just shaking my head.

8 days to resolve problems is just not acceptable to me.

[SilvertoGold]

We have only ever had one issue with our cabin on any ship, any cruise line. It was on an NCL cruise this past Christmas.

 

We called twice. Once to report it, the next morning to say that the previous nights repair did not work.

 

It got fixed very quickly. We made two phone calls. NCL front desk must have called us three times over the next few days to ask if everything was OK. Our cabin steward asked us twice a day for the next week.

 

We had two evening visits from management during the first week...both to check on whether it was fixed, apologize for us having to call twice, and asking us if everything else was good. We did not really need or expect this. Each of them had a list of cabins. I guess they make a habit of personally following up on customer cabin issues.

 

No fans, no stories from the front desk about it being the first time they had heard of this, no stories about people leaving balcony doors open, no issue with management not wanting to deal with it, and no bottles of cheap wine sent to our cabin in the hope this would solve the issue-as if. We simply wanted it fixed and it was. |That is what great customer service is all about.

 

Wow! If only HAL could give that kind of caring/smart customer service!

 

Od course, I might faint!

[OlsSalt]

A delay flush toilet is not necessarily a non-working toilet; annoying but still functional. Personally I would not expect a waiter to debone a fish for each passenger on HAL ships. No, HAL ships are not "five diamond" ships. That would be an unrealistic expectation for the price.

[VinTek]

A delay flush toilet is not necessarily a non-working toilet; annoying but still functional. Personally I would not expect a waiter to debone a fish for each passenger on HAL ships. No, HAL ships are not "five diamond" ships. That would be an unrealistic expectation for the price.

 

How long would a delay have be be before a flush toilet is declared non-working? 30 seconds? A minute? 3 minutes? 30 minutes? An hour? I think that expecting a non-delayed flush toilet well within the expectation of any paying passengers. Not sure expecting a waiter to debone my fish would fall within those expectations. That would be on a level of expecting the cabin attendant to flush the toilet for a passenger, wouldn't it?