New propulsion problem on Millennium

[MicCanberra]

Perspective can be everything.:(

[deise17311]

Perspective can be everything.:(

 

So can perception...

 

 

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[The_Big_M]

The canal would get the fees x 2 for the extra two passages, but as it turns out, for this particular passage the canl's fees are the same empty or full.

 

Indeed, which means more revenue for the canal company.

 

That's quite a substantial cost!

[The_Big_M]

My family was aboard Celebrity's Infinity in January 2003, when the ship lost a propulsion pod in the middle of a cruise from FL to San Diego through the Panama Canal. The decision was made by Celebrity to cancel the cruise in Acapulco. All passengers returned to the ship from their day in ACA and were told to have their baggage outside the room by 11:00 pm, and all passengers would be disembarked at 7:00 am the following morning. After a chaotic disembarkation, we were brought to a hotel for a couple of days, then boarded a charter flight to SD (which was diverted to LA). The way the trip ended, the chaos, the lack of information, the constantly-changing third-hand stories from the Celebrity reps that were sent to control the mess...it was just HORRIBLE!

 

We were given a 25% refund, and 50% off a future cruise, to be used within 1 yr, same class of cabin, holidays blacked out, on voyages of less than 14 days--ie, so many restrictions that we personally were unable to use the coupon.

 

In comparison, the offer this time is much more generous.

 

Although Cruisecritic was around then, facebook wasn't. I wonder whether the better offer is due to a concern about PR?

[MicCanberra]

 

Although Cruisecritic was around then, facebook wasn't. I wonder whether the better offer is due to a concern about PR?

 

Possibly that and strong competition for the cruising dollar.:D

[LEtue]

No doubt she is helped along by the prevailing currents which are ''following'' instead of ebbing. Thus, a 17knot maximum speed to the engines can actually result in an actual forward speed higher than that.

Along the Calidornia coast, I'm sure she'll reach 17-18 knots of actual speed with no more than ~~ 15kn speed to the engines.

We got to remember she's sailing on half her mermaid azipods capacity....

Thankfully, it's been ''straight shot'' for ~~ 3 says now.

 

Very true. The transition from the Gulf of Mexico to the Atlantic can produce some rough water too and it is hurricane season. Let's hope nothing develops in the next week to slow down her progress.....

[BillB48]

The canal charges differently for cruise ships than it does for cargo ships. The passage fee is based on the number of BERTHS on a cruise ship. Empty or full the cost is the same. Cruise ships are given precedence over other ships going through the canal. If you've been to the canal you see scads of ships just sitting there waiting for a slot. Some wait hours, some days, some much longer. A cruise ship gets to go through pretty much immediately. Hence the very high tariffs no matter how many or few passengers.

 

It costs the Millennium around 500K for passage each way.

 

There is a formula to determine whether a passenger ship is charged by the berth or the standard Panama Canal Universal Measurement System, (PC/UMS). Generally most of the larger passenger ships tolls are calculated on per berth basis. I am going to get down in the weeds with the following....... The present fee per berth is $134, that is the fee for all passenger berths as long as there is one paying passenger on board. If there are no revenue passengers the fee per berth is dropped to $108.

 

If the Millennium just showed up at the Pacific entrance and wanted to transit she would have to take her spot in that group of waiting ships until her number came up. The Canal does have a reservation system in place for ships wanting a transit on a certain day, which is what all the cruise ships as well as other ships use if their schedule is critical. This reservation can be made about a year ahead and for Panamax size ships the fee is $35000..... plus tolls!! There is also 1 transit slot a day that can be auctioned to the highest bidder.

 

In addition to the reservation fee and the tolls, there is a whole laundry list of other fees. These fees include charges for tugs at the locks and through Gaillard Cut. I would not be surprised if the Millennium would be required to have a tug through the entire Canal. They also charge for each wire from each mule, renting the Canal's AIS transponder, the list is almost never ending. If the ship doesn't have their own narrator for the transit..... yup, the Canal has that for over $400!

 

You need an industrial strength check book if a Canal transit (planned or unplanned) is on your agenda:D!

[RoamingRetirees]

There is a formula to determine whether a passenger ship is charged by the berth or the standard Panama Canal Universal Measurement System, (PC/UMS). Generally most of the larger passenger ships tolls are calculated on per berth basis. I am going to get down in the weeds with the following....... The present fee per berth is $134, that is the fee for all passenger berths as long as there is one paying passenger on board. If there are no revenue passengers the fee per berth is dropped to $108.

 

If the Millennium just showed up at the Pacific entrance and wanted to transit she would have to take her spot in that group of waiting ships until her number came up. The Canal does have a reservation system in place for ships wanting a transit on a certain day, which is what all the cruise ships as well as other ships use if their schedule is critical. This reservation can be made about a year ahead and for Panamax size ships the fee is $35000..... plus tolls!! There is also 1 transit slot a day that can be auctioned to the highest bidder.

 

In addition to the reservation fee and the tolls, there is a whole laundry list of other fees. These fees include charges for tugs at the locks and through Gaillard Cut. I would not be surprised if the Millennium would be required to have a tug through the entire Canal. They also charge for each wire from each mule, renting the Canal's AIS transponder, the list is almost never ending. If the ship doesn't have their own narrator for the transit..... yup, the Canal has that for over $400!

 

You need an industrial strength check book if a Canal transit (planned or unplanned) is on your agenda:D!

 

And we complain about all the airline fees! :eek:

[JaneStarr]

There is a formula to determine whether a passenger ship is charged by the berth or the standard Panama Canal Universal Measurement System, (PC/UMS). Generally most of the larger passenger ships tolls are calculated on per berth basis. I am going to get down in the weeds with the following....... D!

 

Thanks, Bill, for the very interesting details!

Jane

[LeftcoastBC]

Some Perspective

I have just found Cruise Critic recently--so please don't flame me!

 

My family was aboard Celebrity's Infinity in January 2003, when the ship lost a propulsion pod in the middle of a cruise from FL to San Diego through the Panama Canal. The decision was made by Celebrity to cancel the cruise in Acapulco. All passengers returned to the ship from their day in ACA and were told to have their baggage outside the room by 11:00 pm, and all passengers would be disembarked at 7:00 am the following morning. After a chaotic disembarkation, we were brought to a hotel for a couple of days, then boarded a charter flight to SD (which was diverted to LA). The way the trip ended, the chaos, the lack of information, the constantly-changing third-hand stories from the Celebrity reps that were sent to control the mess...it was just HORRIBLE!

 

We were given a 25% refund, and 50% off a future cruise, to be used within 1 yr, same class of cabin, holidays blacked out, on voyages of less than 14 days--ie, so many restrictions that we personally were unable to use the coupon. There was, as I remember, similar talk of lawsuits, boycotts, lynchings, etc. What ended up hapening? Zip.

 

Here's the point: On 2/1/2003 as we wearily woke up in the LA Airport Hilton, after our "nightmarish" and "traumatic" ordeal was almost over, my wife flipped on the news on CNN while I was getting out of the shower. I still remember the sound of her voice saying "OH MY GOD!," as the wreckage of the Space Shuttle Columbia fell back to earth over Texas.

 

I remember what I said to her: "Those people had a bad trip. We had an adventure."

 

So get some perspective--time will heal these wounds, you will go on other cruises, and 99.9% of the people in the world would love to trade places with you as you endure the unendurable.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Astro

 

Well said about the "Adventure" we had. We were aboard also and will always remember what transpired in Acapulco and enroute back to SD.

I do remember the compensation a bit different tho.....We were compted the dollar % of the cruise days that were left: 3 or 4 was it not? and only 25 % off a future cruise.

 

I distinctly remember the FCC as we had a similar issue with the time frame.

However one of the things we knew was going to happen was still the $$ output vs time frame to go on the next cruise. So well in advance I corresponded with X suggesting the time frame be relaxed due to our Holiday and budget of the time... and was allowed to book an Alaska Cruise on the Infinity (same ship) a few months after the deadline.

 

So I also wish everyone well in this latest incident on the Millie and recommend that you engage X (RCL) in a calm manner after the smoke clears IF you feel you have issues.

 

It's quite clear to me that time and compensation practices have changed for the better but having a 2200 pax ship break down is never going to be fun. Confusion will likely always reign as each tier of management tries to make things right and run smoothly.

It's just human nature. We all think we have the solution but a solution in Miami translated to Acapulco and in this case the small city of Ketchikan somehow will always come out wrong or at least scrambled for whatever reason.

 

Best of luck everyone.

[CPT Trips]

There is a formula to determine whether a passenger ship is charged by the berth or the standard Panama Canal Universal Measurement System, (PC/UMS). Generally most of the larger passenger ships tolls are calculated on per berth basis. I am going to get down in the weeds with the following....... The present fee per berth is $134, that is the fee for all passenger berths as long as there is one paying passenger on board. If there are no revenue passengers the fee per berth is dropped to $108.

 

If the Millennium just showed up at the Pacific entrance and wanted to transit she would have to take her spot in that group of waiting ships until her number came up. The Canal does have a reservation system in place for ships wanting a transit on a certain day, which is what all the cruise ships as well as other ships use if their schedule is critical. This reservation can be made about a year ahead and for Panamax size ships the fee is $35000..... plus tolls!! There is also 1 transit slot a day that can be auctioned to the highest bidder.

 

In addition to the reservation fee and the tolls, there is a whole laundry list of other fees. These fees include charges for tugs at the locks and through Gaillard Cut. I would not be surprised if the Millennium would be required to have a tug through the entire Canal. They also charge for each wire from each mule, renting the Canal's AIS transponder, the list is almost never ending. If the ship doesn't have their own narrator for the transit..... yup, the Canal has that for over $400!

 

You need an industrial strength check book if a Canal transit (planned or unplanned) is on your agenda:D!

 

Do they accept "plastic?" :p

[BillB48]

Do they accept "plastic?" :p

 

In a word.... no:D. In the past the money had to be deposited with the treasurer of the Canal prior to the commencement of the transit. I really don't know how it's handle now, but I would think the funds would have to be transferred electronically and available to the Canal before the transit.

[MicCanberra]

Thanks, Bill, for the very interesting details!

Jane

Ditto, well it will be an extra expensive transit for X with no revenue from the passengers. :D

[MicCanberra]

Do they accept "plastic?" :p

LOL, I would think they would rather have payment in bullion.:D

[ccsuwxman]

We finally arrived back in New York on Saturday morning after leaving the Millenium on Thursday morning. Let me just add a few points to what has already been said so well by cruisestitch.

 

The first couple of days in Ketchikan were actually fairly enjoyable. Sunday was rainy, Monday was cloudy, and Tuesday was actually very nice, and relatively mild. We did a normal shore excursion on Sunday, did some shopping on Monday, and did a floatplane excursion for bear watching on Tuesday (spectacular, I might add. And we never would have done it had we not been stuck in Ketchikan). By Wednesday morning, however, the pleasant experience of being stuck on a fully functioning cruise ship (save for having no propulsion system) began to unravel.

 

Once the decision had been made to cancel the cruise, messages from the Captain (reiterated almost immediately by the Cruise Director--in case one could not understand the Captain's Greek-accented English, I suppose) provided very little in the way of information. We were essentially told that we would receive a full refund plus a 100% FCC, and that charter planes would arrive on Wednesday to fly all of us out of Ketchikan. However, in many cases, passengers were given NO information about where we were going and when. We were originally manifested to fly back to Vancouver, but we received no luggage tags or flight info until we discovered that our flight had left, and we were considered among those who had "missed" their flight out. As we had plans in Anchorage, we wanted to be transported there. The members of the Celebrity "Go Team" took our names and cabin numbers on Wednesday morning (after standing in line in the Conference Center on board for three hours) and assured us that we would be going to Anchorage. Less than an hour later, the CD came on with a message saying that there were no flights to Anchorage, despite what we were told by the Go Team, and we needed to board our original flights. At this time, we still had no luggage tags or flight info of any kind.

 

Finally got the Go Team, late Wednesday night, to put us on the Anchorage manifest, and we received luggage tags that night and had to have our bags packed and outside the cabin by 11 PM Wednesday night. The Captain had made one final announcement stating, in no uncertain terms, that all passengers had to be off the ship by 1:30 PM on Thursday (with an implied "or else" at the end of the announcement).

 

We were called to the Celebrity Theater at 10:30 AM on Thursday morning and loaded on a bus to the ferry terminal to Ketchikan Airport. For those unfamiliar with Ketchikan, the airport is only reachable by ferry from town, as there is no road connection. Remember that infamous "bridge to nowhere?" That was the bridge that would have connected Ketchikan to its airport. It was never built.

 

Arrived at the airport around 12:15 PM and were directed to a maintenance hangar south of the main terminal. The hangar doors were wide open and it was a raw, cool day. Chairs had been delivered for us to sit on, and the only food was bottled water and granola bars. The Go Team promised us pizza later in the day, and, in fact, it was delivered, and it was awful. Many of us walked over to the main terminal where it was, at least, warmer and we could stay indoors. The Miami Air B-737 arrived around 3:00 PM, but there was no TSA checkpoint set up until around 4:00 PM, and it was manned by Miami Air employees, not TSA agents. A few members of the Go Team, particularly a fellow named Chris, started bossing us around, telling us to sit down and not stand up until we were called to join the TSA line. I don't have to tell you that I did not appreciate being treated like a child, and I made my feelings known to a Celebrity higher-up as we walked across the tarmac to board the plane. We were onboard at 5:15 PM after spending five cold, raw hours at the airport in very uncomfortable conditions, with only one bathroom in the hangar that you wouldn't send your worst enemy to. Others on the ship were evacuated by the 1:30 PM deadline and had to wait until 10:30 PM to board their flights. We heard that Celebrity brought them all back to town and treated them to a "crab feast" that evening before they left. Too bad all we had was bad pizza and bottled water in a cold hangar while we waited.

 

The flight was fine and we had arranged a hotel room in Anchorage as the Go Team had assured us that there were no accommodations in town (not true). Celebrity offered us a $250 reimbursement on hotel rooms, and $75 per diem per person for food/expenses in Anchorage for up to two days.

 

The crew onboard the Millenium were wonderful, and did their jobs magnificently under trying conditions. It was unfortunate to see so many of them (including our cabin steward and other waitstaff from the restaurants) at the Ketchikan airport when we were leaving. We were told they were given a week's pay and sent home, as many had contracts that were expiring at the end of the Alaska season and were sent off the ship with the rest of us.

 

In my opinion, Celebrity really dropped the ball during the final 48 hours on board. The members of the Go Team (especially Susan Hunt) were extremely helpful, but my understanding is their hands were tied and they themselves had no authority to make any decisions. There was apparently a major disagreement between customer service staff on board and those who came in from Miami, and this created a serious miscommunication problem between the cruise line and the passengers, who, despite the generous refund were very unhappy as they left the ship. For sure, I will be writing to Celebrity outlining everything I've said above and asking for additional consideration above and beyond what we were promised (and I still have not received my refund--checking my credit card account every day and nothing there yet) as compensation for being treated like cattle both on Wednesday and especially on Thursday.

[BEAV]

Thanks for posting your personal and detailed experience of evacuating Millie.

 

I've worked my entire life in the transportation industry and have dealt through my share of what my company describes as service disruptions. The horror stories and complaints often mirror what you have described in great detail. It didn't take me too long to decide that if I was ever on the customer side of such a disruption, to immediately seek out my own alternate transportation, if possible, rather than wait for a company to make arrangements on my behalf. Reading of the horror stories of passengers evacuated from Millie last week has brought that lesson home to me once again.

 

Had I been kicked off Millie in Ketchikan last week, I would have independently booked a scheduled Alaska Airlines flight to Seattle (or Anchorage), depending on my onward travel plans. A month or so after the dust had settled from the onslaught of complaints to Celebrity HQ about how poorly transportation arrangements were handled, I would have written a letter, enclosed receipts, etc, requesting compensation. In other words, an independent, orderly self-evacuation. Would I be guaranteed compensation from =X= for going at it "on my own"? God only knows! But I've experienced too many of these types of situations where I've worked the past 34 years to see how badly things can "go south" so quickly. In these scenarios, it is often the "first day of school" for many who are thrust into the position of arranging emergency, last-minute transportation for large numbers of customers.

 

ccsuwxman, thanks again for sharing your account of evacuating Millie with us. I hope your next vacation is incident-free and is your best vacation ever! ;)

[The_Big_M]

There is a formula to determine whether a passenger ship is charged by the berth or the standard Panama Canal Universal Measurement System, (PC/UMS). Generally most of the larger passenger ships tolls are calculated on per berth basis. I am going to get down in the weeds with the following....... The present fee per berth is $134, that is the fee for all passenger berths as long as there is one paying passenger on board. If there are no revenue passengers the fee per berth is dropped to $108.

 

Thanks for sharing that knowledge!

 

It's impressive the things that people here know!

[MicCanberra]

Thanks for posting your personal and detailed experience of evacuating Millie.

 

I've worked my entire life in the transportation industry and have dealt through my share of what my company describes as service disruptions. The horror stories and complaints often mirror what you have described in great detail. It didn't take me too long to decide that if I was ever on the customer side of such a disruption, to immediately seek out my own alternate transportation, if possible, rather than wait for a company to make arrangements on my behalf. Reading of the horror stories of passengers evacuated from Millie last week has brought that lesson home to me once again.

 

Had I been kicked off Millie in Ketchikan last week, I would have independently booked a scheduled Alaska Airlines flight to Seattle (or Anchorage), depending on my onward travel plans. A month or so after the dust had settled from the onslaught of complaints to Celebrity HQ about how poorly transportation arrangements were handled, I would have written a letter, enclosed receipts, etc, requesting compensation. In other words, an independent, orderly self-evacuation. Would I be guaranteed compensation from =X= for going at it "on my own"? God only knows! But I've experienced too many of these types of situations where I've worked the past 34 years to see how badly things can "go south" so quickly. In these scenarios, it is often the "first day of school" for many who are thrust into the position of arranging emergency, last-minute transportation for large numbers of customers.

 

ccsuwxman, thanks again for sharing your account of evacuating Millie with us. I hope your next vacation is incident-free and is your best vacation ever! ;)

Good plan and works fantastically in theory, but I understand that there were other issues in trying to do this as well. Were there standard flights that could get you out of Ketchican?:D

[Christine Frances]

Good plan and works fantastically in theory, but I understand that there were other issues in trying to do this as well. Were there standard flights that could get you out of Ketchican?:D

 

Alaska Airlines - a 1:30 hr non stop to Seattle and they fly to Anchorage as well

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Germancruiser]

Great report ....xman- what regretable circumstances! This " Chris- guy" should learn some mannors! I hope esp. mention him in your letter to X. I am sure X could have handled the situation much better! Oh dear what a mess!

What I absolutly don´t get is why they did not go on one pod to the port of call where the cruise would have ended- much easier- or is it not allowed to sail with passenger on one POD!? Millenium is sailing at 17 or so knots for the last four days...!

Michael

[gblotter]

Arrived at the airport around 12:15 PM and were directed to a maintenance hangar south of the main terminal. The hangar doors were wide open and it was a raw, cool day. Chairs had been delivered for us to sit on, and the only food was bottled water and granola bars. The Go Team promised us pizza later in the day, and, in fact, it was delivered, and it was awful. Many of us walked over to the main terminal where it was, at least, warmer and we could stay indoors. The Miami Air B-737 arrived around 3:00 PM, but there was no TSA checkpoint set up until around 4:00 PM, and it was manned by Miami Air employees, not TSA agents. A few members of the Go Team, particularly a fellow named Chris, started bossing us around, telling us to sit down and not stand up until we were called to join the TSA line. I don't have to tell you that I did not appreciate being treated like a child, and I made my feelings known to a Celebrity higher-up as we walked across the tarmac to board the plane. We were onboard at 5:15 PM after spending five cold, raw hours at the airport in very uncomfortable conditions, with only one bathroom in the hangar that you wouldn't send your worst enemy to. Others on the ship were evacuated by the 1:30 PM deadline and had to wait until 10:30 PM to board their flights.

We know other passengers who also left on Saturday bound for Anchorage and they told a similar story. I think they were on your same 5:15pm flight in fact. They said that Thursday was by far the worst experience of the entire week with deteriorating conditions and only a thin veil of organization.

 

The crew onboard the Millenium were wonderful, and did their jobs magnificently under trying conditions. It was unfortunate to see so many of them (including our cabin steward and other waitstaff from the restaurants) at the Ketchikan airport when we were leaving. We were told they were given a week's pay and sent home, as many had contracts that were expiring at the end of the Alaska season and were sent off the ship with the rest of us.

I feared things would end badly for the crew. I encountered a worker at the spa desk who was in tears because she had just been told that her contract would be terminated early. I felt very sorry for all of them.

 

In my opinion, Celebrity really dropped the ball during the final 48 hours on board.

Without doubt.

 

We were fortunate to evacuate Millennium on the 9pm Wednesday night flight to Vancouver. We felt grateful that our flight was only 2 hours late in departing. We actually had a fairly happy ending to our vacation. But as our plane was taking off on Wednesday, we had a feeling that things would not end as well for those still on the ship. Not exactly the Saigon airlift, but we were glad to get out when we did just the same.

[Cruisebaza]

My experiences were exactly like ccsuwxman. In fact, I was on the same flight. As a result of the hanger incident, I have had a sore throat and cold for the past few days. I also intend to ask for additional consideration for that and other reasons.

 

I will re-iterate the point made before by others and myself: One of the main issues were the lack of consideration by the senior managers of the Millennium crew about the guests. The lack of communications, the lack of consideration in sending people to random airports, the leaving us out in the hanger are all symptoms of the same root cause: a Captain and senior team that cared not about their guests. The go-team and other crew members tried their best to work around that!

 

That's just my opinion...I could be wrong :)!

 

Cruisebaza

[MicCanberra]

My experiences were exactly like ccsuwxman. In fact, I was on the same flight. As a result of the hanger incident, I have had a sore throat and cold for the past few days. I also intend to ask for additional consideration for that and other reasons.

 

I will re-iterate the point made before by others and myself: One of the main issues were the lack of consideration by the senior managers of the Millennium crew about the guests. The lack of communications, the lack of consideration in sending people to random airports, the leaving us out in the hanger are all symptoms of the same root cause: a Captain and senior team that cared not about their guests. The go-team and other crew members tried their best to work around that!

 

That's just my opinion...I could be wrong :)!

 

Cruisebaza

A major failing, bad communication or none at all, makes any situation that much worse.

[Aloha 1]

Great report ....xman- what regretable circumstances! This " Chris- guy" should learn some mannors! I hope esp. mention him in your letter to X. I am sure X could have handled the situation much better! Oh dear what a mess!

What I absolutly don´t get is why they did not go on one pod to the port of call where the cruise would have ended- much easier- or is it not allowed to sail with passenger on one POD!? Millenium is sailing at 17 or so knots for the last four days...!

Michael

 

My understanding from another poster is that the U.S. Coast Guard would not allow the ship to leave with any passengers on it.

[Bfson]

Here is an article about RCI owning 40% of the shipyard in the Bahamas.

 

http://www.dnv.com/industry/maritime/publicationsanddownloads/publications/updates/cruise/2011/cruise_1_2011/thegrandbahamashipyardatfreeportbahamas.asp