Cost Cutting in full Swing

[jayisgerman]

Hello All -

 

We just returned from our Westerdam journey and overall had a good holiday. I will write a more detailed review/trip report later (isn't it pesky to have to catch up on work when you return! :D).

 

However, the one thing we did notice were all the little things that have been "downsized" or just plain disappeared. (Some of these have been mentioned in these threads in the past, so I realize it's not necessarily "news".) I can only assume it is a cost cutting initiative, but in my opinion - it all adds up with the overall cruise experience... :o

 

--> Neptune Lounge: still no sideboard service and even the sign was removed (which stated you can ask for other items). Our concierge said the hotel manager did not like the sign and told the concierges that "people can just ask you". We did it only once (just for a couple cookies) and it became a major ordeal and made us feel awkward - so never again.

 

--> Elevator Mats - no more day of the week mats

 

--> Formal Nights - no more chair covers

 

--> Captain's Welcome Toast - only done 1 time now, 2nd night in front of the early show. So, if you happen to be seated at dinner that time - out of luck! I guess they are saving that 1 glass of free sparkling wine for another 300 passengers or so. I suppose the rest of us weren're really welcome. Ha!

 

--> Menus - no more "papyrous style" paper for the formal menus or International scroll menu

 

--> Bedtime Chocolate - no more HAL coins, just plain milk chocolate in golden wrapper

 

--> Small Toiletries - we were given 1 soap only, and 1 lotion. Every time I would ask for more, they would give 1 - but only twice, then they would no longer give any more. I guess the little Elemis soaps and lotions must have gone up in price too much on the world market. :eek:

 

--> After dinner coffess - DH always had a cappucino after dinner in the MDR, but just did not want to bother with them being a "surcharge". Just did not want to do the whole "whip out the card once more" thing. He still enjoyed them in the Neptune Lounge, though the machine was frequently in ill repair and very moody. It spit hot steaming milk all over my hands one time when trying to get a beverage. OUCH! :eek:

 

--> Entertainment - WOW - that was a big letdown and sign of cost cutting. 6 nights out of 7 were song shows/dance shows with the crew they already had on board. No comedians, nothing. 1 Magician, but that was it. I really enjoy a good song/dance show occassionally, but how many times can you sit and watch the same singers and dancers or HAL Cats, just in different costumes and on a different stage background? The kicker to me was this: They now have BB Kings Blues Club every night in the Queen's Lounge. Well - one night they made them the "star attraction" in the Vista. WHAT? I mean, you just switched venues and call it a "show"? Very cheap of them.

 

--> BINGO was a complete letdown and not to mention a very sloppily dressed host (Mark), which could have cared less and might as well have read the phone book to us. The pots were insanely small. First Bingo went for $96, second for $121. Did not go over $250 for the final. Sheesch... paying $35 for a full card, you might as well save your time and breath. I realize some of this has to do with how many people buy in - but seemed to me that Seattle is taking a bigger cut now. :confused:

 

--> Late Night Dessert Extravaganze - Gone! No mas! Nichts mehr! Just disappeared and not even a scaled down version on the Lido or such. Sad.

 

Anyway, there was probably more along these lines of "cheapening" the experience. Though we rolled with it and still had a lovely time - it will stick with us.

[DaveOKC]

I had somewhat the same experience in Sept on the Westerdam - the Neptune Lounge had the sign to ask for certain items, and when we did it became a major production - not worth the effort IMO. Very disappointing.....

 

DaveOKC

[startwin]

Hello All -

 

We just returned from our Westerdam journey and overall had a good holiday. I will write a more detailed review/trip report later (isn't it pesky to have to catch up on work when you return! :D).

 

However, the one thing we did notice were all the little things that have been "downsized" or just plain disappeared. (Some of these have been mentioned in these threads in the past, so I realize it's not necessarily "news".) I can only assume it is a cost cutting initiative, but in my opinion - it all adds up with the overall cruise experience... :o

 

--> Neptune Lounge: still no sideboard service and even the sign was removed (which stated you can ask for other items). Our concierge said the hotel manager did not like the sign and told the concierges that "people can just ask you". We did it only once (just for a couple cookies) and it became a major ordeal and made us feel awkward - so never again.

 

--> Elevator Mats - no more day of the week mats

 

--> Formal Nights - no more chair covers

 

--> Captain's Welcome Toast - only done 1 time now, 2nd night in front of the early show. So, if you happen to be seated at dinner that time - out of luck! I guess they are saving that 1 glass of free sparkling wine for another 300 passengers or so. I suppose the rest of us weren're really welcome. Ha!

 

--> Menus - no more "papyrous style" paper for the formal menus or International scroll menu

 

--> Bedtime Chocolate - no more HAL coins, just plain milk chocolate in golden wrapper

 

--> Small Toiletries - we were given 1 soap only, and 1 lotion. Every time I would ask for more, they would give 1 - but only twice, then they would no longer give any more. I guess the little Elemis soaps and lotions must have gone up in price too much on the world market. :eek:

 

--> After dinner coffess - DH always had a cappucino after dinner in the MDR, but just did not want to bother with them being a "surcharge". Just did not want to do the whole "whip out the card once more" thing. He still enjoyed them in the Neptune Lounge, though the machine was frequently in ill repair and very moody. It spit hot steaming milk all over my hands one time when trying to get a beverage. OUCH! :eek:

 

--> Entertainment - WOW - that was a big letdown and sign of cost cutting. 6 nights out of 7 were song shows/dance shows with the crew they already had on board. No comedians, nothing. 1 Magician, but that was it. I really enjoy a good song/dance show occassionally, but how many times can you sit and watch the same singers and dancers or HAL Cats, just in different costumes and on a different stage background? The kicker to me was this: They now have BB Kings Blues Club every night in the Queen's Lounge. Well - one night they made them the "star attraction" in the Vista. WHAT? I mean, you just switched venues and call it a "show"? Very cheap of them.

 

--> BINGO was a complete letdown and not to mention a very sloppily dressed host (Mark), which could have cared less and might as well have read the phone book to us. The pots were insanely small. First Bingo went for $96, second for $121. Did not go over $250 for the final. Sheesch... paying $35 for a full card, you might as well save your time and breath. I realize some of this has to do with how many people buy in - but seemed to me that Seattle is taking a bigger cut now. :confused:

 

--> Late Night Dessert Extravaganze - Gone! No mas! Nichts mehr! Just disappeared and not even a scaled down version on the Lido or such. Sad.

 

Anyway, there was probably more along these lines of "cheapening" the experience. Though we rolled with it and still had a lovely time - it will stick with us.

 

 

Sounds the same as our Zuiderdam cruise in August/September - apart from the Neptune Lounge bit. So I'm actually quite relieved there have been no further cuts!

[mamaofami]

It does seem that there is cost cutting in many areas. Just think about the laundry cost for cleaning all those white jackets on the MDR chairs.

 

What bothers me the most is the loss of stewards for the MDR and cabins and the downgrading of the quality of meat.

[hrhdhd]

The soap thing is weird to me given the emphasis on washing one's hands frequently so as to avoid getting sick.

 

When we got to our Neptune Suite last month, there was an already used bar of soap waiting for us in the shower :eek: and a new one on the counter. When I asked for a couple of bars, we got one. So the type of cabin appears to make no difference.

 

I assume they just missed the soap while getting the cabin ready, but let's hope it's not a sign of things to come.

Edited December 10, 2013 by hrhdhd

[Jade13]

The soap thing is weird to me given the emphasis on washing one's hands frequently so as to avoid getting sick.

 

When we got to our Neptune Suite last month, there was an already used bar of soap waiting for us in the shower :eek: and a new one on the counter. When I asked for a couple of bars, we got one. So the type of cabin appears to make no difference.

 

I assume they just missed the soap while getting the cabin ready, but let's hope it's not a sign of things to come.

 

Gross.

[SilvertoGold]

The soap thing is weird to me given the emphasis on washing one's hands frequently so as to avoid getting sick.

 

When we got to our Neptune Suite last month, there was an already used bar of soap waiting for us in the shower :eek: and a new one on the counter. When I asked for a couple of bars, we got one. So the type of cabin appears to make no difference.

 

I assume they just missed the soap while getting the cabin ready, but let's hope it's not a sign of things to come.

 

 

Soap: yes! HAL needs to smarten up: anything to help prevent Norwalk is a good thing and there should be LOTS of soap available, period.

[Jade13]

Hello All -

 

 

However, the one thing we did notice were all the little things that have been "downsized" or just plain disappeared. --> Neptune Lounge: still no sideboard service and even the sign was removed (which stated you can ask for other items). Our concierge said the hotel manager did not like the sign and told the concierges that "people can just ask you".

 

--> Elevator Mats - no more day of the week mats

 

quote]

 

Sad

 

Is there still an ice carver?

 

Cloth towels in the public bathrooms?

 

Fresh flowers around the ship?

 

Yum Yum man handing out ginger and other sweets after dinner?

[Riversedge]

Although we do agree that there have been cost cutting measures (lack of enough staff in the dining room is #1 pet peeve for us) but we did experience some of the things you were lacking. We just returned from the Ryndam. We had the chair covers for formal nights and there were the daily floor mats in the elevators. We also had a late night dessert extravaganza. We didn't stay in a Neptune Suite so can't comment on that and don't play Bingo. We did have several different types of entertainers onboard...not just the crew cast. Wonder why it's so different on different ships?

[igraf]

That is OK with me. We would look at the dessert extravaganza but rarely ate any of it. Really, we get more than enough food on cruises and the desserts after dinner are sufficient for us.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

....

 

--> Late Night Dessert Extravaganze - Gone! No mas! Nichts mehr! Just disappeared and not even a scaled down version on the Lido or such. Sad.

 

....

[innlady1]

It does seem that there is cost cutting in many areas. Just think about the laundry cost for cleaning all those white jackets on the MDR chairs.

 

What bothers me the most is the loss of stewards for the MDR and cabins and the downgrading of the quality of meat.

 

Same here. The other stuff I can live without and it doesn't affect the overall cruise. Although, I have to say, we had the "days of the week" mats on the Nieuw Amsterdam...and on Ryndam last winter. Is that only Westerdam? Also, we had the white chair covers on the Nieuw Amsterdam...I could easily live without those...but they were there.

 

So, is it possible that the staff on each ship decides what they want to eliminate or not?

[innlady1]

 

Is there still an ice carver?

 

Cloth towels in the public bathrooms?

 

Fresh flowers around the ship?

 

Yum Yum man handing out ginger and other sweets after dinner?

 

Yes...to all of the above. At least on the Nieuw Amsterdam in October.

 

I wonder if the Staff on the Westerdam is doing these cuts on their own?

[Wakepatrol]

Very sad to read this. I wonder how far away the day is,where people feel there's nothing special anymore so why even bother?

[DaveOKC]

Same here. The other stuff I can live without and it doesn't affect the overall cruise. Although, I have to say, we had the "days of the week" mats on the Nieuw Amsterdam...and on Ryndam last winter. Is that only Westerdam? Also, we had the white chair covers on the Nieuw Amsterdam...I could easily live without those...but they were there.

 

So, is it possible that the staff on each ship decides what they want to eliminate or not?

 

On a recent Pacific Coastal we noticed a number of things that we eliminated versus our Coastal cruises the previous two years. I came to the conclusion that it is ship dependent - each one makes their own decision.

 

I think HAL should be more consistant from ship to ship - it would eliminate the disappointments consumers are experiencing IMO. As they say "the best surprise is no surprise".

 

DaveOKC

Edited December 10, 2013 by DaveOKC

[jayisgerman]

Hello All -

 

 

However, the one thing we did notice were all the little things that have been "downsized" or just plain disappeared. --> Neptune Lounge: still no sideboard service and even the sign was removed (which stated you can ask for other items). Our concierge said the hotel manager did not like the sign and told the concierges that "people can just ask you".

 

--> Elevator Mats - no more day of the week mats

 

quote]

 

Sad

 

Is there still an ice carver?

 

Cloth towels in the public bathrooms?

 

Fresh flowers around the ship?

 

Yum Yum man handing out ginger and other sweets after dinner?

 

No, there was no ice carver. Yes, cloth towels in bathrooms. The flowers were very, very sad looking about 2 days into the cruise and never did get refreshed. At day 7 they were just brown and wilted and hanging all their heads.

Yes, candy man was there.

[Spinner2]

There must be some differences between ships, or classes of ships, for we just got off the Statendam and our experience differed in some respects, but was the same in others. To note just a few:

 

In the Neptune Lounge, the sideboard had the usual cookies, cake, candies, etc. Things that didn't need refrigeration.

 

We got the papyrus menus each day, but they did arrive later than we've seen them in the past.

 

Plenty of soap! When we arrived there was a wrapped (new!) round in the bathroom sink soap holder, with an extra on the counter for the shower/tub. And there was another in the soap holder at the little sink by the closets. There was always an extra on the counter there too. Everyone also got a travel-size pump-spray of hand disinfectant to take ashore; we liked it better than the little bottles that we've gotten in the past. I'd rather have the small bottles of shampoo and such than the dispensers, but I liked the loofah-type mitt, with the bath salts that was provided, and replaced every time I used the bath salts.

 

We had the usual production shows, with the cast size that's been around for the past year, but on a 31-day cruise there could still only be the number of shows they can carry onboard. Most of the other evening showroom entertainment was solo/small group music; I would have liked more comedy, magic; etc. as we had only 2-3. On the overnights in port there was either nothing special in the showroom or local dancers came aboard. Given how many people weren't on the ship during those hours I thought that was appropriate. We had 3 performances of whatever it was most nights: 6:30, 8:30 and 10 pm which we really liked.

 

Day mats in the elevators were present, but I think that's always been a ship-class related thing; it's been my understanding that Vista ships never had them. Thank goodness for the mats; as my DH remarked, we'd fail a neurological exam that asks what day it is as without the mats we'd never know and we tend to have no idea what the calendar date is without looking at the Locations planner.

 

We had a nice dessert extravaganza which may have been a little smaller than usual but there was a chocolate fountain, plenty of desserts; there was a crepe station which we always enjoy.

 

There were cloth towels in the public bathrooms(I borrowed one to take ashore to use as an emergency restroom towel and yes, I returned it to the dirty towel bin when I didn't need it any longer), fresh flowers, not sure how many arrangements; I remember the ones on the dining table because they were vibrating in such an interesting pattern on rough seas night!, and there was an ice carving out at at least one MDR event. There were chair covers on at formal nights and the dining stewards had on their "formal" jackets those nights. The Yum Yum man was available (both levels!) and both were chiming in the dinner hour. I was happy to see a return of the chimes as we've missed that on recent cruises. He only dispenses a single mint; I guess you could ask for more.

 

I too wish we still had the HAL chocolates; there's nothing wrong with the ones they are using but the HAL ones were fun. What I really, really missed was the massed crew to sing "Love in Any Language" as the farewell at the disembarkation talk. I don't mind not having "the talk" as the letter explaining disembarkation was short and clear, and surely all the explanation even new people needed. I found filling out the surveys much easier online at home; but we've always enjoyed the singing of the crew. At the final dinner many of the crew filled the stairways in the MDR and some of the language that usually introduced the song was used and we thought they would sing it then, but it was the introduction to the usual song that's sung the last night at dinner. We wanted to hear that one too, of course!

 

We did pay for the after-dinner coffees of course; we'll just have to live with that. Our TA gave us a drinks gift card that we used for the coffees but regardless, some card has to be handed over which is a little inconvenient. It may be more of a hassle for the dining staff than it is for us.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Spinner2

[hypercafe]

Carnival Corp has had a lot of problems, the Costa problem and the Carnival problems. They are in to getting all the money out of a ship that they can. This means cutting costs and cutting maintenance. HAL has a big problem as the ships are old and small so they carry a small number of pas and due to the condition of the ships they can not charge a high price. I would only expect HAL to get worse.

[geocruiser]

Very sad to read this. I wonder how far away the day is,where people feel there's nothing special anymore so why even bother?

 

This is so true. The ships keep getting bigger and the prices on a lot of cruises are going down. Too many rooms to fill with PAX. HAL could fill a hole in the cruise industry that is void. They need to look closer at the other main stream cruise lines and just be better than them. Is it that hard to do? A lot of PAX will pay a couple of $$ extra for good service. What good is a cheap cruise, if you did not like it.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Just a couple of comments regarding cutbacks. Personally I do not think it is anymore than what has already occurred but just a few things I want to mention.

 

First the Caribbean sailings on in shoulder season meaning those that are very cheap to begin with and that they literally had to give away cabins over all do have a much lower budget to work with compared to the peak season or holiday cruises. When the average priced cabins is 1/4 the cost that it normally is there will always be budget cuts for those sailings involved. Anywhere from food and beverage to possibly crew. Most business run this way and cut backs will occur during this time.

It was mentioned but no day of the week rugs in the elevator, this ship never had them from the beginning. None of the Vista Class had them but I believe they were added to the Oosterdam when they replaced her carpet 2 years ago.

 

As for soaps and amenities in the bathroom, sadly that has nothing to do with what HAL perceives is in your cabin it has everything to do with the cabin steward. The cabins stewards do have a lot to do and they look for ways to cut back. I have had my last 3 HAL cruises have water added to the liquid soap dispensers. My last cabin steward went as far as to admit he just added water. I think many of these things are common practice among the cabin stewards and they push to see how far they can go. Doe Management know yes but they are looking the other way because yes they are using less products there for saving the bottom line for their department.

Covers on the chairs for formal night, my understanding they are leaving that up to each ship. Some of the ships had new covers made that are a stretchy nylon that do not show wrinkles. Where other ships still had the cotton ones that in all honesty looked quite tacky. Not having these covers is not necessarily a cut back and should probably be taken away to begin with.

The Late Night Dessert Extravaganza falls into the spending expenses of your cruise. If the average price of the cruise was cheap then this would be where the Food and Beverage Department could easily cut back..... and frankly from reading CC most do not even participate any longer. I frankly have not gone in many many years so would not miss it. I believe they most likely had a loss when it come to this. There only hope is that the Beverage Department can sell more Beverages to turn a profit.

It will be interesting to read reports from those that are sailing the None Caribbean Holiday Sailings, all of them have been quite high in price. Some of the Caribbean ones have been too but some HAL has had to reduce pricing.

 

I think you have to look at it if you owned the business what you you do to stay in the black?

[geocruiser]

Carnival Corp has had a lot of problems, the Costa problem and the Carnival problems. They are in to getting all the money out of a ship that they can. This means cutting costs and cutting maintenance. HAL has a big problem as the ships are old and small so they carry a small number of pas and due to the condition of the ships they can not charge a high price. I would only expect HAL to get worse.

 

Some of HAL ships are small and older. But is the cruise is great and service is wonderful the cabins will sell. Azamara and O have some ship that are the same age as HAL.

[Krazy Kruizers]

The last couple of times we have sailed on the Westerdam -- there were never any of the cloth covers for the chairs in the dining room on formal nights.

I do not like the fact that this ship also has show times of 7 and 9 PM as compared to the other ships. As a result we have not seen a show on that ship in many years.

I can't ever remember that ship having the days of the week in the elevators.

We did have an afternoon dessert extravaganza last spring in the Atrium. I can see why it has been stopped on many ships -- there was a lot of waste.

I think all ships have now changed to the cheap new pillow chocolates. We had them on our recent Nieuw Amsterdam cruise. I tried one -- too sickenly sweet for me.

[Wakepatrol]

Just a couple of comments regarding cutbacks. Personally I do not think it is anymore than what has already occurred but just a few things I want to mention.

 

First the Caribbean sailings on in shoulder season meaning those that are very cheap to begin with and that they literally had to give away cabins over all do have a much lower budget to work with compared to the peak season or holiday cruises. When the average priced cabins is 1/4 the cost that it normally is there will always be budget cuts for those sailings involved. Anywhere from food and beverage to possibly crew. Most business run this way and cut backs will occur during this time.

It was mentioned but no day of the week rugs in the elevator, this ship never had them from the beginning. None of the Vista Class had them but I believe they were added to the Oosterdam when they replaced her carpet 2 years ago.

 

As for soaps and amenities in the bathroom, sadly that has nothing to do with what HAL perceives is in your cabin it has everything to do with the cabin steward. The cabins stewards do have a lot to do and they look for ways to cut back. I have had my last 3 HAL cruises have water added to the liquid soap dispensers. My last cabin steward went as far as to admit he just added water. I think many of these things are common practice among the cabin stewards and they push to see how far they can go. Doe Management know yes but they are looking the other way because yes they are using less products there for saving the bottom line for their department.

Covers on the chairs for formal night, my understanding they are leaving that up to each ship. Some of the ships had new covers made that are a stretchy nylon that do not show wrinkles. Where other ships still had the cotton ones that in all honesty looked quite tacky. Not having these covers is not necessarily a cut back and should probably be taken away to begin with.

The Late Night Dessert Extravaganza falls into the spending expenses of your cruise. If the average price of the cruise was cheap then this would be where the Food and Beverage Department could easily cut back..... and frankly from reading CC most do not even participate any longer. I frankly have not gone in many many years so would not miss it. I believe they most likely had a loss when it come to this. There only hope is that the Beverage Department can sell more Beverages to turn a profit.

It will be interesting to read reports from those that are sailing the None Caribbean Holiday Sailings, all of them have been quite high in price. Some of the Caribbean ones have been too but some HAL has had to reduce pricing.

 

I think you have to look at it if you owned the business what you you do to stay in the black?

 

Excellent post as usual. The part that's slightly problematic in my opinion is. How to hook the "Newbie" like they did you and I one time.

 

Dead flowers, watered down soap dispensers, no dessert extravaganza, etc.

Does not sound enticing enough to come back IMO

 

I've been saying for years, Hal should start a marketing campaign of elegance, have a steward bring you to your room etc. why any company wants to be like everybody else is baffling

 

If you're not the lead dog... The scenery never changes.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Wakepatrol

[hypercafe]

Some of HAL ships are small and older. But is the cruise is great and service is wonderful the cabins will sell. Azamara and O have some ship that are the same age as HAL.

 

What I was trying to say is IMHO HAL ships are run down. On my last trip the ship had major AC and plumbing problems. Big cuts in service personal. Carnival seems to me to be taking money from HAL without making any investments in upgrades or maintenance on the ships. The only way small ships can make money today is to be able to charge a high price for the cruise. Azamara and Oceania can, HAL can not.

[CruiserBruce]

I find it hard to understand how the addition of the BB King group, which have received rave reviews here, is a sign of cost cutting.

[kazu]

Excellent post as usual. The part that's slightly problematic in my opinion is. How to hook the "Newbie" like they did you and I one time.

 

Dead flowers, watered down soap dispensers, no dessert extravaganza, etc.

Does not sound enticing enough to come back IMO

 

I've been saying for years, Hal should start a marketing campaign of elegance, have a steward bring you to your room etc. why any company wants to be like everybody else is baffling

 

If you're not the lead dog... The scenery never changes.

 

Totally agree. I've never had watered down soap or lack of soap and if we did and the steward didn't want to help then I would be picking up the phone or hitting the front desk. I've never had a problem with the stewards providing what we ask for - but who knows what is around the bend on the next cruise.

 

Years ago, the stewards did accompany you to your stateroom. They were all waiting and welcoming. Those times left years ago (unless you book a PS and that varies from ship to ship

 

The Prinsendam, which has a higher price tag - had so many fresh flowers being replenished - your head would spin. And they were all glorious. Totally agree - if the HAL is going to be elegant let it be elegant. At the least, choose some ships (perchance the smaller ones that carry some higher prices anyways) and market it accordingly and PROVIDE it.

 

I would bet that many of us would be willing to pay more for the amenities that make HAL special. We certainly do on the Prinsendam and haven't regretted it yet :)