Oceania Refused My Service Dog.

[Iceberg 3]

Brian - you may take exception, but HawaiiDan is not making this stuff up.

[Pet Nit Noy]

At the least, I hope any US organization that provides service animals will become pro-active and outfit all its animals with a microchip before placing them with a person.

 

I'm referencing my earlier post, but I just realized the chips may hold the key to curbing abuse of folks who simply buy the vest and a patch to bring a pet on board. At the moment, we're talking about the Chip program as a means of potentially bringing US service animals ashore at foreign ports, but that same chip has potential domestically.

 

I know that a cruise line may not legally ask questions about a person's disability. However, if every organization that trains and places service animals puts a micro chip in the service animal, I wonder if government organizations or companies acting in their stead (i.e. the cruise ship that is letting a service animal on board) might be within their rights to ask for the chip ID number of the service animal.

 

If the cruiser can produce a verifiable chip number, then the animal comes on board no further questions asked. It doesn't matter if the cruiser has no visible disability. It doesn't matter if a cruiser temporarily displays able-bodied behavior. A chip from a recognized training organization trumps other people's suspicion, guesses, hunches, etc.

 

If the chips have an ID number that in some way is coded to the training organization that issued the animal, I think most organizations would only issue the chips legitimately for fear of losing their tax exempt status.

 

I suspect there will always be folks who try to circumvent the laws/regulations. There might be someone wealthy enough to give a major charitable contribution with the expectation that the receiving charity would implant a chip in a family pet who has no more service training than the average chair. But I've got to believe that the frequency of abuses will go way down. No reputable charitable organization is going to jeopardize it's legal status for the current cost of a vest and a patch.

 

And, finally, this abuse may sort itself out the first time a non-trained service animal harms another passenger. The understandable reluctance to check on the bona fides of an animal may evaporate the first time a cruise ship/airplane/etc. is facing a law suit.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Pet Nit Noy

[I_r_a]

Hi JD,

 

Sorry to hear how shoddily you were treated by "customer service".

 

Have you checked the rules for bringing animals into the UK and other parts of call on the "Path of the Midnight Sun" route?

 

Ira

[Mura]

Yes there are service monkeys....I for one don't even want to think of what services they perform...

 

 

Well, taking your comment at face value -- I have read that monkeys can be handy for retrieving items, giving the owner the telephone, and such. Lots of dogs apparently can do the same, but at least the monkeys have opposable thumbs. Or I assume they do!

 

No, I don't have a service animal although I do have a cat that I dearly love. He would be of no help in the service capacity, however!

 

Mura

[beardedshark]

 

Yes there are service monkeys...

.I for one don't even want to think of what services they perform...

 

 

I get it Dan. Made me laugh:)

Edited March 10, 2014 by beardedshark

[Pet Nit Noy]

... In the US, a vendor is barred from any and ALL question or inquiry as to the validity of the said service dog, chicken or monkey. You can not ask any question whatsoever related to the situation...none

 

As I indicated in an earlier post, I thought this statement was correct. In the process of checking in to a flight on Southwest, I came across the following text. It seems to state that the pretext for bringing the family dog on board is legally open to question by the carriers. (My emphasis added). Southwest has probably researched its rights on this topic.

 

 

Trained Assistance Animals

 

Southwest Airlines welcomes trained assistance animals accompanying a Customer with a disability on all of our flights. Except when too large to be safely accommodated, a trained assistance animal will be transported in the aircraft cabin. In accordance with federal safety regulations, the animal must be positioned so as not to obstruct Customers' expeditious evacuation in the unlikely event of an emergency.

 

Trained assistance animals will be allowed to travel on flights to/from all domestic and international destinations with the exception of Jamaica. No animals will be allowed to travel to/from Jamaica on Southwest Airlines under any circumstances due to country-specific regulations.

 

View Service Animal Relief Area locations by airport

 

Emotional Support Animals

 

Animals used for a Customer's emotional support are accepted in the cabin. Emotional support animals will be allowed to travel on flights to/from all domestic and international destinations with the exception of Jamaica. No animals will be allowed to travel to/from Jamaica on Southwest Airlines under any circumstances due to country-specific regulations. In order for a Customer to travel with an emotional support animal, the Customer must provide to a Southwest Airlines Employee current documentation (not more than one year old) on letterhead from a mental health professional or medical doctor who is treating the Customer's mental health-related disability stating:

 

The Passenger has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM IV)

The Passenger needs the emotional support of psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at the passenger's destination

The individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional, and the Passenger is under his or her professional care AND

The date and type of mental health professional's or medical doctor's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued

Assistance and emotional support animals must be trained to behave in a public setting. Customers traveling with an assistance animal or an emotional support animal cannot sit in an emergency exit seat.

 

Printable instructions for Traveling with an Emotional Support Animal (PDF).

Edited March 10, 2014 by Pet Nit Noy

[waterbug123]

In the US, a vendor is barred from any and ALL question or inquiry as to the validity of the said service dog, chicken or monkey. You can not ask any question whatsoever related to the situation...none

This is where the problem lies

 

Actually, if I'm not mistaken there ARE some questions that can legally be asked. You cannot ask about the person's disability specifically, but I believe you CAN ask 1) if the animal is a service animal, and 2) what tasks the animal is trained to do.

[Hawaiidan]

I get it Dan. Made me laugh:)

 

It was written with that tome in mind. I was trying to picture a dining room with monkeys feeding people and answering their cell phones. Makes you think.... dining on Noah's Ark. I mentioned monkys having observed them in the zoo as a child and observing their predilections!!!!! ( are the really doing that)

 

What truly has to be defined is what disabilities are to be considered for allowing a service animal.... Blind, etc I can see the need. However, supposed I have water anxiety....or fear of clouds, where some flake doctor can make up any disorder to suit. ( and there are more than a few just waiting for your check to give any thing you want).

 

I only mention this because of the rapid rise of drug use for "medical" permits.... People with all sorts of truly far out disorders which appear in direct proportion to their desire to get loaded.

 

Ah, yes people.....

[worldspan]

Shame on Oceania!

 

Worldspan

[alexspepa]

Shame on Oceania!

 

Worldspan

 

I think that is an unfair comment; have you read the entire thread?

Edited March 10, 2014 by alexspepa

[Noxequifans]

Dan ... thanks for a humorous slant. On the serious side, Oceania has a clear policy for a number of valid reasons. There is no ambiguity on this.

[JimandStan]

Dan ... thanks for a humorous slant. On the serious side, Oceania has a clear policy for a number of valid reasons. There is no ambiguity on this.

 

 

+1 Very well said!

[LHT28]

Dan ... thanks for a humorous slant. On the serious side, Oceania has a clear policy for a number of valid reasons. There is no ambiguity on this.

 

+ 1

It is in black & white for people to read before they book

[travelglobetrotter]

Upon reading the title of this thread, I was taken aback, but I do think, upon reading the entire thread, that there is a clear policy stated. It's always good to know the policies. Here in Phoenix, at the city owned theaters, the only service animals allowed are dogs and miniature horses. As a volunteer usher, I have seen only service dogs, and while there are ample accommodations for patrons with disabilities, the box office cannot ask whether a patron is disabled when he/she is buying seats that cater to those with disabilities. I'm not sure just how a miniature horse service animal would actually work out with the seating arrangements available, but it's interesting to speculate.

[cbb]

In thinking of the service dog on a sea day I know how one could exercise the dog and feed the dog, but where would this wonderful animal relieve itself?

[Mura]

As a volunteer usher, I have seen only service dogs, and while there are ample accommodations for patrons with disabilities, the box office cannot ask whether a patron is disabled when he/she is buying seats that cater to those with disabilities. I'm not sure just how a miniature horse service animal would actually work out with the seating arrangements available, but it's interesting to speculate.

 

I do have to agree about having a miniature horse in a theater. At least it was a miniature horse! But if theater fusses about where a person in a wheelchair can sit, what do they do with a horse, even a miniature one?

 

 

 

Cbb, when I first saw this thread the first thing that occurred to me was where does the animal relieve itself. On QE2 they had kennels, and the animals stayed there. You could visit your pet but not take it out. I'm sure there was a reason for that!

 

I myself have never seen a service animal on a ship but in reading this thread it appears that it does happen. I'm glad for people who truly need a service animal for them to have the animal available, but have to admit that there are problems in accommodating everyone ... various national laws not withstanding.

 

Mura

[LHT28]

In thinking of the service dog on a sea day I know how one could exercise the dog and feed the dog, but where would this wonderful animal relieve itself?

 

Same place they go other days ;)

 

Some Ships usually have little pads that look like grass where the animals go ...so I have read

People who have the dogs are responsible in feeding them in their cabins I guess

Edited March 11, 2014 by LHT28

[newbie60]

I do have to agree about having a miniature horse in a theater. At least it was a miniature horse! But if theater fusses about where a person in a wheelchair can sit, what do they do with a horse, even a miniature one?

 

 

 

Cbb, when I first saw this thread the first thing that occurred to me was where does the animal relieve itself. On QE2 they had kennels, and the animals stayed there. You could visit your pet but not take it out. I'm sure there was a reason for that!

 

I myself have never seen a service animal on a ship but in reading this thread it appears that it does happen. I'm glad for people who truly need a service animal for them to have the animal available, but have to admit that there are problems in accommodating everyone ... various national laws not withstanding.

 

Mura

 

A couple of years ago we sat next to a blind woman with her gorgeous service dog on a 4 hour flight LAX-ORD and we chatted with this well traveled lady the whole time.

 

She told us that she and her husband cruise a lot (didn't ask what cruise line since it wasn't important for the conversation) and the dog is provided with a small grassy area (perhaps fake) at a certain location on an outer deck. She said it had never been a problem.

 

Again - not talking about cruise line or countries visited, just the potty break!

[Elaine5715]

This might help the confusion...there is a difference between service animals and comfort animals. The Americans with Disabilities Act DOES NOT provide for comfort animals and as such accommodations can be denied.

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

[Tarpeian Rock]

A couple of years ago we sat next to a blind woman with her gorgeous service dog on a 4 hour flight LAX-ORD and we chatted with this well traveled lady the whole time.

 

She told us that she and her husband cruise a lot (didn't ask what cruise line since it wasn't important for the conversation) and the dog is provided with a small grassy area (perhaps fake) at a certain location on an outer deck. She said it had never been a problem.

 

Again - not talking about cruise line or countries visited, just the potty break!

 

 

 

We have seen those little grassy squares on the Eurodam twice, tucked away in a corner of the forward promenade deck, near the door to the mechanical room. Very out-of-the-way and non-intrusive.

[roothy123]

I have never cruised with a service animal (dog OR miniature horse). I'm sorry that the poster cannot go on the cruise of his/her choice with Oceania. However, I'm learning a lot from this post, so thank you everyone! In addition to the very enlightening information about various regulations, I'm also learning that yes, I should definitely take the time to read the fine print that Oceania (or any cruise line) puts out. Sometimes it's good (for example, the expansion of airports for "free air") and sometimes it's bad.

Edited March 16, 2014 by roothy123

[Suefranss]

I think it's an unfortunate decision for Oceania to make regardless of those who try to scam the system. Perhaps it is in black and white, but perhaps they should re-examine their position.

[billie5]

There have always been a lot of threads about service animals, and, for that matter, about PVSA. The one thing both of these types of threads have in common is the huge amount of misinformation the threads invariably have.

 

In that regard this particular thread is rather good. A lot of the misinformation has already been corrected. Like, for example, that emotional support animals are NOT service animals, and so not protected the way service animals are. In particular, one can demand the sort of documentation which would never be permitted for a service animal.

 

As far as comments about 4 - 6 month quarantines, those comments don't make a lot of sense, as they refer to animals entering the country, not those quarantined on the ship. Which, incidentally, makes it rather unlikely that a boatload of papers would have to be filled out for each animal, at least in my opinion.

 

 

I know that a cruise line may not legally ask questions about a person's disability. However, if every organization that trains and places service animals puts a micro chip in the service animal, I wonder if government organizations or companies acting in their stead (i.e. the cruise ship that is letting a service animal on board) might be within their rights to ask for the chip ID number of the service animal.

 

If the cruiser can produce a verifiable chip number, then the animal comes on board no further questions asked. It doesn't matter if the cruiser has no visible disability. It doesn't matter if a cruiser temporarily displays able-bodied behavior. A chip from a recognized training organization trumps other people's suspicion, guesses, hunches, etc.

 

If the chips have an ID number that in some way is coded to the training organization that issued the animal, I think most organizations would only issue the chips legitimately for fear of losing their tax exempt status.

 

I suspect there will always be folks who try to circumvent the laws/regulations. There might be someone wealthy enough to give a major charitable contribution with the expectation that the receiving charity would implant a chip in a family pet who has no more service training than the average chair. But I've got to believe that the frequency of abuses will go way down. No reputable charitable organization is going to jeopardize it's legal status for the current cost of a vest and a patch.

 

And, finally, this abuse may sort itself out the first time a non-trained service animal harms another passenger. The understandable reluctance to check on the bona fides of an animal may evaporate the first time a cruise ship/airplane/etc. is facing a law suit.

 

I think the post quoted above can easily lead to misunderstandings. ADA does not require that any training organization be involved in training one's service animal. Anyone, including the disabled individual him/herself or their 3rd cousin, can do the training (or claim they did!), and unless they happen to be veterinarians, they would not be able to imbed a chip. So the answer to your wonder is "of course not," neither a cruise company nor anyone else would be within their rights to deny entry to an animal without a chip.

 

As for checking on bona fides, it is against the law, whether or not there are lawsuits, just one or a zillion. Cruise ships/airplanes/etc. can not simply have their reluctance evaporate.

 

For what it is worth, I am disabled and I think the failure of ADA to insist on much better control over an animal owner being able to prove the animal really is a trained service animal is terrible. But the law at present is what it is, whether it makes sense or not.

[hypercafe]

In looking at Oceania's policy, if a trip includes a US port OK, if not NO, I feel they are obeying US law when it applies, when it does not it is easier for them to just say no. My reason is I can take cruise A which includes ports in many different countries including some that have very strict restrictions on animals. This trip does not touch a US port so no dog. I can take cruise B, the same as A except it goes to one US port. Now I can take a dog. What happened to those foreign country strict laws?

[LHT28]

In looking at Oceania's policy, if a trip includes a US port OK, if not NO, I feel they are obeying US law when it applies, when it does not it is easier for them to just say no. My reason is I can take cruise A which includes ports in many different countries including some that have very strict restrictions on animals. This trip does not touch a US port so no dog. I can take cruise B, the same as A except it goes to one US port. Now I can take a dog. What happened to those foreign country strict laws?

 

In some of the foreign ports even though cruise line may allow the dog onboard the port may NOT allow it ashore

 

People with service animals need to check all the details before they book a cruise