Furious with Holland America!

[kazu]

My mothers most valuable item was her back up trifocal glasses.

 

Mine unfortunately was a silver rope necklace. I would never usually put anything like that in my suitcase but in this situation on the last formal night I had taken off my jewelry and placed it in my evening bag. It was one of the last items I had put in the suitcase. My intention was to trade out the space with my toiletry bag in the morning prior to checking the suitcase in at the airport.

 

Fortunately my electronics, laptop and iphone were with me.

 

 

Rochelle

 

WOW!,,

 

DH 's back up glasses and my jewelry are always in our carry ons (as per HAL recommendations). If we need to carry an extra bag off and then put unnecessary stuff in the suitcase, so be it.

 

I don't think you can expect compensation for those items since HAL recommendations/instructions were not followed.

[serendipity1499]

Rochelle, I understand your position & feel sorry for you, but I've been cruising for more than 20 years & read all our documents & the Know before you go booklet every time we cruise... I'm sorry if I sound callous about your problem, but sometimes we must take responsibility for ourselves..

 

You state that it is HAL's duty to collect the bags and transport them to the terminal building. I don't believe that is true!

 

In every port I've been in, European ports including Rome (NCL in 2004) the Ships Stewards (in your case HAL) will collect baggage & place them in very large open bins on the ship.. Then unionized ground personnel (Baggage Handlers), collect these large bins with a large forklift (don't know the actual name of the machinery) & places them on the ground, then another baggage handler with a forklift takes the bin into the terminal, where other Baggage Handlers unload the bins & should place them where they belong.. We've never disembarked in the Netherlands, but must assume it's the same procedure there..

 

I would venture to guess that after the steward who took your bag placed it on the elevator, another steward unloaded it into a bin, & then two or three more people handled your luggage & put them either in the terminal or onto another conveyor belt to be sent to an different destination such as a hotel, or an airport, where they might end up in "lost & found" at the hotel or an airport..

 

Sometimes people forget & leave tags on their luggage from the time they board their incoming flights & check-in, which could also cause confusion for the Baggage Handlers.. No one knows where your luggage is & iit coulod have been placed in the wrong bin or it's very possible that someone in Rome walked off with your two bags, thinking they were theirs.. We've seen that happen on flights numerous times..

 

I realize insurance usually does not cover cash but in this case insurance would cover most of your losses.. However, it sometimes takes weeks for lost luggage to be discovered, & insurance will pay when all parties declare it missing..

 

Hopefully, both pieces of luggage might still be found, but suggest in the future you purchase insurance..

Edited July 8, 2014 by serendipity1499

[rochelle_s]

WOW!,,

 

DH 's back up glasses and my jewelry are always in our carry ons (as per HAL recommendations). If we need to carry an extra bag off and then put unnecessary stuff in the suitcase, so be it.

 

I don't think you can expect compensation for those items since HAL recommendations/instructions were not followed.

 

Point taken.

 

As to your earlier comment about the casino cards I think you might be right there also. My card did get a significant amount of use on this trip.

 

 

Rochelle

[sail7seas]

I would have never thought we would have that much in our bags also. We were really surprised how quickly it adds up and we do not have high end name brand clothes. As an example;

 

• 6 pairs of sock @ $5 each = $30
  
• 8 pars of underwear @ $15 each = $120
  
• 6 bras @ $38 each = $228
  

 

I am almost at $400 for basic underwear. Have not even started to add in clothes, shoes and formal wear for 3 nights. Then watch how quickly the little stuff adds up. We were amazed actually.

 

 

Rochelle

 

 

This I agree with.

It is not hard to have contents of a 28" suitcase add up to $4,000.

It doesn't have to be designer labels on garments but when you have leather shoes, a few handbags including an evening purse, three formal night outfits, a leather belt etc I don't think it outrageous you had contents totaling $4,000.

 

I hope your bags turn up.

 

[NMLady]

I will certainly be doing the same. The thought never crossed my mind when I place my bag outside on the last night of the cruise that it might not be there in the morning. I have never ever heard of this happening before. Rochelle

 

But you didn't place it outside your cabin for the assigned steward to take it. You handed it to a steward at the elevator. Not following the assigned procedure might account for it.

 

But even so, they should have been found somewhere. Did you have no luggage insurance at all? If you read your cruise contract they are not responsible for luggage, so that is why such a low payoff.

 

Personally I would have told that family of five to leave while I continued with the luggage problem. Then I would have taken a taxi. Extra time might not have helped, but it might have.

Did the family of 5 book a van? Is that why you were going with them?

[rochelle_s]

Rochelle, I understand your position & feel sorry for you, but I've been cruising for more than 20 years & read all our documents & the Know before you go booklet every time we cruise... I'm sorry if I sound callous about your problem, but sometimes we must take responsibility for ourselves..

 

You state that it is HAL's duty to collect the bags and transport them to the terminal building. I don't believe that is true!

 

In every port I've been in, European ports including Rome (NCL in 2004) the Ships Stewards (in your case HAL) will collect baggage & place them in very large open bins on the ship.. Then unionized ground personnel (Baggage Handlers), collect these large bins with a large forklift (don't know the actual name of the machinery) & places them on the ground, then another baggage handler with a forklift takes the bin into the terminal, where other Baggage Handlers unload the bins & should place them where they belong..

 

I would venture to guess that after the steward who took your bag placed it on the elevator, another steward unloaded it into a bin, & then two or three more people handled your luggage & put them either in the terminal or onto another conveyor belt to be sent to an different destination such as a hotel, or an airport, where they might end up in "lost & found" at the hotel or an airport..

 

Sometimes people forget & leave tags on their luggage from the time they board their incoming flights & check-in, which could also cause confusion for the Baggage Handlers.. No one knows where your luggage is & iit coulod have been placed in the wrong bin or it's very possible that someone in Rome walked off with your two bags, thinking they were theirs.. We've seen that happen on flights numerous times..

 

I realize insurance usually does not cover cash but in this case insurance would cover most of your losses.. However, it sometimes takes weeks for lost luggage to be discovered, & insurance will pay when all parties declare it missing..

 

Hopefully, both pieces of luggage might still be found, but suggest in the future you purchase insurance..

 

Thank you for your comment but I would direct you to post #44. This was not the huge port in Civitavecchia for Rome. This was in the tiny port of Ijmuiden.

 

HAL was offering three types of transportation. Transfer direct to Schipol airport. Transfer to one centrally located Amsterdam hotel. Shuttle service to the local train station. After being the last people to leave the very empty terminal building in Ijmuiden we went directly to Schipol airport and made contact with the HAL representatives there. They were in direct contact with the ship and the shuttle services. Our bags did not come to the airport or go to the downtown hotel location. They checked. We stayed in contact with them until they were done for the day. All arriving and departing HAL passengers had been accounted for. We then went and finished checking in for our flight.

 

Even if all of the above scenario you painted were true. It is statistically and logistically unfathomable that the only two suitcases to disappear came from the same cabin. Impossible I say and hence why I don't believe our suitcases came off this ship with all the other luggage in Ijmuiden.

 

Which is why I believe the cruise line bears some responsibility for this. Whether it was an intentional or unintentional action of their crew does not matter, they should still be responsible for what the crew members do and do not do. Financial matters aside. They should be checking into what happened and how it could happen. If for no other reason than to correct the problem.

 

Hypothesising here and not accusing-- but if it were a deliberate action does it make it okay because hey the passenger can just claim it on their insurance?

 

 

Rochelle

[serendipity1499]

No one knows where your luggage is & iit coulod have been placed in the wrong bin or it's very possible that someone in Rome walked off with your two bags, thinking they were theirs.. We've seen that happen on flights numerous times..

 

Sorry the above paragraph in my post can't be corrected, but I meant to say someone in the Netherlands could have walked off with your two bags, thinking they were theirs or they are in some lost & found area which may be

in an airport or a hotel..

 

BTW don't know if anyone has ever been to the "unclaimed Baggage Center" in Scottsboro,Ala..

 

It takes 90 days to declare baggage lost on the airlines..These people buy that luggage after 90 days..The process more than a million pieces a year..

 

This is an article in Travel & Leisure about this warehouse..

 

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/how-to-buy-lost-luggage-bargains

 

Another article from msn money: http://money.msn.com/family-money/where-your-lost-luggage-goes

 

I've been told this warehouse is huge!..Have no idea where lost luggage from cruises goes..

Edited July 8, 2014 by serendipity1499

[rochelle_s]

 

Personally I would have told that family of five to leave while I continued with the luggage problem. Then I would have taken a taxi. Extra time might not have helped, but it might have.

Did the family of 5 book a van? Is that why you were going with them?

 

I had met the mother of the family of five on the roll call and we had been emailing back and forth prior to the cruise. We spoke of sharing the transportation and I booked a taxi van for us prior to leaving home. Both parties were interested in sharing the cost. A taxi from Ijmuiden to Schipol cost 100 euros.

 

If we had sent them on ahead I would have definitely felt obligated to pay them our share. The wait time was not extraordinary, but I did feel guilty for slowing them down. My focus at the time though was locating our bags.

 

The Prinsendam is a small ship and it does not take that long to get everyone off and on their way. Extra time would not have helped as we were the last people in the terminal building. There was no where else there to look. Please see the pictures I posted earlier-- this is a very small facility-- you could not get lost if you tried.

 

 

Rochelle

[navybankerteacher]

[quote=rochelle_s;43326653

 

Even if all of the above scenario you painted were true. It is statistically and logistically unfathomable that the only two suitcases to disappear came from the same cabin. Impossible I say and hence why I don't believe our suitcases came off this ship with all the other luggage in Ijmuiden.

 

 

Rochelle

 

The fact that the two bags in question were handled in the same unusual fashion: being handed to stewards in the elevator lobby rather than left in the corridor, makes their joint disappearance statistically and logically very possible.

 

This, of course, does not justify HAL's unacceptably unco-operative attitude - nor does it make you responsible in any way for their loss, but it does explain the anomaly.

 

Pure speculation, but it could very well be that the bags are still on the ship, having been somehow mishandled. It may be worth you writing to HAL suggesting that they pursue a search. If there have not been too many debarkations since their loss, they may yet appear in some other terminal.

[rochelle_s]

This I agree with.

It is not hard to have contents of a 28" suitcase add up to $4,000.

It doesn't have to be designer labels on garments but when you have leather shoes, a few handbags including an evening purse, three formal night outfits, a leather belt etc I don't think it outrageous you had contents totaling $4,000.

 

I hope your bags turn up.

 

 

Thank you. Nothing would make us happier than getting our bags back as well.

 

Yes you are right those items do add up very quickly. We were being very realistic about the content costs when we made out our itemized lists. We do wonder why they had us do it in the first place. As per their letter I quoted earlier;

 

"If, however, you do not have any sort of travel protection we ask that you provide an itemized list of the belongings with brand and purchase price along with the brand, purchase price, and year purchased of your suitcase. If you happen to have receipts for any of the items those would be greatly appreciated.

 

... We look forward to resolving this situation with you."

 

Why did they have us do this, if in fact their policy is not to cover the contents? On the HAL lost luggage form we filled out in the terminal building. it asks the size, make and purchase price of your suitcase. If all they had any intention of paying was $100 then why not just pay that towards the purchase price of the lost bag and be done with it. Why have us go through all the rest?

 

 

Rochelle

[rochelle_s]

Pure speculation, but it could very well be that the bags are still on the ship, having been somehow mishandled. It may be worth you writing to HAL suggesting that they pursue a search. If there have not been too many debarkations since their loss, they may yet appear in some other terminal.

 

When I spoke with Guest Relations yesterday they were sending the matter back to the security on the ship. She said she hoped she would have a response from them by Thursday. The Prinsendam's shortest itinerary is 14 days so there can only be a few debarkations since ours.

 

Thanks for the idea about where me might be able to look. Never thought of following through on future sailings.

 

 

Rochelle

[igraf]

It is difficult for me to have any sympathy for someone losing money in a casino, let alone understand why anyone would consider that to be a form of entertainment. Worst of all are the mindless slot machines.

 

The casino is there to separate you from your money. Plain and simple. The drinks and glitz are there only to encourage you to lose more money with the usual rationalizations that you were treated well while being fleeced.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

......

 

The casino was also the 'tightest' casino I have ever been in in my life. First off at the "Casino Night' party, which is customary at the start of every cruise there was nothing offered to the guests that attended other than a raffle ticket. No glass of champagne, no rum punch. Hello this is the casino, a guaranteed money making venue and you can't pass out a simple beverage on the night of your party?-- Very sad.

 

I do not play the tables. I play the slots. I am not looking to get rich. I know the house has a huge advantage and chances are very good I will lose money. But still I play. I play because I like it for the entertainment value. But these were far and away the worst slot machines I have ever played in my life. The small group of regulars in the casino nightly all commented on it. I said something to the manager myself on the last night. I told him from having been in the casino almost every night and speaking with others that in the 14 days I had been onboard there had not been a single jackpot won in the casino. His response; "There was on the last cruise". Seriously?? I would hope so..the last cruise was 37 days long!!! At some point in a 14 day cruise a jackpot should be won. It did not have to be me ...but somebody!!

 

......

 

 

Rochelle[/color]

[Windsailer]

I would post a brief message on FaceBook about the lost luggage, and send a lengthy, descriptive email to the following (from the HAL website):

"Ombudsman

E-mail: Ombudsman@HollandAmerica.com

Inquiries and issues that have not been resolved through normal channels."

[LMaxwell]

OP, not sure why you keep asking why this, why that, why, why, why. Are you genuinely expecting answers to these questions, as if someone could give you 100% concrete definitive answers? Would it even really matter if you ever found out the whole story? What difference would it make?

 

The bottom line is unfortunate things happen. Without insurance, you are on the hook. With insurance, you get money back to replace the lost items. COULD the bags still turn up? Yes.

Do I hope for your sake they do? Yes.

Is it LIKELY? No.

Is it HAL's responsibility? No.

Did you deserve to lose luggage? No, of course not.

Should you have purchased insurance? Yes.

Should you have photo documentation of your luggage? Yes.

Do I believe you are trying to gain a sympathetic position from this forum to cajole HAL into special dispensation? Yes.

Do I think you deserve that? No.

C'est la vie.

[peaches from georgia]

What a mess and I certainly understand your frustration. I agree that it is beyond the bounds of coincidence that both bags from one cabin are missing and agree they never made it to the terminal.

 

One question. I just reread the entire thread and didn't see this answered specifically- when you gave your 2 bags to the cabin steward(s) in the elevator lobby, were they added to a pile of other luggage in the lobby that had already been collected from the hallways by the stewards or were yours the only 2 bags in the lobby at that time? I think this is important. If yours were the only 2 bags with these stewards in the elevator lobby somehow starting right then they never made it to the luggage bins where all the luggage is taken to go to the terminal. If they were added to a pile of a lot of other luggage right there in the elevator lobby when you handed the 2 bags to the steward it is beyond belief that by coincidence your 2 bags were the only ones that didn't make it to the terminal.

[sapper1]

This I agree with.

It is not hard to have contents of a 28" suitcase add up to $4,000.

It doesn't have to be designer labels on garments but when you have leather shoes, a few handbags including an evening purse, three formal night outfits, a leather belt etc I don't think it outrageous you had contents totaling $4,000.

 

I hope your bags turn up.

 

 

You are quite right. It is very easy to have a value of over $4000 per case.

If my husband packs a Hugo Boss suit and I pack a Burberry cocktail dress and a pair of Ferragamo heels in the same bag, we are already at $2500. It would be a disaster to permanently lose a bag.

[Hlitner]

OP, not sure why you keep asking why this, why that, why, why, why. Are you genuinely expecting answers to these questions, as if someone could give you 100% concrete definitive answers? Would it even really matter if you ever found out the whole story? What difference would it make?

 

The bottom line is unfortunate things happen. Without insurance, you are on the hook. With insurance, you get money back to replace the lost items. COULD the bags still turn up? Yes.

Do I hope for your sake they do? Yes.

Is it LIKELY? No.

Is it HAL's responsibility? No.

Did you deserve to lose luggage? No, of course not.

Should you have purchased insurance? Yes.

Should you have photo documentation of your luggage? Yes.

Do I believe you are trying to gain a sympathetic position from this forum to cajole HAL into special dispensation? Yes.

Do I think you deserve that? No.

C'est la vie.

 

While we agree with most of what you say, there is one strong area of disagreement. This is certain HAL's responsibility as they have an obligation to reasonably protect the belongings of passengers once they have taken those items under their control. We are aware that the cruise lines write their passenger contracts with enough fine print to absolve themselves of any and all responsibility for anything! But they cannot totally absolve themselves of their "conveyance" responsibility which requires them to use a reasonable level of care in getting the luggage from the passenger to the port. Bottom line is these folks handed their luggage over to HAL, and HAL failed to deliver (or protect) the luggage.

 

Hank

[Laminator]

 

 

I mentioned the VIP visitors to the ship that day. Even some of the higher ups were not privy to exactly who that might be. Speculation was that they could be from the royal family. We watched the pier from the lido deck while waiting for our colour to be called and there was a very large security presence visible. I am not talking your local security guards I am talking about suit and tie secret service type security details and their shiny black vehicles. Security was tight! No one, either passenger or dock personnel were running willy nilly scooping up suitcases.

 

Rochelle

 

At most if they were VIP members where extra security would be required a bomb sniffing dog would have been utilized. Since returning pax would have no idea of the VIP presence the chances of security personnel being over vigilant with bags coming off the ship are not that great. Plus I highly doubt they checked what is leaving the terminal. And I am quite sure they did not check the pax versus the luggage or you would still be disembarking. More likely their vigilance would have been with what is arriving.

 

It is possible that pax with a large amount of luggage used a porter who collected a few too many pieces without the pax knowledge. I have seen pax with 20 bags leaving longer cruises and I am sure there are several CC members who have seen pax with many more bags.

 

I am one who has never purchased insurance for a cruise. I would never consider purchasing luggage insurance and that was before I had a credit card that covered lost luggage. All important items are with me in carry-ons.

 

My DW would be jumping for joy as she could then go shopping for new clothes which she pretty much does for every cruise anyway. UGH!

[LMaxwell]

While we agree with most of what you say, there is one strong area of disagreement. This is certain HAL's responsibility as they have an obligation to reasonably protect the belongings of passengers once they have taken those items under their control. We are aware that the cruise lines write their passenger contracts with enough fine print to absolve themselves of any and all responsibility for anything! But they cannot totally absolve themselves of their "conveyance" responsibility which requires them to use a reasonable level of care in getting the luggage from the passenger to the port. Bottom line is these folks handed their luggage over to HAL, and HAL failed to deliver (or protect) the luggage.

 

Hank

 

*IF* the luggage turns up on the ship, I agree with you. However, if the luggage were deposited at the pier with everyone else's luggage, I do not see how it can remain within the responsibility of HAL.

 

Of course there is a reasonable expectation that the luggage be put on and off the ship. If HAL had failed in that regard, they are responsible. I think it would be difficult to prove HAL did not handle the luggage properly, unless, of course the missing luggage turns up to still be on the ship.

 

To the OP; was your luggage properly tagged with your contact information? I would have to believe that IF it were on the ship after 6 weeks you would have been contacted by HAL personnel.

[midwest 852]

No one knows where your luggage is & iit coulod have been placed in the wrong bin or it's very possible that someone in Rome walked off with your two bags, thinking they were theirs.. We've seen that happen on flights numerous times..

 

Sorry the above paragraph in my post can't be corrected, but I meant to say someone in the Netherlands could have walked off with your two bags, thinking they were theirs or they are in some lost & found area which may be

in an airport or a hotel..

 

BTW don't know if anyone has ever been to the "unclaimed Baggage Center" in Scottsboro,Ala..

 

It takes 90 days to declare baggage lost on the airlines..These people buy that luggage after 90 days..The process more than a million pieces a year..

 

 

 

 

Well if someone walked off with the wrong luggage by mistake then theirs would be sitting there unclaimed! So that did not happen.

I feel bad for the OP 1st that her bags are gone, 2nd because of all those posters that imply it's her fault.

[donaldsc]

What a mess and I certainly understand your frustration. I agree that it is beyond the bounds of coincidence that both bags from one cabin are missing and agree they never made it to the terminal.

 

One question. I just reread the entire thread and didn't see this answered specifically- when you gave your 2 bags to the cabin steward(s) in the elevator lobby, were they added to a pile of other luggage in the lobby that had already been collected from the hallways by the stewards or were yours the only 2 bags in the lobby at that time? I think this is important. If yours were the only 2 bags with these stewards in the elevator lobby somehow starting right then they never made it to the luggage bins where all the luggage is taken to go to the terminal. If they were added to a pile of a lot of other luggage right there in the elevator lobby when you handed the 2 bags to the steward it is beyond belief that by coincidence your 2 bags were the only ones that didn't make it to the terminal.

 

You have my sympathy for having read the entire thread. I gave up halfway through the OP's initial post.

 

You have hit the nail on the head. The system on the ship is set up to handle luggage put outside the stateroom at the proper time so that it can be picked up and put into bins. The system works very well in almost all cases.

 

The OP for some reason did not do this but handed it off directly to a steward in a non-standard location.

 

At this point, the system became broken and all bets are off. Perhaps the steward should not have taken the luggage - this is a different issue. However, the fault is basically with the OP with not following the luggage handling system.

 

DON

[sppunk]

I may have missed this, but have you been in contact with the port itself? I would bet a decent sum of money on this issue being a port one and not a HAL one. I don't believe your bag is sitting on the ship - they need space and clean that out completely.

 

My guess:

A) Your bag is in the ocean - I've seen this happen before, once in Boston and once in Colombia.

B) Your bag was stolen, either on purpose or inadvertently. This could be by a cruiser or a port employee.

C) Your bag is sitting somewhere - maybe in a lost and found - at the port itself. It's been a while now and likely abandoned property so chances of getting it back IMO or slim to none.

[eandj]

This is one reason we don't like to check our bags EARLY and then go off to explore the port city like some cruisers do before checkin begins. There is so much movement of bags early that things can happen. I read here that one couple's bags left on another ship. Even with ship tags. Now how does that happen?

 

No answers for bad stuff. I'd sure be upset. And I'd be working all the angles to get the bags or compensation. Hurray for travel insur. DO check your credit card coverage. MANY do cover lost bags.

Edited July 8, 2014 by eandj

[rochelle_s]

 

At most if they were VIP members where extra security would be required a bomb sniffing dog would have been utilized. Since returning pax would have no idea of the VIP presence the chances of security personnel being over vigilant with bags coming off the ship are not that great. Plus I highly doubt they checked what is leaving the terminal. And I am quite sure they did not check the pax versus the luggage or you would still be disembarking. More likely their vigilance would have been with what is arriving.

...

It is possible that pax with a large amount of luggage used a porter who collected a few too many pieces without the pax knowledge. I have seen pax with 20 bags leaving longer cruises and I am sure there are several CC members who have seen pax with many more bags.

 

. UGH!

 

As to the security. yes there were dogs present. I saw two with their handlers. What their exact role was I could not tell you. I agree that the extra security did not seem to be interested in the passengers at all. My point was just that security was heightened in the area. That combined with the remote location makes it next to impossible for some stranger to walk up and make off with two suitcases.

 

We saw only a couple of the large carts for luggage. There were two in use for the luggage being shipped from the Grand Voyage passengers, which we checked three times for ours bags. Then there was one that had the incoming crews luggage on it. This was brought from another area for us to check just in case. No luck with these larger carts.

 

There were maybe three porters working. They had hand held dollies and not big racks of luggage. Even if they were over zealous how did they manage to scoop two extra bags and those two bags be from the same cabin?

 

 

Rochelle

[LindaM]

I am so paranoid about lost luggage. I can never relax until I see it in our cabin. We have our luggage labeled with ugly yellow tape. We also use typical luggage tags AND large yellow tags that have our itinerary enclosed.

 

I do not pack anything of value. I usually bring a tiny Gucci bag IN MY CARRYON. I have a lovely handmade crocheted sweater from Cyprus IN MY CARRYON. It would make me sick to have my suitcase lost or stolen, but I would never put anything expensive in it. We had a suitcase fall off a luggage cart once. If I wouldn't have been so insistent about having someone look for it in back, who knows what would have happened?? I won't even wear my good Burberry where I have to leave it in an open coatroom!!

 

Last question. I didn't see this one here, although I could have missed it. Does your luggage look expensive? I can never figure out why people use LV---to me it would be a target!

 

Prinsendam is known for not having a good casino. No sympathy there. The entertainment is can be iffy, as well. We don't sail her for those reasons. And, HAL isn't responsible. It is spelled out.

 

If your luggage was labeled and NOT LV, it should turn up in time.